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View Full Version : Synchronization Delay? (and more!)



pottymouth
2005-12-02, 22:47
So I've always known this feature was there, but never bothered to try it. Now I'm throwing a party and would like to have my slimp3 going along with another room full of music powered by an ibook laptop running either itunes playing a stream or softsqueeze. I've got it all set up now and there's an unacceptable delay in the audio between the two rooms. So I come here and what do I find but a bunch of complaints (going back to '94?) noting this exact problem. I couldn't find a fix tho! Is there no fix? Would it sync properly if I had 2 hardware players or is the whole thing messed up?

So a couple more things...
I must admit, I haven't used my slimp3 in a while. Small apartment and I haven't been home much. What's up with this softsqueeze thing? It's not really an app? just some funny named java thing? Why does it open and close each time I open it before finally reopening with the little player window? Why did I have to dig into the app to find I had to open port 3483 on my firewall to connect to my server?

Also, I just upgraded my server software (from like 4.something I think). When did the web interface get keyboard shortcuts and how do I turn that off? I was trying to search for a song and when I typed a V the music stopped. At some point during my typing it started again and eventually I realized that the buttons were choosing all sorts of options in the player window. What's up with that? How could that possibly be useful if it makes all the text fields in the other window useless? Another thing that bugs me about the web interface, it seems to be a real proc hog. Using a 1.0 G4 iBook with a 1.25GB of RAM the proc usage spikes to 100% every 3 seconds as long as the slim web interface is open. Why?

I feel so torn. Like I said, I haven't used my slimp3 in a while but I have been recommending the product for years. Now I come back to it and find that the whole thing has fallen apart! What's going on? : (

Oh, btw, I'm using the old school slimp3 from like 2002 or so (wired, of course). Could old hardware be the root of all my troubles?

Other network info: Slimserver 6.2.1 running on a Dual 1.8 G5 W/2GB RAM and OS X 10.4 serving ~28000 MP3s to a half dozen modern-ish Macs running various flavors of 10.3 and 10.4 and I've never had any other data transfer problems via wire or wireless.

Thanks!

Dan Sully
2005-12-02, 22:54
* pottymouth shaped the electrons to say...

>So I've always known this feature was there, but never bothered to try
>it. Now I'm throwing a party and would like to have my slimp3 going
>along with another room full of music powered by an ibook laptop
>running either itunes playing a stream or softsqueeze. I've got it all
>set up now and there's an unacceptable delay in the audio between the
>two rooms. So I come here and what do I find but a bunch of complaints
>(going back to '94?) noting this exact problem. I couldn't find a fix
>tho! Is there no fix? Would it sync properly if I had 2 hardware
>players or is the whole thing messed up?

Syncing between Softsqueeze and hardware players just won't work well.

There are different buffers involved, and the Java Sound API, which can cause delays.

-D
--
I'm really looking forward to this hangover.

Maditude
2005-12-02, 23:30
> Syncing between Softsqueeze and hardware players just won't work
> well.

I've noticed it never quite works with a wired and a wireless (both SB2's), playing CBR 192kbps mp3's. :-(

Just upgraded from 6.1.1, to 6.2.1 today to see if it was any better, and it's not -- they're not off by much, but it's really jarring if you are in a spot where you can hear both. Letting it go for a couple of songs didn't help any, either.

Richie
2005-12-02, 23:45
> tho! Is there no fix? Would it sync properly if I had 2 hardware
> players or is the whole thing messed up?

2 SB2s work very well when synced together. I've never heard them get
out of sync. The only downside is the very small gaps at the start of
every track when the two players resync. Admittedly this is mainly
noticeable on albums that have no gaps between the tracks, although
some tracks with no gap at the start do suffer as well. At a guess,
90% of tracks are fine.

Richard

snarlydwarf
2005-12-03, 00:01
I've noticed it never quite works with a wired and a wireless (both SB2's), playing CBR 192kbps mp3's. :-(


Weird, it works fine for me, and that's exactly my setup... It can get slightly out of sync sometimes but it's resynced each song.

Dave2
2005-12-03, 00:37
2 SB2s work very well when synced together. I've never heard them get
out of sync. The only downside is the very small gaps at the start of
every track when the two players resync. Admittedly this is mainly
noticeable on albums that have no gaps between the tracks, although
some tracks with no gap at the start do suffer as well. At a guess,
90% of tracks are fine.

Richard

Richard -- So two synched hardware players can't do Flac gapless?

Dave

Richie
2005-12-03, 00:46
> Richard -- So two synched hardware players can't do Flac gapless?
>
> Dave

Not at the moment. It's a known bug, although I can't find the number
at the moment. I'm sure Slim will get round to it fixing it, it's just
a matter of priorities (and from what I've read it may not be a simple
task).

Richard

max.spicer
2005-12-03, 05:37
I believe that fixing it would require implementing a new sync method. Currently each player stops at the start of each new track and waits until it is given the go by the server. The server only says go when it knows that every player in the sync group has it's buffer filled to a certain amount. Without the gap in between tracks, synchronisation could potentially get more and more out.

Max


> Richard -- So two synched hardware players can't do Flac gapless?
>
> Dave

Not at the moment. It's a known bug, although I can't find the number
at the moment. I'm sure Slim will get round to it fixing it, it's just
a matter of priorities (and from what I've read it may not be a simple
task).

Richard

stinkingpig
2005-12-03, 09:50
>
>> Syncing between Softsqueeze and hardware players just won't work
>> well.
>
> I've noticed it never quite works with a wired and a wireless (both
> SB2's), playing CBR 192kbps mp3's. :-(
>
> Just upgraded from 6.1.1, to 6.2.1 today to see if it was any better,
> and it's not -- they're not off by much, but it's really jarring if you
> are in a spot where you can hear both. Letting it go for a couple of
> songs didn't help any, either.
>

there are times when it won't work with two wired players -- I have an SBG
and an SB2. I usually synchronize and it usually works, but it's very
jarring to have it get out of sync. Sometimes I can point to the problem,
like a long song or radio stream, but sometimes it's just off right from
the get-go. Pausing and unpausing doesn't help, restarting the song
sometimes helps, but it's never predictable.

slimserver-2005_12_01-1, but this has been more or less true since 4.x.
I've never had two players of the same generation (can't afford to upgrade
both at once), but I'd expected getting away from SliMP3's dinky buffer to
solve anything buffer related. I haven't opened a bug because it's so
nebulous and unpredictable, but I have mentioned it several times and
asked for help with debugging.
--
Jack At Monkeynoodle.Org: It's A Scientific Venture...
"Believe what you're told; there'd be chaos if everyone thought for
themselves." -- Top Dog hotdog stand, Berkeley, CA

radish
2005-12-03, 10:21
When did the web interface get keyboard shortcuts and how do I turn that off?
I've never seen a keyboard shortcut on a webpage, certainly not the Slimserver one. Which skin are you using? Browser?


It's not really an app? just some funny named java thing?
It's an app. Just happens to be written in Java.


Why did I have to dig into the app to find I had to open port 3483 on my firewall to connect to my server?
I don't know. Maybe because you neglected to read the documentation?


Another thing that bugs me about the web interface, it seems to be a real proc hog. Using a 1.0 G4 iBook with a 1.25GB of RAM the proc usage spikes to 100% every 3 seconds as long as the slim web interface is open. Why?
Because it's refreshing the page. Turn it off if you want.

pottymouth
2005-12-03, 10:31
Thanks all.

How about the keyboard shortcut thing? It only seems to be a problem when I'm using the default web interface, which is the one I like :(. Using others, it seems that as long as the cursor is actually in a text field it doesn't affect the playing. This is still a semi problem tho. I don't want the keyboard to affect what's playing at all. I don't want the music to stop just because I missed the text field and started typing and happened to hit a V or whatever.

Is there any way to turn this off entirely?

snarlydwarf
2005-12-03, 10:57
Thanks all.

How about the keyboard shortcut thing? It only seems to be a problem when I'm using the default web interface, which is the one I like :(. Using others, it seems that as long as the cursor is actually in a text field it doesn't affect the playing. This is still a semi problem tho. I don't want the keyboard to affect what's playing at all. I don't want the music to stop just because I missed the text field and started typing and happened to hit a V or whatever.

Is there any way to turn this off entirely?

I just switched from Fishbone to Default and I don't have any shortcuts on the keyboard... there's nothing there that does that... is your browser or a plugin doing this?

Softsqueeze does have keyboard shortcuts, supposedly the same or similar to what Winamp uses, but, I never use Winamp so dunno if that's true. I know I get annoyed when I use Softsqueeze at work and accidentally focus the wrong window and start doing random stuff with the stream...

But the web page doesn't have any such functionality, especially not in the Default skin which is pretty plain and simple.

pottymouth
2005-12-03, 11:08
I've never seen a keyboard shortcut on a webpage, certainly not the Slimserver one. Which skin are you using? Browser?
The name is Default. It's definitely got shortcuts. The others, I can't tell. It could be a cache thing. I have to keep emptying the cache to get other skins to load properly and when they do, they sometimes have shortcuts and sometimes don't. Hard to tell. It never seems to do the same thing twice.


It's an app. Just happens to be written in Java.
Well yeah, but I've seen java apps before and they don't work at all like that. Meh. I'm not a programmer. Whatever.


I don't know. Maybe because you neglected to read the documentation?
Maybe I was tired. Maybe it wasn't where I figured it would be. I saw no documentation last night. Thanks buddy.


Because it's refreshing the page. Turn it off if you want.
It's set to refresh every 30 seconds. Not 3.

pottymouth
2005-12-03, 11:14
I just switched from Fishbone to Default and I don't have any shortcuts on the keyboard... there's nothing there that does that... is your browser or a plugin doing this?

Softsqueeze does have keyboard shortcuts, supposedly the same or similar to what Winamp uses, but, I never use Winamp so dunno if that's true. I know I get annoyed when I use Softsqueeze at work and accidentally focus the wrong window and start doing random stuff with the stream...

But the web page doesn't have any such functionality, especially not in the Default skin which is pretty plain and simple.

It's doing it in Firefox and Safari on multiple machines. and I've not installed any plugins that would do this.

Now I'm trying to test and find all the shortcuts it won't stop playing to the softsqueeze player that I've told it to forget! AAARRRRRGGG!! It won't play to my actual player! lol. This is driving me nuts.

pottymouth
2005-12-03, 11:18
HA! Now the player's frozen and SlimServer's not responding. I guess I'll be iTunesing the party tonight and I'll just figure this all out later. Thanks for listening.

Richie
2005-12-03, 11:22
> It's doing it in Firefox and Safari on multiple machines. and I've not
> installed any plugins that would do this.

I've just tried the default skin in Firefox and it doesn't respond to
any keypresses unless I tab to a button and hit enter.

Richard

thespaugh
2005-12-03, 12:04
> Richard -- So two synched hardware players can't do Flac gapless?
>
> Dave

Not at the moment. It's a known bug, although I can't find the number
at the moment. I'm sure Slim will get round to it fixing it, it's just
a matter of priorities (and from what I've read it may not be a simple
task).

Richard

I couldn't find the number either - If anyone finds it please post - I'd like to vote for this.

kdf
2005-12-03, 12:29
On 3-Dec-05, at 11:04 AM, thespaugh wrote:

>
> Richie Wrote:
>>> Richard -- So two synched hardware players can't do Flac gapless?
>>>
>>> Dave
>>
>> Not at the moment. It's a known bug, although I can't find the number
>> at the moment. I'm sure Slim will get round to it fixing it, it's just
>> a matter of priorities (and from what I've read it may not be a simple
>> task).
>>
>> Richard
>
> I couldn't find the number either - If anyone finds it please post -
> I'd like to vote for this.
>
search for sync, and vote for the network clock. that is the solution
for several requests like this one.
-k

Dave2
2005-12-03, 12:54
On 3-Dec-05, at 11:04 AM, thespaugh wrote:


>>> Richard -- So two synched hardware players can't do Flac gapless?
>>>
>>> Dave
>>
>> Not at the moment. It's a known bug, although I can't find the number
>> at the moment. I'm sure Slim will get round to it fixing it, it's just
>> a matter of priorities (and from what I've read it may not be a simple
>> task).
>>
>> Richard
>
> I couldn't find the number either - If anyone finds it please post -
> I'd like to vote for this.
>
search for sync, and vote for the network clock. that is the solution
for several requests like this one.
-k

Maybe that's http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=259.

See also http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=598
and, possibly, http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=529.

Dave

kdf
2005-12-03, 13:06
On 3-Dec-05, at 11:54 AM, Dave2 wrote:
>>
>
> Maybe that's http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=259.
>
yup, you found it :)

The rest all depend on this one, really. Creating new reports beyond
what is there might make you feel more important, but would dilute the
vote.
However, that's just my recommendation. What you end up doing is up to
you.
-kdf

danco
2005-12-03, 14:02
On 3/12/05 at 09:21 -0800, radish wrote
> > Another thing that bugs me about the web interface, it seems to be a
>> real proc hog. Using a 1.0 G4 iBook with a 1.25GB of RAM the proc usage
>> spikes to 100% every 3 seconds as long as the slim web interface is
>> open. Why?
>Because it's refreshing the page. Turn it off if you want.

Does this happen with all browsers, I wonder, or is it specifically a
Safari issue.

There seems to be no good reason why refreshing a page should take
100% CPU usage even for a small amount of time.
--
Daniel Cohen

radish
2005-12-03, 14:28
The name is Default. It's definitely got shortcuts. The others, I can't tell. It could be a cache thing. I have to keep emptying the cache to get other skins to load properly and when they do, they sometimes have shortcuts and sometimes don't. Hard to tell. It never seems to do the same thing twice.
It doesn't have shortcuts - really it doesn't. I'd to try and help you out, but I'd need a little more help. Can you give an exact sequence of events which cause an issue? I have a Mac here I can try it on also. I'm guessing it's something weird in your browser. I just loaded up Default here and hammered away for 30 seconds - nothing whatsoever happened.



It's set to refresh every 30 seconds. Not 3.
Then that's another thing which seems weird with your browser.