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boybees
2005-11-05, 13:28
I'd like to be able to wake up my server (IBM thinkpad laptop) using the SB2 remote. I've started and followed several threads on this issue.

Here's what I've arrived at: when I look in the properties tab of my wired ethernet card, I see that there is a power management tab where you can check a box that says "allow this device to bring the computer out of standby." This is the wake-on LAN function, and it works.

When I look at properties for my wireless card, I see no such power management tab, and no check box for the wake-on LAN function.

So I called IBM tech support (usually pretty good) and ask the rep how to configure my wireless card so that I would have the wake-on LAN option. He said it's not possible because "the wireless card is on all the time and is always receiving signals from everywhere, so how would it know which signal is yours?" This answer betrayed a level of cluelessness that made me not trust it, but I couldn't get anything more useful out of him.

It's hard for me to believe that Slim would build a wake-on LAN function into their wireless squeezebox, which then wouldn't work on a wireless network. I don't know where to turn at this point. My wireless card is an Intel pro/wireless LAN 2100 #3b.

Any suggestions?

kdf
2005-11-05, 13:48
On 5-Nov-05, at 12:28 PM, boybees wrote:

>
>
> It's hard for me to believe that Slim would build a wake-on LAN
> function into their wireless squeezebox, which then wouldn't work on a
> wireless network.
Why? If WOL is a wired only feature, why should it be denied to wired
users if wireless doesn't support it?

> I don't know where to turn at this point. My wireless
> card is an Intel pro/wireless LAN 2100 #3b.
>
> Any suggestions?
>
In my reading on the topic, it seemed to be widely acknolwedged that
WOL over wireless didn't work. Annoyingly, no consistent reason was
turning up. In som cases its the power requirements, or the 'not
always connected' aspect of wireless, or even the example you give.
When a computer is powered down, it may not have the wireless section
of the hardware powered up, thus it would have no way to receive the
packet.

On the more positive side, I did hear of some claims that it can work,
but only some hardware supported it. I don't know for sure if SB2
broadcasts the packet over wireless or not, but assuming it does, your
router would have to support it and then forward to the wireless card,
which would also have to have some way of supporting it (not to mention
support from the computer hardware as well).

-k

danco
2005-11-05, 14:45
On 5/11/05 at 12:48 -0800, kdf wrote
>In my reading on the topic, it seemed to be widely acknolwedged that
>WOL over wireless didn't work. Annoyingly, no consistent reason was
>turning up. In som cases its the power requirements, or the 'not
>always connected' aspect of wireless, or even the example you give.
>When a computer is powered down, it may not have the wireless
>section of the hardware powered up, thus it would have no way to
>receive the packet.
>
>On the more positive side, I did hear of some claims that it can
>work, but only some hardware supported it. I don't know for sure if
>SB2 broadcasts the packet over wireless or not, but assuming it
>does, your router would have to support it and then forward to the
>wireless card, which would also have to have some way of supporting
>it (not to mention support from the computer hardware as well).

I think your way of putting it may be a little confusing.

Wake on LAN probably does not work if the computer has a wireless card.

My own setup has my computer and my wireless gear (Airport Extreme)
connected by Ethernet to my router, and the SB on wireless. The SB
Wake on LAN works fine in this setup.
--
Daniel Cohen

dean
2005-11-05, 20:27
I've never seen a wireless card that supports WOL. Nearly every
ethernet card I've encountered does support WOL. It should work fine
if the player is connected to a wireless access point which is then
connected to the server via ethernet.

Squeezebox doesn't know if the remote system is connected via
wireless, wired, optical or pigeon(1), it just sends out the magic
packets and hopes for the best.

-dean

Footnotes:
1) http://ietf.org/rfc/rfc1149.txt


On Nov 5, 2005, at 12:28 PM, boybees wrote:

>
> I'd like to be able to wake up my server (IBM thinkpad laptop)
> using the
> SB2 remote. I've started and followed several threads on this issue.
>
> Here's what I've arrived at: when I look in the properties tab of my
> wired ethernet card, I see that there is a power management tab where
> you can check a box that says "allow this device to bring the computer
> out of standby." This is the wake-on LAN function, and it works.
>
> When I look at properties for my wireless card, I see no such power
> management tab, and no check box for the wake-on LAN function.
>
> So I called IBM tech support (usually pretty good) and ask the rep how
> to configure my wireless card so that I would have the wake-on LAN
> option. He said it's not possible because "the wireless card is on all
> the time and is always receiving signals from everywhere, so how would
> it know which signal is yours?" This answer betrayed a level of
> cluelessness that made me not trust it, but I couldn't get anything
> more useful out of him.
>
> It's hard for me to believe that Slim would build a wake-on LAN
> function into their wireless squeezebox, which then wouldn't work on a
> wireless network. I don't know where to turn at this point. My
> wireless
> card is an Intel pro/wireless LAN 2100 #3b.
>
> Any suggestions?
>
>
> --
> boybees
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
> boybees's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?
> userid=1153
> View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=17891
>
>

Michaelwagner
2005-11-05, 20:44
Nearly every ethernet card I've encountered does support WOL.I have some old ones that don't. Also, WOL requires at least an AT-X power supply and power to the lan card, so some older machines won't be able to support it even if the lan card does.


http://ietf.org/rfc/rfc1149.txtCute. Since that spec was released, we have a new source of packet loss ... Avian flu.

pfarrell
2005-11-05, 21:02
On Sat, 2005-11-05 at 19:44 -0800, Michaelwagner wrote:
> dean Wrote:
> > Nearly every ethernet card I've encountered does support WOL.

> I have some old ones that don't. Also, WOL requires at least an AT-X
> power supply and power to the lan card, so some older machines won't be
> able to support it even if the lan card does.

Pre ATX systems? drop them off the support list.
It has been a full year since Intel has been pushing BTX as
the only solution.

Sometimes you have to upgrade to something modestly modern
to get the cool new features. Its been years since I saw
a new system that had separate LAN cards, they have been
built into cheap motherboards for a long tiem.


--
Pat
http://www.pfarrell.com/music/slimserver/slimsoftware.html

stinkingpig
2005-11-05, 21:58
kdf wrote:...

>>
>>
> In my reading on the topic, it seemed to be widely acknolwedged that
> WOL over wireless didn't work. Annoyingly, no consistent reason was
> turning up. In som cases its the power requirements, or the 'not
> always connected' aspect of wireless, or even the example you give.
> When a computer is powered down, it may not have the wireless section
> of the hardware powered up, thus it would have no way to receive the
> packet.
>
> On the more positive side, I did hear of some claims that it can work,
> but only some hardware supported it. I don't know for sure if SB2
> broadcasts the packet over wireless or not, but assuming it does, your
> router would have to support it and then forward to the wireless card,
> which would also have to have some way of supporting it (not to
> mention support from the computer hardware as well).
>
> -k

WOL is a red-headed stephchild standard; no two vendors implement in
exactly the same way, and no vendor ships with it activated. It's a
"feature" in my day job's product and causes grief more than it causes
happiness.

--
Jack At Monkeynoodle Dot Org: It's A Scientific Venture!
"I spent all me tin with the ladies drinking gin
so across the Western ocean I must wander" -- trad.

Khuli
2005-11-08, 05:11
If your PC is not PCI2.2 you may need to:

a) enable WOL on the network card
b) enable WOL in the BIOS and
c) attach a WOL cable between the network card and motherboard.

oreillymj
2005-11-08, 05:37
Wake On LAN tends not to work with Wireless NICs because there is no power sent to the Wireless radio when the PC/laptop is in standy/sleep mode.

On an IBM Thinkpad, you'll see the Wireless led on the lid go off when the system is in standby. That means the radio has been shut down to save power.

Compare this to an ethernet NIC in a PC, where you'll see a link light on even when the PC is in standby.

Think about, the NIC must be "awake" to pickup the magic packets on the LAN.

There was a Wirless adapater for a PC mentioned on these forums that did support WOL. It was PCMCIA card in an adapter on a PCI card. It's the only wirless card that I've even seen to support WOL.


The other problem was that WinXP would only stay awake for about 5 minutes before going back to sleep. I contacted Microsoft support, but they basically fobbed me off. There is a KB article on Microsoft's support site which describes the issue and it's apparently meant to work that way "by design".

bernt
2005-11-08, 06:13
The other problem was that WinXP would only stay awake for about 5 minutes before going back to sleep. I contacted Microsoft support, but they basically fobbed me off. There is a KB article on Microsoft's support site which describes the issue and it's apparently meant to work that way "by design".

Ah! What's why my computer goes to sleep after a few minutes even if I set it to two hours.

Does this still happen if I set it to Never?

Jim
2005-11-08, 06:45
What about a Wireless Bridge (http://www.linksys.com/servlet/Satellite?childpagename=US%2FLayout&packedargs=c%3DL_Product_C2%26cid%3D1115416826519&pagename=Linksys%2FCommon%2FVisitorWrapper) ?

I know it's a waste of desk space & money but having a ethernet card equiped PC/laptop connecting via a very small wire to a bridge sitting next to it...and then being transmitted through the air would work...I'm 99.9% sure.

oreillymj
2005-11-08, 06:47
I could not find anyway of keeping my machine awake.

I even tried writing a small app which made a Windows API call to tell the system if was in use and required.

He's my post

http://forums.slimdevices.com/showpost.php?p=48087&postcount=21

and the KB article...

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;810719

Michaelwagner
2005-11-08, 07:00
If I read that right, a stream of WOL requests, 1 minute apart, would keep it awake.

Or "other activity" - not sure what would qualify, though. You'd think slim sending network traffic out would qualify.

oreillymj
2005-11-08, 10:22
If SD codes it, I certainly test the firmware update.
What I don't want is a PC in a Sleep/Wake/Sleep/Wake cycle.

I know that will shorten the life of my HD.

Michaelwagner
2005-11-08, 10:40
If SD codes it, I certainly test the firmware update.So submit an enhancement request.
It should be an optional activity, however, since it's meant to compensate for a bug in Microsoft code. I assume Linux boxes don't have the same problem, i.e. it doesn't sound like a hardware issue but a software one.

getprogs
2005-11-08, 10:51
Since the new firmware does the WMA ecoding on the SB, my slimserver is going into powersave since not enough activity is generated from the SB to the server (i.e. the server thinks the SB is powered off - SB2 to be exact ;-). This is particularly anoying when listening to Internet radio streams based on WMA, since I then have to do a WOL to the server just to adjust the volume or change to a different stream :-/

Both Windoze and LINUX based boxes must have this problem of entering powersave mode/runlevel whatever with the new firmware!

BR,
Claus Hansen

kdf
2005-11-08, 11:07
Quoting getprogs <getprogs.1y6w5n (AT) no-mx (DOT) forums.slimdevices.com>:

>
> Since the new firmware does the WMA ecoding on the SB, my slimserver is
> going into powersave since not enough activity is generated from the SB
> to the server (i.e. the server thinks the SB is powered off - SB2 to be
> exact ;-). This is particularly anoying when listening to Internet
> radio streams based on WMA, since I then have to do a WOL to the server
> just to adjust the volume or change to a different stream :-/
>
> Both Windoze and LINUX based boxes must have this problem of entering
> powersave mode/runlevel whatever with the new firmware!

There is a Keep Unswapped Interval setting (for keeping mysql
connection alive)
in server settings->performance. If you set this to some smaller number (than
30 minutes) it might give enough activity to keep the computer from going into
standby as long as the server is running. I haven't tested this, and have
suggested a couple times with no feedback. Let us know if that has any
effect.

-kdf

Dan Sully
2005-11-08, 11:16
* kdf shaped the electrons to say...

>There is a Keep Unswapped Interval setting (for keeping mysql
>connection alive)
>in server settings->performance. If you set this to some smaller number
>(than

This isn't actually a MySQL setting - but one for computers with poor virtual
memory management systems. IE: Windows.

-D
--
It is dark. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.

kdf
2005-11-08, 11:54
Quoting Dan Sully <dan (AT) slimdevices (DOT) com>:

> * kdf shaped the electrons to say...
>
>> There is a Keep Unswapped Interval setting (for keeping mysql
>> connection alive)
>> in server settings->performance. If you set this to some smaller
>> number (than
>
> This isn't actually a MySQL setting - but one for computers with poor virtual
> memory management systems. IE: Windows.

true enough :)
am I way off base thinking it might be just enough to keep windows from
shutting
off?

I'll stop suggesting it if it really has no chance of working
-k

Dan Sully
2005-11-08, 11:58
* kdf shaped the electrons to say...

>I'll stop suggesting it if it really has no chance of working

Well, it should have an effect. Just nothing to do with MySQL.

-D
--
On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero.

bernt
2005-11-08, 12:06
Both Windoze and LINUX based boxes must have this problem of entering powersave mode/runlevel whatever with the new firmware!

BR,
Claus Hansen

I think it is a Windows only problem. Read the last lines.

From the KB.
For example, if Wake-on-LAN is enabled on your computer, the computer resumes (or awakens) from standby or hibernation when it receives an ICMP Echo Request (ping request) from the network. After two minutes, if no other activity or ping requests from the network occur, the computer automatically returns to standby or hibernation.

This occurs because Wake-on-LAN is typically configured to return your computer to standby or hibernation after two minutes of inactivity.

getprogs
2005-11-09, 01:50
Cheers,

Prior to the firmware #26 released with 6.2, my setup was happily working! The SB2 would wake up my server, connect (after the 20 sec.s or so boot time) and I could start playing my netradio stations (using WMA streams).
Now, since the WMA decoding is done in the SB2, no traffic is generated from the SB2 to the server, and hence the server shuts down again thinking that the SB2 is powered off.

This is *not* related to any Windows XP bug etc., but simply a result of missing traffic from the SB2 to the server - I believe that a Linux box will also exhibit the same behaviour to preserve power.
It can be fixed by any sort of traffic from the SB2 to the server, not necessarily a WOL magic packet.

getprogs
2005-11-09, 01:51
it is not Wake on LAN that is configured to return my PC to hibernation, it is the OS...

kdf
2005-11-09, 01:59
On 9-Nov-05, at 12:50 AM, getprogs wrote:

>
> This is *not* related to any Windows XP bug etc., but simply a result
> of missing traffic from the SB2 to the server - I believe that a Linux
> box will also exhibit the same behaviour to preserve power.

you may believe, but real life says differently (thus far)

> It can be fixed by any sort of traffic from the SB2 to the server, not
> necessarily a WOL magic packet.
>
so try the setting for keep unswappedl, in server settings->behaviour.
if that's enough activity.

-kdf

oreillymj
2005-11-09, 03:56
By the way, I did some testing and found that the KB is not 100% accurate.

I used by SB2 to bring my PC out of standby. It then did a ping -t 192.168.2.3 <Server IP> to send a stream of pings to my server.

It still shut down after a few mins. The power settings on my PC have hibernation/standby set to never. The only thing set to power save is the monitor.

I also wrote a small app which called this Windows API function
"SetThreadExecutionState" using the execute plugin. See this article http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/power/base/system_sleep_criteria.asp
for an explanation on what this is supposed to do.

The system still shutdown. I believe this happened because the thread which made the call (my app) had ended.

It would appear that the actual Slimserver thread would need to make this API call to keep the server PC running until Slimserver is exited.

I can probably test this theory by adding a useless wait loop to my code just to keep the thread active and see what happens.

MrC
2005-11-09, 09:44
It is my understanding that there are two different behaviors with Windows and what seems to be collectively called "sleep" here.

1) For automatic shutdown/sleep/hibernate modes, the Windows Power Options controls the behavior.

2) Once the system is asleep, no matter how it got there, there is a 2 minute window to provide direct user input, or input via terminal services to log in. This allows admins to log in, do their thing, and have the system follow (1) above. If no log in occurs (actually, keyboard or mouse activity), the system goes back to the state it was in (sleep/hibernate) irrespective of (1).

If this is already clear to all, sorry for covering old ground.

Michaelwagner
2005-11-09, 10:23
2) Once the system is asleep, no matter how it got there, there is a 2 minute window to provide direct user input, or input via terminal services to log in. This allows admins to log in, do their thing, and have the system follow (1) above. If no log in occurs (actually, keyboard or mouse activity), the system goes back to the state it was in (sleep/hibernate) irrespective of (1).I thought the original purpose of WOL was to wake up a whole flock of machines in far flung locations, apply maintainance by having them run some kind of install script they fetch over a network, like the old office 2000 install or maintainance scripts, and then have the script power them down again. In this scenario, no one will ever wiggle a mouse or tap a key.

So how does this ever work? It can't be much of a script if it has to complete in 2 minutes. Or does MS expect that the maintainance will always be done by some kind of input services. I don't think you can count on your average bank teller machines to all run terminal servers ...


If this is already clear to all, sorry for covering old ground.No need to apologize. I don't think any of this is clear to anyone much yet. At least not me. :-)

MrC
2005-11-09, 10:58
While I was writing "actually, keyboard or mouse activity" I knew I was going to get called on my brevity, but didn't feel like filling in the rest.

It should have included "terminal services logins". Waking up a machine and expecting it to catch the 2 minute window would not be very reliable.

Bank tellers don't do anything w/their sysystem, but their admins configure the domain servers or Netware servers/logins and this controls the teller's systems. These types of environments have login scripts, where updates, patches, etc. are run upon terminal service login. User's typically won't remain logged on in such environments, and typically don't have priv's to update their systems. So the login required to do the admin updates are domain or server controlled and privileged.

Its all much more complicated than this; I was trying to simplify.

getprogs
2005-11-10, 03:20
Regardless of the posts from users who have never actually tried the setup:

With previous firmware versions of SB2 I *did not* (where is the font size 400 when you need it?) have any problems with my Slimserver (running Windows XP SP2, English, on an old P3 PC with a PCI NIC using WOL through the infamous wire from NIC to motherboard). The server would wake whenever the SB2 was turned on, the whole setup would play happily through the day/night/1 hour or whatever time I had to sit back and relax&enjoy music, and when I powered off the SB2 the Slimserver PC would go into hibernation after the (in the OS) specified amount of time (in my case 5 min.s, changed it from 10 min.s for energy reasons etc.).

Now, with the new firmware doing the WMA decoding the setup works perfectly (or as before ;-) whenever I play my ripped CDs, but when I switch to my netradio (which is a WMA stream) the server is no longer used by the SB2, and since it does not receive any traffic from the SB2 determines that the SB2 is powered off and hence shuts down according to the specified power setting.

The above should be fairly understandable, let me know where the film snaps if not...

What I need is some sort of traffic from the SB2 to the server, for instance every 2. minute, just to let it know that the SB2 is still powered on - on NO, this has nothing to do with any M$ bugs etc.!
Setting the server DB hack as proposed by kdf will either:
1) not work or
2) not let the server sleep, which means I am back to burning energy 7*24, which is NOT what I would like to do!
Not to say the suggestion is foolish, but it is in no way related to the (small) problem introduced by letting the SB2 do the WMA decoding, which as far as I can see is easily resolved by letting the SB2 talk to the server on a regurlar basis when the SB2 is powered on.

Best regards

MrC
2005-11-10, 09:49
Ouch getprogs!

Are you sure that simple "network activity" will keep the server system awake vs. the disk activity and process activity required by the server-based decoding that kept the system awake?

oreillymj
2005-11-10, 10:43
Yes, if you read my post. I did a test where I send a stream of Ping's to my server after WOL had woken the server.

It still went back to sleep.
And I was also playing mp'3 at the time.

So are you sure that your PC ever stayed awake after a WOL event?

MrC
2005-11-10, 13:27
I think we're miscommunicating. Early, you indicated:


Now, since the WMA decoding is done in the SB2, no traffic is generated from the SB2 to the server
I don't believe this is true. Run a packet sniffer and you'll see that there is plenty of network traffic on the 3483 control port. Traffic is constant.

You also mentioned that pings do not keep your system alive after a WOL. This agrees with my point earlier. Pings should not keep the system awake after WoL, because if they did, once a WoL was sent, other system's that might be pinging the target system could keep the system alive indefinitely! In Windows networks, there is constant network activity, such as browser activity (think windows network, not IE), domain server management, WINS activity, etc. Routers, managed switches, etc. can send a lot of directed traffic as well. Windows has to ignore the contstant noise on the network when setting its go-back-to-sleep timer, and only keep the system alive when there meaningful activity. Your ping tests are inconsequential. I was trying to communicate some of the things that Windows considers meaningful activity.

What changed in the firmware was not simply an elimination of server <-> SB# network activity. There are other variables here.

Personally, I don't not believe that sending an WoL every minute is the right thing to do.

getprogs
2005-11-11, 02:36
Cheers,
Did not figure I would get an "ouch" as reply - I am just trying to communicate my findings/experiences, not be rude (sorry)...:

Using previous versions of Slimserver and firmware #16 on my SB2 everything was working as previously described - WOL, server staying awake while SB2 powered on, server going into hibernation 5 min.s after SB2 powered off (and by "powered off" I mean that it still displayed the default time screen saver).

Upgrading to 6.2 and new firmware version (was it 26?), this stopped - I remember coming home from work the day after a late-night upgrade of the slimserver&firmware (meaning I did not test very thouroughly, just that it still played my ripped CDs and my netradio), my wife was listening to music but the SB2's display was blank (as in "server not present"). I asked her what was going on, and she said "it just plays radio by itself now"?! When pressing the power button it wakes up the server, but after the 5 min.s the server shuts down again.

I then tried:
1) Returning to the previous version of Slimserver (I always do a backup of the entire Slimserver installation before upgrading) with the new firmware, to no avail.
2) Returning to the previous version of Slimserver (I always do a backup of the entire Slimserver installation before upgrading) with the old firmware, problem solved
3) Returning to the new Slimserver version but still using the previous firmware version, problem solved

Maybe it is some other stuff in the firmware that is actually causing the missing "keep server alive while powered on" functionality, but I believe that it is the missing traffic resulting from local (SB2) WMA decoding.
I may just have to change my theses to:
Due to the much lower level of activity the server is shutting down (I have yet to install a network monitor on the machine, but maybe I should do that - could be interesting ;-). I still find it interesting that it is able to continue streaming the WMA even after the server has shut down if that much traffic is going on - I have even considered removing the default gateway info from the SB2 to see if that forces it to go through the server in some way, but I doubt that it will solve the problem.

Maybe I am just lucky that I have a very old PC that does not wake and then shuts down as stated in the MS knowledgebase article (I believe it is so, since I do not have the "power management" tab for the NIC)? Maybe I could just stay on firmware #16, but in the long run new versions of slimserver may require firmware update of the device, meaning that I am also stuck on the slimserver version?! Or maybe, just maybe, we (me, you, somebody) finds a small, elegang fix (which as far as I can see must be implemented into the firmware, since having the server keeping itself alive is not a viable option in my book - seems too much like it will never shut down, then....)

Hm - may I never get so far that I wish I was still stuck with my +600 CDs and my old FM radio :-)

Best regards,

MrC
2005-11-11, 09:17
SB2 has a very large buffer, so the music can continue to play after server shutdown, until the buffer is exhausted. You'll see no screen updates, because that's controlled via the server. Remember that contstant network activity I mentioned, even duing native WMA playback?

I believe what has changed is that the newer firmware has reduced the load on the server in general. Windows is finding very little activity, and therefore goes into its sleep countdown.

It is commonly acccepted that users should not enable automatic sleep/hibernate when using their systems as servers.

Keeping the web connection open and auto refreshing on the server does keep the server alive. But as you noted, the server will never shutdown.

Perhaps herein lies hints to the solution for you. With KDFs Execute.pm plugin, you could configure it to open the web browser to keep the server alive, and use it again to close the web browser when you turn on your SB2. Alternatively, you could use a utility to change your power profile in the same fashion as above; you'd select your Never Off profile when playing music, and revert to your previous power profile when done.

danco
2005-11-11, 10:19
On 11/11/05 at 08:17 -0800, MrC wrote
>It is commonly acccepted that users should not enable automatic
>sleep/hibernate when using their systems as servers.

As far as I can tell, on my Mac running SlimServer actually prevents
Energy Saver from putting the machine to sleep. I can do so manually
from a menu or from the command-line. The only reason I know about
the command-line is that I have a script to send the machine to
sleep, and I can use execute.pm to put it to sleep from the SB.
--
Daniel Cohen

MrC
2005-11-11, 11:45
Sorry, that comment was meant for Windows. Different platforms, as you've noticed, have different rules.

danco
2005-11-11, 13:15
On 11/11/05 at 10:45 -0800, MrC wrote
>Sorry, that comment was meant for Windows. Different platforms, as
>you've noticed, have different rules.
>

If that was intended as a reply to my post, yes I did realise that
different systems behave differently in regard to waking and
sleeping. I thought it was useful to mention how Macs behaved, as not
all Mac users with an SB may have noticed this.

But perhaps I should have made it clearer that I wasn't disagreeing
with you or other posters, just indicating some differences.

--
Daniel Cohen

xio
2005-11-30, 06:04
well, I tried this but it didn't keep my mac alive :-(

danco
2005-11-30, 08:48
On 30/11/05 at 05:04 -0800, xio wrote
>well, I tried this but it didn't keep my mac alive :-(
>

What version of the OS? What version of SlimServer?

For me wake-on-Lan wakes the computer, and once SlimServer is on the
computer will not sleep automatically at a time set by EnergySaver.

This is on OS 10.4.3, SlimServer 6.2.1.

Someone else reported that with SlimServer 6.2.2 (and IIRC on some
earlier versions) having SlimServer on does not prevent EnergySaver
putting the computer to sleep.


--
Daniel Cohen

xio
2005-11-30, 14:46
Sorry, should have been more specific. Running OSX 10.4.3 with slimserver version 6.2.1 (or in other words the same as you).

Only other thing is that I've got a ups connected to it, but I can't see how that should make a difference. Energy settings are to allow the hard disk to sleep (though this doesn't seem to make a difference either way). Machine is set to sleep after 3 hours, and it does this regardless of whether its playing music or not. It wakes ok when I hit power on the squeezebox remote.

Don't think it's relevant but the machine is configured for wireless keyboard and mouse but is running headless.

danco
2005-12-01, 02:00
Well, I just double-checked, and with a Sleep time of 15 minutes, hard drive set to sleep whenever possible, I played for 30 minutes without a problem.

The difference may be that I was playing a BBC Listen Again stream, so as long as the computer itself was not asleep, it would not matter if the hard drive was asleep.

Things for you to try, if you can on a headless machine. What happens if the hard drive is set not to go to sleep? Is there any way of checking whether the computer itself is awake?

danco
2005-12-01, 04:22
On 1/12/05 at 01:00 -0800, danco wrote
>Things for you to try, if you can on a headless machine. What happens
>if the hard drive is set not to go to sleep?

Though, from things I have read, using EnergySaver to set the hard
drive not to sleep does not actually work unless the computer itself
is also set not to sleep.
--
Daniel Cohen

xio
2005-12-01, 06:13
The mac is not connected to the internet, so I can't try streaming which would generate a different workload on the server.

I've tried the hard drive sleep setting on or off but it makes no difference.

The squeezebox is plugged directly into the mac with a 'standard' rj45 cable (not a crossover) - utilising the auto-sensing on the port. Don't know if that should make a difference though.

The computer is definitely asleep - it goes quiet and the power light starts pulsing ;-)


The setup might be a little unusual, but I'm building it to leave in a holiday apartment in France where I won't have connections or support. My 'main' setup at home runs 24x7 on a linux machine where I don't want it to sleep.

don_quay
2005-12-23, 06:24
I've just raised a bug sheet for the WOL issue described below - Bug number 2746. Please vote for this...

Setup:
Ethernet to wireless router, then wireless to SB2. XP settings on the network
card set to allow PC to be woken by WOL packet, and Admin Only checkbox also
checked.

Steps to reproduce:
1. Configure WOL on network card, as above. Set Power Saving settings on the PC
to make the PC go into standby after 5 minutes (or whatever).
2. Put the computer into standby (either by automatically or manually will
produce the same result).
3. Turn on the SB2. This will wake up the PC. Build a playlist (doesn't matter
how - either using browse albums or random mix or whatever). Start listening to
the music.

Actual Results:
After the pre-determined length of time set in Power Saving, the PC goes back
to sleep. Once the buffer empties, the SB2 stops playing.

Expected Results:
The PC stays awake until the SB2 is turned "off" (by using the power button on
the SB2 remote). Once the SB2 is turned off, the PC should then start the
standby countdown as usual (dependant on whatever else is running on it, of
course!). In other words, the SB2 should do something on the PC that keeps it
awake.

P.S I love my Squeezebox. After Xmas I'll be loving BOTH of my Squeezeboxes!
Happy Christmas, and keep up the good work!

kdf
2005-12-23, 11:45
On 23-Dec-05, at 5:24 AM, don_quay wrote:

>
> I've just raised a bug sheet for this issue. Please vote for this...
>
> Ethernet to wireless router, then wireless to SB2. XP settings on the
> network
> card set to allow PC to be woken by WOL packet, and Admin Only checkbox
> also
> checked.
>
Is this not just another case of the windows XP feature?? Without
direct input via mouse or keyboard, xp goes back to sleep after WOL
-kdf

danco
2005-12-23, 14:33
On 23/12/05 at 10:45 -0800, kdf wrote
>On 23-Dec-05, at 5:24 AM, don_quay wrote:
>
>>
>>I've just raised a bug sheet for this issue. Please vote for this...
>>
>>Ethernet to wireless router, then wireless to SB2. XP settings on the
>>network
>>card set to allow PC to be woken by WOL packet, and Admin Only checkbox
>>also
>>checked.
>>
>Is this not just another case of the windows XP feature?? Without
>direct input via mouse or keyboard, xp goes back to sleep after WOL
>-kdf

Yes, but as I understand the original post, the idea was that the SB
would send a WOL packet every 115 (sat) seconds while it was on. It
does sound a good idea for an option (an option only, as Macs don't
seem to need it) if it is practical.

--
Daniel Cohen

mkdprice
2006-01-01, 15:35
First of all, many thanks to those of you who have posted your experiences here -- reading though them helped answer a lot of my questions as I chose and then configured my Squeezeboxes.

To save power and noise, I didn't want the WinXP machine on which I have SlimServer installed to run 24/7; I prefer to leave it in standby, and use the wireless SB3's wake-on-lan feature to bring it up when needed. However, as is the case with others in these forums, my server also connects to the network wirelessly. Since most wireless cards don't support wake-on-lan, I needed to find a workaround. Due to server placement, I can't simply connect the server to my router with ethernet cable; the server has to be wireless.

As many before have mentioned, the issue with getting WoL to work is that, although the signal can be sent wirelessly, it ultimately needs to be _received_ through a wired NIC for the computer to wake up. So I needed to find a way to convert that wireless WoL signal to something that could be pushed through the wired NIC of a wireless PC. Following from a variant on Jim's suggestion in this thread on 08 Nov, here's what I did (it requires some extra hardware lying around, but it works):

1) PC running SlimServer has two NICs: 1 wireless and 1 wired. This PC connects to a wireless router, and the internet, through the wireless NIC.

2) I had a second (disused) Netgear wireless router lying around. Since the wired NIC on the server was unused, and _does_ provide wake-on-lan capability, I connected this wired NIC to one of the wired ports on the second router. There is nothing "upstream" of this router. It just sits atop my wireless server, unconnected to the outside world. Its sole purpose is to serve Squeezeboxes via the _wired_ NIC on the PC. The PC, though, is still wireless. There's no Cat5 connecting it to the "primary" router, and no Cat5 between the secondary and primary routers.

3) I configured the second router to create a new wireless network (call it "SqueezeboxesOnly" or some such). Now there are two wireless networks in the house: the original network, which all the PCs (including the server) connect to and use to get online, and the second network, which only the Squeezeboxes (and the server, through its wired port) use.

4) Because the server is connected to a router through its wired NIC, when a Squeezebox sends a WoL signal wirelessly, my secondary router routes it to the PC through the ethernet cable, and the PC rouses from its sleep.

5) Windows, for all its faults, behaves happily with two functional NICs. The PC maintains a wireless connection to the original network, allowing internet traffic to get through, while the wired connection to the SqueezeboxesOnly network handles music.

6) The only problem in this setup is that the Squeezeboxes can't yet connect to the internet -- they can only connect to the SlimServer, because there's nothing upstream of the dedicated wireless router they're on (they can still display RSS feeds, though, since the PC that sends them to each SB3 can connect to the internet). I'm hopeful that WinXP's network bridging feature will help rectify this, but I haven't been able to get it work yet.

Nonetheless, having the ability to do a wake-on-lan to a wireless PC is worth the lack of internet connectivity to me, since I don't listen to much internet radio (I prefer XM ;)

(And for what it's worth, I don't seem to be having the problem that others have mentioned about the PC not staying awake after WoL; I actually have the opposite problem - it won't go back to sleep after no activity from the SB3, even after the timeout specified in Power Management).

Perhaps this will help someone else...

don_quay
2006-01-26, 03:37
Reply to KDF -

>Is this not just another case of the windows XP feature?? Without
>direct input via mouse or keyboard, xp goes back to sleep after WOL
>-kdf

According to Getprogs (posting on a related thread), the previous version of the SB firmware made the PC do all the work of decoding and (as a side-effect) the effort on the PC meant that it stayed awake. This would imply that by making the PC to do some busy-work periodically, it could be forced to stay awake while the SB is playing.

Joe Dowling
2006-02-24, 12:08
I am running Slimserver connected by cable to a Netgear wireless router. My Squeezebox 3 connects wirelessly to the router. This works fine and the SB3 wakes up the PC running Slimserver.
I would like to connect the PC wirelessly. I have tried doing this by connecting a wireless Netgear Printer Server/Bridge (WGPS606) via cable to the PC nic. This works well for streaming music but it does not wake up the PC. The PC has to be woken manually. Has anyone else tried this or similar.

Michaelwagner
2006-02-24, 12:22
Do I understand properly? You have a wired connection from PC to WGPS606, then go wireless to the Netgear router?

I think you have to speak to Netgear customer support and find out whether they will pass on the "magic packet" that does WOL. They *should*, but that's not the same as *they do*.

iRob
2010-02-26, 13:05
I can confirm that with Squeezebox Server 7.4.2 running on OS X 10.6.2, I am also now seeing my iMac fall asleep though I am playing mp3 tracks on my Boom from the iMac’s iTunes library. WOL wakes up the iMac, but my Boom doesn’t keep it awake.

The plugin that was written on the bug report page:
http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2746

seems to be for Windows only. What would it take to make this work for Mac?