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dborn
2006-01-31, 16:37
Hi, I've read many threads and have had my share of tagging questions concerning slimserver. It would be very useful to have documentation on the subject of what tags should be used and how, in order to use all the great features in slimserver.

Maybe it's just me but I can't get most of the "special" features of slimserver to work (such as compilation albums, multiple-disc albums, etc.)

I use Mp3tag and have many tags (such as performer, composer, disc, discc, language) so that I can save this info somewhere until I can figure out how this is supposed to work. For the "Various Artists" albums, I finally gave up trying and just set Artist to "Various Artists" and put the individual artists in the "Performer" tag.

As a software developper, I know how boring writing documentation is but a "quick reference" would be nice... ;-)

Thanks,
Daniel

Michaelwagner
2006-01-31, 17:23
One of the problems is that development in this area moves so quickly, it's hard to document ...

ceejay
2006-02-01, 01:08
A quick look in the wiki suggests that someone (finnie ?) has started to create a page on this subject but as yet it is empty. A case of watch this space, perhaps? http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.cgi?SlimServerSupportedTags

However this page has been blank for a while so I'm not sure if this is being actively worked on or whether its an opportunity for someone else to contribute...

OTOH, this is a potentially huge subject and there are many different ways of using the tags. If the specific points you're interested in are Various Artists and Multi-Disc albums, then perhaps you could just focus on those, though as Michael says this is a changeable area.

Is the real issue here that you can't get Various Artists to work? In which case perhaps the discussion should just focus on that - it seems to work for me... although there have been plenty of other people having trouble, I think.

BTW - if you're keen on using "Performer" you might want to visit and support my enhancement request to have Slimserver use this tag! http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2696

Ceejay

dborn
2006-02-01, 20:34
You got my vote... :-)

I guess I should try a small subset of my music collection with maybe 1 or 2 multi-disc albums and 1 or 2 "various artists" albums. Now it takes too long to go change everything (even if Mp3tag is good) and then rescan the whole database.

Last time I tried to use the multi-disc album, I set the title to the same thing for each disk, numbered all my tracks starting at 1 for each disk and then I used tags "disc" of "discc" to identify the order of the discs. This did not work, I got all of them mixed up with multiple tracks #1, #1, #1, #2, #2, etc...

For the various artists albums, I tried setting the artist field to each individual artist (my albums are organised by folder with names of '%artist% - %album%' I don't remember what it did but it did not work correctly. So I moved the individual artist to the performer field and hard-coded the artist field to "Various Artists".

What I would like to do is to avoid having thousands of artists with albums of 1 song. I would like to have a way to search the "album artist" field and the "song artist (performer)" field. I've been following the classical music thread on tagging and it looks real interesting. My needs are modest though, I'd just like to be able to define in slimserver which fields to search on (such as album, artist, performer, conductor, year, genre, language, etc...)

And about the genre issue, there's got to be a better way to use this... I use separate genres with a ';' in between but I end up with hundreds of genres to the point that it becomes unuseable. I've been searching the allmusic.com site and they use genre and style and a few other descriptors (such as mood IIRC) which would help alot in organising interesting playlists. Also, I've got too many albums listed as "rock", "pop" or "jazz" which seems to be way too general to use and hope that the music I select by genre only goes well together... Ah the dilemma of having too much music to listen to... ;-)

Daniel

JJZolx
2006-02-01, 22:47
Hi, I've read many threads and have had my share of tagging questions concerning slimserver. It would be very useful to have documentation on the subject of what tags should be used and how, in order to use all the great features in slimserver.

Maybe it's just me but I can't get most of the "special" features of slimserver to work (such as compilation albums, multiple-disc albums, etc.)

I use Mp3tag and have many tags (such as performer, composer, disc, discc, language) so that I can save this info somewhere until I can figure out how this is supposed to work. For the "Various Artists" albums, I finally gave up trying and just set Artist to "Various Artists" and put the individual artists in the "Performer" tag.

As a software developper, I know how boring writing documentation is but a "quick reference" would be nice... ;-)
I began putting together some documentaion a while back with the intent of entering it into the wiki. Trouble was... The end behavior is dependent on the combination of a number of server behavior settings with the combination of several different tags and tagging conventions. It got a little too complicated and I was never sure I even understood much of the _intended_ behavior.

My (vorbis) tagging advice for compilations is first and foremost: add a COMPILATION=1 tag to all of the tracks in a compilation album. Next, it may also help to set ALBUMARTIST=Various Artists (note: _not_ the ARTIST tag). I use ARTIST= for all performers.

I was never certain of how the PERFORMER tag is treated by SlimServer. It think it may be equivalent to ARTIST. Then again, it could be treated the same as ALBUMARTIST (which, I believe, is the same as BAND).

dborn
2006-02-03, 08:30
Thanks Jim,

I exclusively use MP3 files and use Mp3tag to maintain the tags. I can create a tag named "compilation" and set it to 1 but will it be recognized by SS? I guess I could go digging in the perl code to try to understand what it does but I would think that some people here (especially the slimserver developers) would know this already.

What's the use of adding all these spiffy features if many (most?) people aren't able to use them!? I can't be the only one here...

I would think that this info should be part of the help files distributed with the slimserver package. I think that the development of slimserver is like a speeding train, it will never stop long enough for the developers to have time to do a full documentation effort on "slimserver" so it would be best to do short bursts of it as things get developed and put in place.

Just a suggestion.

Thanks,
Daniel
P.S. Maybe I should open a bug report on this? (if there isn't one already)

Michaelwagner
2006-02-03, 08:35
There is a tag already for this but I'm at work and don't have the source here. Either someone can step in or else I'll research it over the weekend.

Siduhe
2006-02-03, 08:43
There's a lengthy discussion of compilation behaviour over in the Ripping thread - largely me trying to get my head round a particular type of behaviour by the SB - which may help.

http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=20595

Tag & Rename does a fine job of adding the compilation tag to mp3 (ID3v2) in a way that Slimserver can understand, if you're looking for a quick and easy way to do this to your files or to work out how it is done.

Michaelwagner
2006-02-03, 15:58
There you go. Now I don't have to look it up. Thanks, Siduhe

Philip Meyer
2006-02-16, 14:52
>A quick look in the wiki suggests that someone (finnie ?) has started to
>create a page on this subject but as yet it is empty. A case of watch
>this space, perhaps?
>http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.cgi?SlimServerSupportedTags
>
Sorry, that was me. I created the entry and wrote a load of stuff, only to lose some of it due to problems with the wiki web site. When I tried to recover, I lost it all :(

>However this page has been blank for a while so I'm not sure if this is
>being actively worked on or whether its an opportunity for someone else
>to contribute...
>
I started to write it again in a local text file, but half forgot I was doing it, and was half fed up after the last problem. I'll get back to it one day. And my plugin I'm writing. However, I want to get my SB3 working first ;)

I don't know all the info; I was going to write what I knew and hopefully get some developers to fill in the blanks and correct my errors ;)

Phil

geoffb
2006-02-20, 08:49
On 2/1/06, dborn <dborn.22l1ob (AT) no-mx (DOT) forums.slimdevices.com> wrote:
> I guess I should try a small subset of my music collection with maybe 1
> or 2 multi-disc albums and 1 or 2 "various artists" albums. Now it takes
> too long to go change everything (even if Mp3tag is good) and then
> rescan the whole database.
This makes a big difference - I was struggling with exactly the same
thing you are, a while back, and after several rounds of change tags /
rescan, I got sick of waiting and copied a few folders to a test
location. I included one of each case that I was trying to solve,
i.e. mp3 and flac for one disc, multi disc, various artist and one
artist (8 combinations only - I didn't bother combining various artist
/ multi disc).

> Last time I tried to use the multi-disc album, I set the title to the
> same thing for each disk, numbered all my tracks starting at 1 for each
> disk and then I used tags "disc" of "discc" to identify the order of the
> discs. This did not work, I got all of them mixed up with multiple
> tracks #1, #1, #1, #2, #2, etc...
I have this working how I want it to, mostly. Here's what I do, in
case it helps...

I used MP3Tag, same as you. First thing to check is that you are only
using ID3v2 tags (not ID3v1.1). You've probably already done this,
but if not there's a thread about it here:
http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=17678
The last thing I do before I commit tracks into my main music folder
is check the 'Tags' column in MP3Tag to make sure there is only ID3v2
listed there. And some STILL get through.

I also use the following structure for my folders, which is worth
checking as well, in case SlimServer is guessing at tags for some
reason:
drive:\mp3\artist\album\(tracks)
drive:\mp3\artist\album\disc 1\(tracks)
drive:\mp3\artist\album\disc 2\(tracks)
For various artists:
drive:\mp3\various\album\(tracks)
drive:\mp3\various\album\disc 1\(tracks)

Then, for both MP3 and FLAC, for multi-disc I do this, which works:
Set DISC to the disc number (usually 1 or 2)
Set DISCC to the disc count (usually 2)
This results in the albums showing up under an artist as such:
The Divine (Disc 1 of 2) (1995)
The Divine (Disc 2 of 2) (1995)

For MP3 various artists, I just set the ARTIST tag to the actual
artist, and the system shows the album correctly as a Various Artists
album.

For FLAC various artists, I set the ARTIST tag to the actual artist,
and the BAND and TPE2 tags to the album artist, and again this shows
the album correctly as a Various Artists album. Setting the BAND and
TPE2 tags may not be necessary - I might have only done this to try to
make the album artist show up in the artists list (which it doesn't).

Under Server Settings | Behavior, I have Compilations set to "Group
compilation albums together" and "List albums by band".
Under Group Discs, I have set it to "Treat multi-disc sets as multiple albums".
Of course, you need to do a wipe and rescan after changing all this.

Finally, I'm running a recent SlimServer Version 6.2.2 (6200) on Windows XP SP2.

Hope that helps,
Geoff

dborn
2006-02-20, 20:03
Yes, thanks Geoff.

Doing that little subset allowed me to quickly fix most of my problems. The "disc" and "discc" tags ended up just being "user-entered tags" so the one I had to use was "discnumber" or something similar (the one that gets mapped to TPOS) and that worked.

Now I have my multi-disc sets properly identified and the purely "various artists" also. Now I just need to figure out how to deal with albums by one main artist that have "contributors" for certain songs. Probably setting "album artist/band" (TPE2) set to the main artist and "artist" (TPE1) set to the contributor(s) will do the trick. For those albums, do I need to set all tracks "album artist" = main artist even if certain tracks don't have other contributors? should the artist tag be left blank? (this might confuse other "simpler" players though?)

Daniel

JJZolx
2006-02-20, 20:32
Now I just need to figure out how to deal with albums by one main artist that have "contributors" for certain songs. Probably setting "album artist/band" (TPE2) set to the main artist and "artist" (TPE1) set to the contributor(s) will do the trick. For those albums, do I need to set all tracks "album artist" = main artist even if certain tracks don't have other contributors? should the artist tag be left blank? (this might confuse other "simpler" players though?)
I think that's pretty much what you want to do. Set ALBUMARTIST/BAND/TPE2 identically for all the tracks on the album, even if there are no ARTIST tags. I think SlimServer might get confused otherwise and you could see the album appear more than once in the db.

You might also duplicate the ALBUMARTIST as an ARTIST tag for all tracks on the album. I don't think any harm will come from doing so.

Sometimes, you just have to experiment with a couple albums and retag them and rescan to see what happens.

dean
2006-02-26, 10:32
On Feb 1, 2006, at 12:08 AM, ceejay wrote:

>
> A quick look in the wiki suggests that someone (finnie ?) has
> started to
> create a page on this subject but as yet it is empty. A case of watch
> this space, perhaps?
> http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.cgi?SlimServerSupportedTags
I've updated this page, although I'm sure I've missed a tag or two.
Updates welcome.

Michaelwagner
2006-02-26, 11:00
I added comment about ; separating multiple genres.

I think this semi-colon feature works for several tags, but I don't know which (other than genre).

JJZolx
2006-02-26, 11:16
I added comment about ; separating multiple genres.

I think this semi-colon feature works for several tags, but I don't know which (other than genre).
It's in the server settings. I changed your comment. :)

Does SlimServer support id3v2.4? I thought I'd read something about the library being used only supporting v2.3. Or maybe that was some other software.

Dan Sully
2006-02-26, 11:22
* JJZolx shaped the electrons to say...

>Does SlimServer support id3v2.4? I thought I'd read something about the
>library being used only supporting v2.3. Or maybe that was some other
>software.

Yes - it supports v2.4. And is preferred even, from a Unicode standpoint.

-D
--
<weezyl> $6.66: The Value Meal of the Beast.

Michaelwagner
2006-02-26, 11:30
OK, I can understand why you'd want multiple genres and multiple artists for a track, but why multiple titles?

Is this for, like
"The Shoop Shoop Song (It's in His Kiss)" Cher ?

So it would show up under both if I recoded it as
"The Shoop Shoop Song;It's in His Kiss"

Michaelwagner
2006-02-26, 11:34
BTW, and somewhat OT, but I went to play with the server settings, and played with Group Disks.

Now, it says (but not prominently enough, IMHO)

Changing this setting will start a rescan of your music library.

And sure enough, it did.

But it also stopped playing my current selection *and* wiped out the current playlist (so I couldn't restart it either).

Any idea what happened there? Is that supposed to happen? Should I bug-report it? I'm running some version of 6.2.2. I can obviously document fully if this isn't an intended action. But if it is an intended action, I think it needs to be flagged a little louder on the setting itself.

JJZolx
2006-02-26, 11:44
OK, I can understand why you'd want multiple genres and multiple artists for a track, but why multiple titles?

Is this for, like
"The Shoop Shoop Song (It's in His Kiss)" Cher ?

So it would show up under both if I recoded it as
"The Shoop Shoop Song;It's in His Kiss"
It appears to only apply to album titles. If this is new for 6.5, we should probably also document differences between SlimServer versions to show which are only beta. Beats the hell out of me why this was needed, but I vaguely recall a forum thread about it.

I'm thinking we should drop documentation of any tags that SlimServer does _not_ support. E.g. Lyrics?

Also, do we just document SlimServer's treatment of tags, or should this document common usage. If SlimServer treats v2.2, v2.3 and v2.4 tags identically, there's no reason to separate them, even if 2.4 added some new conventions.

Documentation of Ape tags would be welcome, although I suspect that they may be treated identically to vorbis comments.

Is there any way to get the wiki to accommodate wide tables? It's not going to be very usable once another couple of columns are added.

Michaelwagner
2006-02-26, 11:58
* JJZolx shaped the electrons to say...

>Does SlimServer support id3v2.4? I thought I'd read something about the
>library being used only supporting v2.3. Or maybe that was some other
>software.

Yes - it supports v2.4. And is preferred even, from a Unicode standpoint.
I think the comment Jim is recalling is in the headers for the code to write back tags - it only supports 2.3, IIRC. It isn't used by Slim.

Dan Sully
2006-02-26, 12:05
* JJZolx shaped the electrons to say...

>It appears to only apply to album titles. If this is new for 6.5, we
>should probably also document differences between SlimServer versions
>to show which are only beta. Beats the hell out of me why this was
>needed, but I vaguely recall a forum thread about it.

Yes.. I remember the forum thread.. I resisted the initial usage, but I got
convinced. I'll need to go back and find it.

>I'm thinking we should drop documentation of any tags that SlimServer
>does _not_ support. E.g. Lyrics?

SlimServer does support Lyrics tags - which is why they're on the Wiki.

They show up on the songinfo pages.

>Also, do we just document SlimServer's treatment of tags, or should
>this document common usage. If SlimServer treats v2.2, v2.3 and v2.4
>tags identically, there's no reason to separate them, even if 2.4 added
>some new conventions.

Please feel free to split things up into separate pages. But I'd prefer to
have the version separation there for now.

>Documentation of Ape tags would be welcome, although I suspect that
>they may be treated identically to vorbis comments.

Does anyone actually use APE? And has a convincing argument for why it's
better than FLAC? Saving a few Kbytes per file isn't it.

>Is there any way to get the wiki to accommodate wide tables? It's not
>going to be very usable once another couple of columns are added.

It should just grow as you add columns.

-D
--
You know, for kids.

Michaelwagner
2006-02-26, 12:35
It should just grow as you add columns.
I think the problem is with the editing box shown to you by the wiki when you try to edit the table. *That* doesn't grow, and moreover mangles the right hand side badly for long lines.

Dan Sully
2006-02-26, 12:42
* Michaelwagner shaped the electrons to say...

>Dan Sully Wrote:
>> It should just grow as you add columns.
>I think the problem is with the editing box shown to you by the wiki
>when you try to edit the table. *That* doesn't grow, and moreover
>mangles the right hand side badly for long lines.

Ah, ok. I can make that bigger.

-D
--
<dr.pie> 31336.5: the neighbor of the l33t

JJZolx
2006-02-26, 13:04
SlimServer does support Lyrics tags - which is why they're on the Wiki.
I wasn't aware of this support, but you need to rethink that "is why they're on the Wiki". With folks like myself with only a 1/2 understanding of the inner workings of SlimServer editing the wiki, I'm sure there's at least a little misinformation in there. It eventually gets cleared up, but not always immediately.


>If SlimServer treats v2.2, v2.3 and v2.4
>tags identically, there's no reason to separate them, even if 2.4 added
>some new conventions.

Please feel free to split things up into separate pages. But I'd prefer to
have the version separation there for now.
2.2 is different, but what about 2.3 and 2.4? If a tag new to 2.4 is used in a 2.3 formatted id3 tag, will it be recognized by SlimServer? If so, then there's no need to document them separately.


Does anyone actually use APE? And has a convincing argument for why it's better than FLAC? Saving a few Kbytes per file isn't it.
People use a lot of codecs that are not Flac. I imagine many people with Ape libraries that bought a Squeezebox may have converted them to Flac, but yes, people use Ape.

Can we just assume that any tags appearing in freeform tagging systems are treated identically? This gets back to my taggins system convention vs. SlimServer convention question. If, for instance, a tag normally seen in Ape files were to appear in a vorbis comment, I would assume it will be recognized rather than ignored.

If you find the time, could you add to and correct the info in the table? In particular, can you clarify the use of BAND, PERFORMER, and ALBUMARTIST, whether they're treated as equivalent, or if there's a difference, please note what that might be.


>Is there any way to get the wiki to accommodate wide tables? It's not
>going to be very usable once another couple of columns are added.

It should just grow as you add columns.
It seems to me that the SlimServer.com page layout constrains the width of the table. I think the page layout may also be what screws up the text area input box.

Michaelwagner
2006-02-26, 13:24
2.2 is different, but what about 2.3 and 2.4? If a tag new to 2.4 is used in a 2.3 formatted id3 tag, will it be recognized by SlimServer? If so, then there's no need to document them separately.
The code that reads id3 tags is all in one module.

I suspect, as you do, that if a 2.3 field snuck into a tag that claimed to be 2.4, it wouldn't be thrown out. But that's because all id3 tags are handled together.


Can we just assume that any tags appearing in freeform tagging systems are treated identically?
Nope.

At the very least, different code reads them. Even if the intention were to be the same, they might differ in bugs, maintainance, etc.

The id3 tags are read by mp3 modules, the vorbis tags by vorbis modules, etc.


If, for instance, a tag normally seen in Ape files were to appear in a vorbis comment, I would assume it will be recognized rather than ignored.
I've only read the id3 code, not the others, but I believe your assumption is incorrect.

Michaelwagner
2006-02-26, 13:28
Ah, ok. I can make that bigger.
Dan: I looked at this some more. As soon as you type new text into the request element for the table, the formatting on the right hand side gets all messed up, to the point where there are 4 or 5 character positions where you need to type blind.

Browser is IE 5.5, if that matters.

Michaelwagner
2006-02-26, 13:33
I think the problem is in this element.


<textarea name="page_content" rows="40" cols="120" onfocus="clear_default_content(this)">

As soon as you type inside this box, it wipes out the right hand scroll bar and messes up somehow.

Dan Sully
2006-02-26, 13:53
* JJZolx shaped the electrons to say...

>> have the version separation there for now.
>2.2 is different, but what about 2.3 and 2.4? If a tag new to 2.4 is
>used in a 2.3 formatted id3 tag, will it be recognized by SlimServer?
>If so, then there's no need to document them separately.

I haven't tested it, but it should recognize them.

>Can we just assume that any tags appearing in freeform tagging systems
>are treated identically? This gets back to my taggins system
>convention vs. SlimServer convention question. If, for instance, a tag
>normally seen in Ape files were to appear in a vorbis comment, I would
>assume it will be recognized rather than ignored.

Yes, that is correct. All the freeform tagging systems are the same as FLAC.

>It seems to me that the SlimServer.com page layout constrains the width
>of the table. I think the page layout may also be what screws up the
>text area input box.

Yeah - I need to talk to Dean about that.

Anyone feel like rewriting our mess of header tables to be CSS'd? :)

-D
--
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little
temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin

Robin Bowes
2006-02-26, 16:35
Michaelwagner said the following on 02/26/2006 06:30 PM:
> OK, I can understand why you'd want multiple genres and multiple artists
> for a track, but why multiple titles?
>
> Is this for, like
> "The Shoop Shoop Song (It's in His Kiss)" Cher ?
>
> So it would show up under both if I recoded it as
> "The Shoop Shoop Song;It's in His Kiss"

One pertinent example that springs to mind is alternative titles for
classical works, e.g.:

"The Well-Tempered Klavier;Das Wohltemperierte Clavier;Le Clavier bien
tempere; Il clavicembalo ben temperato"

R.

Michaelwagner
2006-02-26, 17:22
One pertinent example that springs to mind is alternative titles for classical works, e.g.:

"The Well-Tempered Klavier;Das Wohltemperierte Clavier;Le Clavier bien tempere; Il clavicembalo ben temperato"
Ah, thank you, Robin. Sometimes a concrete usage example goes a long way in my thick brain.

dborn
2006-02-26, 21:17
Wow, thanks to everyone for documenting the tags that are used by SlimServer. This will simplify things for many people I'm sure!

Looking at the list of supported tags, most of them are straightforward and self-explanatory, others are a little less clear what they are used for (and how they should be filled).

Such as:
Album sort (TSOA)
Artist sort (TSOP)
Compilation (TCMP)
Title sort (TSOT)

For discnumber (TPOS), I used the following format: "1/2" (meaning disc 1 of 2) even though my collection may only contain that one disc and not the second... This seems to work ok.

Thanks,
Daniel

JJZolx
2006-02-26, 21:50
Wow, thanks to everyone for documenting the tags that are used by SlimServer. This will simplify things for many people I'm sure!

Looking at the list of supported tags, most of them are straightforward and self-explanatory, others are a little less clear what they are used for (and how they should be filled).

Such as:
Album sort (TSOA)
Artist sort (TSOP)
Compilation (TCMP)
Title sort (TSOT)

For discnumber (TPOS), I used the following format: "1/2" (meaning disc 1 of 2) even though my collection may only contain that one disc and not the second... This seems to work ok.
Artist sort and album sort let you force the sort order of lists of artists and albums. The use of title sort isn't as clear to me, but I imagine it becomes important if you either have no track number tags on certain tracks, or if the server needs to display a list of tracks with duplicate track numbers. Otherwise you'd have no means of ordering to the list. These three tags correspond directly to data fields in the SlimServer database for artist, album and track names, so I'm guessing the recognition of a title sort tag is simply included for completeness.

Artist sort is probably the most used of these, with people using lastname/firstname ordering of artist names. For instance, "Frank Sinatra" sorted as "Sinatra, Frank".

Album sort can be used to play games with the way SlimServer sorts albums in certain situations. Prior to v6.5, there was no way to sort albums in the Browse Artwork, so I created ALBUMSORT tags in all of my files to force the sort order to artist/year/album. Now that 6.5 has added the option to select the sort ordering in Browse Artwork I've removed all of these ALBUMSORT tags.

The Compilation tag is used to explicitly tell SlimServer whether an album is or is not a compilation (various artists) album. Normally, an album is marked as a compilation when the server sees different artists on diffrent tracks. Sometimes the server gets it wrong, so you can force the treatment of an album by including this tags. Set the value to '1' for True, '0' for False.

Discnumber is used by SlimServer, but from what I've gathered, the disc count tag may be ignored, and instead SlimServer determines how many discs there are for an album by the maximum value it sees in the Discnumber tags. For ID3v2 tags I believe the N/M convention is the equivalent of using the disc count (DISCC) tag in Flac files, but I'm not sure what (if anything) happens if you were to set DISCC=3 when you only have tracks from Disc1 in the library.

Michaelwagner
2006-02-26, 22:00
While it's a bit tough to plow through, the definitive reference, such as it is, for id3 tags (the ones used in mp3 files) is located here:
http://www.id3.org/develop.html

For the three "sort order" tags, here is the explanation from that web site:


TSOA
The 'Album sort order' frame defines a string which should be used instead of the album name (TALB) for sorting purposes. E.g. an album named "A Soundtrack" might preferably be sorted as "Soundtrack".

TSOP
The 'Performer sort order' frame defines a string which should be used instead of the performer (TPE2) for sorting purposes.

TSOT
The 'Title sort order' frame defines a string which should be used instead of the title (TIT2) for sorting purposes.

The example is a bit lame. A better example, for album title, might be, for the Album called "The Very Best of Ray Charles", you might set TSOA to be "Ray Charles, The Very Best of"

Notice that much extant software will remove "The" from the beginning of Album titles but might be baffled by "Very Best of".

If you like last names first for Artists, you might chose to code TSOP as
"Dylan, Bob" and "Petty, Tom" or even "Petty, Tom & the Heartbreakers".

Again, some software, including SlimServer, can take "The Beatles" and sort it as "Beatles, The", but if you don't know what software might be looking at your tags, or if several different pieces of software (iTunes, jRiver, kMart, etc) might be looking at the tags, it's often best to nail these things down.

smst
2006-02-27, 03:49
on 2006-02-26 18:30 Michaelwagner said the following:
> OK, I can understand why you'd want multiple genres and multiple
> artists for a track, but why multiple titles?
>
> Is this for, like
> "The Shoop Shoop Song (It's in His Kiss)" Cher ?
>
> So it would show up under both if I recoded it as
> "The Shoop Shoop Song;It's in His Kiss"

I'd personally keep the parentheses in that case. I use multiple titles
when a single track from a CD has more than one title. For example:

Pink Floyd - Dark Side Of The Moon - 01:
Speak To Me / Breathe

Brian Wilson - Smile - 05:
Old Master Painter / You Are My Sunshine

Green Day - Bullet In A Bible - 10:
King For A Day / Shout

Basically, anything which would be listed on a CD with a forward-slash
in it. Live albums have a few of these, when bands segue between two
songs but keep them as single tracks on the CD. I have several
soundtracks with multiple titles on some tracks (tends to be original
music rather than compilations of music released elsewhere). And some
studio albums just have more than one title on some tracks.

Obviously one could include the separating slash literally in the title
tag, but I prefer to keep the titles distinct (the ability to do this in
Vorbis tags made me really think about the semantics of one-versus-many
tags when I ripped everything). This is especially important given that
some titles seem to contain slashes as part of a single title (although
it's not always obvious how to tell that it's not multiple titles!).

I remember asking for multiple titles to be supported last year (as I
thought that lack of support was a bug). I believe the need for it
wasn't necessarily immediately understood, but the change was made
nonetheless (by Dean, I think). The responsiveness of SlimDevices
continues to impress!

Cheers,
Steve

--
Steve Tregidgo

slimpy
2006-02-27, 04:35
2.2 is different, but what about 2.3 and 2.4? If a tag new to 2.4 is used in a 2.3 formatted id3 tag, will it be recognized by SlimServer? If so, then there's no need to document them separately.
I use TSOP frames (new as of 2.4) in existing 2.3 tags without any problems.
Slimserver recognises the frames correctly even though it says the tag is version 2.3

-s.

slimpy
2006-02-27, 05:22
While it's a bit tough to plow through, the definitive reference, such as it is, for id3 tags (the ones used in mp3 files) is located here:
http://www.id3.org/develop.html

For the three "sort order" tags, here is the explanation from that web site:


TSOA
The 'Album sort order' frame defines a string which should be used instead of the album name (TALB) for sorting purposes. E.g. an album named "A Soundtrack" might preferably be sorted as "Soundtrack".

TSOP
The 'Performer sort order' frame defines a string which should be used instead of the performer (TPE2) for sorting purposes.

TSOT
The 'Title sort order' frame defines a string which should be used instead of the title (TIT2) for sorting purposes.

If you like last names first for Artists, you might chose to code TSOP as
"Dylan, Bob" and "Petty, Tom" or even "Petty, Tom & the Heartbreakers".

I think the comment on TSOP on id3.org has a little typo that could be somewhat misleading. It states correctly that TSOP should be used instead of the performer string for sorting purposes. But performer is TPE1, not TPE2 (Band).

Not having a sort tag related to TPE2 (Band) is a major flaw. If you include band names (TPE2) in the artist list, there's no way to have them correctly sorted. If you happen to have at least one other album by the same artist as performer (TPE1) with appropriate TSOP tag then there are two possible ways how the artist will be displayed depending on the scan order of the involved albums:
1) If the album with artist e.g. "Horace Silver" as TPE2 gets scanned last by slimserver you will get two artist entries: "Silver, Horace" and "Horace Silver"
2) If any album with artist "Horace Silver" as TPE1 and "Silver, Horace" as TSOP gets scanned last, you will end up with only one entry "Silver, Horace"

Slimserver seems to scan folders in alphabetical order recursive.
So you have to make sure that TPE2 tagged albums are never last alphabetically within one artist's directory (if you follow the artist/album "standard) to avoid 1) above.

If someone knows a better solution I'm eager to know about it.

-s.

JJZolx
2006-02-27, 09:13
Not having a sort tag related to TPE2 (Band) is a major flaw.
There's no reason SlimServer couldn't create some (non-standard) sort tag for BAND/TPE2/ALBUMARTIST.

ALBUMARTISTSORT?

If I'm not mistaken, ID3v2.3/4 permits freeform tags by using its TXXX tag, so it could have the same name in ID3, or some other name could be made up.


If you include band names (TPE2) in the artist list, there's no way to have them correctly sorted. If you happen to have at least one other album by the same artist as performer (TPE1) with appropriate TSOP tag then there are two possible ways how the artist will be displayed depending on the scan order of the involved albums:
1) If the album with artist e.g. "Horace Silver" as TPE2 gets scanned last by slimserver you will get two artist entries: "Silver, Horace" and "Horace Silver"
2) If any album with artist "Horace Silver" as TPE1 and "Silver, Horace" as TSOP gets scanned last, you will end up with only one entry "Silver, Horace"

Slimserver seems to scan folders in alphabetical order recursive.
So you have to make sure that TPE2 tagged albums are never last alphabetically within one artist's directory (if you follow the artist/album "standard) to avoid 1) above.

If someone knows a better solution I'm eager to know about it.
Better solution: Bill Jackson's SortNames plugin. Then sorting of names, not just ARTIST, but _any_ contributor name - bands, orchestras, composers, conductors - can be designated without resorting to esoteric and not-always-agreed-upon tags.

Funny you should mention the "scanned last namesort bug"... I filed a bug report on it just yesterday. Please add your comments regarding how it's also affected by TPE2/BAND tags and _vote_ to have it fixed.

http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=3069

Philip Meyer
2006-03-13, 16:42
>I think the problem is in this element.
>>
>> <textarea name="page_content" rows="40" cols="120"
>> onfocus="clear_default_content(this)">
>
>As soon as you type inside this box, it wipes out the right hand scroll
>bar and messes up somehow.

This was the same problem that I experienced when I tried to write the original wiki page, and ended up losing all of my text.

The best thing to do is to write the wiki page in another text editor and then paste it into the web page textarea control.

Phil

Philip Meyer
2006-03-13, 16:47
>If you find the time, could you add to and correct the info in the
>table? In particular, can you clarify the use of BAND, PERFORMER, and
>ALBUMARTIST, whether they're treated as equivalent, or if there's a
>difference, please note what that might be.
>
Could cue sheet tags be added to the table (or somewhere else in the wiki)?

Also, does SlimServer support multiple Comment tags? I know several tagging clients that allow for multiple comments.

Phil