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Phil Leigh
2005-11-20, 10:07
I've spent all day on this and got nowhere - any help would be appreciated.
My SB2 has been fine for 12 months or so - until yesterday, when my router/modem died. I put in a new router (Linksys WAG54GS) to replace the old WAG54G. Now the buffer refuses to fill above 2% and the music drops out incessantly. I'm running the following:

SlimServer Version: 6.2.1 - 5194 - Windows XP - EN - cp1252
Firmware 28

My sb2 is WIRED to the router - not wireless.

Network Health reports:

Control Connection : OK
Streaming Connection : OK
Player Signal Strength : OK
Buffer Fullness : Low
Server Response Time : OK

What else can I provide to debug this problem?

I noticed that if I ping the router with SB playing I get ping timeouts - but none if SB is not playing

Many thanks
Phil

Triode
2005-11-20, 10:37
Is this between the switched ports on the WRT54GS or between the WAN and switch ports [i.e. going through the router or not?]

I'd check the cables and whether you have full/half duplex configured on either end (easiest to leave to autonegotiate)

You can test network throughput with my new plugin - see http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=18199 post 4. This should give a more concrete view that it is a network problem than the Health page.

MrC
2005-11-20, 10:55
This does seem like a duplex-mismatch problem.

Did you power cycle the SB2?

Phil Leigh
2005-11-20, 11:12
Thanks...
The network card on the PC is set to "full autonegotiate" (and is running at 100Mbps into the router. I'm not sure how to check if the router is negotiating or not...
Also, I''m not sure what you mean Triode - the SB and the NIC both connect to (2 of) the ports on the router - I presume that the router would then "switch" them?
I ran your (fantastic) network test plugin and get 100% up to 1000kbps at which point it drops to 60-70% (this seems wrong to me?)

Phil Leigh
2005-11-20, 11:18
I Power-cycled the SB and now the buffer is sitting at 25% or so...???

Triode
2005-11-20, 11:23
Assuming new WRT54GSs are like mine, there are 5 ethernet (RJ45) ports. Of these one is labeled "Internet" and the others 1-4.

Using the default config I think it should switch between ports 1-4 and route between 1-4 and the Internet port. Hence the question was are both devices in ports 1-4. In which case the router/firewall should not be relavent and it does sound like a duplex or cable issue. Try a different cable/port?

I would expect you to get to 4000 kbps with a wired network and minimal latency.

Phil Leigh
2005-11-20, 11:28
Triode - thanks for your time. The PC NIC is in port 1 and the SB in port 2. I am using the same cables that I was before (with the old router).
Is there a way to hard wire the SB to the PC NIC to see if it is the router that is causing the problem?
Thanks again
Phil

MrC
2005-11-20, 11:34
Is there a way to hard wire the SB to the PC NIC to see if it is the router that is causing the problem?

yes, but you'll need to use a cross-over cable.

Oss
2005-11-20, 11:36
The tool is good. I've tested my wired SB2 and got:
3000 (100%) 4000 (95%) 5000 (75%) 6000(63%)

Wireless SB2:
3000 (100%) 4000 (83%) 5000 (65%) 6000(54%)

Phil Leigh
2005-11-20, 11:38
MrC,

I think I've got one of those..

If that works, is there a way I can connect my PC to the SB (using x-over cable) and to the Router/DSL modem at the same time - I need Internet access on my SB PC...can I use the second RJ45 on the SB to go to the router? Does this make any sense?

Phil Leigh
2005-11-20, 12:33
OK - so I wired the SB straight to the NIC and guess what - perfect...100% buffer as per usual.

Any suggestions what this means? - Presumably the switch is not doing what it is supposed to do?
Is there something I can set up on the router that affects this?
Many thanks
Phil

MrC
2005-11-20, 19:54
Well, that's good. You know your Slim is working.

Your router might be defective, or is incorrectly configured. It is also possible that the cable you've been using was marginal in quality, and that your new router is not as forgiving.

Can you get your internet connection to work reliably?

seanadams
2005-11-20, 20:10
OK - so I wired the SB straight to the NIC and guess what - perfect...100% buffer as per usual.

Any suggestions what this means? - Presumably the switch is not doing what it is supposed to do?
Is there something I can set up on the router that affects this?
Many thanks
Phil


It really does sound like the router is defective...

Jim
2005-11-20, 21:29
OK - so I wired the SB straight to the NIC and guess what - perfect...100% buffer as per usual.

Any suggestions what this means? - Presumably the switch is not doing what it is supposed to do?
Is there something I can set up on the router that affects this?
Many thanks
Phil
Other than repositioning it back into it's cardboard box I'd have thought no. Could be the cable but as with most nice and simple wired things it either works or it doesn't. If it doesn't it's usually a error on your part, but this case is strange. Even if firmware upgrade fixed it I'd take it back as I'd have serious questions about it's quality. Out of interest what make/model is this twitchy bitchy switch anyway?

Phil Leigh
2005-11-20, 23:35
thanks to all...
It's a Linksys WAG54GS (their latest and greatest). This is a Europe only model that's a combined ADSL modem, wireless router and 4-way switch. The modem and wireless are great - no problems with Internet access etc. I'll try changing the cables tonight.
Thanks
Phil

snarlydwarf
2005-11-21, 01:27
Could be the cable but as with most nice and simple wired things it either works or it doesn't.

Usually true, but I've seen cables do neat things when, for example, a phone installer runs them and isn't quite clear on the 'why' of twisted pair. (Hint: twisting TX+/RX+ and TX-/RX- doesn't work... or it "mostly" works kinda, but tends to drop like mad when the traffic gets higher.)

It really is possible to have cables that are intermittent. (The wrong twist and all you defeat the whole point of twisted pair, making it very susceptible to any sort of interference, even its own echos on the wire.)

I could see something like that working for a typical laptop cruising the 'net, but dying when it gets more substantial traffic.

Phil Leigh
2005-11-21, 14:37
The plot thickens to my disadvantage...
changed all the cables - no difference.
Changed the router/modem to a Belkin model - SB is superb (100% all the way to 5000kbs - guess the PC/NIC is ok then...) - but I can't get Internet connectivity working - I've got a connection but nothing I can do will resolve the DNS servers.

So, I've got one router that works perfectly for SB but no internet and one that is perfect Internet but SB is "sha**ed"...
HELP

IS there any way I can wire things up so that both Internet and SB work - given that I've now got 2 wireless router/ADSL modems and a wired SB?

pfarrell
2005-11-21, 14:54
On Mon, 2005-11-21 at 13:37 -0800, Phil Leigh wrote:
> IS there any way I can wire things up so that both Internet and SB work
> - given that I've now got 2 wireless router/ADSL modems and a wired SB?

All you should need is a hub or switch.
internet -> modem/router -> switch -> two or more PC and squeezeboxen

altho the paranoid do something closer to

internet -> modem/router -> firewall -> switch -> two or more PC and
squeezeboxen

--
Pat Farrell
http://www.pfarrell.com

Phil Leigh
2005-11-21, 15:03
Pat - thanks - both my routers have built-in firewalls - I'll pick up a switch tomorrow. If I connect the PC and the SB together via the switch, can I then connect the switch to the router (presumably with a x-over cable?) so I can get Internet via the router onto the PC?
Thanks
Phil

pfarrell
2005-11-21, 15:11
On Mon, 2005-11-21 at 14:03 -0800, Phil Leigh wrote:
> Pat - thanks - both my routers have built-in firewalls - I'll pick up a
> switch tomorrow. If I connect the PC and the SB together via the
> switch, can I then connect the switch to the router (presumably with a
> x-over cable?) so I can get Internet via the router onto the PC?

Make sure that you turn the firewall stuff on. Some ship without it
as the default.

Some (most?) modern switches are autosensing, and you can just use
straight cables. Others require a crossover. I expect that
over time, all the stuff will autosense and there will be no
more need for crossover cables. (If you have a cross over cable,
I strongly recommend you mark it about ten times as being a crossover
so that two years from now you don't try to use it as a normal cable
and pull all your hair out because it is the wrong kinda cable.)

So depending on the setup, you would have
internet -> modem/router -> switch -> two or more PC and squeezeboxen
or
internet -> modem/router - X_Cable-> switch -> two or more PC and
squeezeboxen



--
Pat Farrell
http://www.pfarrell.com

Phil Leigh
2005-11-21, 15:20
Pat - that's great, thanks. I'll try it tomorrow.
Cheers
Phil

Jim
2005-11-21, 15:22
Make sure that you turn the firewall stuff on. Some ship without it
as the default.

Yes, but there's 2 things to consider:

1 - All the fancy firewall blocking terms. Turn these on / set to block.

2 - The DMZ (De-Militarised Zone). Turn that off, DMZ is a get-out for people who cannot configure their ports, and if they have to use should be running a firewall on whatever PC the DMZ is pointing too.

Phil Leigh
2005-11-22, 14:35
So - I stuck a simple Belkin 5-way switch between the PC and SB - all fine. but...if I connect the modem/router to the switch( and then internet on the PC is fine) I get the same buffer problems - the buffer just drains away to 0% - the moment I unplug the router from the switch the buffer leaps back to 100% again - aaaaaaargh!

Phil Leigh
2005-11-23, 15:57
It looks like all the data being sent to the SB is bouncing back off the router and back the Slim Server...

Buffer is permanently at 1-0% - everything else looks OK.
If I disconnect the SB from the router (put still connected to the slimserver via a switch it leaps back to 100%...any suggestions?

Maditude
2005-11-24, 01:27
> It looks like all the data being sent to the SB is bouncing back
> off the router and back the Slim Server...
>
> Buffer is permanently at 1-0% - everything else looks OK.
> If I disconnect the SB from the router (put still connected to
> the slimserver via a switch it leaps back to 100%...any
> suggestions?

I don't know if this'll help or not, but take a peek at this thread:

http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=16776&page=2

(I added a wireless router to my already existing wired lan)

Anyways, the problem I bumped into was neglecting to disable the wireless router's DHCP server, which was conflicting with the one already on my lan...

Phil Leigh
2005-11-26, 08:44
I only have 1 router and my slimserver PC and the SB are on static IP's.
If connect PC to the SB all is perfect. If I then connect the PC and the SB to the Router the buffer fullness drops to 0-1% almost instantly - this is driving me nuts!
I've changed almost everything on the router except for updating the firm ware as I can't find a new version - although Linksys approach to firmware support on its website is appallingly confusing.

Is there anyhting I can do (debug options?) to track down the cause?

Mark Lanctot
2005-11-26, 10:48
What kind of router do you have?

You imply that it's wired. Wired routers are very
simple devices - firmware hardly affects how the
10/100 links operate in the slightest, unlike
wireless routers.

So your SB connects and gets an IP address but
there's no data sent? Sounds like cable trouble.

Phil Leigh wrote:
> I only have 1 router and my slimserver PC and the SB
are on static
> IP's.
> If connect PC to the SB all is perfect. If I then
connect the PC and
> the SB to the Router the buffer fullness drops to
0-1% almost instantly
> - this is driving me nuts!
> I've changed almost everything on the router except
for updating the
> firm ware as I can't find a new version - although
Linksys approach to
> firmware support on its website is appallingly
confusing.
>
> Is there anyhting I can do (debug options?) to track
down the cause?
>
>

--
___________________________________


Mark Lanctot
___________________________________

Phil Leigh
2005-11-26, 11:04
Mark,
I've changed ALL the cables - no difference.
The router is a Linksys WAG54GS (brand new).
The SB connects fine and works (sort of) but the buffer never fills up so I get lots of dropouts.
This is very mystifying as the 10/100 switch ports on the router shouldn't go anywhere near the rest of the router...

I've tried turning of the firewall, wireless and disconnecting the ADSL but that made no difference.
Do I need to do anyhting about port forwarding?

Phil Leigh
2005-11-26, 11:08
Just to be clear, the router is a combined wireless router+ADSL modem with 4 ethernet ports (and I have the SB connected to port 1 and the PC running slimserver in Port 2). The wireless is used for the other PC's in the house (and works perfectly) and I need Internet access on the slim server PC.

I had no problems with the old (dead) Linksys WAG54 wireless router/modem I had before.

Phil Leigh
2005-11-26, 12:02
looking at the networking tab in windows task manager, the NIC appears to be receiving as many bytes as its sending...surely this cant be right? I'd expect to be sending lots of bytes to the SB and receiving a few back from the SB...

JJZolx
2005-11-26, 12:28
looking at the networking tab in windows task manager, the NIC appears to be receiving as many bytes as its sending...surely this cant be right? I'd expect to be sending lots of bytes to the SB and receiving a few back from the SB...
No, but that would be consistent with being unable to fill the SB's buffer. If you haven't already done so, try different switch ports for both the SB and the PC. They do go bad.

Mark Lanctot
2005-11-26, 15:07
Phil:

I'm not sure what to tell you. Definitely try
swapping ports as Jim suggested.

Yes, firmware won't do much to the wired ports. I was
going to suggest trying 3rd party firmware as both my
router and my SB2 love DD-WRT, but I don't think there
is third-party firmware for your model, nor will it
really help your situation.

Port forwarding is for traffic to and from the WAN
(Internet) to a LAN (local) client. It doesn't have
anything to do with your situation as both your
SlimServer and your SB are sitting on your LAN.

Do you have a spare network card you can swap out?
I've had a couple of finnicky cards.

--- Phil Leigh
<Phil.Leigh.1z48mb (AT) no-mx (DOT) forums.slimdevices.com>
wrote:

>
> Mark,
> I've changed ALL the cables - no difference.
> The router is a Linksys WAG54GS (brand new).
> The SB connects fine and works (sort of) but the
> buffer never fills up
> so I get lots of dropouts.
> This is very mystifying as the 10/100 switch ports
> on the router
> shouldn't go anywhere near the rest of the router...
>
> I've tried turning of the firewall, wireless and
> disconnecting the ADSL
> but that made no difference.
> Do I need to do anyhting about port forwarding?
>
>
> --
> Phil Leigh
>
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Phil Leigh
2005-11-29, 10:33
Thanks guys - I'm going to try a new NIC (swapping ports didn't help).

Can I run 2 nics's on the same PC - 1 for router/internet and one for SB?