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Philip Meyer
2005-12-29, 03:14
I have an album "Trojan Dub Massive Chapter Two", which is labelled as by artist Bill Laswell. The album however contains various artists.

I have tagged each track with the actual artist, and also added the tag ALBUMARTIST="Bill Laswell" to each track.

This works well, in that the album isn't listed under "Various Artists" - I can see the album appearing under Bill Laswell in my Browse Artists list (and somehow it is sorted under L for Laswell, even though there is no tag such as ALBUMARTISTSORT - must be because it detects other albums that I have by this artist where I have an ARTISTSORT tag?).

However, each individual track artist is being blown out into the Browse Artist list too. This was unexpected for me, as my Compilations Behaviour settings are:

Composer, Band and Orchestra in Artists:
"Band/Orchestra" is unticked.

Compilations:
"Group compilation albums together"
"List albums by band"

I believe that ALBUMARTIST and BAND tags are considered to be the same thing in SlimServer.

I guess that the album isn't considered a compilation album, as I have specified an ALBUMARTIST tag, and therefore SlimServer doesn't look at the "List albums by band" setting.

Does anyone else think this is a bug, or have I misunderstood these settings or what is happening?

Phil

slimpy
2005-12-29, 04:59
This works well, in that the album isn't listed under "Various Artists" - I can see the album appearing under Bill Laswell in my Browse Artists list
The album should actually be listed under Various Artists with Bill Laswell as artist (Trojan Dub Massive Chapter Two by Bill Laswell) vs other various artists album without band tag (Some Album by Various Artists)

However, each individual track artist is being blown out into the Browse Artist list too.
This happens on my Slimserver installation (6.2.1) if I add a various artists album by browsing to the album's directory in "Browse Music Folder". If I do a complete rescan, the album is correctly listed under "Various Artists" and track artists don't show up in Browse Artists. Have you tried a full rescan?
What version of slimserver are you running? Does this happen with id3 or ogg tags?

-s.

Philip Meyer
2005-12-29, 05:54
>The album should actually be listed under Various Artists with Bill
>Laswell as artist (Trojan Dub Massive Chapter Two by Bill Laswell) vs
>other various artists album without band tag (Some Album by Various
>Artists)
>
I like the way it is currently tagging the songs, so the album is listed under Bill Laswell, rather than as a various artists album, but the songs appear with the correct artists, eg:
1. Drum Rock by The Upsetters from Trojan Dub Massive Chapter Two

>This happens on my Slimserver installation (6.2.1) if I add a various
>artists album by browsing to the album's directory in "Browse Music
>Folder". If I do a complete rescan, the album is correctly listed under
>"Various Artists" and track artists don't show up in Browse Artists.
>Have you tried a full rescan?
Yes.

>What version of slimserver are you running? Does this happen with id3
>or ogg tags?
>
I am using 6.2.2 trunk. This albums is using ID3 tags, edited with MP3tag v2.34f.

Phil

slimpy
2005-12-29, 07:08
I believe that ALBUMARTIST and BAND tags are considered to be the same thing in SlimServer.

I guess that the album isn't considered a compilation album, as I have specified an ALBUMARTIST tag, and therefore SlimServer doesn't look at the "List albums by band" setting.

I have fiddled with Mp3tag a bit and I think I now understand what you mean. You have manually entered ALBUMARTIST tags to your files. This means you have now a user defined field called ALBUMARTIST. In some programs the id3 standard tag TPE2 (BAND) is referred to as the albumartist tag. This might lead to some confusion.
I don't think Slimserver treats the TPE2 (BAND) and your user defined ALBUMARTIST tag in the same way. If it did your album would be listed under Various Artists.
The "List albums by band" setting is completely irrelevant in this case because there are no TPE2 (BAND) tags at all. And if there were your album would be listed under both Various Artists and Bill Laswell.
I believe that your custom ALBUMARTIST tag is treated like a regular artist tag.
When you look at the details page for a single file what do you see? Is Bill Laswell listed as additional artist or is there an entry ALBUMARTIST: Bill Laswell?

Generally speaking it is always cumbersome to introduce custom fields because you cannot predict how they will be interpreted by different programs.

-s.

Philip Meyer
2005-12-29, 10:26
>I have fiddled with Mp3tag a bit and I think I now understand what you
>mean. You have manually entered ALBUMARTIST tags to your files. This
>means you have now a user defined field called ALBUMARTIST.
>
Yes

> In some
>programs the id3 standard tag TPE2 (BAND) is referred to as the
>albumartist tag. This might lead to some confusion.
>
I certainly thought that BAND and ALBUMARTIST were the same thing.

>I don't think Slimserver treats the TPE2 (BAND) and your user defined
>ALBUMARTIST tag in the same way. If it did your album would be listed
>under Various Artists.
>
SlimServer is doing something with ALBUMARTIST, as my BAND tag is empty for all tracks on the album, and yet I see the album listed under Bill Laswell, which is in my ALBUMARTIST tag.

>The "List albums by band" setting is completely irrelevant in this case
>because there are no TPE2 (BAND) tags at all. And if there were your
>album would be listed under both Various Artists and Bill Laswell.
>I believe that your custom ALBUMARTIST tag is treated like a regular
>artist tag.
Ah! That might explain it. Every track would have an Artist of "Bill Laswell", so the album wouldn't be considered a "Various Artist" compilation album, but as there are other artists for some tracks, those artists get listed also.

>When you look at the details page for a single file what do you see? Is
>Bill Laswell listed as additional artist or is there an entry
>ALBUMARTIST: Bill Laswell?

Title: Drum Rock
Album Artist: Bill Laswell
Artist: The Upsetters
Album: Trojan Dub Massive Chapter Two

So ALBUMARTIST isn't being directly treated as an additional artist.

I quite like the way it's working in general, as I can see the Album Artist and the individual artists. "Album Artist" sounds better than "Band". I have a few albums like this, such as the "Another Late Night" compilation series. The only side effect is the other involved artists being expanded out into the browse artist list.

>Generally speaking it is always cumbersome to introduce custom fields
>because you cannot predict how they will be interpreted by different
>programs.
>
True, but I have no idea what tags are standard or custom!

Perhaps it would be a good idea to add a page to the wiki that lists all of the tags that SlimServer interprets and how they are used.


I have another example in my music collection: I have several albums by Robert Fripp, several by Brian Eno and several by "Fripp & Eno". For the Fripp & Eno cases, I have entered two artists "Robert Fripp;Brian Eno" and ALBUMARTIST="Fripp & Eno". Thus these albums appear in the artist list under three different artist entries: "Robert Fripp", "Brian Eno" and "Fripp & Eno". When I play such an album, eg "The Equatorial Stars", it would be nice if the Album Artist (or Band!) were listed as the main artist, rather than a list of involved artists. The involved artists can be discovered and browsed from the song info.

Phil

slimpy
2005-12-30, 02:14
Title: Drum Rock
Album Artist: Bill Laswell
Artist: The Upsetters
Album: Trojan Dub Massive Chapter Two

So ALBUMARTIST isn't being directly treated as an additional artist.
Now I'm a bit lost. We may need someone who knows the slimserver code to shed some light on this.


I quite like the way it's working in general, as I can see the Album Artist and the individual artists. "Album Artist" sounds better than "Band". I have a few albums like this, such as the "Another Late Night" compilation series. The only side effect is the other involved artists being expanded out into the browse artist list.
True, BAND does not describe the role properly. But as some tagging programs use this tag as the album artist it is certainly the way to go and not too many tagger let you define fields as easily as Mp3tag does. The downside of Mp3tag is that does not distinguish between standard fields and user defined fields.


True, but I have no idea what tags are standard or custom!
See here:http://www.id3.org/id3v2.4.0-frames.txt


Perhaps it would be a good idea to add a page to the wiki that lists all of the tags that SlimServer interprets and how they are used.
I agree! If you set up the page we then need some knowleadgeable people to fill in the information.



I have another example in my music collection: I have several albums by Robert Fripp, several by Brian Eno and several by "Fripp & Eno". For the Fripp & Eno cases, I have entered two artists "Robert Fripp;Brian Eno" and ALBUMARTIST="Fripp & Eno". Thus these albums appear in the artist list under three different artist entries: "Robert Fripp", "Brian Eno" and "Fripp & Eno". When I play such an album, eg "The Equatorial Stars", it would be nice if the Album Artist (or Band!) were listed as the main artist, rather than a list of involved artists. The involved artists can be discovered and browsed from the song info.

Have you tried tagging these with ARTIST="Fripp & Eno" and ALBUMARTIST="Robert Fripp;Brian Eno" ? I wonder if they still appear under all three artist entries. If they do you would see "Fripp & Eno" as artist when playing this album. This neglects the meaning of your ALBUMARTIST tag a bit though.
But I think you need a completely different approach here then with the Another Late Night series. "Fripp & Eno" are actual performers, whereas the album artist on the ALN series has only compiled the songs on the record.

I might have time tonight to play around with some of my mp3. I happen to own one of the Another Late Night albums and I think I also have an album with two solo artists teaming up

-s.

Philip Meyer
2005-12-30, 04:21
>Now I'm a bit lost. We may need someone who knows the slimserver code
>to shed some light on this.
>
It's not just me then!

>True, BAND does not describe the role properly.
>
I don't like the way it is displayed on the Squeezebox as "BAND/Orchestra: ...", which is also incorrect if the album artist is not a band or orchestra (such as a single artist - eg. Bill Laswell). Album Artist looks so much cleaner.

>See here: http://www.id3.org/id3v2.4.0-frames.txt
>
Thanks.

>> Perhaps it would be a good idea to add a page to the wiki that lists all
>> of the tags that SlimServer interprets and how they are used.
>I agree! If you set up the page we then need some knowleadgeable people
>to fill in the information.
>
Okay, I'll set up a page today at some point.

I think it will be useful to have a table that maps SlimServer fields to file tags (one-to-many - also need to cover all possible formats, ID3, OGG, etc), with a description of what SlimServer does with each of the tags (maybe what prefs options affect the way the tag is interpreted). That will be a good starting point - might need to indicate SlimServer version for some items though.

>Have you tried tagging these with ARTIST="Fripp & Eno" and
>ALBUMARTIST="Robert Fripp;Brian Eno" ?
>
I haven't tried this - I have ARTISTSORT to match my ARTIST tag, so for example, ARTIST="Robert Fripp;Brian Eno" and ARTISTSORT="Fripp, Robert;Eno, Brian". If I switch the meaning of ARTIST and ALBUMARTIST, I won't be able to apply the correct artist sorting info.

>I might have time tonight to play around with some of my mp3. I happen
>to own one of the Another Late Night albums and I think I also have an
>album with two solo artists teaming up
>
Thanks. I've spent a lot of time correcting tags in things that I ripped a long time ago. As I have a large library, it's taking a while so I concentrated on the basics ;) But now most of the tags are generally entered, I'm going back over some of the more interesting albums, tidying them up even better - compilation albums, adding sort tags, etc.

Phil