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View Full Version : Quick survey for genre filter prefs in Random Mix



max.spicer
2005-10-04, 15:12
The new version of SlimServer will include an updated random mix plugin. This lets you create random mixes from all the songs in your collection, and also lets you specify which genres should be excluded from the mix. For example, you could say "whenever creating random mixes, exclude all Childrens Music and all Spoken Word". I'd like to know if people would find it useful to be able to specify the list of exclusions on a per player basis. This would, for example, let you have the upstairs player include Childrens Music, whilst the downstairs player always excludes it. The downside of this is that you'd have to configure each player separately, even if you wanted them to be the same.

Does the above sound good, or should the preference be set globally for all players?

dSw
2005-10-04, 15:25
Globally would be fine for my needs.

MrC
2005-10-04, 15:42
Ideally, you could create Random Mix Playlists which captures the parameters of which genres are selected. For example, one could have playlists such as:

RandomPlayList+Songs+Jazz+Instrumental
RandomPlaylist+Albums+Death+Metal+Acid
RandomPlayList+Songs+Classical+Opera

which capture the various parameters when the playlist was created. This way, any player could use these playlists

Make sense?

Greg Klanderman
2005-10-04, 15:44
Hi Max, thanks for adding this feature!! I don't much care
which way it works at this point as I only have one SB..

greg

mherger
2005-10-04, 23:44
> Ideally, you could create Random Mix Playlists which captures the
> parameters of which genres are selected.

I'd second this. I have players in all corners of my flat ;-). But
sometimes it's me listening, sometimes my girl friend. We have different
moods, preferences etc. Player specific are of little use for us.

> which capture the various parameters when the playlist was created.
> This way, any player could use these playlists
>
> Make sense?

Yes! Perfect sense.

--

Michael

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max.spicer
2005-10-04, 23:57
I'm not quite with you, could you explain a bit more?

Max


Ideally, you could create Random Mix Playlists which captures the parameters of which genres are selected. For example, one could have playlists such as:

RandomPlayList+Songs+Jazz+Instrumental
RandomPlaylist+Albums+Death+Metal+Acid
RandomPlayList+Songs+Classical+Opera

which capture the various parameters when the playlist was created. This way, any player could use these playlists

Make sense?

max.spicer
2005-10-04, 23:58
Oh, you mean that you want to be able to create a mix using the selected genres, then have the option to say "save this mix as..." and then have that appear as a new mix type, essentially?

Max


I'm not quite with you, could you explain a bit more?

Max

mherger
2005-10-05, 00:08
> Oh, you mean that you want to be able to create a mix using the selected
> genres, then have the option to say "save this mix as..." and then have
> that appear as a new mix type, essentially?

I can't speak for MrC, but that's how I understood his proposal, yes.

--

Michael

-----------------------------------------------------------
Help translate SlimServer by using the
SlimString Translation Helper (http://www.herger.net/slim/)

kdf
2005-10-05, 00:17
On 5-Oct-05, at 12:08 AM, Michael Herger wrote:

>> Oh, you mean that you want to be able to create a mix using the
>> selected
>> genres, then have the option to say "save this mix as..." and then
>> have
>> that appear as a new mix type, essentially?
>
> I can't speak for MrC, but that's how I understood his proposal, yes.
>
me too, and I've love to see something like that. I'd suggest holding
off on the feature at that scale until after 6.2, however.
Dan did already announce a feature hold, and it is probably a good time
to just work through any kinks in the existing random plugin at the
moment. Having the genre prefs slotted into player/server qualifies
more as a cleanup at this point. Creating a whole new playlist type
with dynamic functions might be overstepping a bit for now.

-kdf

max.spicer
2005-10-05, 00:18
I'll put that on the "future" list. :-) It's a good idea, but I don't fancy coding it just yet.

Max


> Oh, you mean that you want to be able to create a mix using the selected
> genres, then have the option to say "save this mix as..." and then have
> that appear as a new mix type, essentially?

I can't speak for MrC, but that's how I understood his proposal, yes.

MrC
2005-10-05, 00:22
Yes, you both have exactly got it!

Max, your random mix plugin mods have made my wife a very happy person, and of course, this makes me a happier person too!

Thanks!

JohnQuirk
2005-10-05, 04:22
Max,
Thanks very much for your work on this, I'm a big fan already. I have 4 players dotted around the house, soon to be six, if possible I'd like to be able to :

1. Random play excluding specific genres for each specific player
2. Random play on only specific genres for each player, i.e. play only children & christmas

But just being able to exclude childrens would be a bonus for me for now.

Thanks again

JQ

dip
2005-10-05, 04:36
To be more flexible I would prefer a per player setting. But I am also happy if you decide to make it a global setting.

Shortly speaking, I am happy that you in general made the genre selection for random mix possible! Thanks a lot.

max.spicer
2005-10-05, 04:51
So is that a vote for per-client settings? You can have a mix that only includes specific genres by excluding all the others. There will be a select all/none feature to make this sort of thing quicker.

Max


Max,
Thanks very much for your work on this, I'm a big fan already. I have 4 players dotted around the house, soon to be six, if possible I'd like to be able to :

1. Random play excluding specific genres for each specific player
2. Random play on only specific genres for each player, i.e. play only children & christmas

But just being able to exclude childrens would be a bonus for me for now.

Thanks again

JQ

max.spicer
2005-10-05, 04:58
Don't worry, there's no way that's going in any time soon. I'm purely working on the features that Dean has agreed to or suggested atm.

Max



me too, and I've love to see something like that. I'd suggest holding
off on the feature at that scale until after 6.2, however.
Dan did already announce a feature hold, and it is probably a good time
to just work through any kinks in the existing random plugin at the
moment. Having the genre prefs slotted into player/server qualifies
more as a cleanup at this point. Creating a whole new playlist type
with dynamic functions might be overstepping a bit for now.

-kdf

Philip Meyer
2005-10-05, 11:55
How about both? :-)

A user could globally exclude some genres, and also exclude other genres on a per-player basis.

For example, I'd quite like to:

Always (Globally) exclude christmas, interviews, spoken word genres.
Exclude some genres such as ambient for my bedroom player (no good as an alarm clock!).
Include only rock genre for my lounge player.

As another idea, I'd like to exclude long songs (anything over 10 mins) from the bedroom player. I guess I could achieve this by creating a "long" genre, and adding that as an additional genre tag to any track I consider to be long.

In fact (enhancement request...), would it be possible to get the plugin to detect a new tag on tracks, such as "RANDOMEXCLUDE=Y", so users can have more control over random track exclusions?

Phil

JohnQuirk
2005-10-05, 14:20
Yes, that's a vote on a per-player basis, though I can imagine that a per-server setting would have broader appeal and to be honest it would be perfectly adequate for me, I have a fetish about over complicating things...

max.spicer
2005-10-05, 14:24
Thanks for the opinions, folks. I've gone for a global setting now. I like the idea of being able to create a new mix type for a particular set of genres. I'll try and get that done some point post 6.2.

Max

JJZolx
2005-10-05, 16:00
Is it possible to make it interactive from the web interface, rather than being a server/player pref or using saved settings? Say when you go into Random Mix, you're presented with a form that shows you all the genres in the library (all checked, or remember most recent settings) and then you uncheck/check off whichever you want before hitting 'Play'. A couple of scripted buttons for 'Select All' and 'Unselect All' and you have a nice interface.

Right now how do you handle tracks listed under (tagged with) multiple genres? If I have a track that is tagged both 'New Age' and 'Jazz' and I exclude 'Jazz' will the track be included?

max.spicer
2005-10-05, 23:56
I did that yesterday. ;-) With any luck, it should be in yesterday's nightly, but only for the Default skin for now. The select all should appear soon (once I've written it).


Is it possible to make it interactive from the web interface, rather than being a server/player pref or using saved settings? Say when you go into Random Mix, you're presented with a form that shows you all the genres in the library (all checked, or remember most recent settings) and then you uncheck/check off whichever you want before hitting 'Play'. A couple of scripted buttons for 'Select All' and 'Unselect All' and you have a nice interface.

I don't handle them per se. If a track has two genres and you only exclude one, it will still get included.


Right now how do you handle tracks listed under (tagged with) multiple genres? If I have a track that is tagged both 'New Age' and 'Jazz' and I exclude 'Jazz' will the track be included?

Max

Mark.Bennett
2005-10-06, 00:57
On Wed, 2005-10-05 at 23:56 -0700, max.spicer wrote:
> JJZolx Wrote:
> > Is it possible to make it interactive from the web interface, rather
> > than being a server/player pref or using saved settings? Say when you
> > go into Random Mix, you're presented with a form that shows you all the
> > genres in the library (all checked, or remember most recent settings)
> > and then you uncheck/check off whichever you want before hitting
> > 'Play'. A couple of scripted buttons for 'Select All' and 'Unselect
> > All' and you have a nice interface.
>
> I don't handle them per se. If a track has two genres and you only
> exclude one, it will still get included.

This sounds backwards to me. The track should be excluded as soon as
any individual tag matches the exclusion criteria. I.e. a track with
"Rock" and "Explicit" genre tags should not show up in a selection
excluding "Explicit". At the moment it sounds like it would.

--
"The biggest problem encountered while trying to design a system that
was completely foolproof, was, that people tended to underestimate the
ingenuity of complete fools." (Douglas Adams)

max.spicer
2005-10-06, 03:52
I don't think it's backwards. For example, I have Bach's Christmas Oratorio under Baroque and Christmas. I also have Christmas No 1s under Christmas. If I exclude Christmas, I don't get the No 1s, but I do get Christmas Oratario (which isn't that Christmassy anyway!). I have deliberately placed the oratorio under Baroque and so still want it unless I say no Baroque. Anyway, it's not really going to happen any other way without an awful lot of effort.

Max



This sounds backwards to me. The track should be excluded as soon as
any individual tag matches the exclusion criteria. I.e. a track with
"Rock" and "Explicit" genre tags should not show up in a selection
excluding "Explicit". At the moment it sounds like it would.

Greg Klanderman
2005-10-06, 05:56
>>>>> Mark Bennett <mark (AT) markandliz (DOT) co.uk> writes:

> This sounds backwards to me. The track should be excluded as soon as
> any individual tag matches the exclusion criteria. I.e. a track with
> "Rock" and "Explicit" genre tags should not show up in a selection
> excluding "Explicit". At the moment it sounds like it would.

Agreed; it would be silly to require matching all genre tags.
Seems you want the ability to include or exclude any genre, by
matching a single genre tag, and with excludes taking precedence.

Then one can include "Rock" and exclude "Explicit" and get all
non-explicit rock music.

greg

dean
2005-10-06, 08:18
It really comes down to whether the genre feature is inclusive or
exclusive.

It seems to me that making it exclusive (i.e. "omit all songs that
match the unchecked genres") is more useful than inclusive ("include
songs that match any checked genre"). This solves the play me
anything that's not Christmas music problem.

Of course, most people only have one genre per song, so it only
affects those of us with multiple genres per song.


On Oct 6, 2005, at 12:57 AM, Mark Bennett wrote:

> On Wed, 2005-10-05 at 23:56 -0700, max.spicer wrote:
>
>> JJZolx Wrote:
>>
>>> Is it possible to make it interactive from the web interface, rather
>>> than being a server/player pref or using saved settings? Say
>>> when you
>>> go into Random Mix, you're presented with a form that shows you
>>> all the
>>> genres in the library (all checked, or remember most recent
>>> settings)
>>> and then you uncheck/check off whichever you want before hitting
>>> 'Play'. A couple of scripted buttons for 'Select All' and 'Unselect
>>> All' and you have a nice interface.
>>>
>>
>> I don't handle them per se. If a track has two genres and you only
>> exclude one, it will still get included.
>>
>
> This sounds backwards to me. The track should be excluded as soon as
> any individual tag matches the exclusion criteria. I.e. a track with
> "Rock" and "Explicit" genre tags should not show up in a selection
> excluding "Explicit". At the moment it sounds like it would.
>
> --
> "The biggest problem encountered while trying to design a system that
> was completely foolproof, was, that people tended to underestimate the
> ingenuity of complete fools." (Douglas Adams)
>
>
>

Marc Sherman
2005-10-06, 10:24
dean blackketter wrote:
> It really comes down to whether the genre feature is inclusive or
> exclusive.
>
> It seems to me that making it exclusive (i.e. "omit all songs that
> match the unchecked genres") is more useful than inclusive ("include
> songs that match any checked genre"). This solves the play me anything
> that's not Christmas music problem.

http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=15787&page=32&pp=1

- Marc

max.spicer
2005-10-06, 10:44
What are you trying to say? That link goes to a post that doesn't seem relevant at all.

Max



http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=15787&page=32&pp=1

- Marc

Marc Sherman
2005-10-06, 12:12
max.spicer wrote:
> What are you trying to say? That link goes to a post that doesn't seem
> relevant at all.
>

People seem to be debating the behaviour of inclusion and exclusion of
each individual genre; my point is that it makes more sense to think of
a tri-state for each genre, "exclude", "include", or "ignore".

- Marc

Roy Owen
2005-10-07, 04:32
I haven't commented so far, but what does "ignore" mean? "exclude" and
"include" make sense.

On 10/6/05, Marc Sherman <msherman (AT) projectile (DOT) ca> wrote:
>
> max.spicer wrote:
> > What are you trying to say? That link goes to a post that doesn't seem
> > relevant at all.
> >
>
> People seem to be debating the behaviour of inclusion and exclusion of
> each individual genre; my point is that it makes more sense to think of
> a tri-state for each genre, "exclude", "include", or "ignore".
>
> - Marc
>

Greg Klanderman
2005-10-07, 05:26
>>>>> Roy Owen <yddraig (AT) gmail (DOT) com> writes:

> I haven't commented so far, but what does "ignore" mean? "exclude"
> and "include" make sense.

I think it just means you have not chosen to include or exclude that
genre. I would think of it more like two checkboxes for each genre -
you can either check "include", "exclude", or neither (but not both).

greg

Marc Sherman
2005-10-07, 06:53
Roy Owen wrote:
> I haven't commented so far, but what does "ignore" mean? "exclude"
> and "include" make sense.

It means don't pay attention to that genre either way. For example, if
I want to create a playlist that includes all rock and folk songs,
except for those with explicit lyrics, I'd set INCLUDE for Rock and
Folk, EXCLUDE for Explicit, and IGNORE (which would presumably be the
default setting) for all other genres.

So if I have the following songs in my collection:

A: Rock;Explicit
B: Rock;Canadian
C: Folk;Canadian
D: Punk;Canadian
E: Folk;Rock;Explicit

the playlist would include songs B and C only.

Here's some pseudocode for the algorithm that may help you understand
better:

foreach song in allsongs()
if song.genres().intersect(excludes).isEmpty() &&
!song.genres().intersect(includes).isEmpty() then
playlist.add(song);
end if
end foreach

- Marc

ceejay
2005-10-31, 08:17
I was following this thread but it went all quiet... so let me try and revive the discussion. I'm with Marc as in the last post... noting that this only makes sense if you have multiple genres in use (which I do, quite a lot), there are three possible values for each genre (include, exclude, don't care).

Is anyone looking at this, or is this just too much of a minority requirement right now?

BTW, I should say that I think the Random Play feature as it stands is absolutely excellent, I am using it quite a bit, so much better than a dumb "shuffle anything from the library" approach. I'm just looking for some icing on the cake. If I was brave enough I might even have a go at it myself, I just might possibly manage the player end of things but I know I'd have no chance on the web page construction.

Ceejay