PDA

View Full Version : Attention Slim Devices: Apple/iTunes store DRM question...



EnochLight
2006-01-15, 02:43
I realize that this might be better suited to all of us Squeezebox owners holding a rally outside of Steve Job's office but... I figured I'd ask...

Is there any possibility that we will see the ability to playback songs purchased through iTunes on our Squeezebox's?

It seems like it should be so simple: why can't a squeezebox be considered one of the 5 computers that you can authorize to playback iTunes-store purchased music? That seems like it would be the easiest route anyway...

By no fault of you guys, I'm completely irritated at Apple's treatment of DRM. I wish I had never purchased any music from the iTune's store and stuck with ordering CD's on Amazon for pete's sake! Thank heavens it's only a handful of stuff I was too lazy to wait for.

Anyway, thanks for listening.

water
2006-01-15, 03:08
Is there any possibility that we will see the ability to playback songs purchased through iTunes on our Squeezebox's?

well there's 2 possibilities :

1) apple licenses fairplay to slimdevices
2) slimdevices introduces som kind of hack that
removes fairplay

we can always hope for number 1, but it'll probably take some kind of anti-trust court order for that to ever happen...

i'm pretty sure we'll never see number 2.



It seems like it should be so simple: why can't a squeezebox be considered one of the 5 computers that you can authorize to playback iTunes-store purchased music? That seems like it would be the easiest route anyway...

see number 1 above - it's not a computer that gets authorized, it's a computer with itunes insatalled.

:water

EnochLight
2006-01-15, 10:08
see number 1 above - it's not a computer that gets authorized, it's a computer with itunes insatalled.
:water

Ahhhh - I didn't realize that, but now it makes sense. That's tragic, as I also never see option 1 ever happening (and would hope that we wouldn't have to resort to option 2 - although I am not venomently opposed to it if it gives me the ability to play my purchased music on my Squeezebox)!

Anyway, thanks for the reply. I hereby now boycott iTunes-store purchases, even if it is a great convenience to an iPod owner such as myself. The ability to keep it served on my media server and play it through my Squeezebox takes presidence over that.

allanimal
2006-01-15, 10:43
On 15 Jan 2006, at 18:08 , EnochLight wrote:

>
> water Wrote:
>>
>> see number 1 above - it's not a computer that gets authorized, it's a
>> computer with itunes insatalled.
>> :water
>
> Ahhhh - I didn't realize that, but now it makes sense. That's tragic,
> as I also never see option 1 ever happening (and would hope that we
> wouldn't have to resort to option 2 - although I am not venomently
> opposed to it if it gives me the ability to play my purchased music on
> my Squeezebox)!
>
> Anyway, thanks for the reply. I hereby now boycott iTunes-store
> purchases, even if it is a great convenience to an iPod owner such as
> myself. The ability to keep it served on my media server and play it
> through my Squeezebox takes presidence over that.


Take a look at:

http://hymn-project.org/

Or, you can always burn you iTunes purchased music to CD and then re-
rip the CD to a non-DRMed format. Yes, there is a quality loss, so
you will have to choose the lesser of two evils. Try it, if the
quality is not acceptable, just keep the DRMed copies.

stinkingpig
2006-01-15, 11:01
>
> I realize that this might be better suited to all of us Squeezebox
> owners holding a rally outside of Steve Job's office but... I figured
> I'd ask...
>
> Is there any possibility that we will see the ability to playback songs
> purchased through iTunes on our Squeezebox's?
>

I've read that you can use hymn to de-encrypt them. Of course that's
breaking several EULAs and could theoretically open you up to lawsuits,
but then, there are those who'd say a bit of civil disobedience is part of
living in a modern society.

> It seems like it should be so simple: why can't a squeezebox be
> considered one of the 5 computers that you can authorize to playback
> iTunes-store purchased music? That seems like it would be the easiest
> route anyway...

Others have posted it before, but the model of "Slimserver plays
synchronized tracks to multiple players coming from anywhere" is anathema
to the DRM mindset of "full point-to-point control over all play paths".
Reality disconnect is sadly a common malady in corporate circles.

>
> By no fault of you guys, I'm completely irritated at Apple's treatment
> of DRM. I wish I had never purchased any music from the iTune's store
> and stuck with ordering CD's on Amazon for pete's sake! Thank heavens
> it's only a handful of stuff I was too lazy to wait for.
>
> Anyway, thanks for listening.

Search the list archives for something like "legal downloads" -- there are
quite a few places where you can purchase good music online. Back catalog
of the big labels and current Billboard hits will be tougher to find
unless you go to allofmp3.
--
Jack Coates At Monkeynoodle Dot Org: It's A Scientific Venture!
"I spent all me tin with the ladies drinking gin, so across the Western
ocean I must wander" - traditional

EnochLight
2006-01-15, 16:44
Or, you can always burn you iTunes purchased music to CD and then re-rip the CD to a non-DRMed format. Yes, there is a quality loss, so you will have to choose the lesser of two evils. Try it, if the
quality is not acceptable, just keep the DRMed copies.

If I burn my iTunes purchased music to a CD, there should be no loss of quality since it's being decompressed into an encoded wav. Afterwards, if I re-rip them into wav or a lossless codec such as FLAC or Apple Lossless, there should be no perceptible loss in audio quality.

Does this sound correct?

pfarrell
2006-01-15, 17:41
EnochLight wrote:
> If I burn my iTunes purchased music to a CD, there should be no loss of
> quality since it's being decompressed into an encoded wav. Afterwards,
> if I re-rip them into wav or a lossless codec such as FLAC or Apple
> Lossless, there should be no perceptible loss in audio quality.
>
> Does this sound correct?

Decompressing it does not recover the lost signal.
Its gone forever.

If you later compress them with a lossless system, you
aren't hurting them further. But you still don't have
what the artist and engineer labored to put there.

If you recompress with another lossy system, say Ogg or Wma,
then you are likely to make it significantly worse as each
algorithm has its own biases. Whether this is important depends.

For casual listening, its probably fine. But no audiophile would
consider it equivalent.

Lossy compression throws away stuff.
No such think as a free lunch and all that.



--
Pat
http://www.pfarrell.com/music/slimserver/slimsoftware.html

EnochLight
2006-01-15, 22:06
Decompressing it does not recover the lost signal.
Its gone forever.


I am aware of that; I'm not saying that files like that are lossless to begin with. However, ripping them to CD doesn't degrade their sound quality from the original lossy file any further, as ripping them back to a wav wouldn't either. All a file is on an audio cd is a wav file, with a bit of encryption. When you rip songs purchased through iTunes to a CD, it rips them to a wav. I was proposing keeping them as such to get rid of the DRM stuff attached to them.

allanimal
2006-01-15, 23:58
On 16 Jan 2006, at 06:06 , EnochLight wrote:

> to a wav wouldn't either. All a file is on an audio cd is a wav file,
> with a bit of encryption. When you rip songs purchased through iTunes
> to a CD, it rips them to a wav. I was proposing keeping them as such
>

Audio CDs do not have files. Windows and OS X (and maybe other OSes)
make it look like they do, but they really don't have individual
files on them.

ceejay
2006-01-16, 00:44
I am aware of that; I'm not saying that files like that are lossless to begin with. However, ripping them to CD doesn't degrade their sound quality from the original lossy file any further, as ripping them back to a wav wouldn't either. All a file is on an audio cd is a wav file, with a bit of encryption. When you rip songs purchased through iTunes to a CD, it rips them to a wav. I was proposing keeping them as such to get rid of the DRM stuff attached to them.

Hi, yes of course you are right (I think a couple of other posters may be misunderstanding you). Once you've suffered the double indignity of being sent music which is lossy AND DRM'ed, you can convert as much as you like using lossless converters (WAV, FLAC, whatever) without losing any more bits.

Ceejay

EnochLight
2006-01-16, 06:52
Once you've suffered the double indignity of being sent music which is lossy AND DRM'ed...
Ceejay

LOL - I don't think I could have said it any better myself. ;-)

allanimal
2006-01-16, 09:43
On 16 Jan 2006, at 06:06 , EnochLight wrote:

>
> pfarrell Wrote:
>>
>>
>> Decompressing it does not recover the lost signal.
>> Its gone forever.
>>
>
> I am aware of that; I'm not saying that files like that are
> lossless to
> begin with. However, ripping them to CD doesn't degrade their sound
> quality from the original lossy file any further, as ripping them back
> to a wav wouldn't either. All a file is on an audio cd is a wav file,
> with a bit of encryption. When you rip songs purchased through iTunes
> to a CD, it rips them to a wav. I was proposing keeping them as such
> to get rid of the DRM stuff attached to them.


One other point to consider....
Burning to CD and then ripping a file from iTunes will remove the
DRM, and you won't suffer an additional quality loss if you use a
lossless format. But remember, you will have the quality of a 128
kbps (or whatever) lossy file with the file size of a non-lossy file.
May not be a big deal in this era of cheap drives, and if you only
have a few tracks in this situation, but it will add up if you have a
lot of tracks from the ITMS.