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seanadams
2005-10-07, 20:29
Our worthy competitor has recently *removed* support for outputting the CD audio format from their flagship product.

http://www.rokulabs.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4611&start=0

Now, who said they couldn't innovate?

pfarrell
2005-10-07, 20:41
On Fri, 2005-10-07 at 20:29 -0700, seanadams wrote:
> Our worthy competitor has recently removed support for the CD audio
> format from their flagship product.
> http://www.rokulabs.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4611&start=0
> Now, who said they couldn't innovate?

By all means, no more CD audio, it is so old school.

This posting on that forum really strikes to the heart of what
a great competitor they are:

RokuPatrick Roku Engineering wrote:
"The SPDIF outputs at 48khz as well. I believe DTS and Dolby Digital are
both natively 48khz, so they should still work, although we haven't
tested."

This is on their new, improved product that replaces their current
M1000. I know that all of the software I write is perfect, but even
I pretend that testing and QA are useful.


--
Pat
http://www.pfarrell.com/music/slimserver/slimsoftware.html

Robin Bowes
2005-10-08, 00:18
Pat Farrell said the following on 08/10/2005 04:41:
> On Fri, 2005-10-07 at 20:29 -0700, seanadams wrote:
>
>>Our worthy competitor has recently removed support for the CD audio
>>format from their flagship product.
>>http://www.rokulabs.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4611&start=0
>>Now, who said they couldn't innovate?
>
>
> By all means, no more CD audio, it is so old school.
>
> This posting on that forum really strikes to the heart of what
> a great competitor they are:
>
> RokuPatrick Roku Engineering wrote:
> "The SPDIF outputs at 48khz as well. I believe DTS and Dolby Digital are
> both natively 48khz, so they should still work, although we haven't
> tested."

I particularly liked his later reply when it was suggested that as Dolby
Digital and DTS passthrough were advertised it might be a good idea to
test it:

"The presence of the DD and DTS mention on the spec sheet is a marketing
oversight..."

R.
--
http://robinbowes.com

If a man speaks in a forest,
and his wife's not there,
is he still wrong?

CardinalFang
2005-10-08, 00:27
Our worthy competitor has recently *removed* support for outputting the CD audio format from their flagship product.

http://www.rokulabs.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4611&start=0

Now, who said they couldn't innovate?

Does that mean that would be no pass-through of an un-modified data stream from the CD audio, only streams that have been recoded to 48Mhz?

I think a few audiophiles might be concerned by that, I would certainly like to maintain a clean "untouched" path if possible.

Paul

Aylwin
2005-10-08, 00:28
From one poster on that thread:

"The passing through of the untouched signal is one of the major attractions of the SB. Loosing this feature is, IMHO, not desirable."

'nuff said.

Neil Sleightholm
2005-10-08, 00:47
AlienBBC (via mplayer) resamples to 44.1kHz PCM, does this mean this wouldn't work? Should we think about changing to 48kHz?

Neil

seanadams
2005-10-08, 00:59
To be clear, I was kidding. This is about the most retarded thing I've ever seen in consumer electronics, next to the user interface on my Sony DVD changer.

No, AlienBBC does not need to change. Soundbridge still plays 44.1 _sources_, but it outputs them at 48KHz via resampling. It'll still basically work.

From the user's perspective, the issue is they've dropped support for lossless (at least in the sense of it being lossless) and they can't play DTS/AC3 any more. From the purist's perspective, resampling a 44.1 source to to 48 KHz because you were too cheap to pay for a second crystal is unfathomably stupid.

We've been laughing at those guys for a while, but now it's just kind of sad...

Neil Sleightholm
2005-10-08, 01:41
To be clear, I was kidding.Ok I fell for it!

Jacob Potter
2005-10-08, 06:25
On 10/8/05, seanadams <seanadams.1wkpxz (AT) no-mx (DOT) forums.slimdevices.com> wrote:
> To be clear, I was kidding. This is about the most retarded thing I've
> ever seen in consumer electronics, next to the user interface on my
> Sony DVD changer.

Didn't AC'97 resample everything as well?

Then again, that was designed for $10 integrated sound chipsets, not a
multi-hundred-dollar consumer product. Huh.

- Jacob

Dave D
2005-10-08, 06:27
Glad you clarified the "kidding" part, Sean. It sure seemed like a little jab at your friends in tubular-land, but then I was wondering if there was actually a good reason for upsampling.

So, is there any other reason you can think of to do this, other than to save the cost of another crystal? Does that play into additional cost savings for them overall? Is there another feature they could be getting ready to offer which would necessitate this change?

I mean, anyone who builds these boxes for a living would understand the implications of making "lossless" something "different" even if the change would have been undetectable...wouldn't you piss off the "purist" customers?

Not to mention the other standards (e.g. DD & DTS), upon which I am not aware of the implications (but _they_ should be).

So back to the question. Is there some other reason?

pfarrell
2005-10-08, 08:31
On Sat, 2005-10-08 at 06:27 -0700, Dave D wrote:
> So, is there any other reason you can think of to do this, other than
> to save the cost of another crystal?

Cost of a crystal. I doubt it. The switched to a cheaper integrated chip
(or chipset) and didn't care what the specs are. It actually seems to
me that they aren't even aware of the implications.

> Not to mention the other standards (e.g. DD & DTS), upon which I am not
> aware of the implications (but _they_ should be).

These are movie sound standards. Usually you can get away with being a
litte fast and loose with movie sound, since there are car crashes
and naked women to distract you.


--
Pat
http://www.pfarrell.com/music/slimserver/slimsoftware.html

Music Machine
2005-10-08, 09:17
Would guess 99% percent of people buying soundbridge don't want to know about bits. Roku knows their market. If someone cares about sound quality enough to look at what the products really offer they wouldn't be buying soundbridge anyway. 48k is not going to be a problem for them. They just want to make the sale. If it won't do what you need, oh, you should have bought the 2000. More money.

If you look at other forums where hifi audio is the topic, Squeezebox is well regarded, while roku is seldom mentioned.

Regards,
Music Machine

Mike Anderson
2005-10-08, 10:33
Usually you can get away with being a
litte fast and loose with movie sound, since there are car crashes
and naked women to distract you.

Hell, I get those with just my music.

seanadams
2005-10-08, 10:53
So, is there any other reason you can think of to do this, other than to save the cost of another crystal?

It's just shaving pennies. probably an AC97 chip - extremely cheap.

Ironically, I have a $29.99 DVD player here which still manages to output different sample rates!

street_samurai
2005-10-08, 13:21
Its all about how its marketed:

"Now with breathtaking super enhanced 48khz upsampling! Adds depth and clarity to the data stream thats passed between your computer and the soundbridge!"

Its all about giving the sales guy at Best Buy a good tag line.

=)

ss.

PhilNYC
2005-10-09, 04:59
Maybe they've conceded defeat to Slim Devices in the audiophile market...!

Btw - I have had an interest in their photobridge product, but haven't pulled the trigger because it seems to have some shortcomings that don't make sense. Any chances Slim Devices might do a product like that?

jhwilliams
2005-10-19, 20:47
Our worthy competitor has recently *removed* support for outputting the CD audio format from their flagship product.

I must admit I looked at both products when I was setting up my system - Looks like I made the right choice.

Getting the SB2 avoided the necessity for me to get a decent card for my system that could output 44.1 (S/PDIF)... So with the SB2 I saved money, got a top wireless interface and top audio output (admittedly i'm going to outboard, but it's top notch whilst I decide what to get).

For me, 44.1 came *first*, then the wireless/media part. Roku have lost the plot on this one.

DrNic
2005-10-20, 03:35
Our worthy competitor has recently *removed* support for outputting the CD audio format from their flagship product.

http://www.rokulabs.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4611&start=0

Now, who said they couldn't innovate?

As much as I know I shouldn't jump in to help give Roku a shoeing, I can't resist this time!!
This is such a dumb thing to do, and having just spent a bit of time reading their forums I can see they are going to seriously p*ss some of their customers off!
Way to go...

Nic

max.spicer
2005-10-20, 04:39
I've never looked at the Roku world before, but this posting prompted me to go and read the original forum post that Sean linked to. It's certainly a different world over there, isn't it! I couldn't believe how strong the temptation was to jump in and post "why don't you just all go and buy a squeezebox?". :-) Confusing that the soundbridge is also referred to as an sb - hadn't thought of that before.

Max


As much as I know I shouldn't jump in to help give Roku a shoeing, I can't resist this time!!
This is such a dumb thing to do, and having just spent a bit of time reading their forums I can see they are going to seriously p*ss some of their customers off!
Way to go...

Nic

JulianL
2005-10-20, 08:22
I followed Sean's original link too. Here's one bit I loved:

Post from one of the Roku engineers: "The SPDIF outputs at 48khz as well. I believe DTS and Dolby Digital are both natively 48khz, so they should still work, although we haven't tested."

Follow up post from another contributor: "As you advertise Dolby Digital and DTS pass-through, don't you think it might be a good idea to test that it still works?"

What fun :-)

- Julian

Malor
2005-10-26, 01:46
Ye gods, those people are high. I thought my expensive speakers up front weren't too great for music because of the Audigy 2's 48khz resample.. they sounded dynamite in movies (native 48khz signal), but the treble was kind of mutilated in music. I couldn't believe how much better they sounded when I fed them a lossless signal.

The Audigy doesn't do a very good resample, and presumably the Roku will do a better job, but I still wouldn't touch one of those things with a ten foot pole. Sheesh.

(hi all, btw. second post, though I asked for my first to be deleted, as I solved the problem. :) )