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View Full Version : WPA Personal vs. WPA-TKIP



Mark Lanctot
2005-10-28, 11:08
Hello!

I've been debating getting a Squeezebox for about
18 months now. With the SB2s on clearout I
finally saw my chance. Shipping was fantastic,
from Sunnyvale, CA to me (London, ON, Canada) in
about 18 hours.

Very impressed so far!

But I'm trying to configure the unit to work with
my wireless network...without much success. I'm
troubleshooting it 5 feet away from my SMC
2804WBRP-G router, latest firmware. I have
disabled SSID so I typed in the SSID on the SB2.
I have WPA-TKIP with a passphrase of maximum
length (63 characters) so I entered that in,
checked, double-checked and triple-checked.
However, I can't connect. It waits 20 seconds and
times out.

I entered its MAC address in my router table.

I don't have DHCP enabled but I haven't even
gotten to the part where I can enter the IP
address. It'll be fixed.

Just to see if networking is working at all, I
tried wiring it to the LAN switch on my router.
Works beautifully with my SlimServer PC
(SlimServer 6.1.1, I've read about the 6.2 issues.)

So it's a wireless issue.

Questions:

1. The manual and the SB2 keeps referring to the
encryption as "WPA Personal". I'm using WPA-TKIP.
I assume there's no difference? The passphrase
I'm entering is not in hex, and the SB2 happily
accepted it.

2. Should I change channels on my router?

3. When entering SSID, I have a suspicion SB2
thinks there are some trailing spaces in the name.
There aren't, but I can't seem to check or to
delete them in the SB2. Is this a problem?

I am in an RF-noisy environment, less than 1 km
away from a powerful radio antenna and in range of
3-4 other wireless networks. Wi-fi devices can
connect to my router at "54 Mbps" but real-time
speed is limited to 13 Mbps because of this.
Should still be enough to connect, and more than
enough bandwidth even for lossless (the .flacs I
have are less than 1 Mbps).

Thanks for any help you can provide.
--
___________________________________


Mark Lanctot
___________________________________

MrC
2005-10-28, 11:17
1. The manual and the SB2 keeps referring to the
encryption as "WPA Personal". I'm using WPA-TKIP.
I assume there's no difference? The passphrase
I'm entering is not in hex, and the SB2 happily
accepted it.
WPA-TKIP for your router would be WPA Personal. Passphrases don't have to be hex. Just make sure the letter case matches.


2. Should I change channels on my router?
You might need to later; depends on how things work out.

3. When entering SSID, I have a suspicion SB2
thinks there are some trailing spaces in the name.
There aren't, but I can't seem to check or to
delete them in the SB2. Is this a problem?
Try enabling SSID broadcast on your router first, and reset SB2 and let if find the broadcast'd SSID. If that works, you can later disable broadcasting of the SSID.

I am in an RF-noisy environment, less than 1 km
away from a powerful radio antenna and in range of
3-4 other wireless networks. Wi-fi devices can
connect to my router at "54 Mbps" but real-time
speed is limited to 13 Mbps because of this.
Should still be enough to connect, and more than
enough bandwidth even for lossless (the .flacs I
have are less than 1 Mbps).
Once you get connected, you can try various channels to determine best settings. You might even be able to work with your neighbors to ensure you channels do not overlap or conflict.

Mark Lanctot
2005-10-28, 11:56
Dang, I just can't connect.

I've tried the following:

- enabling SSID. It seems to see it, but I don't
know if this is just what I entered before.

- disabling all encryption, disabling all firewalls

- changing modes (b&g clients, b only)

- disabling "g nitro"

- turning on DHCP

I was actually able to connect to a neighbour's
wireless connection. I wasn't able to do
anything, but I was able to connect.

Plus wired works fine, which means I have no MAC
address issues, no firewall issues, no port
mapping issues.

If I can't connect with all encryption/firewalls
disabled, what more is there to do? How much
simpler than that can it get? :-(

Thanks for your help, MrC.

MrC wrote:
>>1. The manual and the SB2 keeps referring to the
>>encryption as "WPA Personal". I'm using WPA-TKIP.
>>I assume there's no difference? The passphrase
>>I'm entering is not in hex, and the SB2 happily
>>accepted it.
>
> WPA-TKIP for your router would be WPA Personal.
Passphrases don't have
> to be hex. Just make sure the letter case matches.
>

--
___________________________________


Mark Lanctot
___________________________________

radish
2005-10-28, 12:16
If I were doing this, I'd set all the router options to the most basic (g only, no encryption, SSID on, no MAC filtering, etc). Then I'd do a hard reset of the SB2 (unplug power, press and hold Add, reconnect power, wait for "FACTORY RESET..." and release Add). In my experience, when switching network settings (e.g. WEP on/off) the SB2 needs a nudge to pick up the new config.

Assuming that worked, I'd then start switching everything back on. If that doesn't work, well then I'd come back to the forum for more help :)

MrC
2005-10-28, 12:20
Agreed with the last post. Also, change your SSID on the router to something simple. This will be easier for you to manually enter later for testing, and furthermore, tell you if you are picking up and using the automatically found SSID vs. the on you manually entered earlier.

Hang in there - you'll get it!

Mark Lanctot
2005-10-28, 12:47
Thanks, I'll try that.

I would hate to send it back. It works so well
wired and it's so cool I don't know what I'd do if
I had to return it...I've been playing around with
it (wired), and it's so easy to use I don't even
need the manual (I can assure you though, I have
read it several times in its entirety!)

When I connected to SqueezeNetwork it asked to
upgrade its firmware at least 3 times through? I
said yes every time. It's now at firmware 15.

Also why does it ask for my country/region? I
answered it correctly (Canada) but since I've
never been asked this before my router might be
set to U.S.? I assume this is for wireless power
to comply with local codes.

radish wrote:
> If I were doing this, I'd set all the router options
to the most basic
> (g only, no encryption, SSID on, no MAC filtering,
etc). Then I'd do a
> hard reset of the SB2 (unplug power, press and hold
Add, reconnect
> power, wait for "FACTORY RESET..." and release Add).
In my experience,
> when switching network settings (e.g. WEP on/off)
the SB2 needs a nudge
> to pick up the new config.
>
> Assuming that worked, I'd then start switching
everything back on. If
> that doesn't work, well then I'd come back to the
forum for more help
> :)
>
>

--
___________________________________


Mark Lanctot
___________________________________

Mark Lanctot
2005-10-28, 13:44
<sigh>

Tried this. Just so that we're clear what I tried:

- all encryption off

- SSID on

- SSID changed to "test" (and it finds it!)

- g only

- all firewalling, including MAC address
filtering, disabled

- factory reset

- reboot of router

- changed router "speed mode" from automatic to 54
Mbps

- changed router wireless channel from 9 to Auto,
then to 6 (which is default)

Still no connection.

I'll give Slim tech support a call. I'm starting
to suspect my router (stupid thing). It's quite
rare, does anyone else use an SB2 with an SMC
2804WBRP-G? It uses a Conexant PRISM 2 chipset,
which is fairly rare.

radish wrote:
> If I were doing this, I'd set all the router options
to the most basic
> (g only, no encryption, SSID on, no MAC filtering,
etc). Then I'd do a
> hard reset of the SB2 (unplug power, press and hold
Add, reconnect
> power, wait for "FACTORY RESET..." and release Add).
In my experience,
> when switching network settings (e.g. WEP on/off)
the SB2 needs a nudge
> to pick up the new config.
>
> Assuming that worked, I'd then start switching
everything back on. If
> that doesn't work, well then I'd come back to the
forum for more help
> :)
>
>

--
___________________________________


Mark Lanctot, marklanctot (AT) yahoo (DOT) ca
___________________________________

radish
2005-10-28, 13:52
I used to use an SMC router, though I'm not sure if it was that model (probably not as it was WEP only, no WPA). Two problems with it - it only supported Open System WEP (SB only supports Shared Mode) and it routinely dropped connections. However, it generally worked OK with the SB provided WEP was off.

Mark Lanctot
2005-10-28, 14:34
Down to router firmware now. I've tried
everything else. I even called Slim tech support.

I'm losing hope here. :-(

I notice that the router and SB2 aren't even
trying to talk to each other. Usually when a
client tries to access the router, the WLAN light
should indicate activity. But it's just
rock-solid. No activity at all.

Even if I was getting WPA wrong (impossible
because encryption is now off) there should be
some WLAN activity before connection is denied.

I'd rather chuck the router rather than the SB2,
but I can return the SB2 and not the router, so
I'll fool around with firmware this weekend, and
then back the SB2 goes...

I'm out well over $100 here with non-refundable
shipping and taxes that so I'm both saddened and
P.O.'ed that it isn't working out.

Mark Lanctot wrote:
> <sigh>
>
> Tried this. Just so that we're clear what I tried:
>
> - all encryption off
>
> - SSID on
>
> - SSID changed to "test" (and it finds it!)
>
> - g only
>
> - all firewalling, including MAC address
> filtering, disabled
>
> - factory reset
>
> - reboot of router
>
> - changed router "speed mode" from automatic to 54
> Mbps
>
> - changed router wireless channel from 9 to Auto,
> then to 6 (which is default)
>
> Still no connection.
>
> I'll give Slim tech support a call. I'm starting
> to suspect my router (stupid thing). It's quite
> rare, does anyone else use an SB2 with an SMC
> 2804WBRP-G? It uses a Conexant PRISM 2 chipset,
> which is fairly rare.
>
> radish wrote:
>
>>If I were doing this, I'd set all the router options
>
> to the most basic
>
>>(g only, no encryption, SSID on, no MAC filtering,
>
> etc). Then I'd do a
>
>>hard reset of the SB2 (unplug power, press and hold
>
> Add, reconnect
>
>>power, wait for "FACTORY RESET..." and release Add).
>
> In my experience,
>
>>when switching network settings (e.g. WEP on/off)
>
> the SB2 needs a nudge
>
>>to pick up the new config.
>>
>>Assuming that worked, I'd then start switching
>
> everything back on. If
>
>>that doesn't work, well then I'd come back to the
>
> forum for more help
>
>>:)
>>
>>
>
>

--
___________________________________


Mark Lanctot
___________________________________

seanadams
2005-10-28, 14:38
Can you try it on a freind or neighbor's WLAN just to confirm SB2 is okay?

seanadams
2005-10-28, 14:46
Also I don't think your router is using the Conexant (aka Intersil) Prism 2 chipset. That is a quite old 802.11b chipset.

Anyway the chipset isn't so important - usually compatibility problems come for higher level firmware, so we can't draw conclusions from just hardware specs.

Mark Lanctot
2005-10-28, 15:39
I just worked my way through 5 firmware versions
to no avail. There are more versions out there
and I may try a couple more.

Looking around the net, it appears my router is
just flooded with firmware problems. Some cause
the print server to stop working, some cause WPA
to stop working, and I even tried one that caused
wireless to stop working entirely.

So what I'm going to do is buy a new router this
weekend, and I'm going to buy one of the most
popular and widely-used ones: the Linksys WRT54G.
Even though my SMC is less than a year old,
I'll either eBay it or use it as a doorstop. I'm
infuriated by it and I'm positive it's the cause
of all my woes.

Since I can connect to my neighbour's Linksys I'm
sure I can connect to a new one.

I considered the Linksys originally but reviews
indicated the Broadcom chipset it uses isn't so
great at long range. Which I will be doing,
unfortunately.

But what I will do tonight is enjoy my new SB2
courtesy of a 50' Cat5 cable I have lying around. ;-)

seanadams wrote:
> Also I don't think your router is using the Conexant
(aka Intersil)
> Prism 2 chipset. That is a quite old 802.11b
chipset.
>
> Anyway the chipset isn't so important - usually
compatibility problems
> come for higher level firmware, so we can't draw
conclusions from just
> hardware specs.
>
>

--
___________________________________


Mark Lanctot, marklanctot (AT) yahoo (DOT) ca
___________________________________

kolepard
2005-10-28, 16:02
>popular and widely-used ones: the Linksys WRT54G

For that router, you can what looks like some very nice firmware from
Sveasoft (www.sveasoft.com) that expands its functionality. I
haven't tried it, but it looks pretty nice.

Kevin
--
Kevin O. Lepard
kolepard (AT) charter (DOT) net

Happiness is being 100% Microsoft free.

radish
2005-10-28, 16:13
Sounds like a good move. I've heard good things about the Linksys. FWIW I use the Netgear ones and they work just fine. I see them discounted/rebated more often than the Linksys so you might be able to get a good deal (I've seen the model I use for under $30).

Mark Lanctot
2005-10-28, 16:32
I really would love to, but based on the success I've
had lately and the amount of money this project has
come to I'm afraid I'd brick it. ;-)

However the Sveasoft firmware can expand range and
signal strength dramatically, I hear.

The good news is that it's on sale this weekend and
there's a mail-in rebate too. Sale: $15 off, rebate,
$15 off, total $30 off.

BTW I am now thoroughly enjoying my SB2 over wired.
It sounds very, very good. The only way I could
listen to files in my PC before was to transfer them
to my PocketPC and play it back from the PPC's
headphone output. Needless to say, it was pretty
crappy.

It's good that the crappiness originated in the player
and not the files themselves.

--- "Kevin O. Lepard" <kolepard (AT) charter (DOT) net> wrote:

> >popular and widely-used ones: the Linksys WRT54G
>
> For that router, you can what looks like some very
> nice firmware from
> Sveasoft (www.sveasoft.com) that expands its
> functionality. I
> haven't tried it, but it looks pretty nice.
>
> Kevin
> --
> Kevin O. Lepard
> kolepard (AT) charter (DOT) net
>
> Happiness is being 100% Microsoft free.
>

Robin Bowes
2005-10-29, 15:40
Kevin O. Lepard said the following on 29/10/2005 00:02:
>> popular and widely-used ones: the Linksys WRT54G
>
>
> For that router, you can what looks like some very nice firmware from
> Sveasoft (www.sveasoft.com) that expands its functionality. I haven't
> tried it, but it looks pretty nice.

I use Talisman/Basic on my WRT54GS. It does work very nicely.

However, I renewed my Sveasoft subscription in June and have not been
able to access the latest downloads despite several messages to Sveasoft. :(

R.
--
http://robinbowes.com

If a man speaks in a forest,
and his wife's not there,
is he still wrong?

Mark Lanctot
2005-10-29, 15:49
Turns out that the one I got is a v4. Good thing
because the v5s don't support 3rd party firmware at
all.

Sveasoft Alchemy is incompatible but I tried "DD-WRT",
based on Alchemy, which works OK. Talisman will
apparently work with v4s.

DD-WRT does allow the much-sought after 900% signal
boost, but at a cost - the documentation indicates
this causes the radio chipset to overheat.

I'm at the default 28 mW and my SB2 is happy at 80-85%
signal stregth. I've been all afternoon playing
music, not one stutter.

--- Robin Bowes <robin-lists (AT) robinbowes (DOT) com> wrote:

> Kevin O. Lepard said the following on 29/10/2005
> 00:02:
> >> popular and widely-used ones: the Linksys WRT54G
> >
> >
> > For that router, you can what looks like some very
> nice firmware from
> > Sveasoft (www.sveasoft.com) that expands its
> functionality. I haven't
> > tried it, but it looks pretty nice.
>
> I use Talisman/Basic on my WRT54GS. It does work
> very nicely.
>
> However, I renewed my Sveasoft subscription in June
> and have not been
> able to access the latest downloads despite several
> messages to Sveasoft. :(
>
> R.
> --
> http://robinbowes.com
>
> If a man speaks in a forest,
> and his wife's not there,
> is he still wrong?
>
>