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Cleve
2005-12-20, 22:57
I tend to leave my stereo on while I'm gone, as I like some music playing in the background when I return home.

As usual, today, I had my Squeezebox 3 playing the ambient station "Bluemars" on Squeezenetwork when I left for an appointment. The volume was set to maybe 60-70 db of sound level. Basically, background or just above background. My McIntosh amp was only producing about 1/10th of a watt or less.

When I returned today, I could hear a roar from outside my house. So I hurriedly went inside - One channel of my McIntosh amp had the meter holding steady at nearly 200 watts, and the other channel has a steady 10 watts. The noise was deafening - it wasn't music - it was like white noise with bass mixed in.

I thought at first my old Sansui receiver that's subbing for my pre-amp (while my McIntosh is getting a tuneup) had gone on the fritz. A quick check of other functions (AM, FM, phono, etc) revealed that the source of the sonic bedlam was the Squeezebox itself. Changing stations didn't stop the sound, nor did raising or lowering the volume control.

I tried powering the unit on and off with the remote. The noise did not go away. I had been listening via analog connection, so I kicked my HT decoder on. There was no output whatsoever from the unit's digital co-ax output. Yet the analog outputs were still blasting out the white noise.

So I unplugged the Squeezebox, and replugged it in a few minutes later. Mysteriously, the sound on the Squeezebox returned to normal. That was about 6 pm - I've had the unit playing continuously since then - it's been performing normally.

Do I have a defective Squeezebox? Does it need to be repaired or replaced?? I really don't trust it now, and I definitely WON'T leave it on while I'm out ever again. I'm afraid of damaging my almost irreplaceable Klipsch CF-4s.

I

jonheal
2005-12-21, 05:45
The evidence that there is a potentially dangerous (for the rest of your system) bug in the SqueezeBox is becoming a bit more than anecdotal.

http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=18818

In our litigious society, something like this could cause real problems for the company.

seanadams
2005-12-21, 05:52
The CPU is getting out-of-sync with the DAC and s/pdif interfaces - it's unclear why at this point as we've identified no way to reproduce this, or any unit that's done it more than once. Your call if you want to send it in for replacement - there isn't enough data on this to advise yet.

jonheal
2005-12-21, 06:05
The CPU is getting out-of-sync with the DAC and s/pdif interfaces - it's unclear why at this point as we've identified no way to reproduce this, or any unit that's done it more than once. Your call if you want to send it in for replacement - there isn't enough data on this to advise yet.

It's unfortunate that a problem like this that occurs so infrequently as to be very difficult to address also happens to be so incredibly, horribly nasty. Murphy's Law at work, I guess. :-(

max.spicer
2005-12-21, 06:06
You've said before that you don't recommend connecting a squeezebox directly to an amp. I think I must have misunderstood this. I have both my squeezeboxes connected to my integrated amp via analog interconnects. How else am I meant to connect them, short of buying pre-amps.

I've never had any such problem with my squeezeboxes, by the way.

Max


The CPU is getting out-of-sync with the DAC and s/pdif interfaces - it's unclear why at this point as we've identified no way to reproduce this, or any unit that's done it more than once. Your call if you want to send it in for replacement - there isn't enough data on this to advise yet.

seanadams
2005-12-21, 06:14
Using the preamp volume control should give a good additional degree of safety as this will limit the output level in the DAC itself - it will also give the main volume control are more useable range. Still it's bad practice in any system to feed an amp that can overpower the speakers with no analog limiting (not to deny the nastiness of outputting white noise).

jonheal
2005-12-21, 06:24
Using the preamp volume control should give a good additional degree of safety as this will limit the output level in the DAC itself - it will also give the main volume control are more useable range. Still it's bad practice in any system to feed an amp that can overpower the speakers with no analog limiting (not to deny the nastiness of outputting white noise).

You're talking about the preamp volume control WITHIN the SqueezeBox, correct?

My SqueezeBox is sitting, wrapped, under the Christmas tree, so I can't physically play with it yet, but once I open it up and set it up, I want to plug the SqueezeBox's analog outputs directly into my old ADCOM GFA-535.

Sean (or someone), can you please tell me where I find the SqueezeBox's Preamp Volume Control setting? Thanks.

mflint
2005-12-21, 07:42
Sean (or someone), can you please tell me where I find the SqueezeBox's Preamp Volume Control setting? Thanks.
Sean covered it in this post:
http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?p=55632

fuzzyT
2005-12-21, 09:02
mflint wrote:
> jonheal Wrote:
>
>>Sean (or someone), can you please tell me where I find the SqueezeBox's
>>Preamp Volume Control setting? Thanks.
>
> Sean covered it in this post:
> http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?p=55632

it is unclear to me as to whether using the SB's Preamp Volume Control
setting would actually result in signal attenuation when the SB
experiencing this error condition. i would suspect that it would not.

to clarify a bit: i believe that what sean is saying is that it may be
unwise to directly feed the analog outs of the SB directly into the
unattenuated inputs of a _power_ amplifier. particularly if that power
amplifier, running at full output, is capable driving the connected
speakers to destruction.

feeding the outputs into a _pre_ amplifier (or the pre-amplifier section
of an integrated amp or reciever) that has an analog volume control is
safer. this because, unless the analog volume control is set to max
volume, it will act as an attenuator to the high-output signal of a
runaway source component.

--rt

Neil Cameron
2005-12-21, 09:03
I get this with my SB2; but only occasionally and only when Synched with
SoftSqueeze.

--
Neil


"Cleve"
<Cleve.20dlyb (AT) no-mx (DOT) forums.slimdevices.com>
wrote in message news:Cleve.20dlyb (AT) no-mx (DOT) forums.slimdevices.com...
>
> I tend to leave my stereo on while I'm gone, as I like some music
> playing in the background when I return home.
>
> As usual, today, I had my Squeezebox 3 playing the ambient station
> "Bluemars" on Squeezenetwork when I left for an appointment. The
> volume was set to maybe 60-70 db of sound level. Basically, background
> or just above background. My McIntosh amp was only producing about
> 1/10th of a watt or less.
>
> When I returned today, I could hear a roar from outside my house. So I
> hurriedly went inside - One channel of my McIntosh amp had the meter
> holding steady at nearly 200 watts, and the other channel has a steady
> 10 watts. The noise was deafening - it wasn't music - it was like
> white noise with bass mixed in.
>
> I thought at first my old Sansui receiver that's subbing for my pre-amp
> (while my McIntosh is getting a tuneup) had gone on the fritz. A quick
> check of other functions (AM, FM, phono, etc) revealed that the source
> of the sonic bedlam was the Squeezebox itself. Changing stations
> didn't stop the sound, nor did raising or lowering the volume control.
>
>
> I tried powering the unit on and off with the remote. The noise did
> not go away. I had been listening via analog connection, so I kicked
> my HT decoder on. There was no output whatsoever from the unit's
> digital co-ax output. Yet the analog outputs were still blasting out
> the white noise.
>
> So I unplugged the Squeezebox, and replugged it in a few minutes later.
> Mysteriously, the sound on the Squeezebox returned to normal. That was
> about 6 pm - I've had the unit playing continuously since then - it's
> been performing normally.
>
> Do I have a defective Squeezebox? Does it need to be repaired or
> replaced?? I really don't trust it now, and I definitely WON'T leave
> it on while I'm out ever again. I'm afraid of damaging my almost
> irreplaceable Klipsch CF-4s.
>
> I
>
>
> --
> Cleve
>
> Two-channel system;
>
> McIntosh MC2205 amplifier
> McIntosh MAC4100 receiver
> Klipsch CF-4 speakers
> Denon DR-M3 Cassette Deck
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Cleve's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2048
> View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=19309

Cleve
2005-12-21, 09:10
The CPU is getting out-of-sync with the DAC and s/pdif interfaces - it's unclear why at this point as we've identified no way to reproduce this, or any unit that's done it more than once. Your call if you want to send it in for replacement - there isn't enough data on this to advise yet.

Sean, thanks for your reply.

I followed the advice on the other thread (http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=18818 ) disconnected the power supply, and powered back on while holding the "1" key on the remote. The Squeezebox display indicated the Xilinix chip was being reset.

She's been on good behavior since the incident. If it occurs again, I'll contact you for a replacement. I played a number of sonically rigorous songs last night at very high wattages to test for speaker damage - it doesn't appear that any occured. So I guess it's no harm, no foul, this time around.

max.spicer
2005-12-21, 10:50
Thank you. That's the clarification I was hoping for. I couldn't really see how the squeezebox could suddenly make my integrated amp go so loud that it would start to damage things. I don't think I ever turn my amp up to even the half way point, so I'm hoping I'm in no danger.

Max


mflint wrote:
> jonheal Wrote:
>
>>Sean (or someone), can you please tell me where I find the SqueezeBox's
>>Preamp Volume Control setting? Thanks.
>
> Sean covered it in this post:
> http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?p=55632

it is unclear to me as to whether using the SB's Preamp Volume Control
setting would actually result in signal attenuation when the SB
experiencing this error condition. i would suspect that it would not.

to clarify a bit: i believe that what sean is saying is that it may be
unwise to directly feed the analog outs of the SB directly into the
unattenuated inputs of a _power_ amplifier. particularly if that power
amplifier, running at full output, is capable driving the connected
speakers to destruction.

feeding the outputs into a _pre_ amplifier (or the pre-amplifier section
of an integrated amp or reciever) that has an analog volume control is
safer. this because, unless the analog volume control is set to max
volume, it will act as an attenuator to the high-output signal of a
runaway source component.

--rt

Cleve
2005-12-21, 11:13
Unfortunately, with my older vintage gear, I had really enjoyed the convenience of the remote control volume control. To use this, I had turned the gain up on my preamp so that if the volume on the Squeezebox was maxed, I'd be using nearly all the 200 watt per channel output of my McIntosh 2205 power amp.

Therefore, if the Squeezebox has this electronic brain fart, the potential for equipment damage still exists. The only work-around - defeat the SB3 volume control and go back to the old fashioned way of getting up, walking over, and turning up/down the volume.



Thank you. That's the clarification I was hoping for. I couldn't really see how the squeezebox could suddenly make my integrated amp go so loud that it would start to damage things. I don't think I ever turn my amp up to even the half way point, so I'm hoping I'm in no danger.

Max

jonheal
2005-12-21, 11:52
Unfortunately, with my older vintage gear, I had really enjoyed the convenience of the remote control volume control. To use this, I had turned the gain up on my preamp so that if the volume on the Squeezebox was maxed, I'd be using nearly all the 200 watt per channel output of my McIntosh 2205 power amp.

Therefore, if the Squeezebox has this electronic brain fart, the potential for equipment damage still exists. The only work-around - defeat the SB3 volume control and go back to the old fashioned way of getting up, walking over, and turning up/down the volume.

I too have "vintage" equipment, and I was looking forward to taking advantage of the SB3's volume control, hooking the SB3 directly to my ADCOM amp. In the interest of safety, I guess I'll insert the ADCOM preamp in between them and then get up off my arse and turn the knob when the volume needs adjusting.

The "white noise" issue may crop up only one in a million times, but with my luck, I'd be the guy to have an eye put out by flying tweeter fragments.

fuzzyT
2005-12-21, 12:47
jonheal wrote:
> Cleve Wrote:
>
>>Therefore, if the Squeezebox has this electronic brain fart, the
>>potential for equipment damage still exists. The only work-around -
>>defeat the SB3 volume control and go back to the old fashioned way of
>>getting up, walking over, and turning up/down the volume.
>
> I too have "vintage" equipment, and I was looking forward to taking
> advantage of the SB3's volume control, hooking the SB3 directly to my
> ADCOM amp.

You may have another work-around.

Slot the preamp-analog volume control back into the chain. Set the
analog volume attenuation so that the SB max output corresponds to the
loudest, SAFE power amp output that you would ever want. This is liable
to be at least a few dB less than wide open throttle. Then use SB
digital volume control for remote level adjustment.

It's another device in the signal chain, but would give some margin of
safety.

--rt

jonheal
2005-12-21, 13:16
jonheal wrote:
> Cleve Wrote:
>
>>Therefore, if the Squeezebox has this electronic brain fart, the
>>potential for equipment damage still exists. The only work-around -
>>defeat the SB3 volume control and go back to the old fashioned way of
>>getting up, walking over, and turning up/down the volume.
>
> I too have "vintage" equipment, and I was looking forward to taking
> advantage of the SB3's volume control, hooking the SB3 directly to my
> ADCOM amp.

You may have another work-around.

Slot the preamp-analog volume control back into the chain. Set the
analog volume attenuation so that the SB max output corresponds to the
loudest, SAFE power amp output that you would ever want. This is liable
to be at least a few dB less than wide open throttle. Then use SB
digital volume control for remote level adjustment.

It's another device in the signal chain, but would give some margin of
safety.

--rt

This "white noise" issue has occurred so infrequently, I'm wondering if it is an established fact that the SB3's Preamp Volume Control will indeed limit the noise level if this problem occurs? If so, then one can assume that setting the Preamp Volume Control at a level so that when the SB3's "digital" volume is at full blast, the output from the SB3 to the power amplifier drives the speakers at a tolerable level. Of course this will also lower the effective signal to noise ratio of both the SB3 and the power amplifier. Enough to matter? Who knows? Like I said, mine's still wrapped up under the tree.

fuzzyT
2005-12-21, 13:35
jonheal wrote:

> This "white noise" issue has occurred so infrequently, I'm wondering if
> it is an established fact that the SB3's Preamp Volume Control will
> indeed limit the noise level if this problem occurs?

Hard to know. Would need to be able to test. As this isn't yet a
reproducible condition, it remains unknown.

Given that when this condition occurs the SB output stage is completely
sideways, I'd guess that the attenuation is probably is not functioning
at this point. I wouldn't want to bet my speakers on it anyway.

--rt

seanadams
2005-12-21, 15:49
This "white noise" issue has occurred so infrequently, I'm wondering if it is an established fact that the SB3's Preamp Volume Control will indeed limit the noise level if this problem occurs?


I'm 99.9% certain it will, because this is reported to affect both the DAC and s/pdif interfaces, meaning that the DAC is not the problem. Since the preamp control is a register in the DAC itself, it shouldn't matter if it's getting white noise, pink noise, or Britney Spears, it would all be attenuated.

seanadams
2005-12-21, 18:05
Cleve can you tell me if your playlist had a mix of 44.1 and 48 KHz tracks?

Michaelwagner
2005-12-21, 20:48
i believe that what sean is saying is that it may be unwise to directly feed the analog outs of the SB directly into the unattenuated inputs of a _power_ amplifier. particularly if that power amplifier, running at full output, is capable driving the connected speakers to destruction.
This is good advice, SB or any other sound source.

Michaelwagner
2005-12-21, 20:52
There's a difference?

Cleve
2005-12-22, 22:46
Cleve can you tell me if your playlist had a mix of 44.1 and 48 KHz tracks?

Sean, I'm sorry, I don't know. I had been listening to an internet radio station. Not sure whether they were 44.1 or 48 khz tracks.

Radar442
2005-12-28, 08:07
Sean, I'm sorry, I don't know. I had been listening to an internet radio station. Not sure whether they were 44.1 or 48 khz tracks.

I experienced the same problem yesterday. The device was connected to a fairly basic HiFi system using the RCA output and suddenly the audio turned to pulsating white noise. I leapt from my seat and hastily pulled the power cord from it.
Chris.

deksawyer
2005-12-28, 08:36
This has also happened to me once, whilst listening to web radio, via Alien BBC.

Pulsating noise which was way, way louder than the actual output from the BBC source. lasted about 3-4 secs then went back to normal.

SB2 connected to Denon micro system via analogue RCA connectors, with the SB2 volume set to just above half way.

This is my 3rd SB2 as the others simply died after 3 months or so of light use, so I was a bit worried and have to say, I'm not using it as much as I should for fear of 'bricking' it again!

D.

Michaelwagner
2005-12-28, 09:01
If they died after 3 months, you should send them back and see if the slim guys can perform an autopsy.

deksawyer
2005-12-28, 16:14
What do you think I did - kept them and just bought new ones...?? ;-]

I sent them back to the vendor I purchased from in the UK, who I assume sent them back to the UK distributor and back to Slim Devices themselves, eventually.

If only I'd had the sense to take a note of the serial #'s before sending back....

D.

Jess Askey
2005-12-28, 18:17
This happened to me on my SB2 connected to my SlimServer Locally. My
collection is all MP3's and on a wired LAN. I couldn't say what song it
was unfortunately as I too, lept from my chair and dove for the power.


Radar442 wrote:

>Cleve Wrote:
>
>
>>Sean, I'm sorry, I don't know. I had been listening to an internet
>>radio station. Not sure whether they were 44.1 or 48 khz tracks.
>>
>>
>
>I experienced the same problem yesterday. The device was connected to a
>fairly basic HiFi system using the RCA output and suddenly the audio
>turned to pulsating white noise. I leapt from my seat and hastily
>pulled the power cord from it.
>Chris.
>
>
>
>

JJP
2005-12-28, 23:45
me too..using AlienBBC. the white noise repeated every 3mins or so.

I set a debug going which captured nothing of note as far as I can tell.

If this happens again, any suggestions as to which debug settings I should log?

JP

mftech
2006-01-04, 18:27
This problem occur in my set-up too:
SB3 SPDIF Coax Out»Canare Imp, transformer
»Merging Sphinx DAC AES IN»
Sphinx AES Out
»DCX 2496 Crossover»Zacom Console »power amp.

Strangely the headphone output is OK,
I must turn off the Sphinx DAC to get rid of the problem.

This is the generated log just before the problem occur,
I`m not sure if this is related but time wise this is when the problem occur.

Very annoying problem.

2006-01-04 20:18:07.7308 Setting prefs currentSong equal to 6
2006-01-04 20:18:07.8306 processing headers for direct streaming
2006-01-04 20:18:07.8328 $VAR1 = 'HTTP/1.0 200 OK
Date: Thu, 05 Jan 2006 01:18:07 GMT
Server: SlimServer (6.2.1 - 5194)
Connection: close
Content-Type: audio/mpeg

';
2006-01-04 20:18:07.8350 Backtrace:

frame 0: Slim::Player::Squeezebox2::directHeaders (/PerlApp/Slim/Networking/Slimproto.pm line 413)
frame 1: Slim::Networking::Slimproto::process_slimproto_fra me (/PerlApp/Slim/Networking/Slimproto.pm line 244)
frame 2: Slim::Networking::Slimproto::client_readable (/PerlApp/Slim/Networking/Select.pm line 111)
frame 3: Slim::Networking::Select::select (slimserver.pl line 634)
frame 4: main::idle (slimserver.pl line 38)
frame 5: PerlSvc::Startup (perlsvc.pl line 1481)
frame 6: PerlSvc::_startup (slimserver.pl line 0)
frame 7: (eval) (slimserver.pl line 0)

jonheal
2006-02-23, 10:05
Anecdotal report:

Yesterday, I heard a short burst of "white noise" as I was browsing around Live365 stations. Some Live365 stations defintely sound better than others (quality-wise), so I would not be surprised if the bitrate was changing between stations as I was browsing. I think I remember reading the postulation that the DAC may get confused when switching bit rates.

My SqueezeBox is connected to the preamp via the analog outputs.

Denjo
2007-05-25, 04:00
I was listening to internet radio and was switching from one station to another when I heard the music suddenly blast to deafening levels. It was louder on my right channel, the sound was like distorted music when you crank the volume real loud. The sound lasted about 2 to 5 econds before I managed to reach for the preamp volume. The SB3 was at maximum volume. SB3 was digital out feeding an external DAC (Altmann Attraction DAC). I hope I caused no damage to my speakers!

Dennis

James_B
2007-06-15, 09:17
Hi

Just had a similar experience to Dennis with my new (and refurbished) SB3 attached via the headphone socket to Audio Engine 5s (a temporary measure..). I was flicking through radio stations and then suddenly CRUNCH.

Rather disturbingly I turned the SB3 and speakers back on and the noise persisted until i unplugged. It did eventually clear but gave me quite a scare.

This is my second SB3 and my other has never done this.

Does anyone have a better idea yet about what is causing it?


Cheers

James

shadowboxer
2007-06-15, 09:52
I don't have real information, but also recently had this problem. Very interesting how it occurred. I have four SB3s. We had a thunderstorm, several power surges, a power outage for a while. Only one of my four SBs is attached to a UPC. The other three when powered on ALL displayed this outpu of high volume white noise, which was fixed with SB reboot. Two of these are hooked by the minijack output to Klipsch powered sub computer systems and the third attached to Audioengine 5s.

Could this phenomenon be related to power surges affecting the circuitry of the SB?

-dale

neoaddix
2007-06-24, 07:17
I've read the messages about the (seemingly) occuring white noise problems. I have a slightly different problem but very reproducable:

When I turn of my SB and leave my amp on I get the white noise, always!

Very irritating as you might understand. It started to occur a couple of months ago (haven't had the problem in the first half year). My SB is connected through optical S/PDIF into the MD input of my amp.

Does anyone have a solution for this, or might this help out in the search for the source of the white noise problems? (since I can reproduce).

Cheers

svtcontour
2007-10-06, 20:57
This happened to me yet again (last time was about 3 months ago) and again it happened to both my units. Its very frustrating. Its getting to the point where I dont trust the units and would not recommend them to anyone as they can damage speakers and or hearing if it suddenly blasts.

I think there are enough people experiencing this issue that it really needs to be solved.