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View Full Version : Random Mix: Limiting what is played



kweller
2006-01-31, 07:33
I'm not sure how I can achieve this and I suspect it's not possible but
here goes anyway.

My Squeezeboxes are on random mix pretty much full time. That can give
me an issue if music with bad language is played at an inopportune time
such as when children or 'sensitive' people are in the house.

Pre-Squeezebox I was able to resolve this by adding a tag in the
player's database to indicate that the track contained bad language and
telling the player not to include tracks with those tags in the mix. I
extended this somewhat by adding 'Party' and 'Exercise' tags (only play
tracks that have a 'Party'/'Exercise' tag'), and so on.

AFAICS the only way to do this with Slimserver would be if the random
mix plug-in had the ability to exclude tracks based on the presence or
otherwise of a specific string in the ID3 tag's comment field.

That facility obviously doesn't exist so is there another way?

(It just occured to me that if I add pseudo-genres to music (bad
language, party, exercise...) I could exclude them based on genre but
is Slimserver capable of decoding multiple genres in a tag and is the
genre table for random mix populated based on the genres found in tags
or pre-populated based on the 'standard' genres? I'm not sure this
makes sense so I hope it does!)

Kevin

gregklanderman
2006-01-31, 08:43
>>>>> Kevin Weller <SlimDML (AT) TheWellers (DOT) net> writes:

> (It just occured to me that if I add pseudo-genres to music (bad
> language, party, exercise...) I could exclude them based on genre but
> is Slimserver capable of decoding multiple genres in a tag and is the
> genre table for random mix populated based on the genres found in tags
> or pre-populated based on the 'standard' genres? I'm not sure this
> makes sense so I hope it does!)

SS does support multiple, custom genres: you have to set the option to
allow multiple tags and tell it the separator you want to use. Seems
a number of people are using semicolon ";".

I haven't tried Random Mix yet, but judging from threads on this forum
it does not yet support including and excluding genres which is really
needed for this to work right.

It's on my list to fix, and I suspect at least several others' too..

greg

snarlydwarf
2006-01-31, 08:55
If you have the following:

Genre: Rock ; Explicit
Genre: Rock
Genre: Explicit

RandomPlay will let you choose the rock and/or the explicit genres. If you choose rock, the first two tracks will play. If you choose explicit, the last two will.

In other words, it's an "or" of the tags, which may bite you if you use multiple-genres per track (ie, there's no way to make 'Rock' not play the first track at the moment).

As for tags themselves -- it's whatever you can get in the tags. id3v1 for mp3's only has a single byte for genres so only has selections from a list. id3v2 and flac metas allow whatever you want there and do allow multiple genres.

kweller
2006-01-31, 08:56
In article <lou0bk9zdo.fsf (AT) itasoftware (DOT) com>, Greg Klanderman wrote:
> I haven't tried Random Mix yet, but judging from threads on this forum
> it does not yet support including and excluding genres which is really
> needed for this to work right.

Oh yes, you're quite correct of course and I'd forgotten that. The other
player I used had three states for the 'include' flag - include, exclude
and don't care - which resolved the issue.

Kevin

Kyle
2006-01-31, 09:04
FWIW, MusicMagic allows you to exclude albums, artists, tracks, etc., from its mixes. It also allows you to rate tracks via a rating system and exclude certain ratings from the mix. There's a free trial.

kweller
2006-01-31, 09:54
In article <lou0bk9zdo.fsf (AT) itasoftware (DOT) com>, Greg Klanderman wrote:
> SS does support multiple, custom genres: you have to set the option to
> allow multiple tags and tell it the separator you want to use. Seems
> a number of people are using semicolon ";".

Actually, thinking about this some more I'm a bit confused. ID3V2.3
supports multiple genres so shouldn't Slimserver just follow the
standard? (not that there are many programmes around that allow the input
of multiple genres in this way - ID3-TagIT is the only I've come across).

Kevin

snarlydwarf
2006-01-31, 10:20
I think that's the problem -- the standard is null-terminated strings, so if a program doesn't actually support them it may be impossible to fake it.

You may be able to use '\0' as the seperator in slimserver. I haven't tried, but it may very well work... but then you're back to the "how the heck can I generate these" problem...

(It's the same with other multi-value fields in id3 tags... artist, for example, can take multiple null-terminated strings, but very little in the way of taggers supports that.)

Richie
2006-01-31, 10:30
> Actually, thinking about this some more I'm a bit confused. ID3V2.3
> supports multiple genres so shouldn't Slimserver just follow the
> standard? (not that there are many programmes around that allow the input
> of multiple genres in this way - ID3-TagIT is the only I've come across).

Slimserver does read multiple genres in separate tags.

Mp3tag and foobar2000 also allow you to set multiple genres in separate tags.

Richard

snarlydwarf
2006-01-31, 10:48
Slimserver does read multiple genres in separate tags.
For FLAC. yes, but it's misformatted to have multiple TCON frames in an id3 tag.



There may only be one text information frame of its kind in an tag.


(And actually with id3v2.3, the delimiter for multiple tags seems unclear -- at one point in the spec, it says that \0 is reserved as end-of-string and illegal in a field as anything else unless it's specifically stated in the field description as being legal.. and it doesn't say it's legal in the TCON field... nor does it show any terminator at all.)

kweller
2006-01-31, 12:06
In article <snarlydwarf.22ib2b (AT) no-mx (DOT) forums.slimdevices.com>, Snarlydwarf
wrote:
> In other words, it's an "or" of the tags, which may bite you if you use
> multiple-genres per track (ie, there's no way to make 'Rock' not play
> the first track at the moment).

And that's the crux of the issue as I'd like to exclude 'bad language'
when necessary regardless of any other genre.

Kevin

kweller
2006-01-31, 12:06
In article <cf07d8090601310930t709446cbt (AT) mail (DOT) gmail.com>, Richie wrote:
> Slimserver does read multiple genres in separate tags.
>
> Mp3tag and foobar2000 also allow you to set multiple genres in separate tags.

Ah thanks, It sounds like it's worthwhile me pursuing that line in case Random
Mix is ever updated to include exclude (IYSWIM!).

I'll have a look at foobar20000 as I've seen it mentioned elsewhere. I've just
switched to MediaMonkey from dBpowerAMP as it does just about everything I need
and more apart from the multiple genres.

Kevin

Peter van Cooten
2006-01-31, 12:34
Slimserver is perfectly capable of handling multiple genres: check the
"multiple items in tag" in the behaviour settings.

Another question is what happens when you have the genre tag "rap;indecent",
and start a random mix INcluding "rap" and EXcluding "indecent".
I don't know, but I guess it still would be played based on the "rap" tag.

Peter

> (It just occured to me that if I add pseudo-genres to music
> (bad language, party, exercise...) I could exclude them based
> on genre but is Slimserver capable of decoding multiple
> genres in a tag and is the genre table for random mix
> populated based on the genres found in tags or pre-populated
> based on the 'standard' genres? I'm not sure this makes sense
> so I hope it does!)
>
> Kevin
>
>
>
>

dborn
2006-01-31, 16:27
Another question is what happens when you have the genre tag "rap;indecent",
and start a random mix INcluding "rap" and EXcluding "indecent".
I don't know, but I guess it still would be played based on the "rap" tag.

I would think that any EXclude should take precedence over any INclude...

Robin Bowes
2006-01-31, 16:49
dborn said the following on 01/31/2006 11:27 PM:
> Peter van Cooten Wrote:
>
>>Another question is what happens when you have the genre tag
>>"rap;indecent",
>>and start a random mix INcluding "rap" and EXcluding "indecent".
>>I don't know, but I guess it still would be played based on the "rap"
>>tag.
>
>
> I would think that any EXclude should take precedence over any
> INclude...

You would think wrong!

As I recall, there were considerable discussions about how this should
work when Max wrote the plugin, and there have been several discussions
on the lists/forums about this issue, and the bottom line is that the
wording on the web page says:

"Genres to include in your mix:"

So, tick one of the boxes and tracks tagged with that genre get included.

If you've got tracks tagged with multiple genres then the track will be
included if it contains any one of the selected genres.

R.

dborn
2006-02-01, 20:52
So I am wrong to assume that if I have songs with multiple tags such as:

01-song1 genre: rock;grunge
02-song2 genre: rock;light
03-song3 genre: rock;hard
04-song4 genre: pop;light

And I decide to play songs with the following criteria:
include rock, exclude grunge

This would return me songs 2,3 (instead of songs 1,2,3)

This sounds wrong to you?? so how would you make the "exclude" thing work then??

snarlydwarf
2006-02-01, 20:57
And I decide to play songs with the following criteria:
include rock, exclude grunge


It's wrong because it's based on a faulty premise...

There is only "include"

There is no exclude.

It would be nice if there was one, IMHO.

But there isn't.

Robin Bowes
2006-02-02, 03:22
snarlydwarf said the following on 02/02/2006 03:57 AM:
> dborn Wrote:
>
>>And I decide to play songs with the following criteria:
>>include rock, exclude grunge
>>
>
>
> It's wrong because it's based on a faulty premise...
>
> There is only "include"
>
> There is no exclude.
>
> It would be nice if there was one, IMHO.
>
> But there isn't.

What he said.

R.

kweller
2006-02-02, 04:38
In article <lou0bk9zdo.fsf (AT) itasoftware (DOT) com>, Greg Klanderman wrote:
> SS does support multiple, custom genres: you have to set the option to
> allow multiple tags and tell it the separator you want to use. Seems
> a number of people are using semicolon ";".

Aksherly that works rather well and it does what I need in MediaMonkey as
well, thank you.

All we need now is exclude in Random Mix :)

Kevin