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View Full Version : Got SB3! Love it! Few feature requests...



Archimago
2005-11-21, 00:37
Wow, just got my Squeezebox 3 right before the weekend and have been playing with it since. Love it, and thanks for allowing me to "free the music"... Slimserver 6.2.1 worked like a charm on the XP box used, no crashes so far.

A few questions to the knowledgeable around features I would love to see:

1. How much firmware space is already used for the MP3, WAV, FLAC decoding engine on the SB? Is there much room to add other decoders?
2. I would personally love to see native OGG decoding since this is open-source and readily available...
3. How about AAC native decoding like FAAD2? Does the 250MHz processor have enough "umph" to pull this off? (I assume it must be able to if the iPod can do it!)
4. 96/24 - got some wonderful sounding tracks on my system in stereo 96kHz/24-bit that's waiting to be exploited on the hi-fi downstairs!

Again, great product already but would LOVE to see the hardware fully exploited!

Regards,
Arch...

JJZolx
2005-11-21, 00:58
Wow, just got my Squeezebox 3 right before the weekend and have been playing with it since. Love it, and thanks for allowing me to "free the music"... Slimserver 6.2.1 worked like a charm on the XP box used, no crashes so far.

A few questions to the knowledgeable around features I would love to see:

1. How much firmware space is already used for the MP3, WAV, FLAC decoding engine on the SB? Is there much room to add other decoders?
2. I would personally love to see native OGG decoding since this is open-source and readily available...
3. How about AAC native decoding like FAAD2? Does the 250MHz processor have enough "umph" to pull this off? (I assume it must be able to if the iPod can do it!)
4. 96/24 - got some wonderful sounding tracks on my system in stereo 96kHz/24-bit that's waiting to be exploited on the hi-fi downstairs!

Again, great product already but would LOVE to see the hardware fully exploited!
Just curious (and not directed at Archimago)... Why do we have all these calls for various native decoding capabilities at the Squeezebox? Other than saving a few CPU cycles on the server, there's not a big advantage.

Flac made sense in that you can do away with full-bandwidth WAV streaming of lossless audio for a less bandwidth intensive format by transcoding at the server. I think the fact that many of us have libraries encoded in flac is secondary. The fact that flac is open source just means that the encoder is available for all the platforms that SlimServer targets. I don't think that the open-source religious arguments were a deciding factor, though I could be wrong on that.

Other formats make sense in support of streaming 'net radio for the use of the serverless SqueezeNetwork. WMA is a good example - I doubt that it was added for any other reason. I suspect other native formats that follow in the near future will also be in support of radio streaming.

sbjaerum
2005-11-21, 01:02
Why do we have all these calls for various native decoding capabilities at the Squeezebox? Other than saving a few CPU cycles on the server, there's not a big advantage.

May be not a huge advantage, but FFWD/REW is only possible when transcoding is not done.

Steinar

mherger
2005-11-21, 01:13
> Just curious (and not directed at Archimago)... Why do we have all
> these calls for various native decoding capabilities at the Squeezebox?
> Other than saving a few CPU cycles on the server, there's not a big
> advantage.

FFWD & Co. won't work with transcoded streams. And I'm running slimserver
on a C3/600, others even on NAS devices with CPUs at <300MHz - there's not
much power left for transcoding several streams at a time.

--

Michael

-----------------------------------------------------------
Help translate SlimServer by using the
SlimString Translation Helper (http://www.herger.net/slim/)

dip
2005-11-21, 04:05
Remembering the position _within_ a song is also only possible for native formats. This is e.g. necessary if you use the bookmark plugin of kdf which saves the current playlist along with the current song and the position within the current song. That's why I would be very pleased if ogg vorbis would be integrated in the firmware (almost all my songs are in ogg vorbis).

Dieter

stuorguk
2005-11-21, 07:34
For me, Ogg Vorbis is my encoder of choice for audio books and other vocal material. For this, I would love to have the ability to FF&Rew. Meny podcasts are now availabe in ogg and mp3, but I always go for mp3 because of this issue.

Stuart.

seanadams
2005-11-21, 07:57
Wow, just got my Squeezebox 3 right before the weekend and have been playing with it since. Love it, and thanks for allowing me to "free the music"... Slimserver 6.2.1 worked like a charm on the XP box used, no crashes so far.

A few questions to the knowledgeable around features I would love to see:

1. How much firmware space is already used for the MP3, WAV, FLAC decoding engine on the SB? Is there much room to add other decoders?
2. I would personally love to see native OGG decoding since this is open-source and readily available...
3. How about AAC native decoding like FAAD2? Does the 250MHz processor have enough "umph" to pull this off? (I assume it must be able to if the iPod can do it!)
4. 96/24 - got some wonderful sounding tracks on my system in stereo 96kHz/24-bit that's waiting to be exploited on the hi-fi downstairs!

Again, great product already but would LOVE to see the hardware fully exploited!

Regards,
Arch...

It's not a matter of code space or CPU speed, just that we are at a point of vastly diminishing returns now for adding new codecs. WMA was needed for DRM and streaming radio support, but beyond that there is not much benefit to native Ogg etc. That's not to say we'll never implement it, just that it's a pretty low priority compared to all the other projects we have going on. You may be surprised that porting codecs to an embedded DSP is a not a trivial task at all.

Again, not to say it won't happen - just not real soon.

seanadams
2005-11-21, 08:00
For me, Ogg Vorbis is my encoder of choice for audio books and other vocal material. For this, I would love to have the ability to FF&Rew. Meny podcasts are now availabe in ogg and mp3, but I always go for mp3 because of this issue.

Stuart.

I'm sure this has come up on the developers' list at some point, but FF/REW not working for transcoded formats is a probably fixable limitation - it stems mainly from the fact that we can't seek when reading a stream of output from the decoder. We would need more smarts to seek in the source file and re-launch the decoder for each segment.

mrthreeplates
2005-11-21, 12:15
I don't know about other people, but myself and two friends of mine *primarily* use the SB2 for squeezenetwork. This was the whole reason why I bought the box. While I'm really happy with the ability to stream mp3s (and the sb2 in general), I've found quite a bit of content out that I can't play.

For example, National Public Radio program archives are in real audio. One of my favorite radio stations (KCSM) only streams at high bit rate in ogg vorbis. These are two very good reasons for wanting more native codecs.

And, yes, I've already voted on the bugs for native ogg/real codecs.

Of course, if Slim device's squeezenetwork servers could do the transcoding, that would be fine with me.

I just want to be able to play the content that is out there
with my PC turned off. I'll buy (and stick with) any product
that does this.

Cheers,

George

clumsyoik
2005-11-21, 15:19
It's not a matter of code space or CPU speed, just that we are at a point of vastly diminishing returns now for adding new codecs. WMA was needed for DRM and streaming radio support, but beyond that there is not much benefit to native Ogg etc. That's not to say we'll never implement it, just that it's a pretty low priority compared to all the other projects we have going on. You may be surprised that porting codecs to an embedded DSP is a not a trivial task at all.
How much would it cost to contract the people at xiph.org to do the port? They have ported the tremor vorbis decoder for other audio players, I believe.

Forgive me if this is an option you have already explored.

Archimago
2005-11-21, 21:45
Thanks Sean for the feedback. It's good to hear that code space and CPU speed are not the limitations. Sounds like lots of potential on the platform.

Looks like good appetite for native OGG decoding (especially the fwd/rew feature...). I as well am thinking of a quiet, lower-power server like the cheap CSLU2 "slug" or maybe convert my XBOX and would rather let the SB do its own processing if one day I have multiple streams going.

What about native AAC, folks? Given the popularity of the iPod/iTunes, I would imagine AAC would be a wonderful selling point here... The audiophile in me is still hankering for 96/24 FLAC streams :-)

Arch


It's not a matter of code space or CPU speed, just that we are at a point of vastly diminishing returns now for adding new codecs. WMA was needed for DRM and streaming radio support, but beyond that there is not much benefit to native Ogg etc. That's not to say we'll never implement it, just that it's a pretty low priority compared to all the other projects we have going on. You may be surprised that porting codecs to an embedded DSP is a not a trivial task at all.

Again, not to say it won't happen - just not real soon.

tass
2005-11-22, 01:32
While any codec is good to have done on the device itself, AAC won't have any real benefit since Apple Fairplay still isn't licenced - so iTunes downloads will still be unplayable.

qirex
2005-11-22, 12:36
While any codec is good to have done on the device itself, AAC won't have any real benefit since Apple Fairplay still isn't licenced - so iTunes downloads will still be unplayable.
But being able to FF/REW in AAC files would be nice though.