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bglad
2005-11-11, 08:18
i'm going to a research session for the BBC's audio downloads next week - what feedback should i give them?

e.g. what would make the live radio and listen-again feeds more slim-friendly?


we are currently inviting people who have been trialing the BBC's download and podcast service to join us for a 90 minute discussion about their experiences and perceptions of the BBC service, and of podcasting and audio downloading services in general.
-ben

hickinbottoms
2005-11-11, 08:29
No "real" formats of course! As they don't use DRM I can't see any good
argument for forcing their users into a commercial and closed format.

Of course, I'm sure they've been told that a thousand times.


Stuart

-----Original Message-----
From: discuss-bounces (AT) lists (DOT) slimdevices.com
[mailto:discuss-bounces (AT) lists (DOT) slimdevices.com] On Behalf Of bglad
Sent: 11 November 2005 3:19 PM
To: discuss (AT) lists (DOT) slimdevices.com
Subject: [slim] any messages for auntie (BBC)?


i'm going to a research session for the BBC's audio downloads next week
- what feedback should i give them?

e.g. what would make the live radio and listen-again feeds more
slim-friendly?

> we are currently inviting people who have been trialing the BBC's
> download and podcast service to join us for a 90 minute discussion
> about their experiences and perceptions of the BBC service, and of
> podcasting and audio downloading services in general.
-ben


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bglad
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View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=18096

radish
2005-11-11, 08:34
I found the podcasts useless, I couldn't find a single XML feed with all of them listed, you have to go to seperate pages for each show to see if it has a podcast.

bglad
2005-11-11, 09:04
@stuart - what format should we ask for? i've felt the pain of mplayer & real, but how should they be streaming? does mp3 work for this?

@radish - so we need a single xml feed listing all podcasts (& 'listen again' shows) ?

hickinbottoms
2005-11-11, 09:58
MP3 would be much better than Real, but still isn't really 'free'. People
who care about such things (like the Slashdot crowd) demand Ogg, but that's
not nearly as widely supported (especially by portable players). MP3 would
be the best compromise, I feel.

Stuart

-----Original Message-----
From: discuss-bounces (AT) lists (DOT) slimdevices.com
[mailto:discuss-bounces (AT) lists (DOT) slimdevices.com] On Behalf Of bglad
Sent: 11 November 2005 4:05 PM
To: discuss (AT) lists (DOT) slimdevices.com
Subject: [slim] Re: any messages for auntie (BBC)?


@stuart - what format should we ask for? i've felt the pain of mplayer &
real, but how should they be streaming? does mp3 work for this?

@radish - so we need a single xml feed listing all podcasts (& 'listen
again' shows) ?


--
bglad
------------------------------------------------------------------------
bglad's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1052
View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=18096

radish
2005-11-11, 11:06
MP3 would be much better than Real, but still isn't really 'free'. People
who care about such things (like the Slashdot crowd) demand Ogg, but that's
not nearly as widely supported (especially by portable players). MP3 would
be the best compromise, I feel.

Stuart


I see no reason they couldn't do both...but yes, mp3 would be the choice for single format support.


so we need a single xml feed listing all podcasts (& 'listen again' shows) ?
Ideally, yes. Last time I tried (a little while ago I admit) I could use the website to find podcasts, but then I had to copy the RSS links into a podcast application (slimserver, or itunes or whatever) one by one. Other sites have single lists with everything, some even have Top 10 or categorized lists. Makes it much easier, and fully automated - which after all is the point of podcasts.

Also, there should be no distinction between "listen again" and podcasts, the data is the same it's just a different presentation. They should merge these confusing offerings into a single service which allows access to past shows in a number of formats - both podcasted and direct streaming for immediate listening.

bglad
2005-11-11, 11:13
xml feeds: can you suggest a best-of-breed site that offers a large collection of material in a highly usable way? it would be easiest to tell them 'look at xyz.com'

Paul Webster
2005-11-11, 12:01
Re streaming - they used to offer an Ogg feed so they had/have the technology around.

radish
2005-11-11, 14:32
xml feeds: can you suggest a best-of-breed site that offers a large collection of material in a highly usable way? it would be easiest to tell them 'look at xyz.com'

Podcast.net isn't bad, they have thousands of feeds in categories, each category (and sub category) has it's own RSS feed. digitalpodcast is also good (actually, better) - they use OPML which is similar to RSS but more suited for podcasts. Linky: http://www.digitalpodcast.com/opml.php

norderney
2005-11-11, 15:17
What about the sound quality of some of their Listen Again programmes? Some of them sound as if I am listening on AM. Not exactly high quality Hi Fi!

But then again quite a few internet radio streams from various stations are broadcast at very low bit rates and sound terrible when played on proper Hi Fi system.

clumsyoik
2005-11-11, 15:34
i'm going to a research session for the BBC's audio downloads next week - what feedback should i give them?

e.g. what would make the live radio and listen-again feeds more slim-friendly?


-ben

1. MP3
2. 128kbit/s

'nuff said.

bglad
2005-11-13, 03:55
the bbc are offering at least one live radio feed in WMA format -
"Windows Media Audio 9 32 kbps, 44 kHz, mono 1-pass CBR"
http://www.bbc.co.uk/fivelive/live/live_sportsextra_int.asx

is this a good substitute for an mp3 stream? should the beeb be encouraged in this direction?

lostboy
2005-11-13, 04:48
I'm concerned that the BBC is going the for quantity not quality route for its digital transmissions, be it downloads, streams or DAB. I'd like to see them at least offer the option of high quality sources, equivalent to FM stereo, for music and drama. I know that the bandwidth you need to support this will depend upon the compression method chosen and the the opinion of the listener, but for my money the 192kbps MP2 used for DAB Radio 3 (at times, its often reduced) does not match FM quality.

Chris

mikerob
2005-11-13, 10:15
I found the podcasts useless, I couldn't find a single XML feed with all of them listed, you have to go to seperate pages for each show to see if it has a podcast.

All the BBC podcasts are listed at http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/downloadtrial/subscribe.shtml

Some feedback from my perspective. Firstly, I listen to BBC podcasts every day during my commute on the tube and would listen to more if they were available - for example the BBC R4 comedy shows.

Secondly, as mentioned by others, why do they do podcasts in an "open" format (mp3) while streaming uses a closed format and proprietary player?

max.spicer
2005-11-13, 11:40
No. Why use WMA rather than MP3? More devices support MP3. If you're going to go for a non-free format, it might as well be the ubiquitous one!

Max


the bbc are offering at least one live radio feed in WMA format -
"Windows Media Audio 9 32 kbps, 44 kHz, mono 1-pass CBR"
http://www.bbc.co.uk/fivelive/live/live_sportsextra_int.asx

is this a good substitute for an mp3 stream? should the beeb be encouraged in this direction?

Bruce Hartley
2005-11-13, 12:12
Secondly, as mentioned by others, why do they do podcasts in an "open" format (mp3) while streaming uses a closed format and proprietary player?

I believe it is a rights issue.
Podcasts have all music removed (I believe), so they are only making available speech and content that they own all rights too.

When streaming, they are playing music that numerous others hold the rights to, they therefore have to broadcast it in a way that makes it difficult for the music to be pirated from.

That's my understanding anyway.

radish
2005-11-13, 13:55
All the BBC podcasts are listed at http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/downloadtrial/subscribe.shtml

Right, but I can't just put that URL into a podcast browser (like slimserver) and pick what to play. I have to load the list into a web browser, then decide which one's I'm interested in, and copy the RSS URLs into the podcast software one at a time. What a PITA.

bglad
2005-11-17, 03:02
the BBC podcast focus group was last night - they're doing 24 people in groups of 3, an expensive piece of research so hopefully they'll listen to our uniform pleas for consolidating the sources and high quality mp3 streams of everything...

alienbbc fans can add pressure at http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/downloadtrial/#feedback ;)

thanks for the suggestions

Neil Sleightholm
2005-11-19, 09:25
Right, but I can't just put that URL into a podcast browser (like slimserver) and pick what to play. I have to load the list into a web browser, then decide which one's I'm interested in, and copy the RSS URLs into the podcast software one at a time. What a PITA.AlienBBC v1.00 allows you select any of the BBC podcast from a single page (see http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?p=66472#post66472).

Neil