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jywu
2006-02-17, 23:21
Hi,

I got my sb3 yesterday but still at the stage of setting up network at this time. I have browse through help docs and thought this would be a nice to seek advises.

Here's what I have done.
1. The SB3 has passed WEP
2. It automaticed allocated itself an IP
3. I entered the IP of my computer based on the info my from my ISP's (bell sympatico - Ontario, Canada) software.
4. I have checked the firewall section and make sure slimserver's ports are on the exception list.
5. I also disabled the firewall program provided by my ISP

Can anyone advise me which step I might have done wrong and what else I can do. I highly appreciate that.


Jen

danco
2006-02-18, 01:31
More info would help.

What address did the SB get? If it's connecting ok, the address will probable be in the 192.168 range. If it is 169..., then this is a fallback address used when it can't get an address properly using DHCP.

Again, it sounds to me as if the address of your computer is wrong, that you are using an external address rather than the one on the local network.

Can you connect when WEP is switched off? It is worth trying that for a while.

I use a Mac, not Windows, but there have been some threads that the firewall ZoneAlarm needs to be uninstalled (and can be reinstalled later), not just disabled.

I would suspect firewall issues, but can't say how to deal with them.

ceejay
2006-02-18, 01:45
A few other things to check:

- first check that slimserver is running and is accessible from your own computer. Open up a browser and point it to http://localhost:9000

- secondly, you shouldn't need to enter the IP address of slimserver, the SB will look for one on the network, so it may that you don't have a good DHCP connection (as per danco's suggestion) or that you have a firewall in the way.

- if you do have to enter an IP address, make sure its the right one: this should NOT be the IP address that's visible to your ISP, but should be the local LAN IP address (typically 192.168....) handed out by your router. From a windows command prompt you can type "ipconfig" and it will tell you its local IP address.

- it might also be helpful to let us know how this is all connected up and what router you have.

HTH
Ceejay

scottmcmullan
2006-02-18, 12:11
I've got a similar problem.

After opening up the ports on my McAfee firewall in an attempt to connect to my server, also without luck, I decided to connect to the SqueezeNetwork.

Seems to be the simplest way to verify your squeezebox has a valid IP and is connected to the net. (That said, I'm still trying to get mine to connect... :()

jywu
2006-02-18, 14:29
Here's what happened after passing WEP

- I choose obtain IP address (DHCP)automatically (result: 199.254.41.90). I notice both gateway and DNS numbers are all 0s

-Select Music source: Here's option I got
1) Specify an IP address for your slimserver (I used a 192.168.2.12)with in DHCP range --> this seu of IP is provided by my ISP's program. Result: it did not work
2) Connect to squeeze network: Did not work, either

My modem/router model and # is: speedstream 6520, and my ISP is Bell sympatico in Ontario, Canada

Ok, two more newbie questions here

a. As to the the "ipconfig" commend, I am not sure if that is me or my computer, the problem is that I can only see a black like screen come a go like a flash. Is there any other way?

b. How do I turn wep off?

Many many thanks.

danco
2006-02-18, 16:36
It may need someone who knows that specific router to tell you how to turn WEP off.

But if you turned it on initially (as I assume you did) you should be able to turn it off by much the same method.

And, generally speaking, router configuration will be done either via the Web browser (point it at http://192.168.1.1, most likely) or by a specific program supplied with the router.

Isn't there any information about all this supplied with your router?

ceejay
2006-02-18, 16:57
1) Specify an IP address for your slimserver (I used a 192.168.2.12)with in DHCP range --> this seu of IP is provided by my ISP's program. Result: it did not work


This sounds as if you made up this address to type in at this point? If so, this is wrong. You should be entering the IP address that your slimserver address already has. Which brings us to...



a. As to the the "ipconfig" commend, I am not sure if that is me or my computer, the problem is that I can only see a black like screen come a go like a flash. Is there any other way?


This sounds like you are running it from the START - Run box... Much better if you find "Command Prompt" (probably in Start - Programs - Accessories) which will give you a permanent "black box" in which you can type "ipconfig" and all manner of other DOS commands...

HTH

Ceejay

jywu
2006-02-18, 18:33
Hi,

Thanks for helping. The IP I post earlier was provided by the software from Bell Canada. From the command prompt window, here is what I see..
---
IP Adress: ..... 192.168.2.12
Subnet mask: ....255.255.255.0
Default Gateway: 192.168.2.1
---
As to the modem/router. Here is a comment from a user that I came across from Google,

"No way off turning off firewall on this router. Ports only being able to be opened by one computer......Tried numerous time to DEMILITARIZE other computer and still this computer isn't able to act as a host computer on any gaming site..."

I am not sure if this is related, I hope not.

Still appreciate all the kind and prompt support.

Cheers,

Jen.

davep
2006-02-18, 19:03
Hi,

From the command prompt window, here is what I see..
---
IP Adress: ..... 192.168.2.12
Subnet mask: ....255.255.255.0
Default Gateway: 192.168.2.1
---

Assuming that the PC you ran ipconfig on is the same one on which you are running Slimserver then this is the IP address (192.168.2.12) you need to give to the SB when setting it up. The other IP address is that of the point at which you are connecting to the internet and is not related to the local network on which the SB and Slimserver talk to each other.

davep

jywu
2006-02-18, 21:08
Thanks Dave,

I did gave the IP to SB. The problem is that it still could not connect to the slimserver installed on my computer. So I guess the question now is if there's any firewall in my computer that I am not aware of or it could be the router's problem...just guessing. I'll google a bit while waiting for advise from anyone.

Cheers,

J.

Michaelwagner
2006-02-18, 22:03
Ordinarily I would say call the slim support people, but I think they don't work on the weekend.

I don't recognize the particular router you spoke of, but I didn't think sympatico handed out routers, only modems.

I would suggest you start by getting things working without the wireless aspect. Do you have enough cables to wire the SB up and get the rest of it working without the wireless aspect.

No IP that sympatico gave you is relevant to the problem, at least not until you try to do very complex things.

The squeezebox should find the slim server by itself. We need to figure out why that isn't happening before we can get anything else working.

Please tell us what type of computer you're using as the slim server, what operating system it's running. Thanks.

danco
2006-02-19, 03:29
By the way, I'm not clear what you mean when you say that the SB "passed WEP".

And that 199... address (is that what you got, or a misprint on your part?) does suggest a failure to obtain a proper address, which suggests that the SB has not connected to the wireless network and so has not obtained a proper address.

I would again suggest that the problem is with WEP, could even be as simple as a wrong password (an extra trailing space can create havoc and be invisible).

But I think fiddling with the wireless encryption (and begin by turning it off) may be hidden somewhere in your instructions.

jywu
2006-02-19, 09:32
>>passed WEP

I mean that the key I entered allow to connect to my local network wirelessly. The SB showed "setup is complete" and ask me to provide the IP of slimserver. That's when things got stucked.

>>obtain IP address (DHCP)automatically (result: 199.254.41.90)

That's the numbers I got during the setup process after the WEP thingy.


Update
--
I have tried IP forwarding, static IP (not even sure what these two do) but did not work, either.

I have also tried connect to the slimsever installed on my other laptop that wirelessly connect to my LAN.

I wrote to support last thurday afternoon regarding WEP but had no response yet. Maybe I should call them.

To do
--
I'll go find a 4m+ cable
Should I reset my WEP?

My System
--
Windows XP on PC

The Modem/Router
--
Bell Sympatico FAQ 2.4 Speedstream 6520 (simens made)
http://www.dslreports.com/faq/sympat/2.4%20Speedstream%206520

Thanks to guys, I am not giving up yet.

Jen

Michaelwagner
2006-02-19, 10:10
I looked a little on the web for this thing, including the web page you gave.

It seems to be an all in one dsl modem, wireless access point and small number of ports router (I couldn't find a picture or actual specs, so I'm a bit vague on details).

http://forums.speedguide.net/showthread.php?t=178635

In particular, people have reported problems doing anything the least bit unusual with it. It seems to implement it's own firewall, which can't be turned off, and a number of other things.

My advice (and I don't work for Slim, so it doesn't come from them) is to get a 4 port hub or switch and use that to connect your computers to each other and to the SBs. If need be, go out to Staples and buy one there. They're like $50. Forget the internet for now. If that works, then you have eliminated large areas of problem, and cut the problem down to size.

If that works, then the url you gave us tells you how to turn off the internal router and just use it as a modem. Use the upstream port of the 4 port hub to connect to the modem. That will allow you access to the internet and have a functioning home network. Or perhaps in the mean time you'll find out how to "fix" the sympatico supplied modem. But the references I found all complained that the box was too closed to be useful. So I don't know how far you'll get with that.

Oh, I just realized I made a small boo-boo. You need to buy a 4 port router, not a simple switch, if you want the setup to be easier. The difference is, a 4 port router from like Linksys or Netgear or some such, will include DHCP function, which will cut down on the amount of fiddling you need to do with your SB. The SB will work without a DHCP server, but everything goes easier with one.

Michaelwagner
2006-02-19, 10:20
>>obtain IP address (DHCP)automatically (result: 199.254.41.90)

That's the numbers I got during the setup process after the WEP thingy.
As I think someone else pointed out, that's not the expected result.

I don't know what this box does, but it should give out a non-routable ip address (in the range 192.xxx.xxx.xxx). It should not give out 199.anything.

From:

http://www.pku.edu.cn/academic/research/computer-center/tc/html/TC0305.html


There are three blocks of private IP addresses:

10.0.0.0 through 10.255.255.255
172.16.0.0 through 172.31.255.255
192.168.0.0 through 192.168.255.255

For reasons that aren't important here, small home routers usually give out addresses in the third line.

You WANT your router to give out private addresses, because these are visible only inside your home network (and a process called NAT Translation makes your home computers show up on the internet only when they initiate the connection).

If the router in this box is in fact giving out 199.x.x.x addresses and that's not a typo, you want to stay far away from this box for other reasons than merely your SBs. It means your home computers are really and truly directly on the internet and considerably more exposed. That is to say, you want to put a NAT Translating router between yourself and that box.

And shame on Bell if that's the case ....

danco
2006-02-19, 13:16
Well, if you got 199.254.41.90 that's what you got.

The reason I (and others) wondered if it was a typo is that I've never heard of that address. The usual is either

192 ... (when there is a proper connectionto the DHCP server) or

169 ... ( an address self-assined by the SB or othert device when it isn't gett ing a proper DHCP address).

I wondered if the 199 was a confusion between 169 and 192.

jywu
2006-02-19, 20:35
Wow. I am overwhelmed, but thanks a bunch. You guys keep me trying.

Here's the numbers I read from 'view current setting' menu before I run 'setup networking'.
---
Obtain IP address: DHCP
IP: 169.254.23.75 <-- I think I might had a errornous reading earlier, sorry.
Subnet mask: 255.255.0.0
Gateway: 0.0.0.0
DNS server: 0.0.0.0
Slimserver: 192.168.2.12 <-- this is the PC that runs slimserver
Wireless encryption: 128bit WEP
---

Here is the new IP after setup
---
IP:169.254.80.5
The rest are the same
---

So as Danco says: "169 ... ( an address self-assined by the SB or othert device when it isn't gett ing a proper DHCP address)." It looks like what happens with my SP. What does that mean?

I'll try turning the WEP off.

Michaelwagner. My bad reading. I guess the 199 was probably 169. Should I buy a new router still? Or should I switch to Rogers instead?

Jen

jywu
2006-02-19, 20:51
I turned WEP off. And it worked!

Now the new question: but how do I protect my home network from here?

Thanks for helping.

Jen

Mark Lanctot
2006-02-19, 21:20
I turned WEP off. And it worked!

Now the new question: but how do I protect my home network from here?

Thanks for helping.

Jen

Actually WEP isn't much security anyway. You should really use WPA.

But the fact that WEP isn't working means WPA is not likely to either. It's unfortunate, but the SB just doesn't like some routers, and that's one symptom: works in open but not encrypted. Unfortunately the info Michaelwagner dug up does not inspire confidence in the router!

You do not have to switch to Rogers - Bell offers several modems. Obviously you opted for the "home networking" version - for which Bell is no doubt charging you extra! Ask for the regular version, the Efficient Networks SpeedStream 5200, works fine for me. But you will need to get a router, which is the best thing anyway.

One thing to try with WEP/WPA though: it is VERY easy to accidentally type in the wrong passphrase on the SB! Trust me! So try a very simple one to start, say "A" or "1". Look for leading or trailing spaces in the SB. It likes to put in trailing spaces because it thinks that your new passphrase should be the same length as the old one and will put in spaces to make it so. Remove any spaces with the PLAY key (or the ADD key, can't remember which). If you can get WEP or WPA working with a very simple passphrase, you can get it working with any passphrase.

Michaelwagner
2006-02-19, 21:43
Michaelwagner. My bad reading. I guess the 199 was probably 169. Should I buy a new router still?

No. 169.x.x.x addresses are assigned, by convention, when the DHCP server (the guy who hands out addresses and administers conflicts on your local network) can't be reached.

He couldn't be reached because of the WEP problem.

Now that you shut off WEP, it all worked.

But now, as you say, how do you protect your network. Now you have to determine why WEP didn't work. And Marks suggestions are a good place to start.


Or should I switch to Rogers instead?

My personal experience with Rogers has been abysmal (luckily, I no longer live within reach of their grasping hands). So I wouldn't suggest that except as a last resort. The typo made a huge difference in the symptoms we understand you are having.

Try to get WEP working first, as Mark suggests. If that fails, again as Mark said, try to swap out the modem for a simpler one plus your own router.

To do this, go to the routers that work list
http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.cgi?RouterStatus
print it out if necessary, go to your local electronics store with the list and find out that fits your need and budget and claims to work.

Hope this helps.

danco
2006-02-20, 01:09
One thing to try with WEP/WPA though: it is VERY easy to accidentally type in the wrong passphrase on the SB! Trust me! So try a very simple one to start, say "A" or "1". Look for leading or trailing spaces in the SB. It likes to put in trailing spaces because it thinks that your new passphrase should be the same length as the old one and will put in spaces to make it so. Remove any spaces with the PLAY key (or the ADD key, can't remember which). If you can get WEP or WPA working with a very simple passphrase, you can get it working with any passphrase.

Makes me wonder if it is time to request a feature. Namely that trailing spaces show up on the screen.

I'm not sure how practical that is, but maybe the nspace could be replaced by a non-alphanumeric character.

Michaelwagner
2006-02-20, 06:09
Makes me wonder if it is time to request a feature. Namely that trailing spaces show up on the screen.
Sounds like a good idea.

Do you know how to fill out an enhancement request?

Mark Lanctot
2006-02-20, 06:29
Yes, that is a great idea!

Currently the only way to tell is if there's empty space between your last passphrase character and the right-pointing arrow. It does not indicate how many spaces there are, just that there are spaces.

jywu
2006-02-20, 07:45
These will be interesting work to do
- Get a steady regular modem from Bell
- Get a router from the 'working' list

About the not-always-staying-on situation that I currently have:

Last night after my first successful trial, my SB stayed on for quite a while until I try to add a laptop by going back to network setup. How I get it work is instead of haveing it find IP automatically via DHCP server. I put in as many as I can read from ipconfig in my computer. That worked fine, I could see the laptop joining in.

This morning, after playing just one song from the library, I went out for errands. After I came back, the SB cannot connect to the server again. I have not find a way to put it back on yet since the right arrow button on the remote is not helping.

Maybe I really should find a new modem and router fast, right?

Have a good Monday.


Jen

Michaelwagner
2006-02-20, 08:01
This morning, after playing just one song from the library, I went out for errands. After I came back, the SB cannot connect to the server again. I have not find a way to put it back on yet since the right arrow button on the remote is not helping.
I don't know why your SB got disconnected, but sometimes it will reconnect more easily if you reboot it. Hold down the power button on the remote for about 15 seconds (until it says "SLIM DEVICES"). Then go through setup with your right arrow key (4 times if I remember correctly).

Mark Lanctot
2006-02-20, 08:32
About the not-always-staying-on situation that I currently have:

Last night after my first successful trial, my SB stayed on for quite a while until I try to add a laptop by going back to network setup. How I get it work is instead of haveing it find IP automatically via DHCP server. I put in as many as I can read from ipconfig in my computer. That worked fine, I could see the laptop joining in.

This morning, after playing just one song from the library, I went out for errands. After I came back, the SB cannot connect to the server again. I have not find a way to put it back on yet since the right arrow button on the remote is not helping.


Perhaps a word or two about what ipconfig tells you will help.

Attached is a copy of my ipconfig /all. The "/all" part gives you a bit more info. Certain data have been changed to protect the innocent.:)

What's most important are the last 4 lines. The IP address is the IP address of the machine where you type in this command. If this is your SlimServer machine, this is the IP address you'll enter when you want to connect to SlimServer. You may also see the SlimServer computer name, which is the first line "Host Name".

Ignore the Subnet Mask for now, but you'll need to enter the default gateway into your Squeezebox. This will almost always be the IP address of your router. By default, it's usually 192.168.1.1, I've played around with mine. You will also need to enter your DNS Server into the Squeezebox. This can be a bit tricky. On mine, I'm using my DSL modem (note it's 192.168.2.1 instead of 192.168.1.1, there's a difference). You could use the IP address of your modem/router if it's set up that way. You could also use an external IP address, which you can obtain by looking at what your modem/router is using as a DNS Server.

The reason I mention this is because as you make these network changes you may have to do this to all your computers. DHCP may be moving things around on you as you make changes. That may have been why your SB disconnected - your SlimServer IP address changed. This is why I go with static IP addresses. They never change. The only thing is, you have to be aware what's what and how to set it, plus you have to make sure that everything has its own address. You know how to set this in your Squeezebox. To set it in a computer go to Start - Settings - Control Panel - Network Connections - Local Area Connection - Properties - General - "This connection uses the following items:" - Internet Protocol (TCP/IP) - Properties. If you select "Obtain IP address automatically", you're using DHCP. To use a static IP, enter it into the "Use the following IP address" section.

My network is static like so:

192.168.2.1 DSL modem. I suppose I could have put this in the 192.168.1.x range but I kept it at default.
192.168.1.1 reserved - I was using a ClarkConnect (http://www.clarkconnect.com/) server/firewall at this address. I may do so again and I may install SlimServer on the ClarkConnect box.
192.168.1.2 my Linksys WRT54G router.
192.168.1.3 my main PC. Runs SlimServer.
192.168.1.4 my laptop wireless card.
192.168.1.5 my laptop wired connection.
192.168.1.6 my Squeezebox2.
192.168.1.7 my Squeezebox3.

danco
2006-02-20, 09:24
Sounds like a good idea.

Do you know how to fill out an enhancement request?

I could probably work it out for myself, but instructions from someone else would make things easier.

Mark Lanctot
2006-02-20, 09:41
I could probably work it out for myself, but instructions from someone else would make things easier.

Ah, it's already in the system:

http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2695

It's filed under Squeezebox (i.e. Squeezebox1), not Squeezebox2/3 though. I tried to change it but couldn't.

Still, you should vote for it. To do so, create a bugs.slimdevices.com account.