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PAUL WILLIAMSON
2005-09-29, 07:09
>>> yubyub.1w4i5b (AT) no-mx (DOT) forums.slimdevices.com 09/29/05 9:46 AM >>>
>
> Paul,
>
> <sigh>

Oh boy, here comes the drama...

> I think you're looking at this from the point of view of
> someone who loves the device, and can't see it's flaws
> - not from the point of view of someone who is evaluating.

I can see the flaws, and I've chosen to deal with the ones
I can control...

> I frankly don't care if it's open source or not. I care about
> how it interoperates with other devices.

My sb and slimp3 interoperate just fine with my stereo and TV.
My mediamvp interoperates not only with another TV, but
another piece of software I'm running on my server.

> I care about how it works in the palm of my hand, or on my
> shelf. I care about how flexible it is - I don't want to be
> tied down in terms of what I use the product with.

I don't see this as being a problem. I have TelCanto and
it works great in the palm of my hand. It also works great
at work, because I no longer have to bring CDs back and
forth - I just listen on my work PC from slimserver all day.
That's way more than I could hope to do with any other
product.

> Whether it talks to a server which is open or closed
> source is irrelivant - as long as I have a standard method
> of interaction (UPnP, whatever), I have other options available.

To me it's as important as DRMed CDs. I've returned 4 CDs
in the past month - after they have been opened - because
they are not CDs, but music discs. A CD needs to adhere
to a certain standard - the redbook standard. upnp is
just one method of interaction, there's also CLI and
http as well.

> Take programming for example: I don't care what C
> library I use. I usually don't care what kernel I run.
> I have a standard API that I get to use. I can move
> my code from NetBSD to Linux to FreeBSD to AIX to
> Solaris with minor to no difficulties as long as I conform
> to the common APIs. I don't care if the kernel is open
> source (NetBSD, Linux, FreeBSD) or closed (AIX, Solaris).

I do, because if I discover a problem with the kernel,
I have the capability of fixing it...not that I have,
but the option is always there.

> The API is the common contract.

Valid point.

> Squeezebox2 has no such common contract.

The sb2 doesn't, but now you're mixing hardware and
software again.

> I'm a programmer who doesn't want to work at
> home. I just want the thing to work. And Squeezebox2
> doesn't in my case.

I am too, yet I don't mind doing a little at home as well.
Sorry to hear the sb2 doesn't work, but I've not seen
any postings related to technical problems you've had.

> And I have no alternative but to use something else.

The way you see it, sure. A Sonos is just a PC with a
totally closed piece of software, some music clients
and a very fancy remote control.

SB2 is a piece of hardware, similar to the Sonos clients.
If you don't want to tinker, get an mp3beamer. It's based
on slimserver and blows the doors off of Sonos. TelCanto
is software that runs on a handheld, similar to the
Sonos remote.

If things "just work" for me, my engineering background
tends to take over and pull it apart to figure out what
is making it just work. I figure I'll skip that and just put it
together from the start so I know why it just works, which
is what slimserver does for me. Obviously, YMMV.

> Thanks for your opinions.

It's just a shame that you seem to have made up your
mind and haven't really said what technical problems
you're having.

Then again, if you'd be more happy going with Sonos,
at least you seem to have given the squeezebox
a look.

Paul

yubyub
2005-09-29, 07:48
I can see the flaws, and I've chosen to deal with the ones I can control...
<take this lightly ;-> Me too - I bought a Sonos ;-)


My sb and slimp3 interoperate just fine with my stereo and TV. My mediamvp interoperates not only with another TV, but
another piece of software I'm running on my server.
I want my player (Squeezebox, whatever) to do exactly the same - interoperate with any other device (where practical).


I do, because if I discover a problem with the kernel,
I have the capability of fixing it...not that I have,
but the option is always there.
I see your point, but there's always a line to draw in the sand here. I could say that if I find a problem with the cpu, I want to fix it - so I only use CPUs which are fpgas, and hence only use old versions of the SPARC processor.

Perhaps we draw the line at a different point?

The sb2 doesn't, but now you're mixing hardware and
software again.
Well, I'm viewing it as a product. Hardware/software/firmware - doesn't really matter. I don't really care how an iPod is constructed, and how much of it is firmware or hardware. I care that I can drop MP3s on it and it works (or perhaps that I can't drop FLAC or ObbVorbis on it). In this case, MP3 is an example of the common contract. And, you could make the argument that MP3 is proprietary - Fraunhofer holds patents on it, and is therefore their intellectual property. It is, however, practially an open standard - everybody knows about it, everybody uses it, there are no secrets to it, everybody uses it. I don't care how device X decodes MP3 - I care that I can feed device X an MP3 and it plays.

It's just a shame that you seem to have made up your
mind and haven't really said what technical problems
you're having.
I'll paraphrase from my 2nd post:

My NAS device runs Slimserver. Unfortunately, the version of Slimserver it runs won't transcode m4a files (AAC) - not enough horsepower on the box apparently. I know the standard version of Slimserver will do this, but that would require another boxen to run Slimserver. I don't want to run another boxen. Hence, Slimserver/Squeezebox2 won't play m4a's in my case.

I want to keep everything in m4a, so I can't use the Slimserver/Squeezebox2 with the setup that I want.

Thanks again for the comments.

stinkingpig
2005-09-29, 08:24
yubyub wrote:
....
>>It's just a shame that you seem to have made up your
>>mind and haven't really said what technical problems
>>you're having.
>
> I'll paraphrase from my 2nd post:
>
> My NAS device runs Slimserver. Unfortunately, the version of
> Slimserver it runs won't transcode m4a files (AAC) - not enough
> horsepower on the box apparently. I know the standard version of
> Slimserver will do this, but that would require another boxen to run
> Slimserver. I don't want to run another boxen. Hence,
> Slimserver/Squeezebox2 won't play m4a's in my case.
>
> I want to keep everything in m4a, so I can't use the
> Slimserver/Squeezebox2 with the setup that I want.
>
> Thanks again for the comments.
>
>

No product is perfect for everyone because everyone's desires are
different. One person's showstopper is another's who-cares workaround. I
think as long as we stick to a few core, ground-truths or Laws, if you
will, it will be okay:

Law the First: Computers Suck.
Law the Second: People Suck.
Law the Third: Work Sucks.
Law the Fourth (Corrolary): People Working on or with Computers Triple
the Suckitude.

--
Jack at Monkeynoodle dot Org: It's A Scientific Venture...
"If this is Paradise, I wish I had a lawnmower." -- The Talking Heads

Dan Sully
2005-09-29, 11:27
* yubyub shaped the electrons to say...

>My NAS device runs Slimserver. Unfortunately, the version of
>Slimserver it runs won't transcode m4a files (AAC) - not enough
>horsepower on the box apparently. I know the standard version of
>Slimserver will do this, but that would require another boxen to run
>Slimserver. I don't want to run another boxen. Hence,
>Slimserver/Squeezebox2 won't play m4a's in my case.
>
>I want to keep everything in m4a, so I can't use the
>Slimserver/Squeezebox2 with the setup that I want.

AAC only works out of the box using SlimServer on OSX & Windows. Unless your
NAS vendor provides FAAD to decode AAC on the fly, you'll need to find some
way to install it on your NAS so that SlimServer can transcode it.

Search the forum archives for how others have done this.

-D
--
( ( ( [ ] ) ) )
In Stereo Where
Available