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sdwhite
2006-01-24, 13:37
Acquired a SB3 today.
Router - Draytek 2600G firmware 2.5.7 (I have noticed on Wiki that there is supposed to be a bug in 2.5.6).

Wired connection works fine.
WEP works fine IF Draytek is in WEP only mode (not exactly secure).
If you switch to WPA or WPA2 neither of these allow the SB3 to connect to the Draytek regardles of the Draytek being in WEP/WPA, WPA/WPA2 or WPA2 only modes.

I could leave the SB3 in WEP mode and run the home laptop across WPA (that way the data's secure and so what if someone sniffs the music packets as there is still MAC filtering to keep them off the network) BUT in the mixed WEP/WPA mode the WEP key 1 is no longer available only WEP key 2. I am guessing that the SB3 is fixed to using WEP key 1.

Anyone got any suggestions before I package the SB3 up and send it back?

relen
2006-01-24, 15:51
WiFi encryption modes confuse the wotsits out of me, but my understanding is that SBs work under WPA only with TKIP and not AES, and under WPA2 only with AES which is mandatory.

On my own wireless access point (Linksys WAP54GX) running the mixed mode (WPA+WPA2+TKIP+AES) screws everything up and nothing works (except my iBook): no SBs, for sure.

Hope this helps a bit.

--Richard E

MrC
2006-01-24, 17:37
Anyone got any suggestions before I package the SB3 up and send it back?

I'd replace the router before I ditched the SB!

Mark Lanctot
2006-01-24, 17:46
Yeah, you can pick up a Linksys WRT54GL (note I didn't
say WRT54G) which will work perfectly with the SB and
will cost $50.

And with the new wireless technology coming out,
you'll want to change the router in a year anyway.

Plus Slim's products have so far been functional and
useful long after routers from that era are obsolete.

--- MrC <MrC.225zrz (AT) no-mx (DOT) forums.slimdevices.com>
wrote:

>
> sdwhite Wrote:
> > Anyone got any suggestions before I package the
> SB3 up and send it back?
>
> I'd replace the router before I ditched the SB!
>
>
> --
> MrC
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> MrC's Profile:
> http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=468
> View this thread:
> http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=20378
>
>

Michaelwagner
2006-01-24, 18:51
WiFi encryption modes confuse the wotsits out of me

And everyone else on the planet, including, it seems, most of the vendors (which is why it all so very nicely interoperates)



NOT

ilancas
2006-01-25, 07:04
I also have a Draytek 2600G on firmware 2.57UK. My SB3 also refuses to connect to it with WPA TKIP enabled.

As WEP is so useless, I'm just using MAC address filtering for now (hope there are no knowledgeable hackers where I live).

sdwhite
2006-01-25, 10:30
I'd replace the router before I ditched the SB!

3 laptops (all with different network cards/chipsets), 2 iPAQs and a Belkin Wireless Printserver ALL co-existing quite happily on the Draytek router using WPA or WPA2 where they can or defaulting back to 128bit WEP for the older of the two IPAQs.

Also if the issue is the Draytek, how come my laptop which has the Atheros wireless chipset, as does the SB3, works just fine.

Sorry but the odd one out here is the SB3!

MrC
2006-01-25, 13:22
3 laptops (all with different network cards/chipsets), 2 iPAQs and a Belkin Wireless Printserver ALL co-existing quite happily on the Draytek router using WPA or WPA2 where they can or defaulting back to 128bit WEP for the older of the two IPAQs.

Also if the issue is the Draytek, how come my laptop which has the Atheros wireless chipset, as does the SB3, works just fine.

Sorry but the odd one out here is the SB3!

If your goal is to enjoy top-notch streaming music, who cares that other systems connect and the SB3 doesn't. For $50, you can have them all connect. No sense pushing on a rope.

Michaelwagner
2006-01-25, 16:25
Sorry but the odd one out here is the SB3!
The problem is, there are no decent standards for wireless networking beyond the very basic stuff.

You need a PhD in networking and cryptography in order to say anything definitive (and be able to defend it) as to which device is actually malfunctioning.

In the past, in every situation where we were able to track it down on these forums, it was the router, the cheapest, easiest-to-replace component, that was wrong. Hence the advice to replace the router.

If you don't like that answer, you are welcome, of course, as always, to contact support at slimdevices dot com. They have access to better diagnostic information there than we have here.

sdwhite
2006-01-26, 17:24
Thanks for the adice, I had already contacted Slim Devices and yes they are working on new firmware for the SB3 to allow them to connect to a wider variety of wireless networks.

I am have to say I am puzzled by the religous following of the SlimDevice. No interest from the the SB converts in the evidence just convince the those that know no better to shell out more money on a compatible router, not that there are many to pick from.

Sorry boys and girls, I know the SB3 is a cracking audio product, but check out the forums on other woreless device providers. No PhD required in WiFi they just work with most vendors routers UNLIKE the SB3. I am sure it will get there but as an IT professional with 20 years experience putting in major IT systems the verdict can only fall one way.

Bye - I'm off for a refund!

pfurrie
2006-01-26, 19:42
sdwhite,

I understand your frustration. If you haven't sent it back yet, I have a couple of questions:

1) Did you try the wireless with WPA-PSK?
2) If so, are you certain you have the key correct on the SB3?
3) If so, did you try a static IP address, just as a test?

There are problems with some devices obtaining IP addresses via DHCP on wireless routers with WPA turned on (DLink routers come to mind). You certainly want to use WPA if at all possible: WEP isn't secure, and MAC address filtering by itself is also poor.

My suspicion is that the "religious"-ness of users for the SB is due to how well it works, and how well (at least for some) their support has been. But having been in your position in the past, I can empathize. It sounds as though the connectivity of your other network components would indicate issues with the SB3.

If the static IP test works, you might consider leaving it static. Most routers allow for setting the range of DHCP addresses, meaning you can avoid a block of numbers which you can then use for any static assignments, without running the risk of duplicate IPs.

Pat

Michaelwagner
2006-01-26, 21:40
hmmm...my religious feelings can be summarized as follows:
wireless is not ready for prime time yet.

not slim devices, not linksys, not belkin, not smc, not any of them. The standards, where they exist, are not implemented the same way by any 2 manufacturers.

I have 5 squeezeboxes. Only one is wireless, and that's only because I don't own the walls and can't run my own cable through them and so I had no choice. I wouldn't recommend it to anyone who had another alternative. Also, I wanted to get one to see what all the fuss was about. It's the only one of the 5 boxes that regularly misbehaves. I'm lucky if it works for 24 hours at a time. Only one I can't count on.

802.11 is currently where cell phones were in 1992. Kinda works, barely acceptable if you have no other better alternatives. Wait 10 years and they'll get 802.11 working too. Just like they did (eventually) with cell phones.

By the way, cell phones worked properly in Canada long before they did in the US. That's because we had nationally enforced standards as part of our licensing. I'm not advocating that level of government interference, but I'm saying that *some* body, setting standards, is better than random brownian motion, which is kinda where 802.11 is right now.

Not much point in blaming Slim Devices for the mess that the whole industry is in. Slim just buys a wireless card from someone else. About all Slim could do is switch vendors. They didn't program the card, they didn't make the card, and they probably have only limited ability to fix the mess much bigger players have made.

I don't believe the claim that everyone else's cards just work and happily interoperate. That's not my experience.

If it were true, wireless wouldn't be the biggest problem on everyone's support forums. And you wouldn't have a million choices on the shelf in the local electronics store.

But that's just one man's religion. :-)

Mark Lanctot
2006-01-27, 20:59
--- Michaelwagner
<Michaelwagner.22a0wz (AT) no-mx (DOT) forums.slimdevices.com>
wrote:

> Not much point in blaming Slim Devices for the mess
> that the whole
> industry is in. Slim just buys a wireless card from
> someone else. About
> all Slim could do is switch vendors. They didn't
> program the card, they
> didn't make the card, and they probably have only
> limited ability to
> fix the mess much bigger players have made.
>
> I don't believe the claim that everyone else's cards
> just work and
> happily interoperate. That's not my experience.
>
> If it were true, wireless wouldn't be the biggest
> problem on everyone's
> support forums. And you wouldn't have a million
> choices on the shelf in
> the local electronics store.
>

Awesome post Michael, VERY VERY true!

I just got back from a business trip where the hotel
had an "i-Hotel" wireless connection. Nothing but
problems every minute I was connected. Same thing at
another hotel using "i-Hotel". Different part of the
country, even a different hotel chain.

Michaelwagner
2006-01-28, 00:33
In my appt, I have a Linksys WAP. Simple little box. Ethernet in one end, antennas out the other end. I went for a separate WAP so that if I ever catch a wiley hacker trying to get into my network, yank the power cord and it's out of the loop, without effecting my router.

In my bedroom I have 2 things - a wireless squeezebox and a dell laptop I use sometimes while sitting in bed. It has a wireless card in it, also from Linksys.

Because both ends are from Linksys, I would hope to minimize compatability problems. This works, after a fashion. But only after I spent 2+ days banging my head against the wall.

The laptop is a windows xp laptop. When I plugged the card in, it helpfully offered to "improve" the service by supplying it's own driver. It worked OK without the "improvement". Nothing fancy, none of the multi-homing stuff I'd read about. So after a while, I got daring and accepted the "upgrade".

Nothing worked after that. Oh, it worked. For at least 10 minutes at a time. Then it would lose connectivity for a minute and then come back. Since I was trying to run an SB1, which has about a 5 second buffer, that was 55 seconds of silence every 10 minutes. For me, that's broken.

Long story short, it took 2 days to figure out that XP was the problem, half a day to manage to actually uninstall the damned XP drivers and restore the Linksys supplied drivers (which work much better). Now it works. Only took 2.5 days. And this is Linksys to Linksys. 802.11b. No enhancements. No speed booster, turbo overdrive, Mimo/Mimi/Mihai. Nothing fancy. It's 802.11b for crying out loud. The standard was established in 1999. No one has changed it since XP was a pup. XP still can't get it right.

Yawn. Wake me up again when wireless actually works.

sdwhite
2006-01-28, 17:24
sdwhite,

I understand your frustration. If you haven't sent it back yet, I have a couple of questions:

1) Did you try the wireless with WPA-PSK?
2) If so, are you certain you have the key correct on the SB3?
3) If so, did you try a static IP address, just as a test?


Pat

1] Yes
2] absolutely
3] Tried it but was fairly sure it wouldn't work as the management console on the Draytek reported that SB3 was there but was failing to authenicate.

Pat, cheers for the suggestions, good to see someone on the forum actually offering constructive help as opposed to rambling aimlessly and trying to sound like they know what they are taking about.

Siduhe
2006-01-28, 18:08
SD,

Not sure if you've requested your RMA but:

The new version of the firmware released tonight (6.2.2 and 6.5 - but 6.5 is beta (or alpha, depending on who you ask)). May be worth a try if you haven't.

It's a shame the static IP trick didn't work for you - I spent most of yesterday trying to get slimserver to connect to a Belkin pre-n and could only succeed when every item on my network was assigned a static IP...

sdwhite
2006-01-30, 04:58
I tried the latest version of firmware (29) and still no joy. I did note that the performance of the SB3 in response to the IR remote was absolutely shocking after going to v29 and 6.5. You would wait up to 10 seconds for a response. Made it almost unuseable! Did you press the button, did you not? How long do you wait before pressing again? This was in wired mode. The previous 6.2 and v28 had instantanious IR response.

Anyway made no difference to the wireless.

Credit where credit is due, the guys at Slim Devices did email directly with an update. Unfortunately it was to say that they had not managed to resolve the issue and that it would be a couple of weeks before the next release that would hopefully address the wifi issues.

Michaelwagner
2006-01-30, 07:52
In another thread, Dean announced that he found a bug and would be releasing V30 soon ...

http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?p=82159#post82159