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Gatchers
2005-10-17, 06:02
Hi,

Okay, looks like I'm having a similar issue to some other posters - my network seems to be rock solid, including my SB2's connection to SlimServer, but, if for whatever reason there is some kind of disconnection (restarting PC, etc) I find it difficult to connect back to SlimServer from the SB2.

Sometimes, when this happens, I can still connect to SqueezeNetwork - but if I move back and try to set up my wireless connection again, I can't connect to anything. I'm seeing '0%' appear occasionally in the wireless strength indicator even though I can test right next to my router and watch it display '95%...95%...0%...05%'.

Sometimes I've seen it get as far as trying to acquire an address and complain that it couldn't do that. And sometimes, after many retries, I can finally connect. It seems as if the procedure to 'camp' onto the network seems to be interrupted by dropouts that occur for some reason I'm not sure of.

I don't have any 2.4GHz cordless phones nearby either. None of my other devices appear to have this problem. As I said, once it's connected, it seems to run fine - playing radio constantly for days.

Sadly, as I'm using this as an alarm clock, it's a bit dangerous if it can't reconnect :-)

The reproducability makes it difficult to know what is affecting or helping it - the whole PBCC thing may be a red herring, now.

Is there anything I can turn on to help debug this? I'm running SlimServer 6.1.1 at the moment and firmware 15. I'll happily upgrade if anyoner thinks that some issue may have been fixed which might be affecting me - I was planning to move to the bleeding edge once I was more familiar with what you get by default anyway.

Thanks,

Gatchers
2005-10-17, 06:03
Oh - I have tried changing channel by the way, it didn't help.

narlus
2005-10-17, 07:22
hey Gatchers - i wish i had the magic bullet for you, but i don't. yr issues sound very similar to mine. sounds like i may have sorted mine out, as long as my PC isn't so unstable that it keeps crashing. i hope the restore took care of it. otherwise, i'm about ready to drop some $ for new wireless class g hardware. i don't have any 2.4 GHz cordless phones either, and my neighbors are in free-standing houses ~150 feet away at a minimum.

one thing i can't understand (and it's probably because my knowledge of wireless networks is so shallow) is that why can't the hardware re-connect automatically if a connection is dropped?

Gatchers
2005-10-17, 07:44
Well, I've just moved up to the nightly releases, meaning an upgrade to Firmware 24 - unfortunately, no joy - it took several hours before I finally got a reconnect to be able to do it, nothing changed during that time, I get the feeling the length of the negotiation increaes the chance that the '0%' dropout stops everything working. When I did upgrade, it has acted the same.

At the time of writing, I've not been able to connect to SlimServer since the firmware upgrade, but that's not any different to when I had to connect wih the earlier firmware - it seemed like random luck when it did happen. But, when connected, it was solid...

Gatchers
2005-10-17, 07:56
Connected. I've found that if I leave it on 'Connecting to wieless network' then at some random point in the future it will eventually connect(?) then after that the chances of connecting to SlimServer or SqueezeNetwork are a lot higher.

So, I'm now running a 20051017 build.

Cheers,

rme
2005-10-17, 11:21
Several (many?) of us have been having the exact same issue. Sometimes when it says "connecting to slimserver" if you press the power button it magically connects.

What router do you have? I spoke to Kevin in Slim support and he told me there were problems with DLink routers. I have a DI-624. However, I don't believe this is a dlink issue as I have 3 other pc's with various internal wireless cards and they all have no problem with connecting to my router.

narlus
2005-10-17, 11:35
my setup is all linksys stuff, 801.b (fairly old too; 4 port router and WAP11). i've never had a networked laptop drop a connection.

tubesguy
2005-10-17, 16:22
Similar problem with a 3Com router. I've found that I can reliably connect by repeating setup ... just like I can reliably scan iTunes by downloading and installing a new version of 6.1.1. :-( - Pat

Gatchers
2005-10-17, 17:11
Hi

My router is a 2WIRE HomePortal 1800HG DSL router.

Sadly, the power trick doesn't work for me :-(

We've got 3 notebooks here at the moment, one PC Desktop, an iMac G5, a Palm LifeDrive, an iPaq and 2 PSPs all of which happily hop on and off the wireless network without problems. For my testing, I've reduced the number of devices on the network to just the SB2...

Since I disconnected last night I haven't been able to get back on again. The furthest it seems to have got to (after a very long time) is failing to acquire a network address, coming up with that default address I've seen referred to in other threads, and a gateway address of 0.0.0.0 etc.

rme
2005-10-17, 18:33
Maybe it's time for Slim to start helping us figure out what's going wrong as it's apparently not just a "dlink" issue.

The hard part obviously is that there are so many variables to wireless connection that could be beyond the sb2's problem.

However, if you have:
- No 2.4ghz phones in my house
- 3 other wireless pc's that connect no problem from the exact same location as the sb2
- Constant wireless strength of 40+%
- Many other people with the same issues with only the sb2 wireless giving 0% signal, then 100% then count down to the true signal strength
- Many people having the same hanging connecting to slimserver issue

Then it's not too far fetched that there just might be a problem with the wireless hardware, firmware or software in sb.

dean
2005-10-17, 21:42
We'd love details about your setup (hardware model, firmware version,
etc.) and a detailed description of the issue.

Please feel free to post here AND file bug reports on http://
bugs.slimdevices.com or contact support (AT) slimdevices (DOT) com.

We do do compatibility testing, but there are a wide variety of
routers out there with their own unique bugs, so we need this
information to try to reproduce.


On Oct 17, 2005, at 6:33 PM, rme wrote:

>
> Maybe it's time for Slim to start helping us figure out what's going
> wrong as it's apparently not just a "dlink" issue.
>
> The hard part obviously is that there are so many variables to
> wireless
> connection that could be beyond the sb2's problem.
>
> However, if you have:
> - No 2.4ghz phones in my house
> - 3 other wireless pc's that connect no problem from the exact same
> location as the sb2
> - Constant wireless strength of 40+%
> - Many other people with the same issues with only the sb2 wireless
> giving 0% signal, then 100% then count down to the true signal
> strength
> - Many people having the same hanging connecting to slimserver issue
>
> Then it's not too far fetched that there just might be a problem with
> the wireless hardware, firmware or software in sb.
>
>
> --
> rme
>

cbemoore
2005-10-17, 23:54
I'm seeing problems too.

I'm running the latest Slimserver SVN on Windows XP. Both my server and my 2 Squeezeboxen are connected wirelessly to a Netgear DG834G router.

If the server loses contact with the network (eg if I reboot my server), then the squeezeboxes reconnect correctly as soon as the server is available again.

However, if I restart a squeezebox (eg firmware update or just pull the plug and reconnect), the squeezebox will *sometimes* not connect to the server. Instead, it will just display "Searching for Slimserver" for a few seconds and then go to a blank screen.

To force the squeezebox to connect to the server, I need to press "Left" (which takes me back to "Set Up Networking" and then just keep pressing "Right" to confirm all the existing networking parameters (the parameters are already filled in correctly). The Squeezebox will then reconnect straight away.

Alternatively, (as already mentioned by someone else) you can leave the squeezebox alone and it will sometimes eventually connect at some random point in the future.

Any more details you need?

Chris

jhwilliams
2005-10-18, 02:08
I've been having this issue also.

At random my sb2 either couldn't connect to either the slimserver or the wifi.

In the case of the server, I found the issue was actually DHCP leases expiring. I assigned static IPs for the MAC addresses of the SB2 and the server in my router and this issue vanished.

As for the wifi dropping out - I haven't worked it out yet and seems to be the same issue discussed here. Going through the wireless setup (selecting everything again) seems to restore connection 99% of the time.

Cheers, Jon

rme
2005-10-18, 04:00
Dean,

I will post my config this weekend when I get back home. Thanks for your help.

cbemoore
2005-10-18, 04:03
In the case of the server, I found the issue was actually DHCP leases expiring.

Interesting - my server has a static IP address, and always reconnects seamlessly. However, my SB2's use DHCP, and often don't reconnect until I re-run "Set up Networking".

There seems to be a pattern emerging.....

Chris

jonolumb
2005-10-18, 04:30
By the looks of things on here- some of you are discussing different problems.
If you are having difficulty in connecting to the slimserver then you are connected to the wireless network- the squeezebox wont let you connect to squeezenetwork or slimserver without a wireless connection.
The other problem is the one I am having and which was the first post on this thread- wireless signal strength of 70 or 80% then suddenly dropping to 0% - meaning that for some reason, the squeezebox is unable to connect to wireless. The longer the router is online, the harder it becomes to connect. To solve problem- reset the router and connect quickly and even this does not always work.
And yes- all my other computers connect flawlessley- something smells slightly dodgy here.
Jono

Gatchers
2005-10-18, 04:42
Hi,

Okay, back from work, this is what I've found so far...

To re-iterate, I'm running a 2WIRE HomePortal 1800HG running 3.7.1 (latest I can get) firmware, I'm running the 20051017 nightly build and firmware 24 runs on my new SqueezeBox 2.

I have disabled DHCP and things seem better - but, I think only because there's one less thing to go wrong during the connection process. I've often seen it come it come out of a connection attempt with that 'default' IP and no gateway, giving the impression DHCP failed. I have also had one (and only one) occasion have the router refused to do DHCP with other devices after trying to connect to the SB2 - probably the router getting annoyed by whatever was going on during the SB2 DHCP attempt. I've never had it do that before with devices which connect and disconnect quickly - eg my LifeDrive.

I don't think I'm getting dropouts when I'm connected. The 'wireless strength is zero occasionally' only happens before I fully connect...

So, at the moment I have a situation where when I connect to the wireless network, it can take anything up to a minute or two to connect, but at least as I'm using static IP, it's likely to be usable when I finally do connect, as there was no DHCP to go wrong...

Gatchers
2005-10-18, 07:53
Oh - can I help by doing some tracing with Ethereal?

Gatchers
2005-10-18, 09:36
Okay, well I may be talking rubbish but I haven't been able to get the system to connect yet tonight, and I'm not seeing any traffic at all coming from the SB2. I can see all my other devices on the network...

kevin
2005-10-18, 10:12
Okay, well I may be talking rubbish but I haven't been able to get the system to connect yet tonight, and I'm not seeing any traffic at all coming from the SB2. I can see all my other devices on the network...

Are you using encryption? Could you post some details about that?

If you reset the 2wire to factory default and reset the SB2 to factory default, and just operate with the default settings, does the connection stay more stable?

Gatchers
2005-10-18, 10:19
Hi,

I'm currently using WPA personal encryption. The default for the 2Wire is to use a 64-bit WEP Key (and in open mode) which is read from a label on the unit. I haven't tried that specifically, but I started off with WEP Open, which I had problems with.

Cheers,

Gatchers
2005-10-19, 03:30
Okay, I've just tried it again with WEP Open and WEP Shared, I can't get it with these either in its current frame of mind. I've tried factory resets, too, and obviously router resets.

My router does not allow unprotected as an option.

I am at a complete loss...

Gatchers
2005-10-19, 09:30
Okay, reconnection is delicate hell, unfortunately, although I appreciate, severely, what the SB2 can do, it'll probably have to go back unless I can get something sorted out.

I've spent all my free time since last Thursday trying to make this work reliably. The worst thing is that I get periods when it does work - which validates my (often serious) changes - then after a while it doesn't work again, when nothing has changed.

What I have found in the last 6 hours is that *sometimes*, I can get a connect if I have the SB2 within a particular distance range between my router and the SB2 - sometimes. The encryption method doesn't matter - and I've also tried with a different router I found for the job, this time, an Safecom router (TI chipset).

But, all of the problems ONLY happen during the initial 'connecting to wireless network' stage. After that, the darn thing is rock solid. The 'tap the power' thing I have seen - it seems to be more of a SlimServer connect problem. Believe me, I've spent a long time on this.

As I want/need this as an alarm clock, unreliable reconnection is a critical issue. I've used BugZilla less than TeamTrack/ClearDTS myself, but I will raise this when I get more details to provide, but I'm trying to get in touch with tech support which isn't easy ATM.

Basically, the problem is as I said at the beginning - it runs for days without a problem - until it needs to 'reconnect' to the WLAN again! Then... for me, a no go except for maybe half an hour a day as long as I continually retry - if I'm lucky. ALL of my other devices have no problem - anywhere I am, including everywhere I tried to get the SB2 running. The devices include several laptops with different WLAN CardBus cards, my Centrino Notebook, LifeDrive, PSPs, etc, etc.

So, maybe I have a crappy environment (NetStumbler didn't seem to think it was too bad), but why is the SB2 the only device which suffers out of so very many, and only during connect?

Gatchers
2005-10-19, 10:52
And can I just make it clear that the problem for me is totally about the ---===### C O N N E C T I O N ###===--- to the WLAN stage - after that, it works great. Once it gets past 'Connecting to wireless network' and gets through with all IPs correct, it is perfect.

Cheers,

Gareth

MrC
2005-10-19, 11:43
Gatchers, are you broadcasting your SSID? If not, you might test w/SSID broadcast enabled.

Gatchers
2005-10-19, 11:45
Hi,

Thanks for the reply.

Yes, I definitely am. 'SkyFish' is broadcast for all to see.

jhwilliams
2005-10-19, 20:38
Interesting - my server has a static IP address, and always reconnects seamlessly. However, my SB2's use DHCP, and often don't reconnect until I re-run "Set up Networking".

There seems to be a pattern emerging.....

Chris

I changed both to be static - then later changed my router to manually assign IPs to the server and SB2 MACs (so still DHCP, but always getting a consistent IP).

I found I needed to do both the server and the SB2 to fix the issue - but either approach (static or fixed DHCP) worked.

Gatchers
2005-10-19, 22:01
More on what I'm finding...

My external environment seems to consist of a number of external networks on different channels which appear for short periods of time. The bedroom appears to see the most networks, With SB2 during the SSID selection stage I can often see around 10 networks, though the names tend to change. It's possible there are more around. Refreshing with a PC WLAN utility tends to yield a different number of networs, withd ifferent names every time, msot of them saying 'Poor' or 'No signal'.

So, first question - how many SSIDs will SB2 show at once during this stage? If there are more than this number, what might it do?

Signal strength of my network never goes below around 50%, averaging at around 60%, when I'm right up next to my router I'm getting about 95-99%. But, if I haven't selected a network, what is the 'signal strength' of? The strongest signal it has found, or the signal strength of a given connection? What about after I'm connected?

My PC WLAN Utility says it receives about 5 beacons a second.In the bedroom, my notebook tells me it sees 10 beacons a second. Just thought I'd throw that in as a FYI.

The most reliable environment tends to be when I have the SB2 right in front of my router but wehat makes this all harder to test is that there is definitely some 'sticky' behaviour on either the SB2 or the router side of things - if there's a connection problem, often it just won't connect again for AGES< no matter what I do. Well, today I found that changing the network's SSID and selecting the new one seems to give me a better chance of connecting up again. So the next question is, is SB2 caching any kind of information or making any subsequent assumptions after an initial (failed?) connect which may affect the chances of connecting in future? I notice that after changing my network's SSID, I still see the old one on the selection list when I go to reconnect even though it's not there anymore.

Is ther eany kind of debug I can do to help here? I work in the mobile phone industry - when we need to do protocol stack debugging on things like cell handover, etc, we can enable a network trace build and get some detailed information. Is there any firmware I can test, or enabler parameters to get any information back to anyone I can help with this?

So, as said, I am in an environment where there are many low strength/bad signals appearing/disappearing, and this seems to upset the way it camps onto the network. It is absolutely fine when it does connect. I am also seeing some 'sticky' behaviour as described above. All my other devices can cope.

Cheers,

ncrossland
2005-10-20, 00:58
I've just got a SB2, and having trouble connecting wirelessly *to the network*, as previous posters on this thread.

It connected fine once, but since then it has been unable to again. It picks up the SSID of the network, and when you 'View Network Settings' it gives a signal strength of 80-90% - although, as a previous poster, it drops down to 0% every 3 display-refreshes, and then back up again.

I notice that even though I have it set to use DHCP, it has kept the same IP on the settings display, even when that IP had been allocated to a different machine on the network following a reboot. Is there any way of getting the SB to renew its network settings? Even powering on and off doesn't seem to help.

No other wireless devices (2 x PCs, 1x Pocket PC) have trouble connecting to the router - just the SB.

I'm using a Netgear 834G, and the SB firmware appears to be 15.

Any ideas what to try?

rme
2005-10-20, 20:29
I have been testing the wireless connection tonight with the following info for the slimdevices crew:

Router Setup:
Dlink DI624 - latest firmware v2.70 from 8/05
Channel - autoselect (and tested with individual channels set to 1,2,3,4,6,11)
Super G mode - disabled
Extended range - disabled
802.11g mode only - enabled (and tried disabled)
SSID Broadcast - disabled (and tried enabled)
Security - WEP 64bit (haven't tried anything else)
Authentication - Shared Key and open key
static ip address set for the sb2's mac id and variable ip addresses tried

SB2 settings:
Reset to factory settings
Firmware - 24
Autoupgrade - Off
Wireless strength 0-60% on various channels

Wireless pc settings:
2 wireless pc's with various internal wireless chips - no antenna's - stationed right next to the SB2 for signal and connection testing. None of these pc's had any problem with any channels I selected or changed to, no problems with shared or open key settings, no problems with auto select or individual channels 1 thru 11, no problems with ssid broadcast on or off, no problems with 802.11g only on or off. They just worked.

First observation - When restarting the sb2, it will not lock onto the signal and connect to the network, unless the signal strength is at least 50% - 60% on my box. I have to move the unit to a spot that it can get this signal, then move it back to where I have it positioned normally, where it gets about 35% signal. It will never lock onto the signal on a reboot at the 35% signal level.

It seems that part of the problem people are experiencing may be in sb2's inability to lock onto a signal unless the signal is at least 50% - 60%. It also seems that the issue may be in the channel changing or shared/open authentication process on sb2. Additionally, I could get a wireless signal on channel 1 or 11 at all. I got 0% wireless strength even though my wirelesspc's showed 40-50% strength. Once I changed the router to channel 2, I immediately got a 50%+ signal on the sb2. So part of the problem may be how sb2 is searching for the channel used and protocals.

Next observation is that the wireless signal on sb2 will typically get to the same level as the pc, however in monitoring the pc right next to the sb2, the pc will hold a very consistant signal (35% +/- 10%). The sb2 will go to roughly 35% but then go to 0%, then 100%, then count down to 35% again, then go to 0%. It doesn't seem to be able to lock onto the signal and hold it well at all.

When I start to hear stuttering of music or the display freezes when you press buttons, I am assuming that this is because the signal strength has gone to 0% and can't communicate with the slimserver.

It doesn't seem to matter if I have open or shared authentication, ssid broadcast on or off, auto or fixed channel, static or fixed ip, always the same results with both the pc's being able to work and the sb2 not locking on.

So it may explain why people are randomly hanging. Signal going to 0% alot of times, and if their router is changing channels.

What it doesn't explain is why only the sb2 has the problem, and not my pc's, or it seems anyone else's pc's who are posting here.

And based on the other posts, it doesn't seem to be a dlink router issue either.

EDIT: I do not have any 2.4ghz phones in the house. I switched to 5.8ghz.

Gatchers
2005-10-20, 20:41
Thanks for the feedback.

This seems to largely concur with my findings in that network activity may affect the SB2, especially during the initial connect phase.

I spent a lot of yesterday carting a connected SB2 around my condo, into some of the nastiest areas of seeing lots of WLANs dropping in and out, and it served as well as any of my other devices. But connection is an entirely different matter.

I've found it can be a bit more reliable if I wait for a 'finalised' list of SSIDs available before trying to connect - obviously in places where the SSID list never settles down, my chances of connecting are remote.

I will file a bugzilla report this afternoon. In the meantime, is anyone from Slim reading this? Does this ring any bells at all?

ncrossland
2005-10-20, 23:23
After much trial and error, I've switched from WEP to WPA authentication, and it seems much more reliable (so far). It was a bit of a pain to reconfigure other systems, but hopefully worth it.

Gatchers
2005-10-20, 23:32
Hi,

This is what I did initially, too. I thought it had fixed it for me, but it turns out that I was just in one of the 'I'll connect for a while' periods.

I get the feeling that enabling activities which increase the connection process (like DHCP?) appear to increase the likeliness of a connection not happening. I use a static IP for SB2 now, previously I found that some of the time, when I connected, I had an invalid IP address.

I'm about to report a bug with Bugzilla, I notice that bug 311 may have some bearing on the problem - maybe.

Gatchers
2005-10-20, 23:59
Bug 2330 has been filed.

MrC
2005-10-21, 10:30
A little info for those of you having trouble with your wireless setup. This may not help solve your problems, but will hopefully clarify some things.

1) Whether or not you use a static IP vs. one via DHCP does not affect your ability to "connect" to your AP/router. The wireless protocol is a lower layer protocol, and must first be established reliably before the higher-level IP protocol is functional. How the IP is assigned is inconsequential. A flakey connection may yield timeouts during the DHCP negotiation which may cause belief that DHCP is somehow a factor.

2) Shared-key WEP is supported, not Open. So don't bother trying to use Open. This eliminates one variable for you.

3) The signal strengths you see are approximations, may be averages, are only reported periodically. The sample period or reporting can miss very low or 0 strength periods. Don't rely too much on reported signal strengths.

4) The 169.254.xxx.xxx addresses are not *invalid* - rather, they are RFC-specified addresses used for autoconfiguration. This is a fallback IP used when, say, DHCP servers are not found or no IP address is available (this relates to #1 above). Autoconfiguration allows automatic IP configuration, for example, when two PCs to be connected to each other via cross-over cable.

5) SSID broadcasting will help the wireless connection - if you are having trouble, leave SSID broadcast enabled. Later turn it off if you are somehow convinced in the myth that it provides additional security.

6) Cordless phones in the 2.4Ghz range will disrupt or drop wireless connections. Minimally, they will affect your ability to retain a connection, and/or connect. And they can affect your connection from a fairly long distance. Consider that your neighbors use them, and are receiving / making calls much more often than you realize.


In the end, 802.11a/b/g wireless technology is less robust than we would like. Various combinations of wireless radios work, while others have more trouble. And being in a wireless-crowded area, with overlapping wireless channels, cordless phones, and automatic channel hoping makes troubleshooting a nightmare or nigh impossible with commodity hardware.

With this said, I'd suggest trying a different AP, even high end if possible, to see if that helps your situation. Perhaps there is some work that Slim can do to help reliability as well.

Good luck!

Gatchers
2005-10-21, 10:56
Hi,

Thanks for your detailed reply.

Yes, I work with the lower layers as part of my job. I work with wireless chipset designers pretty much routinely. This is why I want to help. I have bug reported what I have found at the most user-friendly level I can. I will do everything I can to help, I don't want to return my new SB2! And I will not assume anything more about the architecture than is available to me as some guy who just bought one of these and hoped it would work for me! Anyone can PM me for any details they need and I will help however I can. I want to help make it work seeing as I have a chance to make it do so.

SFdrifter
2005-11-03, 17:42
This thread raises fundamental issues with Slimserver 6.2.0...any progress?

terickso
2005-11-08, 18:51
I have a netgear DG834G and have the same problem. When I first got it, could not connect at all. Talk to support, they had me reboot my router and bunch of other things nothing. I was about to give up and then I clicked my heels together three times (actually it connected seemingly by accident) it connected and had no problem for 3 weeks. I added so more music and got the new version of slimserver and no connection again. I loathe to run an ethernet cable from my slimserver but I am getting upset at this thing especially when i spent the extra 50 bucks to get a wireless version. Since I talked to support I went through their checklist, no results and he didn't have a clue why.

I can't believe this device gets good reviews when it barely works. Should have returned it when I had the chance. When it worked it seemed to work well.

ncrossland
2005-11-09, 00:55
I have a netgear DG834G and have the same problem. When I first got it, could not connect at all. Talk to support, they had me reboot my router and bunch of other things nothing. I was about to give up and then I clicked my heels together three times (actually it connected seemingly by accident) it connected and had no problem for 3 weeks. I added so more music and got the new version of slimserver and no connection again. I loathe to run an ethernet cable from my slimserver but I am getting upset at this thing especially when i spent the extra 50 bucks to get a wireless version. Since I talked to support I went through their checklist, no results and he didn't have a clue why.

I can't believe this device gets good reviews when it barely works. Should have returned it when I had the chance. When it worked it seemed to work well.


Terickso

My problems with DG834G (exactly same as yours) were solved by upgrading the router to th latest firmware -- go through the Netgear homepage, rather than the support link within the router admin - since that only links to an old version of the firmware. It was version 3.something that sorted the problems - connects every time now.

terickso
2005-11-11, 21:22
I was happy thinking I can fix this problem but to no avail. It does not work any different. Still no connection

AndyWright
2005-11-17, 10:59
I seem to have similar-ish problem.

I have 2 new SBs. One had been installed for 48 hours and worked flawlessly over a wireless/WEP link. The signal strength was always around 65%

Today I noticed it had lost its connection and all attempts to make it reconnect failed. Taking it upstairs and placing it next to the AccessPoint made it work again - no trouble with the connection.

Take it back downstairs and it won't connect. It sees the SSID but that's it.

So, I unboxed the 2nd SB and plugged it in downstairs in the same place. Works fine. Swap them and the other won't work, but it will when placed close to the AP.

Looks like one of them has gone a "bit deaf" ?

AndyWright
2005-11-17, 11:26
Further to my last post I've been doing a bit more testing with the box that has "gone deaf".

It will only connect if it's within about 3 feet of the AP. Signal strength is reported as 95+ % I can then walk around the room with it (as far as the power lead will let me) and it stays connected, the reported singal strength being about 80+ %

Reset the power connection with the box say 5 feet from the AP and it refuses to connect. This is in a location where it happily communicated when I was walking around with it as above.

So, the box works, but will only establish the initial wireless connection when it is really close to the AP.

AndyWright
2005-11-17, 12:36
ok, me again.

I managed to fix the "deaf" box. I opened it up and took a look inside. The wireless module is a Mini-PCI board held in place with a couple of clips. I unclipped the board and plugged it back in again and all is well.

Looks like it was a bad connection on the wireless board, probably caused by thermal movement?

Gatchers
2005-11-17, 22:49
Niw, this is interesting, and it fits in with my finding - I tried using more than one type of router.

My SB2 has been connected for about a month without dropping, as thankfully I haven't needed to reset my router. I'll go in and re-seat the mini-PCI board if there's a good chance it'll take the problem away, although th downside is that if it doesnt work I could be spending 12+ hours getting it to reconnect again.

When you opened the SB2 up, did it look as if the wireless card was a bit skewed on the socket?

Also, could you try reconnecting every few hours to see if it remains as good?

Thanks...

AndyWright
2005-11-18, 05:01
There was no obvious sign that the board wasn't seated correctly - there's very little movement on the board once it's held in with the clips. Once the clips are undone and the board tilted up a little, you can rock it from side-to-side a bit to get the connections bedded in.

I've just unplugged and replugged the power lead to the SB and it reconnected to the server fine. The connection to the AP is so fast that you only see it see it picking up a dhcp lease, the message to say it's connecting to wireless doesn't have time to appear...

Andy.

Gatchers
2005-11-18, 05:12
Hi, thanks for the information.

I've just reseated the card, it hasn't helped me (I'm stuck trying to connect at the moment).

I'd decided to upgrade to 6.2.1 and firmware 28, it connected quickly after that, then I decided to reset my router. It wasn't connecting so I decided to reseat the mini PCI board. Everything looked okay, though there was a bit of a thumbprint on the right side of the connector, but I had a good go at trying to make sure it was connected well. Maybe I could do it better...

I wish there was some kind of debug available at this stage of the connection. The uptimes are incredible once it can get past this stage.

Out of interest, I always got incredibly low signal strength without the external RF pole even right next to my router - almost as if there was no internal RF pad.

When I'm connected, I'm seeing about 65-75% currently.

AndyWright
2005-11-18, 05:48
Can you see your SB from your AP? On mine I can go into the web-pages of the AP and look at singal strengths of connected clients. I did notice that when my SB was faulty that it didn't appear on the list of clients, even though the SB could find my Wireless network (and even my neighbour's very weak signal, something my laptop fails to do !) This lead me to believe it was the transmitter part of the SB that was dodgy - it could hear but not speak sort of.....

JulianL
2005-11-18, 05:55
I'm afraid that I'm yet another person having problems here. I just did a power cycle on my Actiontec wireless access point and now my SB2 won't reconnect to the network at all. I'm broadcasting the SSID, no encryption, and signal strength is about 85% but it just won't connect. This is pretty frustrating and it's disturbing that there seems to be very little contribution to this thread by the Slim Devices staff. It seems clear that a number of people are having this issue.

Right now I'm just trying the "leave it for a few hours and it might randomly succeed" experiment that seems to have worked for some other people.

- Julian

AndyWright
2005-11-18, 06:13
Can you try moving the SB close (as in within a couple of feet) to the AP and try again?

In my case the SB always reported a healthy signal strength but I would imagine this is only the received strength - it has no way of knowing what strength the AP is seeing. In my case it seems the return signal to the AP was incredibly weak.

Gatchers
2005-11-18, 06:28
Unfortunately my router(s) won't let me see my devices until they are connected, and even then there is a bit of a lag with my main one - I can disconnect and it says they are still connected.

Your 'low transmit strength' argument sounds reasonable though, there's certainly something RADICALLT different about behaviour when it's trying to connect, against when it's connected - I was connected for around a month, perfectly!

Now I'm worried I'll be able to get the thing to connect to my network before I need it to wake me up on Monday morning...

AndyWright
2005-11-18, 06:30
Good excuse to go to work late ? :)

JulianL
2005-11-18, 06:33
Thanks. I just tried this but unfortunately it still won't connect. This is really frustrating, especially because my 2 laptops and 2 PDAs all reconnected with absolutely no problems. The wireless networking subsystem in the SB2 really sucks!

- Julian

JulianL
2005-11-18, 06:54
I think that, at least for me, this might well be a software (firmware) problem. I can also see my neighbours wireless access point and I can connect to that first time every time but it just won't connect to my access point. The SB2 seems to be really fussy about what it will connect to but the fact that I can connect so easily to my neighbour's AP does seem to imply that the SB2 wireless hardware is working OK.

- Julian.

Gatchers
2005-11-18, 06:56
Hi,

Well, I don't want to use the SB2 didn't get me into work on time excuse agaib ;-)

http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2330

Is the bug I reported, please feel free to vote on it, and add points to it. There is a problem...

JulianL
2005-11-18, 08:12
I just voted for the bug and added some rather strong comments.

I know this doesn't help others here but, for what it's worth, I just plugged in a spare wireless AP (A US Robotics 8054) and my SB2 connected first time to that and is now playing music so for me it definitely seems to be the case that the SB2 wireless stuff is really picky about what it will talk to.

I really hope Slim Devices can get to the bottom of this because I can do without another 2.4GHz device and power brick in my setup which would be totally unnecessary if the SB2 would talk to my main wireless router (which is built into my ADSL modem).

- Julian

Gatchers
2005-11-18, 10:48
Okay, well a few hours spent with no ability to reconnect, I can't block the networks around me (10 are seen). If I can connect, I'll be okay as I usually am. At the moment, I don't think I'll be connected by Monday - It's Friday evening here.

I've got two days to get a connect - wish me luck!!!

kevin
2005-11-18, 16:23
Okay, well a few hours spent with no ability to reconnect, I can't block the networks around me (10 are seen). If I can connect, I'll be okay as I usually am. At the moment, I don't think I'll be connected by Monday - It's Friday evening here.

I've got two days to get a connect - wish me luck!!!

Gatchers--The three routers you mention in the bug have not been officially tested... I'm working on picking up a 2Wire 1701HG to analyze what I think is a completely different issue, but I will do some testing along the lines of what's been reported here as well...

Having 10 networks in range does sound bad, though. What channels are they on and what channel is yours on?

Could each of you that are having issues here possibly e-mail me directly (at kevin@slimdevices.com) with information about:
- when this unit was purchased, what model it is, etc (sb2, sb3)
- what routers and hardware/firmware versions specifically you have tried up until now
- what encryption options and wireless modes (b, g, super/turbo g) have been tried
- a basic history of the problems you have encountered here

I'll see what I can do about getting each particular piece of hardware and do some testing here...

Gatchers
2005-11-18, 22:37
Networks: Everyone around here seems to be using 6. I have tried several channels - 1, 6, 7, 12, etc. I am currently on 7. Changing channels needs a router reset so I didn't change it again once I managed a connect last time.

Almost all the wireless networks around me are based on 2Wire routers - the main ISP available to this condo gives them out with service contracts., and the default SSIDs show this too.

Routers: 2Wire HomePortal 1800HG 3.7.1 firmware, Safecom SWBRU-54108, 19408av firmware. DLink DWL-2000AP+ rev B2 hardware, firmware versioon 2.10 and 2.11b40. The latter is actually an Access Point/wireless client.

Wireless mode is B+G.

I've tried 128 bit WEP (open and shared) and WPA TKP, neither of which affected the problem.

Brief description: SB2 stays stuck on 'Connecting to wireless network' after powerup. Attempting network configuration results in 'Connecting to network' continually timing out. Sometimes, when left on 'Connecting to wireless network' for hours or days, a connection seems to occur. Once this happens, the SB2 remains connected forever.

Signal strength around 60-75%. When checking network strength before being able to connect, '0%' is repeatedly seen for small periods.

Sometimes, when 'Connecting to wireless network' appears, the display shuts off after around 20-30 seconds, and then reappears, almost as if 'something' has happened. Attempting to reset the SB2 by holding down power can cause a lockup when the device is trying to connect, which requires a powercycle to fix.

I have an SB2, ordered directly from your website on 10th October. There is a sticker on the inside of the SB2 case which says 'Sep 27'.

I have tried to reseat the wireless card.

Gatchers
2005-11-19, 07:14
Sigh, losing my faith in getting a connection by Monday morning.

Is there any chance there could be some kind of firmware build with a line or two of debug below 'Connecting to wireless network' that would at least shed some light on how far my connection is getting? Surely that has to be useful in some way????

Gatchers
2005-11-21, 05:39
Okay, more findings:

I have not been able to connect back with my 2Wire router yet - however, on Sunday I tried something else:

I now need to have 2 wireless networks - one supporting G mode and WPA for the computers and such, and one little network I set up for the devices that won't support WPA (Nintento DS games, early PSP games etc).

To facilitate this new network I pulled out a USB 2.0 WLAN stick from my WLAN stick bag - a ZyDAS 1211 based device. I connect it as an access point to my wife's computer, which is connected to my 2Wire router via ethernet. The ZD Utility which is supplied with these sticks allows me to bridge to the PC's ethernet and therefore connect to the router, and any devices connected to it appear as if they are connected via ethernet to the router.

Well, guess what, it connects everytime. Problem is, this little WLAN stick isn't very capable and whereas I was getting 60-75% or so with the 2Wire, this is giving me about 20-30% at best, so walking across the bedroom can set it off.

I decided to play about with this tonight, and I just found that using 2 apparently identical WLAN sticks with the same chipset (same manufacturer too), one connects with the SB2 - one does not in the same way that my 2Wire doesn't most of the time.

All other devices connect to them both fine... just the SB2 hates one of them.

The only difference I can imagine would be the RF calibration...

markya23
2005-11-21, 05:47
I had a similar problem with my Netgear DG834G. I seem to have fixed it by switching from B/G to G mode only (which isn't fantastic, as I now can't connect with by PDA which only has B mode). Does this fix anyone elses problems, or am I just the lucky (???) one?

AndyWright
2005-11-21, 05:52
Gatchers, did you see my other post about my findings with some wireless troubles I was having at my neighbour's house? I found that enabling "Both types" rather than just "Shared key" or "Open system" on the AP made things work. Still no idea why, but at least the neighbour now has a working SB :)

Andy.

Gatchers
2005-11-21, 06:09
markya23,

Thanks - just gave this a try, didn't work for me :-(

Different WEP settings have not helped me either unfortunately :-(

The new AP which works with one out of two of the same type of WLAN stick, takes 13 seconds to connect, this is with my SB2 configured to use static everything - if DHCP was being done, it'd still be getting done by the same router that was doing it directly, wirelessly before. So it seems to be about the 'wireless' side of things for sure...

JulianL
2005-11-23, 03:35
I had a similar problem with my Netgear DG834G. I seem to have fixed it by switching from B/G to G mode only (which isn't fantastic, as I now can't connect with by PDA which only has B mode). Does this fix anyone elses problems, or am I just the lucky (???) one?
The last time I had a problem connecting I did the same thing to fix it (but unfortunately even this trick didn't work for me this time).

The important thing for you (I hope) though is that, after I'd switched to g-only mode to connect, I then switched my AP back to mixed mode and the SB2 stayed connected and I could use my PDAs again. This carried on working fine for months until I power cycled my AP and then everything broke. For safety I would suggest that you make sure the SB2 is switched off while you change the AP mode back to mixed so that it's not watching the AP while it restarts (my AP does a restart wen any setting is changed).

- Julian

markya23
2005-11-24, 02:43
JulianL,

How ironic, guess what I had to do this morning, and guess what message the SB is displaying! :-(

I'm going to try the latest netgear firmware this evening when I get home (3.01.25). Wish me luck!

saday
2005-11-24, 04:41
Hi

Just received my SB3 and seem to be having the same problem as lots of other people with wireless connection. It works fine on a wired connection but not over wireless. It senses the wlan (and others that aren't mine), connects to the wlan but fails to get a DHCP address, ending up with a default one in the subnet 169.254.x.x

The router is a KCorp Lifestyle KLG-575 with the turbo mode turned off (after reading here). Still no joy. I then tried a Netgear WGT624 (with turbo mode turned off) and still no joy. Always the same behaviour. I am broadcasting the SSID and have no security set at present.

My laptop connects to both routers wirelessly no problem.

Any other suggestions out there...?

Stephen

markya23
2005-11-24, 08:52
Interestingly (to me anyway - I'm bored at work!) all the APs which don't work in this thread *except* the Safecom SWBRU-54108 (which uses the TI chipset) use the Atheros 2xxx or 5xxx chipsets.

Just an observation. Not going to draw any conclusions from it yet.

Gatchers
2005-11-24, 09:36
Yes, that is interesting - though doesn't the SB2/3 use that too? (I'd need to check again on that).

I am *desperate* to pull some kind of debug on this. Oh, if the SB2 could be made to syslog some useful stuff... can it? Please..?

markya23
2005-11-24, 11:28
Well - the good news (for me) is that the router upgrade seems to have left the SB working (at least temporarily!) I'll keep digging and report if I find anything else out...

yc_
2005-11-25, 05:10
When i first got the SB2, everything ran flawlessly, but now, SB2 is having extreme difficulty connecting to my wireless network. According to SB2, there is at most 1-2 other wireless networks in range. Changing frequencies doesn't seem to work. Seems entirely hit or miss whether SB2 connects.

Router is Compex NP28G.

One question - is it possible that the latest SB2 firmware doesn't work with my router? Is it possible to go back to an earlier firmware for SB2 just to troubleshoot?

JulianL
2005-11-25, 17:02
Markay23's observation about the Atheros 2xxx or 5xxx chipsets is interesting but what are Slim Devices current working theories about this?

I just find it strange that all my other wireless devices connect so easily to either of my access points which makes me wonder whether maybe there is a bug in the firmware re the protocol for connecting to the access point and that the SB just gets away with it for certain APs but for others it doesn't (e.g. is it being too rigid in the timings at some point in the protocol? is it failing on an error code that other wireless protocol stacks just safely ignore? ... that sort of stuff).

The above is just brainstorming but the fact that my Dell axim, two different generations of Dell laptops, and my Sony Clie all connect easily to both my APs really does make me wonder.

- Julian

makingmark
2005-11-26, 09:43
And I haven't read this entire thread, so I apologize if you've already tried it.

I was having similar problems and I seem to have fixed them for now. Here's what I did, not sure what fixed:

1. Gave my server and my two slim devices static IP addresses.
2. (I think this is really what fixed it) Uninstalled SlimServer AND deleted the program folder (wiping out all my preferences :|), then reinstalled the latest non-beta build from the Software page (can't remember, but I think it's 6.2.1).

I think maybe "detritus" from my trying the 6.5 and 6.2 betas may have been goofing things up somehow...

If this doesn't work, certainly let us know...

dagger
2005-11-28, 16:07
Hi All,
I have just recently purchased a SB3.

Dont know if anyone can help me but my MP3's keep stuttering after approx 10secs of playing the song this can vary between 10 & 40 Seconds but it will always stutter!
I have tried streaming the radio through it but this drops of every 30 seconds or so then comes back!

Step 1 tried. I originally had all my Music hosted on an SME Server (600Mhz Intel cpu, 512Mb of Ram & a 200Gb IDE HDD) I placed the server & Router in the same room as the SB3 Problem was still there!

Step 2 Tried. Copied Music to Windows XP Pro 64bit Edition, (3700+ Diago CPU, 2Gb Ram, 200Gb SATA 16Mb Cache HDD) High gain Antenna placed on PC Box & Router (Netgear DG834GT) Excellent Signal strength between PC & Router SB3 Is in the room between the PC & Router! Problem still there So I know it's not the PC's

Step 3 Tried. ReRip a couple of CD's in MP3 Format Cleared Library & Rescaned everything. Problem still there.

Conclusion. Very very sad and in desperate need of some help!!! Could it be the signal strength to the sctual SB3 as I have no High Gain Aerial on it! Is there a way of seeing the signal strength on the Squeeze box?

**************************************

Just read this post so wish I had read it earlier!!! I have just changed from using the Atheros eXtended Range (XR) 7 Auto 108Mbs to g&b and it all seems great!

Now loving my SB3 rather than beating it with a wooden stick.

Thanks all

******************************************

kevin
2005-11-29, 14:39
Dagger--Does that DG834GT support an 802.11g turbo mode? Can you try disabling it and see if it helps?

enduser
2005-12-06, 03:22
I apologize if I am bringing up something that is already a known bug (#2561?).

After some period of time, the SB3 crashes to the point where SlimServer 6.2.1 cannot see it on the network. I see the problem 2-3 times a day.

My D-Link DGL-4300 will show that the SB3 is connected, but the SB3 is locked/crashed or has some other problem which prevents the SlimServer from seeing it on the network.

Power cycling the SB3 seems to restore it to life. Stopping and restarting the SlimServer service makes no difference. The player remains unfound.

Also note that I uninstalled 6.2.1 and installed 6.2.2 and it made no difference.

The router shows 11g / 54mbits / 87% signal with the right MAC address.

SlimServer 6.2.1 is running on Windows XP SP2 with all the default firewall ports open. The wireless is WPA2/AES, Turbo mode off (doesn't work at all if Turbo is on).

Any ideas on this one?

kevin
2005-12-06, 10:25
Could you possibly try with WPA1+TKIP instead of WPA2 temporarily and see if this behavior improves?

enduser
2005-12-06, 12:24
Could you possibly try with WPA1+TKIP instead of WPA2 temporarily and see if this behavior improves?Why would this low security mode work and not the security that is part of WPA2?

I'm trying it now. I think you have to leave the unit alone for a while before it goes into never-never land.

enduser
2005-12-08, 18:43
Why would this low security mode work and not the security that is part of WPA2?

I'm trying it now. I think you have to leave the unit alone for a while before it goes into never-never land.So far with WPA/TKIP it seems okay. The SB3 has not been lost at sea again.

I'm going to go back to WPA2/AES to see if the problem comes back.

JJZolx
2005-12-08, 18:53
Why would this low security mode work and not the security that is part of WPA2?
Because WPA2/AES is new to the firmware, and likely has seen very little, if any, testing?

yc_
2006-01-25, 00:39
Markay23's observation about the Atheros 2xxx or 5xxx chipsets is interesting but what are Slim Devices current working theories about this?


My Compex NP28G also uses the Atheros chipset and gives me lots of problems with the SB2, and if WEP/WPA is used, fails to connect at all. The Compex router has no problem connecting to a whole lot of other wireless stuff.

For reference, my Linksys WRT54G gives me no problems with the SB2.

Can Slim Devices test more routers with the Atheros chipset?

JulianL
2006-01-28, 13:06
My Compex NP28G also uses the Atheros chipset and gives me lots of problems with the SB2, and if WEP/WPA is used, fails to connect at all. The Compex router has no problem connecting to a whole lot of other wireless stuff.

For reference, my Linksys WRT54G gives me no problems with the SB2.

Can Slim Devices test more routers with the Atheros chipset?
I have to agree here. I'm getting pretty frustrated with my SB2, even to the extent of considering selling it. I just made some necessary changes to my home network (turned on encryption) and, guess what, my SB2 is now refusing to connect again. All my other devices "just worked". I really think this problem (and this thread) deserves some more attention and comment from Slim Devices people.

- Julian

MrC
2006-01-28, 13:26
Perhaps the new firmware checked in will resolve your issues. Try tonight's nighly build, or the latest SVN checkout.

JulianL
2006-01-28, 14:44
Perhaps the new firmware checked in will resolve your issues. Try tonight's nighly build, or the latest SVN checkout.
Thanks MrC. That's a good suggestion because I really do suspect that this is a firmware issue.

Please excuse a stupid question. How do I get hold of just the firmware? I know that the squeezebox checks for updates when it connects to the server so in the past my SB2 magically updated itself when I installed a new version of SlimServer. My concern is that I don't want to go "bleeding edge" on the server so is there a way to just update the firmware without updating the server? Am I in danger of messing up the SB2 <-> Server comms protocol (I am running 6.2.1)?

- Julian

Gatchers
2006-01-28, 23:18
Hi,

To put the new firmware in, navigate your way through the subversion repository (found through support) into the main trunk, go into 'server' then 'firmware' and pick up squeezebox2.version and firmware_29.bin. Using windows, use 'save target as' by right-clicking on 'Download'. It'll download squeezebox2.version.txt - rename this to just squeezebox2.version. Place these two files in SlimServer\server\Firmware - you'll be overwriting the squeezebox2.version already there. Then ue your player to connect to SlimServer...

I've just done this, and...

Gatchers
2006-01-28, 23:23
Initial reports seem that the new firmware may just have fixed the problem!

I'm going to have to retry all through the day as I still believe the problem is related to other wireless nets the SB can see and not my specific setup - obviously I can't control the networks around me.

I've been away on business and had just tried swapping out the network card - Kevin at SlimD evices had this shipped over to me in order to help fix the problem and I tried that this morning before I saw the post about the new firmware.

Yes, it had always pointed to being a firmware problem. I just wish that there was a means of inserting some debug into the firmware to have helped Slim Devices fix the problem earlier. There are lots of technical people on this forum who could have helped - I was prepared to do whatever I could.

Anyway, I'll let you know how I get on...

JulianL
2006-01-29, 15:25
Sadly I can report that firmware version 29 did not fix my problem. I still have a $299 piece of useless black plastic sitting on top of my TV. Some people might detect increasing frustration in my posts. The last time this happened the SB2 randomly decided to reconnect about a month after I'd given up on it. So far I've made about 50 attempts to connect using firmware 29 and none has worked.

Is the firmware open source or is this part of the software developed exclusively by Slim Devices? I am willing to install and run a debug version of the firmware with a few print statements inserted to try and narrow down where in the registration protocol it is failing, has wider timing windows, or whatever else might help Slim Devices diagnose the problem. My router is an Actiontec GT701WG.

- (a very frustrated) Julian

slimdemage
2006-01-29, 15:48
Julian I am right there with you. Its seems the Squeezebox2 (v3) simply isn't a reliable wireless device! I had a flawless wireless network for use with my laptop, and now I just spent 2 entire days tearing my network apart. As a customer I find it shameful that I am spending all this time troubleshooting. I normally get paid to do this kind of work. Since I just bought this product I will take advantage of the 30-day guarantee either for exchange or refund.

dean
2006-01-29, 16:28
Julian & slimdemage: Have you gotten in touch with our customer
support?

MrC
2006-01-29, 17:33
Sadly I can report that firmware version 29 did not fix my problem. I still have a $299 piece of useless black plastic sitting on top of my TV. Some people might detect increasing frustration in my posts. The last time this happened the SB2 randomly decided to reconnect about a month after I'd given up on it. So far I've made about 50 attempts to connect using firmware 29 and none has worked.

Is the firmware open source or is this part of the software developed exclusively by Slim Devices? I am willing to install and run a debug version of the firmware with a few print statements inserted to try and narrow down where in the registration protocol it is failing, has wider timing windows, or whatever else might help Slim Devices diagnose the problem. My router is an Actiontec GT701WG.

- (a very frustrated) Julian

Julian,

You do have the latest firmware version for your router and have noted the issue mentioned here: http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.cgi?RouterStatus

Qwest/Actiontec GT701-WG ... "Firmware versions older than the one mentioned cause connection failures"

JulianL
2006-01-29, 17:57
Julian & slimdemage: Have you gotten in touch with our customer
support?
I did the last time my SB2 failed to connect. KevinP offered to post me a new wireless card but then it spontaneously decided to connect and I honestly don't think it's a hardware issue so I didn't follow up. Unfortunatly it's come back to bite me now of course. I'll log another support ticket tomorrow to let Kevin know that I still have problems, this only dropped out last night and since it was the weekend I was going to leave it until tomorrow to register the ticket. Actually, I've contacted support twice before re non-connection because when I very first got my SB2 it wouldn't connect. Kevin suggested a few things (like turning ON WEP) but that didn't help. Eventually I fixed it by putting my access point into 802.11g only mode and it worked but the second time I had the problem (and contacted Kevin again) even that didn't work but then I just got lucky and it re-connected for no apparent reason.

I'm not an expert on 802.11g. Is the plug-in wireless card pretty much just the radio circuitry and some basic data serialisation circuitry so that you put blocks of data into a shared data buffer and it transmits the packet plus interupts you when a received packet is ready to be read from the buffer of is there some more intelligence on an on-board controller that implements some or all of the 802.11g higher level protocol?

What I'm trying to work out in my own mind is where the problem lies. If the wireless card is operating just at the raw data block level then I know for a fact that it is capable of receiving a data packet from my access point because otherwise it wouldn't present me its SSID as a candidate network to connect to. I also know for a fact that my SB2 is transmitting packets because I can connect to my neighbour's access point (but he's not running a SlimServer of course so I just get the network connection).

What I'm hoping you're going to tell me is that you do implement the higher levels of the 802.11g registration protocol in the SB2 firmware because if you do then there is some chance of fixing it. If the wireless card implements the entire registration protocol and you buy in that card from a third party then I think you should complain to them that their implementation of the registration protocol is deficient. I'll say again for emphasis, after my network change I reconnected my two Dell laptops (different models two years apart), my Dell Axim X30, my IBM Thinkpad, my Sony Clie TH55 and a shuttle system with $20 Belkin wireless card all without any issues whatsoever so it really does point towards the SB2 not playing nicely with 802.11g.

Finally, thanks Dean for your post in this thread. Apart from the obvious frustrations with the my SB2, I have also been becoming somewhat antagonised by the lack of posts by Slim Devices staff. This thread is now 9 pages long and you are the only person from Slim Devices to have posted here, once on page 1 of the thread and again just now. While there have been customers crying out on this thread that their devices just don't work Slim Devices staff were actively posting in other threads and seemed to be completely blind to this one. I would have thought that the strong evidence (at least to me) emerging on this thread that there is a serious problem with your 802.11g implementation deserved at least a little more comment from yourselves.

I will re-log a call tomorrow but I'm sure others here would like to know if you folks even have any working theories on what could be wrong. I would also be very interested to know whether you do implement the registration protocols in your firmware or whether that is done by a third party and I repeat my offer that I am quite happy to run any sort of instrumented firmware to try and help you diagnose the problem.

- Julian

Gatchers
2006-01-30, 00:24
JulianL, did you compare you firmware against the one that says it works on the Wiki?

Slimdemage - your reset issues, MrC mentioned that he's seen 29 firmware reset if the encryption key is incorrect, requiring a factory reset, have you tried this?

I think the recent activity shows that these layers of the network code are provided to Slim Devices, therefore they may not have the level of control (except via OS vendor pressure) that we'd all like.

It does appear to have fixed my specific issue, but resets sound quite 'severe' - there's some kind of abort/exception going on, this may make it easier to trace. Dean mentioned that some issues are still known to remain, but I get the feeling the problems are getting homed in on now.

I'd still like to help test as much as I can...

ccp_merc
2006-01-30, 04:32
I have the same problem. I have two sb2's that are now connected, but I cant get my sb3 to reconnect after a power failure (even though it is sitting next to the router!!(netgear wgr614)) I can connect wired, but reconnecting seems to be a major problem. I have had similar problems with the sb2's at different times.... Hopefully slimdevices have some fixes coming...

Cheers

Chris

Gatchers
2006-01-30, 05:13
Hi Chris,

Have you tried Firmware 29 yet - my problem sounds very similar to youyrs, and was fixed with this version.

JulianL
2006-01-30, 07:31
Julian,

You do have the latest firmware version for your router and have noted the issue mentioned here: http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.cgi?RouterStatus

Qwest/Actiontec GT701-WG ... "Firmware versions older than the one mentioned cause connection failures"
O.K. Lucky I haven't eaten lunch yet because I have a full portion of humble pie that I need to eat. All I can say in my defense is that I had looked at that router page but, not being in the US, I was unaware of a Qwest connection so when I didn't see Actiontec listed under the "A"s then I assumed that it wasn't covered.

Thanks a lot for the help MrC, after the firmware upgrade my SB2 didn't even get time to display the "(20)" countdown, it just went straight to connected state.

As a result of my experiences I'll file a bug (or can I edit the wiki myself?) to get the following changes made.

1) I think the Actiontec router should be listed under "Actiontec" as well as "Qwest/Actiontec"

2) The Actiontec website directs the user to two different places depending on whether they are a Qwest customer or not. As a non-Qwest customer I did not istall the "QW04 - 3.60.2.0.6.3 - GT701-WG" firmare as recommended in the Slim Devices wiki. I followed the link for the non-Qwest customer and that one presented me with 3.0.1.0.6.0-GT701-WG (as displayed on the status page of my router now) so I assume the soon-to-be-created Actiontec entry in the wiki should quote this firmare release rather than the Qwest one.

Finally, I offer this observation rather humbly because I am feeling a bit of an idiot, but I would still point out that all my other wireless devices connected to the Actiontec with the old firmware so, although my issue appears to be solved, I think the subject in this thread is still valid, i.e. the wireless network (connection) does seem a bit delicate.

Thanks again for everyone's help, advice and support, especially MrC of course who got me up and running.

- Julian

Millwood
2006-01-30, 07:46
Has anyone tried using a static ip address? Given that slimserver remembers the client by IP address, it seems that a static ip would be preferred in any case.

(remember to assign an address in your local net address range but outside your DHCP address range.)

Gatchers
2006-01-30, 09:13
JulianL,

Isn't it good when it works though? :-)

Have fun... you know it was worth it...

MrC
2006-01-30, 10:57
O.K. Lucky I haven't eaten lunch yet because I have a full portion of humble pie that I need to eat. All I can say in my defense is that I had looked at that router page but, not being in the US, I was unaware of a Qwest connection so when I didn't see Actiontec listed under the "A"s then I assumed that it wasn't covered.

No portion of pie required - just enjoy your music now!



Thanks a lot for the help MrC, after the firmware upgrade my SB2 didn't even get time to display the "(20)" countdown, it just went straight to connected state.

Awesome!



As a result of my experiences I'll file a bug (or can I edit the wiki myself?) to get the following changes made.

1) I think the Actiontec router should be listed under "Actiontec" as well as "Qwest/Actiontec"

When I first saw that wiki entry, it bugged me, because of the Qwest entry which I knew was going to bite someone. They are just the ISP that provided the user with the AP, and really it should not have been listed that way. I'd almost changed it a dozen times, but deferred thinking someone would just search the page. Now I wish I would have, because it would have saved you some grief.

Anyway, I already added another wiki entry (please be sure i updated the information correctly for your case), and the AP's are now listed under Actiontec where they should have been all along.



2) The Actiontec website directs the user to two different places depending on whether they are a Qwest customer or not. As a non-Qwest customer I did not istall the "QW04 - 3.60.2.0.6.3 - GT701-WG" firmare as recommended in the Slim Devices wiki. I followed the link for the non-Qwest customer and that one presented me with 3.0.1.0.6.0-GT701-WG (as displayed on the status page of my router now) so I assume the soon-to-be-created Actiontec entry in the wiki should quote this firmare release rather than the Qwest one.


Understood - please verify the content of the wiki item I added for you, and make any appropriate corrections.



Finally, I offer this observation rather humbly because I am feeling a bit of an idiot, but I would still point out that all my other wireless devices connected to the Actiontec with the old firmware so, although my issue appears to be solved, I think the subject in this thread is still valid, i.e. the wireless network (connection) does seem a bit delicate.

No doubt there have been problems. It feels like they are starting to be resolved.



Thanks again for everyone's help, advice and support, especially MrC of course who got me up and running.
- Julian
Again, you're entirely welcome. Enjoy the music!

tedfroop
2006-02-01, 08:43
I think the problem is more to do with Slimserver than wireless. Consider this:
Are you getting an IP address?
Are you connected to your network?
Is the only thing your not connected to Slimserver?

I can get around this by:
a: Reboot my pc.
b: Shut down and restart the Slimserver service. (Not always successful)
c: Restart my wireless connection on the pc running Slimserver.

This my have to do with a "timeout" for the connection when it is lost or Slimserver not seeing that your SB is trying to reconnect.

subsub
2006-02-06, 15:53
I bought one SD2 about 7 months ago and it connected absolutely fine out of the box. A couple of months later I bought another two. One connected perfectly, the other refused to connect with the symptoms in this thread. I tried a whole heap of things, all have been covered in this thread (all router settings, different router, positioning, firmwares, etc). A definate symptom was the signal strength occasionally dropping to 0% on the dodgy one, but not on the other 2.

Recently, one of the functioning ones started to refuse connection, and got worse to the point where it didn't work at all.

I tried opening the cases and wiggling the wireless card inside. Amazingly one started working after this. To prove the fault, I swapped the cards over. Even more amazingly, they both connect now without any problems at all. All 3 units now have a stable wireless signal, varying only by +/- 5%. Before that, the broken units had a bigger variance in signal and regularly dropped to 0%

I think there must be a mechanical connection issue here, a couple of other posters have found this as well. It's definately worth a try, because it was without doubt the problem I have spent hours trying to get to the bottom of.

Michaelwagner
2006-02-06, 16:42
Given that slimserver remembers the client by IP address
Does it? I thought it remembered everything by MAC address.

kdf
2006-02-06, 16:52
Quoting Michaelwagner <Michaelwagner.22tzwb (AT) no-mx (DOT) forums.slimdevices.com>:

>
> Millwood Wrote:
>> Given that slimserver remembers the client by IP address
> Does it? I thought it remembered everything by MAC address.
>
MAC Address for Hardware players and softsqueeze.
IP Address for clients using the stream.mp3 url
-k

MMackie
2006-02-07, 20:46
I have the same router (2wire HP1800 HG) and have just unboxed my SB3 to find that it can't connect wirelessly. It can't even connect intermittently. I think I updated the firmware properly, as the settings show version 29, but that did not help. I made sure the authentication was set to WEP-Shared, too, and the router firmware is up-to-date. So what could I be missing? If anyone has an idea I would like to hear. I will be very busy until late tomorrow, though.
edit: To clarify: I do see the ssid, and see that there are other networks in the area, so it isn't a loose wireless card.

Gatchers
2006-02-07, 21:50
subsub, alas I was one of the peoople who tried the card wiggle trick - it didn't work for me. Kein at Slim Devices was kind enogh to send me a replacement card to test as well - this had the same result, so I went back to the original. I later upgraded to firmware 29 which worked for me.

MMackie,

Althoug I am still not entirely convinced itr was just the router - I get the feeling it has more to do with the activity of other possibly turbo-G supporting routers/networks around - I found that I could get a few connects in a row with the 1800HG, and could then go up to several days not getting a connect - and then managing to get one which could last weeks.

If I hadn't managed to get a lucky connect fairly early on I would hve said it didn't connect at all.

However, you have firmware 29, which is still going strong for me so I'm not sure what to sugget. I use WPA-TKP but have used WEP open and shared. Hve you tried using a simple (for example, all lower case) password and seeing if you can get a connect? And, what is it actually saying to you when it can't connect?

MMackie
2006-02-12, 11:24
Well, so far I have been totally unable to connect. Gatchers, can you printscreen your wireless configuration window or else post VERY specific instructions, because nothing is working. I'm afraid I'm just overlooking something simple but either way I can't use it in this state. Whatever happens I would be very grateful.

pedalvet
2006-02-12, 14:18
Well, I'm just thinking about getting a Squeezebox, but this thread is not too encouraging. Wouldn't it be possible to use a sort of low tech solution like a Belkin powerline ethernet adaptor?

snarlydwarf
2006-02-12, 14:29
Yes powerline things work.

Though I would try normal wireless first. Most people don't have problems with it.

I had my SB delivered to work (since I don't trust UPS -- they like to leave expensive things on the doorstep with no signature and $5 packages they insist I go to their depot and pick up...), set the encryption key there while playing with it, and it worked as soon as I plugged in the power at home.

My neighbors have no clue what microwave ovens are, let alone computers or 802.11, so I don't have much at all in interference.

Millwood
2006-02-12, 14:42
When you say you cant connect, do you mean that the SB3 doesnt see your wireless network.

Or do you mean that when you select your network and try to connect nothing happens?

Two things to check.

Are you broadcasting your SSID (that's a base station setting). If not, I don't know if SB3 can be configured to connect. (I really don't know).

If SB3 sees your wireless network, then if your base station has mac address filtering support you may be able to use it to see if the base station sees the SB3. And of course, turn off mac filtering if its on till you get up and working.

If they see each other, then i'd strongly recommend a fixed ip configuration rather than dealing with possible DHCP issues. Remember to set the gateway and dns to the ip of your base station.

MMackie
2006-02-12, 17:38
When you say you cant connect, do you mean that the SB3 doesnt see your wireless network.

Or do you mean that when you select your network and try to connect nothing happens?

Two things to check.

Are you broadcasting your SSID (that's a base station setting). If not, I don't know if SB3 can be configured to connect. (I really don't know).

If SB3 sees your wireless network, then if your base station has mac address filtering support you may be able to use it to see if the base station sees the SB3. And of course, turn off mac filtering if its on till you get up and working.

If they see each other, then i'd strongly recommend a fixed ip configuration rather than dealing with possible DHCP issues. Remember to set the gateway and dns to the ip of your base station.
1) I do see the SSID.
2) I do not see any refrence to MAC filtering in my router configuration.

To be clear: I have no problems until after I enter the WEP key... then it starts the 20 second countdown, and I have never been able to get past that point. My router also shows some information about devices that have connected in the past; my laptop shows up, even when it is off, but there is no indication that a Squeezebox has ever connected. For what it's worth, it seems that DHCP will work flawlessly as it cooperated very well over an ethernet connection. I doubt this is a WEP problem as it won't connect even when WEP is disabled. Enhanced mode is also off.

Gatchers
2006-02-12, 20:34
Hi,

my current settings are pretty much default with some settings I changed still different because I haven't changed them back. My differences are a DTIM period of 3 and PBCC disabled, and power setting set to 6 (default was 4 for me).

Is it saying it can't connect to wireless network, or can't connect to SlimServer, at the end?

I have DHCP off at the moment.