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coldslabs
2005-11-06, 12:29
This may have been covered elsewhere, but using Random Mix in 6.2 I noticed two things.

1. There is no way to "stop adding songs" in the hardware UI.
- This is annoying because at the end of every song, slimserver has to find a new random song to add to the end of the list, resulting in a 20 second delay between songs (at least on my system with a 30 song playlist and a subset of genres selected). So if I want a random playlist with no delay between songs, I have to visit my computer to select "stop adding songs". Being able to stop the addition of new songs from the hardware UI would be infinitely preferable.

2. The default behavior is to always add songs to Random Mixes.
- I would like to have the OPTION of adding songs dynamically to random mixes instead of this being the default behavior. (I think the previous versions of the plugin had this functionality). I personally want to generate a random playlist which is static, with songs not continuously added (this is just how I'd prefer to use it and I avoid the 20 second delay between songs this way). Currently to do this I have to generate the playlist and then visit the web UI to "stop adding songs". Even if the stop option were added to the Hardware UI, I would still have an extra step after creating a Random Mix. Being able to turn off this functionality once in the Web UI instead of every time I want a Random Mix would be great.

Should I go ahead and log these as bugs? If I am missing something that will solve my issues, please let me know.

--G

kdf
2005-11-06, 13:00
On 6-Nov-05, at 11:29 AM, coldslabs wrote:

>
> This may have been covered elsewhere, but using Random Mix in 6.2 I
> noticed two things.
>
> 1. There is no way to "stop adding songs" in the hardware UI.
>
There is in the 6.5 builds. not likely to hit 6.2.1 at this time.

>
> 2. The default behavior is to always add songs to Random Mixes.
> - I would like to have the OPTION

does the setting for upcoming songs work if you set it to zero?

-k

coldslabs
2005-11-06, 13:28
> 2. The default behavior is to always add songs to Random Mixes.

does the setting for upcoming songs work if you set it to zero?


The setting works (i.e. the dialog accepts zero as a valid setting), but I'm not sure if it results in the expected behavior:

If I set 'upcoming songs' to zero, then try to create a random playlist I get a playlist of no items.

If I set 'upcoming songs' to 5, and then create a playlist, I get a playlist of 5 songs. If, while it's playing, I then change 'upcoming songs' to zero and save the settings, no new songs are dynamically added to the playlist.

--G

oreillymj
2005-11-06, 13:51
<Quote>
I would like to have the OPTION of adding songs dynamically to random mixes instead of this being the default behavior. (I think the previous versions of the plugin had this functionality). I personally want to generate a random playlist which is static, with songs not continuously added
</Quote>

Is this not the behaviour of Shuffle Mode. Play back all the songs in your collection then hit the shuffle button. You'll get a static playlist of all songs shuffled randomly.
This mode still exists.

The Random Mix plugin was designed to work on a subset of your collection, only maintaining a small playlist which expands dynamically.

coldslabs
2005-11-06, 14:03
<Quote>
I would like to have the OPTION of adding songs dynamically to random mixes instead of this being the default behavior. (I think the previous versions of the plugin had this functionality). I personally want to generate a random playlist which is static, with songs not continuously added
</Quote>

Is this not the behaviour of Shuffle Mode. Play back all the songs in your collection then hit the shuffle button. You'll get a static playlist of all songs shuffled randomly.
This mode still exists.

The Random Mix plugin was designed to work on a subset of your collection, only maintaining a small playlist which expands dynamically.


Well, I don't know about your system, but playing my entire collection and then shuffling it would hose my system for quite a while, and I wouldn't be able to excise chrismas, comedy, spoken word genres which I only want to listen to sparingly or take advantage of the other Random mix bonuses like random album, etc. I think Random Mix is great, and it does everything I want it to, but I don't like the default dynamically added song behavior. If the functionality is already there to 'stop adding songs' it would seem trivial (especially since the option existed in previous incarnations) to make it a selectable option instead of the default behavior.

If the majority like the plugin how it is, that's fine, but if someone could point me at where I may be able to hardcode the functionality so that songs aren't dynamically added, I'd appreciate it. I can't write code, but I can usually hack at it with mixed results. :)

--G

kdf
2005-11-06, 14:15
Quoting coldslabs <coldslabs.1y3fmb (AT) no-mx (DOT) forums.slimdevices.com>:
the majority like the plugin how it is, that's fine, but if someone
> could point me at where I may be able to hardcode the functionality so
> that songs aren't dynamically added, I'd appreciate it. I can't write
> code, but I can usually hack at it with mixed results. :)
>

you can try comenting out line 495 & 496: (line number may vary depending on
server version)
#playRandom($client, $type{$client}, 1);
#} elsif (($slimCommand eq 'playlist') && exists
$stopcommands{$paramsRef->[1]})
{

that should stop adding songs after the first track plays, and its a simple
tweak.

-kdf

coldslabs
2005-11-06, 14:33
Quoting coldslabs <coldslabs.1y3fmb (AT) no-mx (DOT) forums.slimdevices.com>:
the majority like the plugin how it is, that's fine, but if someone
> could point me at where I may be able to hardcode the functionality so
> that songs aren't dynamically added, I'd appreciate it. I can't write
> code, but I can usually hack at it with mixed results. :)
>

you can try comenting out line 495 & 496: (line number may vary depending on
server version)
#playRandom($client, $type{$client}, 1);
#} elsif (($slimCommand eq 'playlist') && exists
$stopcommands{$paramsRef->[1]})
{

that should stop adding songs after the first track plays, and its a simple
tweak.

-kdf


Thanks kdf! Worked just fine.

--G

max.spicer
2005-11-06, 14:58
This isn't right. RandomMix adds songs whenever the current song finishes, but I've never noticed any delay from it as it's generally playing another song while it's doing it. There should always be at least one song ahead of the current song in the playlist, so you should never notice gaps. What have you got your random mix settings set to?

Max


1. There is no way to "stop adding songs" in the hardware UI.
- This is annoying because at the end of every song, slimserver has to find a new random song to add to the end of the list, resulting in a 20 second delay between songs (at least on my system with a 30 song playlist and a subset of genres selected). So if I want a random playlist with no delay between songs, I have to visit my computer to select "stop adding songs". Being able to stop the addition of new songs from the hardware UI would be infinitely preferable.

coldslabs
2005-11-06, 15:28
This isn't right. RandomMix adds songs whenever the current song finishes, but I've never noticed any delay from it as it's generally playing another song while it's doing it. There should always be at least one song ahead of the current song in the playlist, so you should never notice gaps. What have you got your random mix settings set to?

Max

I had it set to 30 'upcoming songs' and <undefined> 'recently played songs' initially. I think I had a defined 'recently played songs' when I was experiencing the problem as well (not 100% positive though). Might the <undefined> be causing a problem?

Edit: I have 10 of 14 genres selected and I've been using 'Random Songs' by clicking the Play button.

The "gap" seems to come not from NOT having a new song to go to, but the processing of adding a new song to the playlist. It doesn't start playing the next song on the playlist until it adds a new song to the bottom of the (in the above case) 30 item list.

When I initially generate the Random Mix, there is about a 20 second delay before it shows up and starts playing and then in between every song, when it seems to be adding a new song to the end of the playlist, there is another 20 second delay. If I click 'stop adding songs' the delay disappears in between songs. The delay between songs was my impetus for this thread. If there was no delay, I wouldn't care as much about songs being added dynamically, but it was adversely affecting my listening experience.

If you'd like me to try anything if there is something to troubleshoot, let me know.

--G

Specs:
SlimServer Version: 6.2.0 - 4753 - Windows 2000 - EN - cp1252

Edit: Maybe I'm just underpowered?:
2.1Ghz AMD + 1.5 GB RAM

oreillymj
2005-11-07, 04:17
My first question would be, how many tracks have you got in your music library?

My system is a 2.4Ghz P4 with 512mb of RAM on XP and I have never experienced the issue your seeing with a library of 7000 tracks.

I have Random Mix set to display that last 10 songs played and the upcoming 10.

I also have crossfade enabled and never have a delay.


What I have seen, and initiallly thought to be a SlimServer stall, is those stupid periods of empty space at the end of CD's before a "hidden" track starts which some artists use to give the impression that their 45mins of music is really 60mins. Robbie Williams is a culprit I can think of.

So instead of having a Track 10 and a Track 11, I get Track 10, silence and then the hiddne track kicks in. I usually have to bring these tracks into Goldwave to split them.

oreillymj
2005-11-07, 04:24
After my last post, I just wondered if you are seeing the dreaded "Web Refresh Of Dead" issue.

A lot of people seem to think the Web refresh is pretty slow. Most people would have the UI's refresh rate set to the default 30seconds.
Mine is set to 3 minutes. I can live with the UI perhaps not showing the correct song playing.

Does the Random Mix issue occur if you close all browser windows on the PC?

coldslabs
2005-11-07, 17:35
Does the Random Mix issue occur if you close all browser windows on the PC?
Yes.


What I have seen, and initiallly thought to be a SlimServer stall, is those stupid periods of empty space at the end of CD's before a "hidden" track starts which some artists use to give the impression that their 45mins of music is really 60mins.


No, not a problem. I've reproduced the issue reliably with many different songs, most of which I doubt are padded with silence. (Buddy Holly, The Kinks, etc)



My first question would be, how many tracks have you got in your music library?

My system is a 2.4Ghz P4 with 512mb of RAM on XP and I have never experienced the issue your seeing with a library of 7000 tracks.


I have more tracks in my library. I tried a subset of my collection (around 1000 tracks) and I had no delay at all with dynamically added songs. I guess my server is just a bit underpowered for what I'm doing. I'll just use kdf's hardcoded hack which gives me the behavior I want. Thanks for the suggestions.

After reading Dan's sticky post about bugs, I think I'll log an enhancement request and hope that someone agrees with my initial suggestion.

dspeirs
2005-11-07, 22:33
What is supposed to heppen when you play a random mix (lets say of 10 songs)? When the 10 songs are over does the program grab another 10 "random" songs?

How about with Random Artists? DWhen the artist's songs are over does it grab a new "random" artist? I noticved there is no way of limiting number of songs when choosing a rondom artist. Is that by design? Man, I hope there is a way I can choose random artist but only play a max of X in a row before picking a new random artist.

make sense?

Dan

kdf
2005-11-07, 22:47
On 7-Nov-05, at 9:33 PM, dspeirs wrote:

>
> What is supposed to heppen when you play a random mix (lets say of 10
> songs)? When the 10 songs are over does the program grab another 10
> "random" songs?
>
depending on settings, it will add another song so that there are
always a number after the current song to match the settings.
it will drop already played songs, leaving only the number behind
matching the number you have in settings.

> How about with Random Artists? DWhen the artist's songs are over does
> it grab a new "random" artist?

yup

> I noticved there is no way of limiting
> number of songs when choosing a rondom artist. Is that by design?
> Man, I hope there is a way I can choose random artist but only play a
> max of X in a row before picking a new random artist.
>

I don't believe that is possible with the current implementation.

I'm sure there will be a few hundred items on the wishlist for Random
play, and can add your voice to that any time you like :)

-kdf

max.spicer
2005-11-08, 01:39
Please make sure that enhancement requests are filed on this sort of thing. I'll do my best to do the one's I like!

Max

PS I'm replying to dspeirs here really, not kdf!




dspeirs wrote:
> I noticved there is no way of limiting
> number of songs when choosing a rondom artist. Is that by design?
> Man, I hope there is a way I can choose random artist but only play a
> max of X in a row before picking a new random artist.
>

I don't believe that is possible with the current implementation.

I'm sure there will be a few hundred items on the wishlist for Random
play, and can add your voice to that any time you like :)

-kdf

coldslabs
2005-11-08, 08:57
FYI: I logged a bug about my particular madness.

==========================

Bug 2516: Random Mix: Dynamic addition of songs should be optional.
----------------------------------------
http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2516

max.spicer
2005-11-17, 13:07
I've just added this feature for you. There's now a checkbox at the bottom of the random mix web page to stop it continuously adding new songs. This is currently labelled "Keep adding new stuff" until I can think of some better text - suggestions welcome! This new feature should be in the next nightlies of the 6.5 trunk. If you try it out, please let me know how you get on.

Max


2. The default behavior is to always add songs to Random Mixes.
- I would like to have the OPTION of adding songs dynamically to random mixes instead of this being the default behavior. (I think the previous versions of the plugin had this functionality). I personally want to generate a random playlist which is static, with songs not continuously added (this is just how I'd prefer to use it and I avoid the 20 second delay between songs this way). Currently to do this I have to generate the playlist and then visit the web UI to "stop adding songs". Even if the stop option were added to the Hardware UI, I would still have an extra step after creating a Random Mix. Being able to turn off this functionality once in the Web UI instead of every time I want a Random Mix would be great.

jmpage2
2005-11-17, 14:05
Let me ask a stupid question, where are the random mix settings being mentioned here controlled?

coldslabs
2005-11-17, 14:15
Max,

Thanks a lot for taking the time to add the option. I really appreciate it. I'll download the new build this weekend and give it a trial run and post some feedback.

As far as suggestions for the label:

Dynamically add content
Continually add content
Always add to playlist
Add to playlist
...
um... I guess I don't really have any good suggestions either. :)

@jmpage: The web UI link is on the main page (i.e. <yourServer>:9000) if you have the Random Mix plugin installed (comes preinstalled with version 6.2+)

max.spicer
2005-11-17, 15:03
How do you mean? You can get to the random mix settings by going to the Random Mix page in the web interface (look under Browse Music on the front page). These settings are at the bottom of the page.

Max


Let me ask a stupid question, where are the random mix settings being mentioned here controlled?

dean
2005-11-17, 15:59
How about:

[ ] Automatically add new songs after songs are played

This should go at the bottom, right before the " Now Playing will
show upcoming songs and recently played songs." section.

On Nov 17, 2005, at 1:15 PM, coldslabs wrote:

>
> Max,
>
> Thanks a lot for taking the time to add the option. I really
> appreciate
> it. I'll download the new build this weekend and give it a trial
> run and
> post some feedback.
>
> As far as suggestions for the label:
>
> Dynamically add content
> Continually add content
> Always add to playlist
> Add to playlist
> ...
> um... I guess I don't really have any good suggestions either. :)
>
> @jmpage: The web UI link is on the main page (i.e. <yourServer>:9000)
> if you have the Random Mix plugin installed (comes preinstalled with
> version 6.2+)
>
>
> --
> coldslabs
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
> coldslabs's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?
> userid=450
> View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=17937
>
>

jmpage2
2005-11-17, 16:29
How do you mean? You can get to the random mix settings by going to the Random Mix page in the web interface (look under Browse Music on the front page). These settings are at the bottom of the page.

Max

OK, I found it, just wasn't in a very intuititive place (for me). Thanks.

max.spicer
2005-11-18, 05:43
The problem is that that only works for song mixes. Albums/artists only have new ones added when the current one finishes, and of course aren't "songs". Maybe the following:

Automatically add new items when old ones finish

Max


How about:

[ ] Automatically add new songs after songs are played

This should go at the bottom, right before the " Now Playing will
show upcoming songs and recently played songs." section.

On Nov 17, 2005, at 1:15 PM, coldslabs wrote:

>
> Max,
>
> Thanks a lot for taking the time to add the option. I really
> appreciate
> it. I'll download the new build this weekend and give it a trial
> run and
> post some feedback.
>
> As far as suggestions for the label:
>
> Dynamically add content
> Continually add content
> Always add to playlist
> Add to playlist
> ...
> um... I guess I don't really have any good suggestions either. :)
>
> @jmpage: The web UI link is on the main page (i.e. <yourServer>:9000)
> if you have the Random Mix plugin installed (comes preinstalled with
> version 6.2+)
>
>
> --
> coldslabs
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
> coldslabs's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?
> userid=450
> View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=17937
>
>