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kewe65
2006-01-15, 10:56
Are there any plans to provide support for iTunes purchased music with the Squeezebox?

This is an unfortunate deal killer for me - the Squeezebox seems like the perfect product for me, but my wife likes the convenience of purchasing single tracks and if we want to listen to music on the stereo in the other room, i need a device such as Squeezebox to support these files.

There are so many other products out there that support playback of iTunes purchased files - including Java documentation for reading the tags using the QuickTime API.

stinkingpig
2006-01-15, 11:05
>
> Are there any plans to provide support for iTunes purchased music with
> the Squeezebox?
>

As soon as Apple licenses Fairplay to Slim Devices Inc, or indeed someone
other than Apple. Keep an eye out for flying pigs, it'll be a hopeful
sign.

> This is an unfortunate deal killer for me - the Squeezebox seems like
> the perfect product for me, but my wife likes the convenience of
> purchasing single tracks and if we want to listen to music on the
> stereo in the other room, i need a device such as Squeezebox to support
> these files.
>

You'll need to use hymn to de-drm them.

> There are so many other products out there that support playback of
> iTunes purchased files - including Java documentation for reading the
> tags using the QuickTime API.
>

That's funny, I thought the only way to do it was to buy an Airport
Express or plug your Ipod into a dock. Could you provide some reference
URLs?

--
Jack Coates At Monkeynoodle Dot Org: It's A Scientific Venture!
"I spent all me tin with the ladies drinking gin, so across the Western
ocean I must wander" - traditional

kdf
2006-01-15, 11:06
kewe65 wrote:
> Are there any plans to provide support for iTunes purchased music with
> the Squeezebox?
>

see other threads on this topic throughout the forums. In summary, look
for info from Apple, becuase unless they are willing to license it, no
*hardware* outside of apple producst will support it. Quicktime and java
API's are only for software systems supported and allowed by Apple to do so.

-kdf

superbad
2006-01-15, 13:42
There are so many other products out there that support playback of iTunes purchased files - including Java documentation for reading the tags using the QuickTime API.

The only one I know of is the Airport thing, which is probably what you are stuck with using I'm afraid. No remote or display, apart from your computer in the other room. Sucks, but there is nothing anyone but Apple can do about it. If you're not worried about the ethics of exploiting Russian copyright loopholes, you could use allofmp3 to download DRM-free individual tracks.

mikerob
2006-01-15, 15:53
In summary, look for info from Apple, becuase unless they are willing to license it, no *hardware* outside of apple producst will support it.
-kdf

The Motorola ROKR (aka CROKR) mobile phone does support DRM protected iTunes Music Store tracks (www.apple.com/uk/itunes/mobile/faq/) but Motorola appear to be the only company to date that Apple has done a licensing deal with.

Skunk
2006-01-15, 16:59
In CompUSA last week I noticed the Soundbridge. The packaging proclaims 'the only ___[forgot term]___ that works directly with Itunes'. I assume this includes DRM protected files (?)

From their site:
SoundBridge uses Apple’s DAAP (digital audio access protocol) to communicate directly with iTunes, and uses less network bandwidth by decoding AAC files in the player rather than in the PC.

kdf
2006-01-15, 17:02
Skunk wrote:
> In CompUSA last week I noticed the Soundbridge. The packaging proclaims
> 'the only ___[forgot term]___ that works directly with Itunes'. I
> assume this includes DRM protected files (?)
>
> >From their site:
> SoundBridge uses Apple’s DAAP (digital audio access protocol) to
> communicate directly with iTunes, and uses less network bandwidth by
> decoding AAC files in the player rather than in the PC.
>
>
Direct connection to iTunes via the DAAP protocol, but that does not
mean DRM support

from the roku faq:
Q. Why don’t you support secured AAC files purchased from the Apple
Music Store?

A. Apple does not allow streaming of files downloaded from their music
store to third party devices. If they ever do, we will support them.*
*


**** <http://www.rokulabs.com/products/soundbridge/faq.php#head>

Skunk
2006-01-15, 17:19
Thank you for correcting me, kdf. I should've stayed out of the discussion, or looked deeper into the site.

I'm sure the sticker on the roku was meant to make people believe what I did.

kdf
2006-01-15, 17:35
Skunk wrote:
> Thank you for correcting me, kdf. I should've stayed out of the
> discussion, or looked deeper into the site.
>
sorry, didn't mean to make it seem like I was scolding. It is a common
misconception. Sadly, marketing can so easily wander into that
territory. Even companies that are "in bed" with Apple, are still having
to fight the DRM battle. It is more about monopoly and control than
about rights or creative works. None of those with the control now have
actually had anything to do with the creative works for which they are
so kindly providing controls.

> I'm sure the sticker on the roku was meant to make people believe what
> I did.
>
Then you now know more than many people who consider their products.

-kdf

kewe65
2006-01-15, 18:22
JRiver Music Center
Music Library
Panther Studio's TitleTrack and Music!

All three of these software packages play protected iTunes files with no problems whatsoever.

JRiver is the biggest of the three and also resembles iTunes quite a bit in terms of the organization of GUI.

snarlydwarf
2006-01-15, 18:59
All three of these software packages play protected iTunes files with no problems whatsoever.

They play it on a machine that has iTunes installed and don't send it to other devices.

Ie, in theory, yes, a Windows or Mac version of Slimserver could use the same libraries and SDK to play audio... except the SDK just calls iTunes instead of decrypting the file.

So the only thing slimserver could do would be to play the song on the sound card of the PC or Mac.

You would have to use the 'analog loophole' and grab the output from your soundcard in order to send to another box (whether it's Sonos, Slim, Roku, whatever..).

stinkingpig
2006-01-15, 19:26
snarlydwarf wrote:
> kewe65 Wrote:
>
>> All three of these software packages play protected iTunes files with
>> no problems whatsoever.
>>
>
> They play it on a machine that has iTunes installed and don't send it
> to other devices.
>
>

exactly:
http://www.freesoftwaremagazine.com/free_issues/issue_02/itunes/index_p6.html

--
Jack at Monkeynoodle dot Org: It's a Scientific Venture...
Riding the Emergency Third Rail Power Trip Since 1996

Michaelwagner
2006-01-15, 21:19
I'm sure the sticker on the roku was meant to make people believe what I did.
I'm sure you're right. Shame on Roku.

Michaelwagner
2006-01-15, 21:23
http://www.freesoftwaremagazine.com/free_issues/issue_02/itunes/index_p6.html

In particular this bit:


While these methods provide playback functionality, they do not allow developers to access the raw audio sampling data and it’s doubtful that this policy will change in the current copyright environment.

kewe65
2006-01-16, 11:56
To be accurate, they play audio on machines that have QuickTime installed - it does not "use iTunes".

And since you must have QuickTime installed to use iTunes (DRM files or not), I'm not sure what the big deal is?

Music Library is a Java-based program that uses the QuickTime API for this purpose.

I'm just looking for a decent hardware device that will stream audio wirelessly from the PC to the stereo.

What Im interested in discussing is how one would extend the SlimServer software to include Music Library as a playback source (as opposed to iTunes).

Where should I go to discuss that?

stinkingpig
2006-01-16, 12:32
kewe65 wrote:
> To be accurate, they play audio on machines that have QuickTime
> installed - it does not "use iTunes".
>
> And since you must have QuickTime installed to use iTunes (DRM files or
> not), I'm not sure what the big deal is?
>
> Music Library is a Java-based program that uses the QuickTime API for
> this purpose.
>
>
All of these play via the computers' sound card, or an Apple Airport
Express.

> I'm just looking for a decent hardware device that will stream audio
> wirelessly from the PC to the stereo.
>
>
You've found one.

> What Im interested in discussing is how one would extend the SlimServer
> software to include Music Library as a playback source (as opposed to
> iTunes).
>
> Where should I go to discuss that?
>

Right here. Slimserver does what you're asking -- however, it cannot
play the encrypted files that you buy from ITMS unless you decrypt them
first. This design limitation is imposed by Apple and cannot be overcome
by the Slim Devices engineers, unless you want to tap the computer's
sound card (the so-called "analog hole"). Check out icecast if you want
to go this way; my page at
http://www.monkeynoodle.org/comp/hardware/slim_radio should provide an
adequate starting point.

--
Jack at Monkeynoodle dot Org: It's a Scientific Venture...
Riding the Emergency Third Rail Power Trip Since 1996

funkstar
2006-01-16, 12:47
The Motorola ROKR (aka CROKR) mobile phone does support DRM protected iTunes Music Store tracks (www.apple.com/uk/itunes/mobile/faq/) but Motorola appear to be the only company to date that Apple has done a licensing deal with.
And even then, Motorola didn't exactly get a good deal out of it. You can only load 100 tracks onto the phone, no matter how much storage you have. Apple even snubbed the ROKR and announced the Nano instead, i think Moto were a bit peeved at that one. Oh, yeah, and it is a fugly phone with horrible software made by Motorola, end of story :)

kewe65
2006-01-16, 13:14
kewe65 wrote:
> To be accurate, they play audio on machines that have QuickTime
> installed - it does not "use iTunes".
>
> And since you must have QuickTime installed to use iTunes (DRM files or
> not), I'm not sure what the big deal is?
>
> Music Library is a Java-based program that uses the QuickTime API for
> this purpose.
>
>
All of these play via the computers' sound card, or an Apple Airport
Express.


> I'm just looking for a decent hardware device that will stream audio
> wirelessly from the PC to the stereo.
>
>
You've found one.


> What Im interested in discussing is how one would extend the SlimServer
> software to include Music Library as a playback source (as opposed to
> iTunes).
>
> Where should I go to discuss that?
>

Right here. Slimserver does what you're asking -- however, it cannot
play the encrypted files that you buy from ITMS unless you decrypt them
first. This design limitation is imposed by Apple and cannot be overcome
by the Slim Devices engineers, unless you want to tap the computer's
sound card (the so-called "analog hole"). Check out icecast if you want
to go this way; my page at
http://www.monkeynoodle.org/comp/hardware/slim_radio should provide an
adequate starting point.


No, the files are decoded prior to the soundcard. A programmer reverse-engineered the quicktime API for the protected format and put the method in a book - "QuickTime for Java: A Developer's Notebook" By Chris Adamson

The software I'm talking about, "Music Library", is unique in that it's the only thing out there right now that will play all different file types AND also access Sony CD Changer tracks via a Slink-e AND placed them in the same inventoried library list.

http://www.mccain.metaconnect.com/musiclib.htm

-

not really 'found' yet. not until i can play the protected files along with everything else.

-

I'm curious about this latter path. Could you describe this in lay terms? I could use the squeezebox to receive the stream based on capturing whatever is passed to the soundcard?

I already actually have the computer wired to take the output from the card to go back into the PC via a 2nd sound card - a Lynx Studio pro model.

This allows me to record anything the PC plays without any extra software...

stinkingpig
2006-01-16, 13:28
kewe65 wrote:
....
> No, the files are decoded prior to the soundcard. A programmer
> reverse-engineered the quicktime API for the protected format and put
> the method in a book - "QuickTime for Java: A Developer's Notebook" By
> Chris Adamson
>
> The software I'm talking about, "Music Library", is unique in that it's
> the only thing out there right now that will play all different file
> types AND also access Sony CD Changer tracks via a Slink-e AND placed
> them in the same inventoried library list.
>
> http://www.mccain.metaconnect.com/musiclib.htm
>
>
I don't have any ITMS files or $45 to test it out, but I think you may
be misunderstanding what I'm saying when I say "play via the
soundcard"... what I mean is "deliver the unencrypted sound to the
soundcard as opposed to a network pipe or file handle". If this program
does enable delivery of unencrypted sound to something other than the
soundcard, he can probably expect a Cease & Desist from Apple pretty
soon. Still, you might be able to hack something together in the meantime.

> I'm curious about this latter path. Could you describe this in lay
> terms? I could use the squeezebox to receive the stream based on
> capturing whatever is passed to the soundcard?
>
> I already actually have the computer wired to take the output from the
> card to go back into the PC via a 2nd sound card - a Lynx Studio pro
> model.
>
> This allows me to record anything the PC plays without any extra
> software...
>
So you're already most of the way there. You next need to convert that
line-in into an http stream. Shoutcast and Icecast are two methods for
doing this. This methodology is a huge pain to set up, maintain, and use
though. It will probably never work reliably. You're really a lot better
off just burning to CD and ripping back to MP3 (a one-time hassle).

--
Jack at Monkeynoodle dot Org: It's a Scientific Venture...
Riding the Emergency Third Rail Power Trip Since 1996

snarlydwarf
2006-01-16, 13:31
The software I'm talking about, "Music Library", is unique in that it's the only thing out there right now that will play all different file types AND also access Sony CD Changer tracks via a Slink-e AND placed them in the same inventoried library list.

http://www.mccain.metaconnect.com/musiclib.htm


But note what it says on that site:


Protected AAC files (M4P) must be authorized to your computer. This can be done only by iTunes, which requires Windows 2000 or XP or Mac OS X.

Thanks to the wonders of the DMCA, it's illegal to circumvent the DRM of iTunes in the US. (It may be legal to use the 'analog loophole' .. but then, it may not... depending on whether a court sees the digital protection as extending to analog playback or not... I'd rather not be a test case.)

I see nothing to indicate that Music Library allows access to the unencrypted stream, or even that it can do anything other than request iTunes DLL's to play a given track.

kewe65
2006-01-16, 17:22
kewe65 wrote:

> I'm curious about this latter path. Could you describe this in lay
> terms? I could use the squeezebox to receive the stream based on
> capturing whatever is passed to the soundcard?
>
> I already actually have the computer wired to take the output from the
> card to go back into the PC via a 2nd sound card - a Lynx Studio pro
> model.
>
> This allows me to record anything the PC plays without any extra
> software...
>
So you're already most of the way there. You next need to convert that
line-in into an http stream. Shoutcast and Icecast are two methods for
doing this. This methodology is a huge pain to set up, maintain, and use
though. It will probably never work reliably. You're really a lot better
off just burning to CD and ripping back to MP3 (a one-time hassle).


Can't Slimserver just be configured to stream to the Squeezebox whatever is being delivered to the soundcard?

All I'm really interested in is playback of these files. I intend on using the laptop and remote desktop to control the playlists and song selection.

What does Slimserver need in order to work with Icecast?

stinkingpig
2006-01-16, 17:39
kewe65 wrote:
....
> Can't Slimserver just be configured to stream to the Squeezebox
> whatever is being delivered to the soundcard?
>
>
That would be pretty cool:
http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=643. I added my vote.

> All I'm really interested in is playback of these files. I intend on
> using the laptop and remote desktop to control the playlists and song
> selection.
>
>
No joke: you're really, really a lot better off just burning to CD and
ripping back to MP3 (a one-time hassle). Or use Hymn.
> What does Slimserver need in order to work with Icecast?
>
>
You just paste the URL of the Icecast stream into the "Tune In" box
under "Internet Radio" in the web interface. Setting up an Icecast
server can be a pain, if converting your DRMed tracks to MP3 looks like
trouble, you really don't want to know how complex this path is.

--
Jack at Monkeynoodle dot Org: It's a Scientific Venture...
Riding the Emergency Third Rail Power Trip Since 1996

Dan Sully
2006-01-16, 17:41
* Jack Coates shaped the electrons to say...

>You just paste the URL of the Icecast stream into the "Tune In" box
>under "Internet Radio" in the web interface. Setting up an Icecast
>server can be a pain, if converting your DRMed tracks to MP3 looks like
>trouble, you really don't want to know how complex this path is.

Take a look at 'Nicecast' for OS X.

-D
--
<jwb> "I am POWERBOOK thy god. Thou shalt have no other laptop before me"
<gage> and the mountains shall drop sweet wine, and the hills shall melt

Steve Baumgarten
2006-01-16, 19:15
>> Can't Slimserver just be configured to stream to the Squeezebox
>> whatever is being delivered to the soundcard?
>
> That would be pretty cool:
> http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=643. I added my vote.

There's a discussion of this going on right now in the Beginners list,
where pbjbryan announced a command-line app for Windows he put together
that reads from the line-in port on the sound card and writes to stdout:

http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=18764

Looks like people are getting really close to having this all working. I
think a lot of people will be quite happy as a result -- no more need
for Icecast/Shoutcast when all you want is to stream from line-in.

SBB

AaronS
2006-01-17, 15:29
I presume everyone knows that jHymn (http://hymn-project.org/jhymndoc/) will let you play iTunes purchased files?

If you don't, you do now.

Michaelwagner
2006-01-17, 15:46
I thought hymn doesn't work on the latest version of loonyTunes.

Michaelwagner
2006-01-17, 15:50
Hey! Can we rename the plug-in to loon-iTunes?

kewe65
2006-01-17, 18:34
yes, JHymn will not convert music purchased with version 6.0 of iTunes.

kewe65
2006-01-17, 18:48
>> Can't Slimserver just be configured to stream to the Squeezebox
>> whatever is being delivered to the soundcard?
>
> That would be pretty cool:
> http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=643. I added my vote.

There's a discussion of this going on right now in the Beginners list,
where pbjbryan announced a command-line app for Windows he put together
that reads from the line-in port on the sound card and writes to stdout:

http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=18764

Looks like people are getting really close to having this all working. I
think a lot of people will be quite happy as a result -- no more need
for Icecast/Shoutcast when all you want is to stream from line-in.

This would be great - and would seal the deal in my purchasing the Squeezebox product. It would solve a great many issues in my mind. Not the least of which is the ability to support other software that can play multiple sources and file types - so long as the software can get the source to the soundcard, the audio would get streamed to the Squeezebox. This includes the playback of Sony CD changers connected to PCs via a Slink-e or SAVR device.

snarlydwarf
2006-01-17, 19:00
This includes the playback of Sony CD changers connected to PCs via a Slink-e or SAVR device.

But why would you choose that over a large HD with FLAC rips of your CD's?

Instant-access to any track seems a lot more enjoyable than waiting for a changer to move heads to the correct CD.

Of course, the ability to intercept audio before it is sent to the sound card is something that will almost certainly be unavailable in Vista. "Trusted Computing" will mean the end to that.

AaronS
2006-01-18, 04:53
yes, JHymn will not convert music purchased with version 6.0 of iTunes.

That's true. But just don't update, or install two different versions of iTunes on different user logins, or buy on a second PC/mac (if you have one), or use a dual boot system. So many options... :)

Using jHymn is the only way to ensure maximum compatibility and the same audio quality as your purchased tracks.

Michaelwagner
2006-01-18, 05:28
It gets worse. The latest version of iTunes re-encrypts (and makes unavailable to hymn) any music you downloaded under previous versions, i.e. it writes all over your older music as well.

It's a fairly disasterous upgrade.

AaronS
2006-01-18, 06:10
It gets worse. The latest version of iTunes re-encrypts (and makes unavailable to hymn) any music you downloaded under previous versions, i.e. it writes all over your older music as well.

It's a fairly disasterous upgrade.

I didn't realise that.. but I'd unlocked all my music before upgrading.

Ben
2006-01-18, 09:28
It gets worse. The latest version of iTunes re-encrypts (and makes unavailable to hymn) any music you downloaded under previous versions, i.e. it writes all over your older music as well.

It's a fairly disasterous upgrade.

Are you sure about that? I thought the limitations of the 6.x upgrades were as follows:

If you buy a song from the iTunes Music Store using version 6, your account somehow becomes 'marked'. Without a new account, even reverting back to earlier versions won't let you buy songs that jHymn can handle. However, any songs that you had already previously purchased under older versions of iTunes _would_ still work with jHymn. not upgrading to 6.x in the first place is the best option. You can still purchase songs fine using the older versions.

Ben

Michaelwagner
2006-01-18, 09:41
I don't use iTunes. But that's what someone else told me. It was here in a forum. I'm at work and can't take the time to search, but you should be able to find it. Search for iTunes and hymn.

kewe65
2006-01-18, 11:45
But why would you choose that over a large HD with FLAC rips of your CD's?

Instant-access to any track seems a lot more enjoyable than waiting for a changer to move heads to the correct CD.


Because I have no intention of ripping all my CDs in the immediate future.

Also, the so-called "wait" is extraordinarily exaggerated. it's always less than 15 seconds and there's cross-fade when switching between two players making the wait zero. Somewhere along the line - i guess once people started ripping their collection - the function of a changer became intolerable? A facscinating and quite humorous comment on the "need it all, right now" mentality digital media and access has created.

kewe65
2006-01-18, 11:47
Are you sure about that? I thought the limitations of the 6.x upgrades were as follows:

If you buy a song from the iTunes Music Store using version 6, your account somehow becomes 'marked'. Without a new account, even reverting back to earlier versions won't let you buy songs that jHymn can handle. However, any songs that you had already previously purchased under older versions of iTunes _would_ still work with jHymn. not upgrading to 6.x in the first place is the best option. You can still purchase songs fine using the older versions.

Ben

to confirm, jhymn works with older purchased music even with the upgrade to 6.0. verified this last night.

Skunk
2006-01-18, 11:52
Also, the so-called "wait" is extraordinarily exaggerated. it's always less than 15 seconds and there's cross-fade when switching between two players making the wait zero.


If you listen to a disc on alternate players every time...

snarlydwarf
2006-01-18, 12:53
BSomewhere along the line - i guess once people started ripping their collection - the function of a changer became intolerable? A facscinating and quite humorous comment on the "need it all, right now" mentality digital media and access has created.

Hrrm, no it is more to do with the benefits of Random Access Storage devices as opposed to Sequential Access. It has more to do with keeping the number of moving parts (Things Which Break) down. It has more to do with the affordability ($300'ish for a 400 CD changer, of which I'd need multiple units, vs $80 for a HD which could store as many CDs in lossless format as a couple changers). It has more to do with not needing to devote serial ports to IR outputs to control the changer. It has more to do with not needing to have a sound card that supports digital inputs (one per changer even) so that I'm not losing quality in superflous D/A conversions... It has more to do with scalability (some people here have well over 50,000 tracks.. at an average of 15 tracks per CD, how many changers is that? How many digital inputs? how many serial-to-IR convertors?)

The function of a changer is no longer useful. There are better solutions to "how do I store several hundred albums in a small, affordable and easily addressable manner?"

This happens with technology. People come up with "better things" all the time. People who are open to change, to actually looking at the best solution for a problem learn to use the new solutions.

Ben
2006-01-18, 13:58
I don't use iTunes. But that's what someone else told me. It was here in a forum. I'm at work and can't take the time to search, but you should be able to find it. Search for iTunes and hymn.

Before I posted, I double checked my info in the Hymn forums, so I think whomever told you that was misinformed.

Ben

kewe65
2006-01-18, 17:02
Hrrm, no it is more to do with the benefits of Random Access Storage devices as opposed to Sequential Access. It has more to do with keeping the number of moving parts (Things Which Break) down. It has more to do with the affordability ($300'ish for a 400 CD changer, of which I'd need multiple units, vs $80 for a HD which could store as many CDs in lossless format as a couple changers). It has more to do with not needing to devote serial ports to IR outputs to control the changer. It has more to do with not needing to have a sound card that supports digital inputs (one per changer even) so that I'm not losing quality in superflous D/A conversions... It has more to do with scalability (some people here have well over 50,000 tracks.. at an average of 15 tracks per CD, how many changers is that? How many digital inputs? how many serial-to-IR convertors?)

The function of a changer is no longer useful. There are better solutions to "how do I store several hundred albums in a small, affordable and easily addressable manner?"

This happens with technology. People come up with "better things" all the time. People who are open to change, to actually looking at the best solution for a problem learn to use the new solutions.

I was responding to the question "why would you wait..."

All your comments/questions are moot once you've already made the investment - back in dayes of yore - when these devices were more popular. My comments come from the premise that one already owns all the equipment to support the CD collection. I would agree that if you are starting from scratch, you should not go out and by a CD changer. Your comparisons are only valid in that context.

The only real question is whether or not one chooses to convert or not.

It's really funny. People seem adamant about promoting this idea that the best route to take is to rip CDs and any suggestion that there is nothing wrong with having CD changers is seen as arcane.

Given the premise that you alreay have the equipment, to argue that random access is better than sequential access is really only about time - that's the only real-world measurable metric. And as i said, the time advantage is minimal in my opinion. Certainly not enough to make it worthwhile for ME to rip the CDs. Even switching between CDs in a single player takes ony a few seconds. Certainly no longer than those days of yore when switching cds manually from their jewel cases was the order of the day.

So, again, I suggest this whole idea of "switching" to computer storage is about having it all, right now.

I'm always open to new technology, but so far no one's produced a cost-effective method of an automated ripping solution to make it worth my while to indeed convert. I just don't have the time to pull CDs in and out of the PC, one at a time ALL THE WHILE doing all the other things i do on the computer. I'm looking for software and hardware that I set in motion that will automatically rip directly from the changers to the hard drive and do all the cataloging for me while i sleep.

Tall order? For sure, but I think the technology needs this type of target. There's a large population of changer owners who'd gladly convert but have neither the time nor the computer savvy (or interest in that level of computer savvyness) to do so.

Michaelwagner
2006-01-18, 17:20
I double checked my info in the Hymn forums, so I think whomever told you that was misinformed.
Quite possibly. And I don't know enough about iTunes to detect a misunderstanding.

snarlydwarf
2006-01-18, 17:35
So, again, I suggest this whole idea of "switching" to computer storage is about having it all, right now.

That makes precisely zero sense.

You explain how you have all the equipment Right Now, and how it would be Work to rip and encode...

And then denounce people who believe that work is justfied for better long term performance?

This whole idea of keeping inferior solutions around "because I have the hardware and don't want to do any work!" seems more like "have it all, right now" than "spend a lot of time ripping, tagging, correcting tags, sorting, correcting tags again so that after you're done and satisfied you have a more robust solution."

As for the comments being moot: no, they're not, actually. "Better performance" is a very good reason to get away from CD Changers. "More Reliability" is, as well. So is "Scalability" (and that comes in at several levels, not just the size of the collection, but also in the number of clients -- with a CD changer as the source of sound, you can't have one set of music playing for you in the listening room and another set playing for your spouse in the bedroom or livingroom...)

Your argument is akin to someone arguing: "we shouldn't use email for business correspondence, we should print everything out! we have filing cabinets for preserving printed documents!"

If you insist on keeping everything as CD audio in a changer, instead of on a hard drive, what, then, does the squeezebox and slimserver give you? It seems like all you want is a Long Speaker Cable and perhaps an IR extender. A squeezebox is so much more capable than that.

Michaelwagner
2006-01-18, 17:40
Your argument is akin to arguing: "we shouldn't use email for business correspondence
Given current levels of spam, it might be a compelling argument :-)

kewe65
2006-01-18, 19:13
if you can't see that there are just as many reasons why someone doesn't have the time nor resources to rip and encode as there are reasons for doing it, then discussing this is pointless. i granted that when starting from scratch it makes perfect sense. The fact that even this isn't enough for you to continue insisting that ripping is the only sensible course of action without regard for the above is part of what makes it so humorous. particularly the inaccurate associations that those reasons somehow place me in the realm of actually promoting antiquated medium.

im sorry you don't like me saying your arguments are moot, but facts are facts. when we're only talking about a few extra seconds, it makes no sense whatsoever to throw more money, time and reources at something when what I have works just fine for me. "better performance", "reliability" and "scalability" are nice buzz words, but weightless. Or "moot" as i've said. How do you measure that? And how do the results of those measurements show that's worth pursuing? you can't. you don't have access to repair data on the changers, for example. you can give only generalizations.

chill out. put your feet up. maybe i just like to see the carousel go 'round and 'round and the blue light flash...

you said "Your argument is akin to someone arguing: "we shouldn't use email for business correspondence, we should print everything out! we have filing cabinets for preserving printed documents!"

my argument is more akin to saying we have libraries full of books. i like reading a book and can't enjoy reading same book on a computer screen. so, lets not go out of our way getting rid of books just so we can have them on the computer.

i haven't denounced anyone, either. i made a general comment on the "i gotta have it all, right now" mentality that seems to drive the ends-justify-the-means approach to ripping and encoding, among other things. im only generalizing because there's probably a majority of people who simply do that because they want to and good for them. im just denouncing anyone who insists that NOT ripping and encoding is backwards or who can't see valid reasons for even retaining an existing configuration that includes changers.

i also never said i only had to have everything on CDs in changers. you said that. i have thousands of songs on audio files and continue to collect them that way

the squeezebox (i thought) serves the purpose of streaming audio to the stereo, made a necessity for me because PC and changers are at one end of the house and the stereo at the other.

thankfully, slimserver has open source software and some open-minded folks interested in making it as flexible as possible.

this puts this product in a class of its own in my opinion, despite what you say i believe...

Skunk
2006-01-18, 19:23
I see your point, FWIW kewe. If you ride the wave correctly- you can listen to your changers until disk storage prices drop enough that you can get a SB3 AND and nokia 770 with the money you save on HD's.

You'll just have even _more_ cd's to rip at that point though :)

kewe65
2006-01-18, 19:42
and i've curtailed my cd purchases mostly to only out of print material not available from the myriad of download sites and SACD/DVD-A formats, which don't rip well.

Pale Blue Ego
2006-01-18, 20:20
Using jHymn is the only way to ensure maximum compatibility and the same audio quality as your purchased tracks.

What about burning the DRM tracks to CD and ripping as FLAC? No quality loss there.

pfarrell
2006-01-18, 20:34
Pale Blue Ego wrote:
> AaronS Wrote:
>>Using jHymn is the only way to ensure maximum compatibility and the same
>>audio quality as your purchased tracks.
>
>
> What about burning the DRM tracks to CD and ripping as FLAC? No
> quality loss there.

More precisely, no additional loss of quality.
Unless the tunes were lossless encoded the first time,
that level of quality is gone.

--
Pat
http://www.pfarrell.com/music/slimserver/slimsoftware.html

Pale Blue Ego
2006-01-18, 20:40
we're only talking about a few extra seconds

You're talking about waiting a few extra seconds between EVERY album, possibly between every SONG if you random play on the CD changer...yet it's too much trouble to place a CD in your computer drive ONCE and then NEVER AGAIN having to wait to hear it?

CD ripping, once the software is configured, is only a matter of placing a CD in the drawer and hitting "close". Isn't that about the same effort as placing a CD in a 400-disc changer and hitting "rotate"? Yet with the changer, you still have to wait every time you listen.

AaronS
2006-01-18, 22:23
What about burning the DRM tracks to CD and ripping as FLAC? No quality loss there.

Yeah, no 'maximum compatibility' though. And a hugely wasteful increase in file size.

kewe65
2006-01-19, 14:26
You're talking about waiting a few extra seconds between EVERY album, possibly between every SONG if you random play on the CD changer...yet it's too much trouble to place a CD in your computer drive ONCE and then NEVER AGAIN having to wait to hear it?

CD ripping, once the software is configured, is only a matter of placing a CD in the drawer and hitting "close". Isn't that about the same effort as placing a CD in a 400-disc changer and hitting "rotate"? Yet with the changer, you still have to wait every time you listen.

fyi, while in random mode on the CD and only changing between songs on that CD, there is no lag whatsoever. it is, in fact, as fast or faster then changing between album songs in audio files.

snarlydwarf
2006-01-19, 15:26
fyi, while in random mode on the CD and only changing between songs on that CD, there is no lag whatsoever. it is, in fact, as fast or faster then changing between album songs in audio files.

Of course, in that mode, just what will your SB say, since it has no way of knowing what random track is playing?

I guess this reminds me of how a certain-other-vendor claimed "we support XM radio!" And when you actually looked at the details it was "yes, plug your XM radio into your sound card, and then you can listen to it!" ("Oh? And how do I change stations?" "Just walk to the radio and change them...")

Sure, you can make it work. But you'll actually have more issues than it's worth unless it has just-as-much-support-as-plug-into-soundcard. Things like getting the disc table of contents (ie, album name, artists, track names) into the database is going to be even more hassle than letting a pc-based ripper look them up and tag them.

funkstar
2006-01-19, 17:58
I'm always open to new technology, but so far no one's produced a cost-effective method of an automated ripping solution to make it worth my while to indeed convert. I just don't have the time to pull CDs in and out of the PC, one at a time ALL THE WHILE doing all the other things i do on the computer. I'm looking for software and hardware that I set in motion that will automatically rip directly from the changers to the hard drive and do all the cataloging for me while i sleep.
Perhaps not the solution you are looking for, and i have no idea where you are located, but have you seen the ripping service Slimdevices have?

https://secure.slimdevices.com/order/ripping.cgi

kewe65
2006-01-20, 12:50
Of course, in that mode, just what will your SB say, since it has no way of knowing what random track is playing?

I guess this reminds me of how a certain-other-vendor claimed "we support XM radio!" And when you actually looked at the details it was "yes, plug your XM radio into your sound card, and then you can listen to it!" ("Oh? And how do I change stations?" "Just walk to the radio and change them...")

Sure, you can make it work. But you'll actually have more issues than it's worth unless it has just-as-much-support-as-plug-into-soundcard. Things like getting the disc table of contents (ie, album name, artists, track names) into the database is going to be even more hassle than letting a pc-based ripper look them up and tag them.

The limitation that I've found on devices that accept wireless audio streams is in the support of the various file types.

So, one drawback of the Squeezebox and SlimServer is that you can't stream DRM iTunes files.

I've looked at dozens of different devices and they all at leasts one file type limitation or another.

I'm looking for the hardware/software configuration that will stream ANYTHING that is played on the PC.

SlimServer at least offers the opportunity of this community to make it as flexible as possible in approaching that objective. It's a simply objective, really.

Yes, the display on the SB box itself is nice, but a key part of meeting the objective is in the control of WHAT is played WHEN. My use involves other family members sitting in the room with the stereo and using a laptop or other touchscreen device such as the Viewsonic AirPanel, and controlling the playback from the PC via XP Remote Desktop.

I have the software solution for playback figured out. Bill McCain's Music Library software has library, playlist and playback support for all my audio source, including the Sony Changers and the iTunes DRM files.

Hence the existing effort to access the soundcard's input so that no matter what is played to the soundcard, THAT will get streamed to the Squeezebox.

At times the SB display might show what's playing, but my users will likely be looking more at the laptop/touchscreen device.

m1abrams
2006-01-20, 13:07
Yeah, no 'maximum compatibility' though. And a hugely wasteful increase in file size.

My flac are just a simple transcode away from ANY format. ;)

And wasteful increase in file size is not true. I can transcode my files to ANY format without having to re-rip or lose quality do to a generation loss that would incurr transcoding a lossy format.

Also the thing with DRM is DONT buy it. DRM is like leasing, you never truly own what you just bought. The terms of the licsense allows apple to change the rules on your purchase at ANY time. That is not very fair to me. Also the fact that they will not let you listen to the music any way you want is not cool either.

I love my digital music and do not use CDs anymore. However I still buy my music in CD form unless it is offered in FLAC format. Buying a DRMed product that is less quality than a CD for the same price or more of the CD just does not make sense to me. I understand people who want just 1 song it is a good deal, but I like getting the whole CD cause it introduces me to songs you dont normal hear.

snarlydwarf
2006-01-20, 13:34
So, one drawback of the Squeezebox and SlimServer is that you can't stream DRM iTunes files.


That's because Apple won't license it to anyone else. (And because they make promises to record companies about how their licensing model works, this is unlikely to change.) Name two digital music players (hardware or software) that are not made by Apple that support iTunes DRM directly. (Requiring iTunes to be installed on the PC, as Music Library does, means that he's using the iTunes DLL's... it won't work without iTunes installed, and it won't work unless you authorize that specific PC to play them, using up one of your licenses.)



I've looked at dozens of different devices and they all at leasts one file type limitation or another.


Again, none of the 'network audio players' will play DRM'd iTunes tracks. The only product not made by Apple that does is one cell phone. That's it. The only software that supports it requires iTunes to be installed and authorized for that track, and has no access at all to the unencrypted stream.

Really.



I'm looking for the hardware/software configuration that will stream ANYTHING that is played on the PC.


Beware: This Will Change. Look at things like 'Secure Audio Path' from Microsoft and their plans to make this stuff mandatory on Vista. You will not be able to do anything except, perhaps, use the analog loophole and loopback your audio-out to your Aux-in. No more sneaky device drivers that capture sound. This means a loss of quality -- you have to throw in an extra digital-analog conversion which is a Bad Thing for fidelity.



SlimServer at least offers the opportunity of this community to make it as flexible as possible in approaching that objective. It's a simply objective, really.


Sure, it's simple in theory: but you'll find that it's going to get more and more complex. You're going to be fighting Apple, Microsoft and Real (and now Google). It's also not at all what the Squeezebox is good at.

It still sounds like what you want is not a "network audio player"... it sounds like what you actually want is "a very long cable from my computer to my amplifier". That's fine: it's not how I would do things, but it really does sound like what you want. Especially when you talk about using Remote Desktop to control things.

There are existing devices to do that. They pollute the 2.4Ghz spectrum, but they do exist: X10.com has piles of them. Google for "audio sender" for a bunch of others. They're usually less than $50.

Far cheaper than a Squeezebox.

Of course, you will still run into DRM issues. (Try to play two iTunes tracks at the same time.) You will have a higher costs (keeping at least one Windows server up and running, possibly more depending on how many unique streams you wish to support, not to mention all the licenses you will need for the music...

kewe65
2006-01-20, 16:21
That's because Apple won't license it to anyone else. (And because they make promises to record companies about how their licensing model works, this is unlikely to change.) Name two digital music players (hardware or software) that are not made by Apple that support iTunes DRM directly. (Requiring iTunes to be installed on the PC, as Music Library does, means that he's using the iTunes DLL's... it won't work without iTunes installed, and it won't work unless you authorize that specific PC to play them, using up one of your licenses.)



Again, none of the 'network audio players' will play DRM'd iTunes tracks. The only product not made by Apple that does is one cell phone. That's it. The only software that supports it requires iTunes to be installed and authorized for that track, and has no access at all to the unencrypted stream.

Really.

Really irrelevant to me. I have no intention of removing iTunes. You make the point from the premise that i have to have iTunes. Well, of course. I have no issues with it. It is, in fact, one of the best music library managers out there. Bested only by J.River's Music Center.




Beware: This Will Change. Look at things like 'Secure Audio Path' from Microsoft and their plans to make this stuff mandatory on Vista. You will not be able to do anything except, perhaps, use the analog loophole and loopback your audio-out to your Aux-in. No more sneaky device drivers that capture sound. This means a loss of quality -- you have to throw in an extra digital-analog conversion which is a Bad Thing for fidelity.

For every attempt to control the users PC, there will be just as many things created to circumvent it. Do you honestly believe that somehow Microsoft and Apple have found the impenetrable silver bullet?

This issue goes beyond my specific requirements and even the miniscule by comparison network audio devices realm. I certainly have no plans to upgrade to Vista. So far no value-add as far as Im concerned.



Sure, it's simple in theory: but you'll find that it's going to get more and more complex. You're going to be fighting Apple, Microsoft and Real (and now Google). It's also not at all what the Squeezebox is good at.

True. The hardware is only the receiver of the stream and distributor to the stereo. Im mostly interested in the quality of it's audio components in terms of what it does receive.

The fact of the matter is that it's worthwhile to spend the money to get the open source software.



It still sounds like what you want is not a "network audio player"... it sounds like what you actually want is "a very long cable from my computer to my amplifier". That's fine: it's not how I would do things, but it really does sound like what you want. Especially when you talk about using Remote Desktop to control things.


If a very long cable was possible we wouldn't be talking.



There are existing devices to do that. They pollute the 2.4Ghz spectrum, but they do exist: X10.com has piles of them. Google for "audio sender" for a bunch of others. They're usually less than $50.

All these devices suck, to put it plainly. I've tried FM transmitters, too. Nothing in the less than $100 is good enough.



Far cheaper than a Squeezebox.


I think i made my point. $300 is still more economical, plus better quality.



Of course, you will still run into DRM issues. (Try to play two iTunes tracks at the same time.) You will have a higher costs (keeping at least one Windows server up and running, possibly more depending on how many unique streams you wish to support, not to mention all the licenses you will need for the music...

Why would I need to play two iTunes tracks at the same time? The frequency that one person wants to play something on the PC and someone else wants to play something on the stereo from the PC source is next to nil in my home. Until it does, the point is moot and i'll deal with that issue if and when it arises...

Licenses? Irrelevant. If I have access to what the player is sending to the output of the soundcard, then its already assumed that the validity exists else i wouldn't be able to play the material.

m1abrams
2006-01-20, 16:53
You may very well want to listen to one song in one room and another in another room. That is why, many people here have multiple SBs and have multiple people in a household use them.

Also your statement about fine let someone circumvent the DRM. Well better solution for you would be to NOT support DRM by not buying music with DRM.

snarlydwarf
2006-01-20, 17:41
Really irrelevant to me. I have no intention of removing iTunes. You make the point from the premise that i have to have iTunes. Well, of course. I have no issues with it. It is, in fact, one of the best music library managers out there. Bested only by J.River's Music Center.

You're the one who brought up that the SB can't play iTunes DRM'd songs.... If that's not important, then why bring it up as something that it lacks, and will continue to lack unless Apple changes licensing on FairPlay?


For every attempt to control the users PC, there will be just as many things created to circumvent it. Do you honestly believe that somehow Microsoft and Apple have found the impenetrable silver bullet?


As long as there is instability in the DRM market with several incompatible schemes, you will still have at least CD's (unless more rootkits come out..). Unless you have source code to Windows, you're going to have to use the "analog loophole" to get sound. Again, this inserts a whole bunch of quality loss by having a pointless D/A conversion -- something that should be avoided.

Remember: the DMCA makes it a criminal offense to circumvent DRM.



True. The hardware is only the receiver of the stream and distributor to the stereo. Im mostly interested in the quality of it's audio components in terms of what it does receive.


Then you should be concerned about the whole audio chain: you will need to have a digital input to your PC from your changer, and you will need to encode the bitstream to FLAC or WAV, or you will have a quality loss. Likewise, all your sound output from the PC that you wish to capture and redirect will have to completely avoid the analog side of things. Ie, another digital out/input or capturing the sound at the driver level.



I think i made my point. $300 is still more economical, plus better quality.


Your money: but I still think you're adding layers of obfuscation to things and sacrificing the quality. Every D/A conversion sacrifices sound quality. I don't think it's better quality at all. You want to keep those D/A conversions at the minimum.



Licenses? Irrelevant. If I have access to what the player is sending to the output of the soundcard, then its already assumed that the validity exists else i wouldn't be able to play the material.

You're assuming your system is scalable. It's not. (Ie, try 2 or more players.. do the Windows Media and iTunes decoders allow more than one instance at a time? You will need to run an instance of each for each audio device. This may very well mean multiple servers...)

Again, your business doing it this way, but it is far from ideal and you will most likely be disappointed in the resulting sound quality, flexibility and performance.

Or you can ignore me, not my problem. I give up trying to help you get the best quality sound and features. You obviously know what you want and have chosen The Way To Get It, and refuse to actually accept advice from others.

Have fun.

kewe65
2006-01-20, 18:29
As I've said, I'm all ears, but you've actually offered no suggestions on meeting the objective. What you have offered is opinions based on some premises that didn't exist in the first place. It gets pretty frustrating when it seems your advice is not really focused on responses to what I'm saying but on some projection of assumptions. Playback of two iTunes tracks simultaneously, warning of the dependency of iTunes, warning that im asking for trouble with Vista, etc... So sorry, but that's where the tone is coming from.

Also, you claim that I'm losing sound quality. Would you mind explaining where my configuration is losing sound quality? I have two professional, studio quality sound cards in my PC and the path is all-digital into the card I'm using as the recording point - I use my PC to do a lot of audio and video recording.

So, sure, what do you suggest (besides your obvious preference for rip and encode)? The idea is to have full and flexible streaming of anything I play on the PC, regardless of how it gets into the PC (changer, soundcard, audio file).

Fundamentally, I would think that if SlimServer provided support to utilize the Music Library software similarly to iTunes, but let that software worry about all the license, etc., restrictions, there is no loss in audio quality. That software plays audio just the same as any other software player with the added benefit of support for the changers and iTunes DRM.

kewe65
2006-01-20, 18:37
You may very well want to listen to one song in one room and another in another room. That is why, many people here have multiple SBs and have multiple people in a household use them.

Sure, but since that scenario rarely if ever comes up in my house, it's way down of the priority list of functionality needed.



Also your statement about fine let someone circumvent the DRM. Well better solution for you would be to NOT support DRM by not buying music with DRM.

While I wholeheartedly agree with sentiment, there are bigger fish to fry than being a political activist through boycotting DRM material. You have to pick and choose your battles, no? And Im just tapped out with real political issues...

Besides, isn't Slim Devices supporting Apple by having SlimServer support for iTunes playlists? There is no iTunes without DRM material in that it wouldn't exist if they weren't in the business of selling music.

Skunk
2006-01-20, 18:48
I'm looking for the hardware/software configuration that will stream ANYTHING that is played on the PC.


Someone will correct me if I'm wrong, so I don't mind saying that the Wavelength brick will do this. IIRC it plays system sounds and all.

kewe65
2006-01-20, 18:53
Someone will correct me if I'm wrong, so I don't mind saying that the Wavelength brick will do this. IIRC it plays system sounds and all.

I'm assuming your talking about Wavelength Audio's "Brick USB DAC"?

http://www.wavelengthaudio.com/Cosecant.html

Fascinating. Anyone with experience with this?

Upon further reading, I'm a little fuzzy on how it gets audio from the device connected to the PC wirelessly to the stereo...

Skunk
2006-01-20, 18:54
Anyone with experience with this?

Don't go there, please.

EDIT:http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=19367&highlight=wavelength

snarlydwarf
2006-01-20, 19:05
Someone will correct me if I'm wrong, so I don't mind saying that the Wavelength brick will do this. IIRC it plays system sounds and all.

But it doesn't get around the cable problem.... USB cables do have length limits.

Of course, speaker wire has length restrictions as well, but people have run Long Speaker Cables for years for either commercial sound systems or 'smarthome' setups.

kewe65
2006-01-20, 19:17
looks to me that this device does not stream wirelessly - requires wiring of some sort. no dice.

Skunk
2006-01-20, 19:21
But it doesn't get around the cable problem.... USB cables do have length limits.


Not inherently, but there are lots of ways around the problem. If the quality is better, it's worth it. (I'm not saying the quality is better!)

Skunk
2006-01-20, 23:39
requires wiring of some sort. no dice.

Life is full of compromises. The time you've spent not only typing your responses but rereading them for mistakes could have been used to rip your cds, all leisurly like mate.

AaronS
2006-01-21, 04:53
My flac are just a simple transcode away from ANY format. ;)

And wasteful increase in file size is not true. I can transcode my files to ANY format without having to re-rip or lose quality do to a generation loss that would incurr transcoding a lossy format.



Yeah, but you are never going to improve on the quality of the original iTunes-purchased MP4, are you? So changing the format is wasteful.


Also the thing with DRM is DONT buy it. DRM is like leasing, you never truly own what you just bought. The terms of the licsense allows apple to change the rules on your purchase at ANY time. That is not very fair to me. Also the fact that they will not let you listen to the music any way you want is not cool either.

Well, obviously. Which is why I only buy stuff on iTunes that is unavailable in other places (for example, Belle and Sebastian recent released an album there that won't be released anywhere else).


However I still buy my music in CD form unless it is offered in FLAC format. Buying a DRMed product that is less quality than a CD for the same price or more of the CD just does not make sense to me.

All good, obvious points.

m1abrams
2006-01-21, 06:36
Yeah, but you are never going to improve on the quality of the original iTunes-purchased MP4, are you? So changing the format is wasteful.
Very true which is why I dont but iTunes music. ;)

kewe65
2006-01-27, 17:56
Life is full of compromises. The time you've spent not only typing your responses but rereading them for mistakes could have been used to rip your cds, all leisurly like mate.

life's just that simple for you aint it.... must be nice.

Skunk
2006-01-28, 00:38
I seriously question your motives for being here.

A recording/editing professional would frequent different forums.

Monitor on your PC, burn it to DVD, and go watch it in your HT.

kewe65
2006-02-06, 09:44
I seriously question your motives for being here.

A recording/editing professional would frequent different forums.

Monitor on your PC, burn it to DVD, and go watch it in your HT.

I question your support of this product and its OPEN SOURCE software.

I came here because of my interest in the product and that it is the only one supported by open source software.

My query was and has always been the same - is there the flexibility to leverage that open source community to extend the software to cover more sources.

That's it and all its ever been. I never started the burn CD conversation - that appears to be your gig (and a rather dictatorial one at that given your responses - particularly the off-handed remarks that really have nothing to with the subject at hand).

Keep it up. Great way to discourage potential customers is to persist that they are wrong unless they do things the way you prefer....

Michaelwagner
2006-02-06, 12:26
I think there's a misunderstanding here.

Support for DRM and iTunes DRM has nothing to do with open source. In fact, quite the contrary.

Apple won't release the license to anyone, Slim or others (well, there was one other, but it was some kind of an exception).

Many people here don't much like Apple for what they've done with iTunes.

But the people who have contributed here on this form and in this thread (including myself and Skunk) are not Slim employees. They don't speak for Slim (unless it says "Slim Devices" in their header).

If you somehow acquired the license to the iTunes decrypting library, you'd be welcome to "leverage the open source" and modify it. But I think you'd find that Apple, not Slim, would be the stumbling block there.

John Stimson
2006-02-06, 12:58
You seem intent on making life difficult for yourself. There are utilities for unlocking AAC files with DRM. I think the "hymn" tool that several people have mentioned is one of them. That seems like the simplest solution to me: use a tool to remove the DRM, then you can use the mov123 script or FAAD2 to play the resulting unencrypted AAC files on your SqueezeBox.

fairyliquidizer
2006-02-06, 13:13
You seem intent on making life difficult for yourself. There are utilities for unlocking AAC files with DRM. I think the "hymn" tool that several people have mentioned is one of them. That seems like the simplest solution to me: use a tool to remove the DRM, then you can use the mov123 script or FAAD2 to play the resulting unencrypted AAC files on your SqueezeBox.

Do these programs still work? I was planning on burning to CD and ripping as FLAC for the tracks that I have bought.

John Stimson
2006-02-07, 14:59
I have FairKeys and DeDRMS which I used successfully about 1 year ago on some m4p files that I purchased from iTunes. I just bought another, so I get to find out if those tools still work.

Those tools seem to have been removed from the site. A note says that they have been replaced with an integrated tool called JusteTune, but there is no evidence of that either. It may have been taken down due to people complaining about problems with iTunes 6. Plus the developer just started a new job, so he may be busy with other things right now.

fairyliquidizer
2006-02-07, 16:12
I've just been reading Jons blog.

So I have to choose between burning and ripping on capturing the "what you can hear"

kewe65
2006-02-15, 14:24
Do these programs still work? I was planning on burning to CD and ripping as FLAC for the tracks that I have bought.

yeah, trouble is the hymn tool doesn't support the latest version of iTunes.

i actually have guided my music purchasing family members to check emusic.com first. that site lets you purchase mp3's and is much cheaper than iTunes, just doesn't have the same catalog size.

kewe65
2006-02-15, 14:33
I think there's a misunderstanding here.

Support for DRM and iTunes DRM has nothing to do with open source. In fact, quite the contrary.

Apple won't release the license to anyone, Slim or others (well, there was one other, but it was some kind of an exception).

Many people here don't much like Apple for what they've done with iTunes.

But the people who have contributed here on this form and in this thread (including myself and Skunk) are not Slim employees. They don't speak for Slim (unless it says "Slim Devices" in their header).

If you somehow acquired the license to the iTunes decrypting library, you'd be welcome to "leverage the open source" and modify it. But I think you'd find that Apple, not Slim, would be the stumbling block there.

nah, that's not what i meant.

under a different thread, the conversation went the route of using the SlimServer's open source concept to extend the software so that it would support streaming via the SB3, whatever was being sent to the soundcard.

http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=643

http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?p=79054#post79054

there are several non-itunes media players out there that can play the iTunes files. JRiver Media Center is the biggest one i know of. so, why can't Slimserver use those applications, which leverage the QTime playback component, to enable streaming of ANYTHING on the hard drive.

this routed into a conversation about access the input port of a soundcard to stream via the SB3 to a stereo in the other room. This sort of required a cable routed from the output of the card back into the card or into a 2nd card, but that would work.

http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=18764&page=4

there seems to be plenty of interest in this concept.

but all of this is gratefully reliant on the opensource aspect of the SlimServer. for example, these sorts of changes would never happen on SONOS software...