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skiziks
2005-11-21, 08:45
Does Slimserver connect to Apple's DAAP the way the Roku Soundbridge does allowing iTunes to act as the "music server" (including iTunes internet radio)?

Or does the Slimserver build its own music library/directory service?

Thanks.

DrNic
2005-11-21, 08:50
Does Slimserver connect to Apple's DAAP the way the Roku Soundbridge does allowing iTunes to act as the "music server" (including iTunes internet radio)?

Or does the Slimserver build its own music library/directory service?

Thanks.

SLimserver uses its own database. It is able to use the XML file from itunes if you like using itunes for your music management. There are also a few plugins that allow, updates back to itunes etc.

Nic

skiziks
2005-11-21, 09:00
Building another database in Slimserver seems redundant especially since DAAP makes it redundant.

"xml"? I'm not a programmer, I'm a "user". Seems Slim Devices might be more oriented towards the one and not the other.


Footnote:
After doing a search here on "DAAP", I noticed in an earlier post (May '05) "Dean" the CTO here suggested they were working with Apple to license DAAP.

So. . . . ?

DrNic
2005-11-21, 09:19
Building another database in Slimserver seems redundant especially since DAAP makes it redundant.

"xml"? I'm not a programmer, I'm a "user". Seems Slim Devices might be more oriented towards the one and not the other.


Footnote:
After doing a search here on "DAAP", I noticed in an earlier post (May '05) "Dean" the CTO here suggested they were working with Apple to license DAAP.

So. . . . ?

Hey easy there!
I'm not a programmer either... but XML is kinda mainstream for most, *you* don't need to know what it is or what it does. I was just pointing out that was how SS uses itunes.

One could argue that Slimserver makes DAAP redundant? Depends which way you baste your turkey, no?

Nic

skiziks
2005-11-21, 10:05
Nic,

Thanks for your feedback. I have a fundamental understanding of xml. xml certainly limits the potential for future software incompatability. It does not create a "seamless" user experience.

If Slimserver does everything iTunes does, including synching iPods, I'll baste another way. But I suspect that won't happen soon, leaving me with the desire for SD to support DAAP and for my user experience to continue to be inside iTunes.

That's quite the knee.

radish
2005-11-21, 10:29
I think you misunderstand. iTunes keeps all it's data in an XML file, not a database. Slimserver is able to read that file, thus making use of slimserver with iTunes seamless. The user doesn't need to know anything about XML, or even know it exists, they just check the "Use iTunes" box in setup.

As for iTunes making SlimServer redundant, there are people who don't run iTunes, and don't want to. What we have now is the best of both worlds - use it if you want, not if you don't.

skiziks
2005-11-21, 10:35
I am a little confused. It seems though that I must still use 2 interfaces to manage playlists, etc. One for Squeezebox and one for iPods. No?

DrNic
2005-11-21, 10:41
I am a little confused. It seems though that I must still use 2 interfaces to manage playlists, etc. One for Squeezebox and one for iPods. No?

Initially I used iTunes all the time. But I have converted my collection to FLAC (and hence can't use iTunes!).
I always used to make my playlists up in iTunes then these would appear in the Saved playlists of Slimserver (scanned in from the XML file - now do you see the link?).
Any new music you added via iTunes would appear in SS also.
So although you do _have_ to have Slimserver running (or else no squeezebox!) you don't have to use it really (but the web control is the dogs)

If you use iTunes to make your playlists, Smart Playlists etc then both your iPod and Squeezebox can use the same.

Hope that helps.

Nic

funkstar
2005-11-21, 11:43
If SS were to use DAAP then it would only run on platforms that had iTunes. all the Linux users would be SOL. You also wouldnęt be able to embed it into NAS boxes. Don't know how open DAAP is, but i would expect apple would be able to lock your app out any time they liked.

skiziks
2005-11-21, 11:52
Thanks Nic, this helps.

Sure would be nice to hear from SD on DAAP support though.

dean
2005-11-22, 21:38
On Nov 21, 2005, at 9:29 AM, radish wrote:

>
> I think you misunderstand. iTunes keeps all it's data in an XML file,
> not a database.
Actually, iTunes does have a database (which is stored in the "iTunes
Music Library" file. iTunes periodically exports the "iTunes Music
Library.xml" file for other programs to use. Apple itself uses this
XML file for programs like iMovie to browse your music library.

> Slimserver is able to read that file, thus making use
> of slimserver with iTunes seamless. The user doesn't need to know
> anything about XML, or even know it exists, they just check the "Use
> iTunes" box in setup.
That's right. And as a bonus, iTunes doesn't have to be running for
SlimServer to provide access to your music.

> As for iTunes making SlimServer redundant, there are people who don't
> run iTunes, and don't want to. What we have now is the best of both
> worlds - use it if you want, not if you don't.

One more thing to think about. iTunes and the DAAP protocol provide
only limited ways to access your music library. Since SlimServer
imports all the information that iTunes exports PLUS looks in the
files for additional information it can provide a richer and more
powerful interface to your music. For example, SlimServer provides a
way to access your music library and control the player via a web
browser, command line interface and a few other ways.

While it may be possible for SlimServer to use DAAP in the future,
there's not much motivation right now.

seanadams
2005-11-22, 22:32
Does Slimserver connect to Apple's DAAP the way the Roku Soundbridge does allowing iTunes to act as the "music server" (including iTunes internet radio)?

Or does the Slimserver build its own music library/directory service?

Thanks.

I think you may be looking too closely under the hood (protocols etc) instead of at the actual benefits of iTunes vs SlimServer as your music server.

iTunes doesn't integrate with our competitors' products in any useful way - you can't control the device from iTunes or anything like that. iTunes just serves the files.

Squeezebox on the other hand can be controlled from any computer in the house (albeit not through iTunes, only the lame airport express can do that).

And it provides access to all your iTunes data and playlists.

And it supports Apple Lossless.

And it supports all the non-iTunes-compatible formats you might encounter.

etc etc.

If you're not sure, just buy both and return whichever one sucks! :)

skiziks
2005-11-24, 08:45
Thanks! The fact the CEO lurks here speaks very highly for Slim Devices.

carz10
2005-11-26, 18:59
So, I purchased an express not too long after they came out, and i am somewhat pleased by its ability to stream music, easily and with decent sound quality, that said, I am more dissapoited in the things that I had hoped for it to do that it cannot, and wish I had bought a squeezebox right away.

My question:
I am an XP user, I like the iTunes interface (I dont want to here it) and would like to continue to use my Express on another stereo in the house, and was hoping that if I added a sqeezebox to my main system I could use iTunes to steam to both the Express and the Sqeezebox simultaneously. Possible??

next semi related question.
can i use the Squeezebox to stream music, while at the same time using it to connect my xbox to my wirelesss router?

If this is not posted in the right area feel free to move it about and chastise me.

DrNic
2005-11-28, 05:23
So, I purchased an express not too long after they came out, and i am somewhat pleased by its ability to stream music, easily and with decent sound quality, that said, I am more dissapoited in the things that I had hoped for it to do that it cannot, and wish I had bought a squeezebox right away.

My question:
I am an XP user, I like the iTunes interface (I dont want to here it) and would like to continue to use my Express on another stereo in the house, and was hoping that if I added a sqeezebox to my main system I could use iTunes to steam to both the Express and the Sqeezebox simultaneously. Possible??

next semi related question.
can i use the Squeezebox to stream music, while at the same time using it to connect my xbox to my wirelesss router?

If this is not posted in the right area feel free to move it about and chastise me.

Hi
Never having used an apple express thingy (but aware of most of its capabilities!) I would say that in answer to your first question is Yes, and No!
Yes you could continue to use itunes to stream to your express, but itunes does not control the squeezebox. SS can use itunes library info (see earlier posts), but it is controlled either via the remote or a web interface. So if you started playback of a tune from iTunes to your express, you would have to select a song to play on your Squeezebox yourself. Does that make sense?

For question 2, I would say that should be possible, but I don't own a squeezebox 3 (or 2 for that matter!) so can't say for sure. Someone, I'm sure, will correct me if I' wrong!

As for posting in this thread.... would probably have been better to start a new one. But I'm no policeman!

Nic

radish
2005-11-28, 08:02
can i use the Squeezebox to stream music, while at the same time using it to connect my xbox to my wirelesss router?

Yes

This is for the short message filter. La lee la le laa.

jmalcolm
2005-12-30, 21:26
I was under the impression that Slimserver could act as a DAAP server but now I think I may have misunderstood. The fact that Slimserver uses Rendezvous confused me.

There seems to be little interest in Slimserver acting as a DAAP client. As other have argued, this makes sense since Slimserver enjoys greater capabilities today than this would bring for commong DAAP servers such as iTunes.

However, I see real value in Slimserver acting as a DAAP server itself. DAAP offers much more power than the stream.mp3 interface used currently.

I run Slimserver on Linux and it would be great if clients like iTunes and Rhythmbox could connect to Slimserver via DAAP. This would allow sophisticated navigation, searching, playlists, etc from many clients on many systems without filesharing.

Is it really true that nobody else thinks this would be great?

Michaelwagner
2005-12-30, 22:50
This may be part of the problem - from the opendaap web page:

If you're making a commercial product, Apple has now started offering the DAAP protocol specification under license.

jmalcolm
2005-12-31, 13:06
Thanks Michael. I had been to the OpenDAAP page but had not picked up on that. Since Slimserver is Open Source and Slim Devices does not charge for distribution I wonder if a license would be required. Still, anything that makes it proprietary makes it less attractive.

I got daapd up and running on my Linux box and with mDNSResponder it advertises itself in both iTunes and Rhytmbox. It is suboptimal to have both daapd and Slimserver creating seperate indexes of my music collection though. Adding new music, playlists, and other things would be much nicer if better integrated.

I can also see why Slim would not want to support DAAP since DAAP/iTunes is a competing paradigm. Slimserver is certainly more capable than DAAP. As I said earlier, I see DAAP as more an alternative to stream.mp3 than to Slimserver overall.

I did not realize that the Roku stuff uses DAAP natively, since it relies on iTunes as the server. I found the mt-daap page today and they talk about it serving the Roku Soundbridge. I guess that would be another reason the Slim folks would not like it.

The Slim folks seem awesome so I hope I am not creating any ill will by pushing this topic.

What I would really like is a better way for my wife to interact with Slimserver. Driving my Squeezebox3 off Windows caused me problems and so I moved it to Linux. It has been great but the loss of iTunes integration is a bummer. It would be great if there was a client that offered local playback and easy playlist creation that supported Slimserver directly. The DAAP stuff at least allows me to fake it regarding local playback from the Slimserver library on the Linux box.

Is there a way that I can easily use something like iTunes to interact with a music collection on a Linux box running Slimserver? I can just share the filesystem but that is not really the same thing.

Perhaps I should ask that on a different thread. I am a fairly new user and still need to do a lot of playing to get things right.

Thanks again for the response.