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Michaelwagner
2005-11-07, 14:42
I found this on this web page:
http://brej.org/edit/


We are all individuals now
I am starting to get tired of the Apple drones thinking they are cool and are "thinking different" by all listening to their iPods at the bus stop. I wonder if the cord on the ear phones is strong enough to strangle them.

There's also this picture:
http://brej.org/edit/individuals.jpg

superbad
2005-11-07, 19:55
You're unique! Just like everybody else.

fathom39
2005-11-07, 21:27
iPods are for sheep. We know this because the ear buds and cord are white, in order to match the color of the wool.

Jim
2005-11-08, 02:26
iPods are for sheep. We know this because the ear buds and cord are white, in order to match the color of the wool.
BAAARRRRRRRR!

As much as I hate Apple, I despe DRM and iTunes makes me want to puke I do love my iPod :D

And how can you criticise it..... it looks sort of like the new Squeezebox :D

max.spicer
2005-11-08, 02:46
I notice that the SB3 designer has worked for Apple...

Max


BAAARRRRRRRR!

As much as I hate Apple, I despe DRM and iTunes makes me want to puke I do love my iPod :D

And how can you criticise it..... it looks sort of like the new Squeezebox :D

cliveb
2005-11-08, 03:43
As much as I hate Apple, I despe DRM and iTunes makes me want to puke I do love my iPod
But surely if you care about music, and you're a Squeezebox lover, the DAP of choice has to be the Rio Karma? Native support for FLAC & Ogg Vorbis; gapless playback of MP3s (even the Squeezebox can't do that trick). OK, it's a bit ugly in the fashion accessory stakes, but functionally it gets pretty much everything right. Lack of ReplayGain support is the only thing I can think of that's missing. Shame it's no longer made.

Fifer
2005-11-08, 04:29
And how can you criticise it..... it looks sort of like the new Squeezebox :D
I see it more as the antithesis of the Squeezebox.

Jim
2005-11-08, 05:40
Native support for FLAC & Ogg Vorbis
Apart from filling it up very quickly just what effect does the huge data reading involved with playing FLAC files have on the battery life? Lossy is lossy, if I could use Ogg Vorbis over AAC or WMA I of course would but wouldn't use ropey old MP3 if the M$/Apple codec was superior in terms of "how much better does it sound vs how much smaller is it".


; gapless playback of MP3s (even the Squeezebox can't do that trick).
OK, the Apple has a few gapless problems :(



OK, it's a bit ugly in the fashion accessory stakes, but functionally it gets pretty much everything right. Lack of ReplayGain support is the only thing I can think of that's missing. Shame it's no longer made.
My main reason for buying the iPod was the fact that it was the only player offering 40 gigs at the time, it was one of the smallest and the looks came last.

Being a "lossless snob" I've got a collection of over 900 gigabytes of lossless FLAC files on my Slimserver, and even encoding into AAC Lossy @ 128 I cannot get all my music on my iPod. But I've accepted that 40 gigs of 128kbps lossy is acceptable for portable usage, that there is the gap problem between trakcs and anyway, why worry as I have a iPod with white headphones like everyone else....BAAAAARRRRR !!! :D

In fact maybe I'm the black sheep of the family. At least I own my music, it's lossless, it was ripped with EAC and when something bigger/better comes along I can just run a script and be ready to roll with another format/bitrate :D

oreillymj
2005-11-08, 05:43
Pity Rio went bust

http://www.engadget.com/entry/1234000483056128/

another reason to hate Apple.

jbuccino
2005-11-08, 06:18
It makes me weary when I see all this envy/indignation with a product's (iPod) or company's (Apple) success. Vote with your own money but don't criticize my choice. My iPod and my Powerbook have served me well. I hope your choices are as satisfying to you.

- Joe

Jim
2005-11-08, 06:32
Pity Rio went bust

http://www.engadget.com/entry/1234000483056128/

another reason to hate Apple.
Survival of the fittest. Only in rare circumstances does the inferior product win (e.g. VHS vs Betamax), and usually in those cases it involves consumer stupidity/naivety, a huge marketing department, sheer luck or Bill Gates :D

Fifer
2005-11-08, 06:46
OK, the Apple has a few gapless problems :(
I'd query the 'few' as it doesn't do gapless at all.

Survival of the fittest. Only in rare circumstances does the inferior product win (e.g. VHS vs Betamax), and usually in those cases it involves consumer stupidity/naivety, a huge marketing department, sheer luck or Bill Gates
I'd also query the 'rare circumstances', but absolutely agree that consumer stupidity/naivety, a huge marketing department, sheer luck or Bill Gates are often common factors in the all too common incidence of marketing trumping quality and capability. I'd add Apple in there too now as the iPod is the certainly the most fashionable DAP (and gapless aside, it's quite capable) but there are several technically and sonically superior models available IMHO. I think it's more a case of 'survival of the prettiest'.

Michaelwagner
2005-11-08, 06:56
I think it's more a case of 'survival of the prettiest'.I live with an aesthetician. Until I met her, I thought fashion was for wusses, and ignored it. It may still be for wusses, but you'd be amazed how many people out there see fashion as the *sole* determining factor for absolutely everything. You may not like it, but ignore it at your peril ...

oreillymj
2005-11-08, 07:21
<Quote>
It makes me weary when I see all this envy/indignation with a product's (iPod) or company's (Apple) success. Vote with your own money but don't criticize my choice. My iPod and my Powerbook have served me well. I hope your choices are as satisfying to you
</Quote>

I have voted with my money and bought an I-River IFP-895.

The sucess of the i-pod is largely down to marketing and it's 1 USP which is a scroll-wheel.
All Apple did was repackage an off-the-shelf solution from a small company called Portal Player. The result is superior products/companies going bust.

I'm not starting a personal argument with you over your choice of MP3 player. Mac users do seem to take offence over the merest negative comment about Apple products. I get tired of watching videos of Steve Jobs announcing minor incremental changes to a Mp3 player/OS and getting standing ovations. These are the same people who foam at the mouth over a machine with an archaic single threaded OS in a blue monitor case.

What I cannot understand is why so many people are buying into a product which becomes a 60Gb brick once the internal battery stops taking a charge.
Why has Apple never changed the design to make this a user replacable part?
It can only be because they know that after spending $100's to fill the thing, you're more likely to buy a new replacement than send it away to get the battery changed.

BTW - here's something I just discovered.
Paul Allen's (Microsoft) Vulcan Ventures Fund is large investor
in Portal Player.

jhurley
2005-11-08, 08:42
I have one. I love it. My wife has one integrated into her Mini. She loves it.

For those who don't, you should visit www.smashmyipod.com.

I also love my slim servers.

Jim
2005-11-08, 08:49
Maybe we should startup www.barbeku-a-roku.com and send in donations to buy a few....secondhand off of ebay of course :D

Fifer
2005-11-08, 09:03
I have one. I love it. My wife has one integrated into her Mini. She loves it.
One of the nice things about the iPod (which springs from Apple's overwhelming market dominance) is the wide range of aftremarket accessories available for it. My wife has a Mini but fortunately, she's not that much of a music fan and a complete technophobe so no need for an iPod purchase ...

jbuccino
2005-11-08, 09:57
What I cannot understand is why so many people are buying into a product which becomes a 60Gb brick once the internal battery stops taking a charge.
Why has Apple never changed the design to make this a user replacable part?


No one is asking you to understand. It's not your money. I respect your choice, please respect mine.

- Joe

jtfields
2005-11-08, 09:58
One of the nice things about the iPod (which springs from Apple's overwhelming market domonance) is the wide range of aftremarket accessories available for it.

You stole my thunder. I have Bose SoundDock. Many, if not most, of the major A/V receiver and car stereo manufacturers either offer or have plans to offer models with dock connectors to directly connect, listen to and control the iPod. There are even entire home music distribution systems built around the iPod. There's a chance that the next car you buy will have built-in iPod support. I even read that one of the major themes of C.E.D.I.A. this year was iPod connectivity. I couldn't care less about the aesthetics but it's a big deal to my wife and she loves all the "fashion options" out there for the iPods. Oh, and it's a damn good MP3 player as well.

In my opinion, it's the depth of support by third party manufacturers that gives the iPod the edge over the few who have been able to manufacturer something that comes close to being as good as the iPod.

Did I mention that I love my iPod? :)

Michaelwagner
2005-11-08, 10:11
OK, guys, this thread is getting snarley.

There's no need to be offensive.

I posted it as a humourous web page that I happened to come across. The intention was to foster a light-hearted smile on a few faces, not to become the focus for acrimony.

oreillymj
2005-11-08, 10:17
I totally respect people's right to buy and love their i-pods or whatever else they might buy.

But I think you've average consumer who hasn't a clue technically doesn't realise that with every DRM'd track they buy off ITMS, they are becoming part of an Apple monopoly that they have no way out of.

And every gadget (e.g.) car docking port, condemns the rest us to eventually have to follow the sheep once every other device get's driven out of the market.

Apple are becoming every bit as bad as M$. They have a closed system that they will not licence to anyone else with >90% of the entire market. I believe they also want to collect a "tax" on every accessory made to connect to the iPod. If Microsoft were doing this, people would be up in arms.

Jacob Potter
2005-11-08, 10:25
On 11/8/05, oreillymj <oreillymj.1y6mfn (AT) no-mx (DOT) forums.slimdevices.com> wrote:
> These are the same people who foam at the
> mouth over a machine with an archaic single threaded OS in a blue
> monitor case.

Don't overgeneralize... I love my iPod and Powerbook, but I'm ready to
admit that prior to OSX 10.3 (maybe 10.2), the Mac /sucked/ for any
serious use. The PowerMac G5 is still a price/performance travesty.
But their software and laptop/SFF hardware stand on their own merits.

> Why has Apple never changed the design to make this a user replacable
> part?
> It can only be because they know that after spending $100's to fill the
> thing, you're more likely to buy a new replacement than send it away to
> get the battery changed.

Um, you can get the battery replaced by Apple for $60. And most
competitors to the iPod also have non-removable batteries:
http://www.ipodbatteryfaq.com/#17

- Jacob

Jim
2005-11-08, 11:04
The way I see it, if there wasn't people wasting their money buying iTunes DRM stuff then my iPod would have cost more money or not even been made in the first place.

I don't like Mictosoft yet still run Windows, so don't assume I like Apple (maybe you saw the avatar) just because I have an iPod.

jbuccino
2005-11-08, 11:42
I do not support any form of restrictive DRM either. I refuse to buy anything that prevents me from making legal copies for my personal use. I have even chosen to encode in high quality mp3 only as I do not want to be restrcted in the future with my choice of portable (or non-portable) digital music player.

But this has nothing to do with my choice of an iPod. Right now it is the best device (features, functionality, price, compatibility) for my needs. And I don't feel like a sheep... :-)

- Joe

Fifer
2005-11-08, 11:58
In my opinion, it's the depth of support by third party manufacturers that gives the iPod the edge over the few who have been able to manufacturer something that comes close to being as good as the iPod.
I can just about agree with that and look forward to seeing how they gain the edge over those who have built something that's better than the iPod. ;)

andy b
2005-11-08, 13:11
I hate Apple's marketing 'spin'. You'd imagine that they'd invented everything, rather than just being slightly late with slightly overpriced alternatives.

I like the way some of their kit looks.

I hate the way the media fawns over ipod and anything apple.

I needed a music player....

I bought an ipod for one reason. 60GB.

Shame I now find out it can't string two songs together without inserting a gap. How long have they been doing music players?

BLOODY HELL!

jmpage2
2005-11-08, 13:13
There are applications out there that allow you to download non-DRM encoded versions of songs directly from the iTunes store, the only difference is that you are using a front-end developed by a non-Apple programmer and are probably violating some obscure EULA from Apple by not using their storefront to get the songs (and forcing you into DRM).

I've had no problems downloading these tracks and playing them on my Squeezebox. As unfortunate as it is, DRM is here to stay as it's the only viable solution to the music industries dead distribution model. Eventually there will hopefully be some capabilities of interoperability between devices or cheap licensing to playback DRM protected tracks.

And on the bright side, Apple pioneered the whole "buy the tracks you want" concept. I really used to hate buying an entire $15 CD for 1-2 decent tracks and the rest being junk.

Lastly, I'm not an Apple lackey. I've used a ton of different MP3 players over the years, most recently trading in my thick brick of a Rio Karma for the new video iPod. Although the new iPod has a few drawbacks, the advantage of the smaller size alone makes it worth it for me to have one. I can easily walk around with it in the front pocket of my blue jeans and it's not uncomfortable in the least, compared to the Rio, which was so thick as to be actually painful to walk around with in a pair of jeans.

Mark Lanctot
2005-11-08, 15:55
That's just really, really sad, but very true.
Makes me lose my faith in humanity though.

People seem to especially think this way for cars
and that just gets really expensive. Very sad.

Then again, I'm one of those engineer-types "who
cares what it looks like as long as it works",
function-over-form people. It's just totally
against my philosophy.

Michaelwagner wrote:
> Fifer Wrote:
>
> I live with an aesthetician. Until I met her, I
thought fashion was for
> wusses, and ignored it. It may still be for wusses,
but you'd be amazed
> how many people out there see fashion as the *sole*
determining factor
> for absolutely everything. You may not like it, but
ignore it at your
> peril ...
>
>

--
___________________________________


Mark Lanctot
___________________________________

oreillymj
2005-11-08, 16:19
Ok, I'm not saying that the i-Pod doesn't have it's good points, but what I am saying is that it has quite a few drawbacks that most people don't even comprehend when they buy into the thing.

Because the iPod has such a high % of the market it becomes the future for everyone, even those who do not want to subscribe to Apple's. Healthy competition is good for everyone.

Yes there are crappy bands that don't deserve album sales on the back of 1 good song, but equally it worries me that smaller selling acts will be unable to release of physical formats as the margins won't be high enough.

Finally, it bugs me the way everyone seems to react as if Steve Jobs has just found the cure for cancer (yes I know he beat cancer) when he announces that Toshiba have shrunk their Hard disk's and he's shaved 1mm of the height of thing.

People are free to own whatever player they like, think whatever they like and completely diagree with me.

jbuccino
2005-11-08, 18:16
OK, guys, this thread is getting snarley.

There's no need to be offensive.

I posted it as a humourous web page that I happened to come across. The intention was to foster a light-hearted smile on a few faces, not to become the focus for acrimony.

Your statement "I wonder if the cord on the ear phones is strong enough to strangle them." set quite a different tone for me. Perhaps I missed the intended humor.

- Joe

Michaelwagner
2005-11-08, 18:21
Your statement "I wonder if the cord on the ear phones is strong enough to strangle them." set quite a different tone for me. Perhaps I missed the intended humor.What you missed is that it wasn't my statement. I was quoting the web site whose link I provided. I just went back and made it more clear that I was quoting. Sorry if I confused anyone. I thought it was obvious .... I said I found this on a web page

jbuccino
2005-11-08, 18:36
You are correct. I did not realize you were quoting. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

- Joe

Robin Bowes
2005-11-10, 04:51
andy b said the following on 08/11/2005 20:11:
> I needed a music player....
>
> I bought an ipod for one reason. 60GB.

Me too. Mine's full though, so I'll have to re-transcode to a lower bit
rate :)

R.
--
http://robinbowes.com

If a man speaks in a forest,
and his wife's not there,
is he still wrong?