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View Full Version : OT: Power line network adaptors (was: Okay,maybe it's time to call it a day...)



Dan Goodinson
2005-09-23, 02:32
I'm interested in learning a bit more about these power line adaptors...
They would seem to be a pretty much perfect solution for transferring
large files to/from my fileserver. I really don't want to have cables
all over the house which is why I opted for wireless. But wireless is
painfully slow at transferring large amounts of data :( I could totally
do with a "backup" network that I can plug into (no pun intended) to
transfer videos from laptop to server and vice versa.

So how do these things work then? If I had an adaptor out where the
fileserver is, and an adaptor in the lounge somewhere, do they come with
any sort of built-in configuration? Or does it effectively open a
"straight through" channel (like a crossover cable, or something)?

Like - I could connect a hub/switch out where my fileserver is, connect
it to the power line adaptor in uplink mode? And same in the lounge?
Do I actually need hubs/switches (given that I already have a wireless
router access point?

(I should be able to work all this out, but I can't quite visualise it
;)

-----Original Message-----
From: discuss-bounces (AT) lists (DOT) slimdevices.com
[mailto:discuss-bounces (AT) lists (DOT) slimdevices.com] On Behalf Of Pale Blue
Ego
Sent: 23 September 2005 06:01
To: discuss (AT) lists (DOT) slimdevices.com
Subject: [slim] Re: Okay, maybe it's time to call it a day...



Anyone having problems with wireless and can't run ethernet might want
to try a set of powerline network adapters. They cost about $110 a
pair, use the existing electric wires in your walls, and are very
reliable. Zero configuration - plug 'em in and they work. Netgear,
Belkin, and others make them. I have Netgear and they work beautifully.


--
Pale Blue Ego

Fifer
2005-09-23, 03:42
I haven't used them but this (http://www.devolo.co.uk/uk_EN/button/dlanfaq.html) might help answer some of your questions.

Philip Downer
2005-09-23, 03:59
On Fri, 2005-09-23 at 03:42 -0700, Fifer wrote:
> I haven't used them but 'this'
> (http://www.devolo.co.uk/uk_EN/button/dlanfaq.html) might help answer
> some of your questions.

I can highly recommend the Devolo homeplug products they are very good,
and they have now released setup tools for Linux and OS X which work
very well.

Phil

Robin Bowes
2005-09-23, 04:50
Philip Downer wrote:
> On Fri, 2005-09-23 at 03:42 -0700, Fifer wrote:
>
>>I haven't used them but 'this'
>>(http://www.devolo.co.uk/uk_EN/button/dlanfaq.html) might help answer
>>some of your questions.
>
>
> I can highly recommend the Devolo homeplug products they are very good,
> and they have now released setup tools for Linux and OS X which work
> very well.

I've just ordered an Acer Homeplug Ethernet Kit from Amazon - two
adaptors for 42 delivered!

If they don't work, they're going back, but you can't complain at the price!

R.
--
http://robinbowes.com

If a man speaks in a forest,
and his wife's not there,
is he still wrong?

Michael Haan
2005-09-23, 08:50
I've seen quite a few messages on this apologies for not having read them
all. I've been using powerline to haul traffic between floors of my three
story townhouse for a couple years now. It's very simple and
interoperability doesn't seem to be a problem as I have a mix of belkin and
linksys.


>From: "Dan Goodinson" <Dan.Goodinson (AT) businessobjects (DOT) com>
>Reply-To: Slim Devices Discussion <discuss (AT) lists (DOT) slimdevices.com>
>To: "Slim Devices Discussion" <discuss (AT) lists (DOT) slimdevices.com>
>Subject: [slim] OT: Power line network adaptors (was: Okay,maybe it's time
>to call it a day...)
>Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2005 11:32:19 +0200
>
>I'm interested in learning a bit more about these power line adaptors...
>They would seem to be a pretty much perfect solution for transferring
>large files to/from my fileserver. I really don't want to have cables
>all over the house which is why I opted for wireless. But wireless is
>painfully slow at transferring large amounts of data :( I could totally
>do with a "backup" network that I can plug into (no pun intended) to
>transfer videos from laptop to server and vice versa.
>
>So how do these things work then? If I had an adaptor out where the
>fileserver is, and an adaptor in the lounge somewhere, do they come with
>any sort of built-in configuration? Or does it effectively open a
>"straight through" channel (like a crossover cable, or something)?
>
>Like - I could connect a hub/switch out where my fileserver is, connect
>it to the power line adaptor in uplink mode? And same in the lounge?
>Do I actually need hubs/switches (given that I already have a wireless
>router access point?
>
>(I should be able to work all this out, but I can't quite visualise it
>;)
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: discuss-bounces (AT) lists (DOT) slimdevices.com
>[mailto:discuss-bounces (AT) lists (DOT) slimdevices.com] On Behalf Of Pale Blue
>Ego
>Sent: 23 September 2005 06:01
>To: discuss (AT) lists (DOT) slimdevices.com
>Subject: [slim] Re: Okay, maybe it's time to call it a day...
>
>
>
>Anyone having problems with wireless and can't run ethernet might want
>to try a set of powerline network adapters. They cost about $110 a
>pair, use the existing electric wires in your walls, and are very
>reliable. Zero configuration - plug 'em in and they work. Netgear,
>Belkin, and others make them. I have Netgear and they work beautifully.
>
>
>--
>Pale Blue Ego
>

jhall_uk
2005-09-23, 10:52
I have ST&T powerline network adapters running at home. They were probably one my most intelligent techie purchase decisions. My home suffers from being an awkward shape - long, thin, internal brick walls. When I moved into the place I noticed my wireless network could not cope with the distance and walls, and I had no signal between ends of the house. Not very handy as my living room (SB2 and hifi) and study (where my main PC and slimserver are located) are at opposite ends.

I therefore purchased two powerline adapters (less than 70 each in 2003) and they were up and running in a couple of minutes. Each unit is sized about the same as a wireless hub (but without the antennae) and has one ethernet socket. They are simply transparant portals to your electric ring circuit. You do need a router to assign IP addresses to your computer devices, but no to the units. The units have a separate diagnostic utility to measure signal strength over your ring main.

There is 56 bit Data Encryption with Key Management protection, in case someone plugs in another unit to the powerline network. However, it is effectively a sealed network as residential electricity wiring is closed to a single home via the consumer unit. Who else will be in your home, unauthorised, and trying to hack into your network from the inside? Not likely. Unless you're in a big student halls of residence that is... Ok, apart from that.

As they don't rely on antennae to be strategically positioned to get maximum signal coverage you can stuff them in a cupboard out of site. The only limitation with my units is that they need to be plugged into a wall socket and not a surge protected extension cable. In case you were wondering, they are quiet - they don't buzz or hum etc.

You can have up to 12 units connected across your home. They all use the same electricity wiring for signal transportation using IEEE 802.3, IEEE 802.3U or HomePlug 1.0 standards. It doesn't matter which circuit they are connected on - they communicate via the common consumer unit in the home. My study and living room are on separate rings and they communicate just fine.

The speed on my units are quite slow by today's standards - 14mbps (there is probably some transmission overhead in that gross figure), but it is reliable and doesn't suffer from noticable signal degradation like my wireless hub. This speed is fine for serving broadband throughout my home and for serving a SB2 and Slimpey concurrently in different rooms.

I've taken a quick look on the internet and you get units today rated up to 85mbps for around 50 each. Excellent - I may have to upgrade! No doubt the speed ratings will improve yet further through time.

I have a mix of wired, powerline and wireless G networking through my home. All works fine together.

Cheers,
John

Michaelwagner
2005-09-23, 11:50
This might be a good place to say where you are located geographically (country is enough).

The reason I say this is that homes are wired differently in Europe and North America, and for power line network adaptors it may matter.

In Europe (at least in Germany where I was), power is 220V, 50Hz, all the outlets in one house can reasonably be expected to be on the same side of the first external power company transformer.

This is not true in Canada, and I expect not in the US either.

In Canada, houses are supplied with symmettric 3 wire (plus ground) 220-240V. That is, 3 wires come into the house, a Neutral (not ground), and 2 other wires that are 180 out of phase. 110-120V to the outlets is developed in half the house between Neutral and one phase, and in the other half of the house between Neutral and the other phase. So you cannot count on the two outlets you chose being in parallel. They may be on opposite sides of the transformer winding out on the street.

I think the same is true in the US, although, frankly, when visiting the US I don't normally poke my head in other people's electrical entranceways, so I can't be sure. :-)

FWIW, Canadian factories are supplied with 600V 3 phase, (which is a nice submultiple of a standard transmission voltage) and american factories (for some reason I can't figure out) are 440V 3 phase. And you thought we shared a common power grid?

Michael Haan
2005-09-23, 11:58
I'm in the U and my bridges are on different circuits, but I have no idea about this other stuff you mention.













From:&nbsp;&nbsp;Michaelwagner &lt;Michaelwagner.1vts9n (AT) no-mx (DOT) forums.slimdevices.com&gt;
Reply-To:&nbsp;&nbsp;Slim Devices Discussion &lt;discuss (AT) lists (DOT) slimdevices.com&gt;
To:&nbsp;&nbsp;discuss (AT) lists (DOT) slimdevices.com
Subject:&nbsp;&nbsp;[slim] Re: OT: Power line network adaptors (was: Okay,maybe it's time to call it a day...)
Date:&nbsp;&nbsp;Fri, 23 Sep 2005 11:50:27 -0700
&gt;This might be a good place to say where you are located geographically
&gt;(country is enough).
&gt;
&gt;The reason I say this is that homes are wired differently in Europe and
&gt;North America, and for power line network adaptors it may matter.
&gt;
&gt;In Europe (at least in Germany where I was), power is 220V, 50Hz, all
&gt;the outlets in one house can reasonably be expected to be on the same
&gt;side of the first external power company transformer.
&gt;
&gt;This is not true in Canada, and I expect not in the US either.
&gt;
&gt;In Canada, houses are supplied with symmettric 3 wire (plus ground)
&gt;220-240V. That is, 3 wires come into the house, a Neutral (not ground),
&gt;and 2 other wires that are 180 out of phase. 110-120V to the outlets is
&gt;developed in half the house between Neutral and one phase, and in the
&gt;other half of the house between Neutral and the other phase. So you
&gt;cannot count on the two outlets you chose being in parallel. They may
&gt;be on opposite sides of the transformer winding out on the street.
&gt;
&gt;I think the same is true in the US, although, frankly, when visiting
&gt;the US I don't normally poke my head in other people's electrical
&gt;entranceways, so I can't be sure. :-)
&gt;
&gt;FWIW, Canadian factories are supplied with 600V 3 phase, (which is a
&gt;nice submultiple of a standard transmission voltage) and american
&gt;factories (for some reason I can't figure out) are 440V 3 phase. And
&gt;you thought we shared a common power grid?
&gt;
&gt;
&gt;--
&gt;Michaelwagner
&gt;_______________________________________________
&gt;Discuss mailing list
&gt;Discuss (AT) lists (DOT) slimdevices.com
&gt;http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss

Jess Askey
2005-09-23, 12:19
I am in the U.S. and you are correct, we have 3-wire ~240V with a singel
neutral and two hot ~120V taps that are 180 degress out of phase with a
seperate ground.

Maybe the 600V vs. 440V is due to the canadian/US exchange rate. :-P


Michaelwagner wrote:

>This might be a good place to say where you are located geographically
>(country is enough).
>
>The reason I say this is that homes are wired differently in Europe and
>North America, and for power line network adaptors it may matter.
>
>In Europe (at least in Germany where I was), power is 220V, 50Hz, all
>the outlets in one house can reasonably be expected to be on the same
>side of the first external power company transformer.
>
>This is not true in Canada, and I expect not in the US either.
>
>In Canada, houses are supplied with symmettric 3 wire (plus ground)
>220-240V. That is, 3 wires come into the house, a Neutral (not ground),
>and 2 other wires that are 180 out of phase. 110-120V to the outlets is
>developed in half the house between Neutral and one phase, and in the
>other half of the house between Neutral and the other phase. So you
>cannot count on the two outlets you chose being in parallel. They may
>be on opposite sides of the transformer winding out on the street.
>
>I think the same is true in the US, although, frankly, when visiting
>the US I don't normally poke my head in other people's electrical
>entranceways, so I can't be sure. :-)
>
>FWIW, Canadian factories are supplied with 600V 3 phase, (which is a
>nice submultiple of a standard transmission voltage) and american
>factories (for some reason I can't figure out) are 440V 3 phase. And
>you thought we shared a common power grid?
>
>
>
>

biggles
2005-09-24, 07:44
Here in Sweden we also have different phases. I read the material about the homeplugs and it manages to work over different phases.

Mark Lanctot
2006-02-19, 22:19
Michaelwagner:

Definitely keep us updated. I'd be interested to see what your experience is.

It's mostly for curiosity's sake as unless I get a monster house, my SB3 in my listening area will always be fairly close to my router (within one floor). The SB2 in my basement will be stretching it, but the SB2 has enough wireless power and reception ability that I don't think it will be a problem.

Of course if I do get a monster-sized house in a few years, it will be due to a financial windfall which means I'll be able to afford those super-pricey homeplugs! :-) Currently, for the price of two, I can get 4 (count 'em, FOUR) Linksys WRT54G routers!

robinbowes
2006-02-20, 06:43
Philip Downer wrote:
> On Fri, 2005-09-23 at 03:42 -0700, Fifer wrote:
>
>>I haven't used them but 'this'
>>(http://www.devolo.co.uk/uk_EN/button/dlanfaq.html) might help answer
>>some of your questions.
>
>
> I can highly recommend the Devolo homeplug products they are very good,
> and they have now released setup tools for Linux and OS X which work
> very well.

I've just ordered an Acer Homeplug Ethernet Kit from Amazon - two
adaptors for 42 delivered!

If they don't work, they're going back, but you can't complain at the price!

These never arrived. Amazon kept putting back the delivery date and eventually cancelled my order after about 4 months.

R.

Ken
2006-02-20, 14:18
Try this link http://www.mutek.co.uk/ I have purchased Home Plug stuff from them. They normaly deliver in a day or two.

My experience is that it is a quick and easy way of networking and it delivers for one of my SB2s sending FLAC files which are transcoded on the SB2.

Ken

bpa
2006-02-20, 15:20
I have devolo 85mpbs and it enables me to network a place where wireless didn't reach. I got them from the Uk supplier in a day or two.
Here's an article whic may be useful.
http://www.tomsnetworking.com/Sections-article155.php

pedalvet
2006-02-20, 18:30
FWIW I use Belkin Powerline adaptors, and they are the greatest thing since sliced bread! I had a wireless network that was too distant to work reliably. Network would flake out constantly. I spent countless hours troubleshooting it. I finally gave up and got the powerline stuff. I plugged it in to the wall, plugged in the ethernet cables, and it worked. No set up whatsoever (YMMV)and it has not flaked out once in 2 years. I strongly recommend this!

jeffmeh
2006-02-20, 19:16
I am in the U.S. and you are correct, we have 3-wire ~240V with a singel
neutral and two hot ~120V taps that are 180 degress out of phase with a
seperate ground.

Maybe the 600V vs. 440V is due to the canadian/US exchange rate. :-P


Michaelwagner wrote:

>This might be a good place to say where you are located geographically
>(country is enough).
>
>The reason I say this is that homes are wired differently in Europe and
>North America, and for power line network adaptors it may matter.
>
>In Europe (at least in Germany where I was), power is 220V, 50Hz, all
>the outlets in one house can reasonably be expected to be on the same
>side of the first external power company transformer.
>
>This is not true in Canada, and I expect not in the US either.
>
>In Canada, houses are supplied with symmettric 3 wire (plus ground)
>220-240V. That is, 3 wires come into the house, a Neutral (not ground),
>and 2 other wires that are 180 out of phase. 110-120V to the outlets is
>developed in half the house between Neutral and one phase, and in the
>other half of the house between Neutral and the other phase. So you
>cannot count on the two outlets you chose being in parallel. They may
>be on opposite sides of the transformer winding out on the street.
>
>I think the same is true in the US, although, frankly, when visiting
>the US I don't normally poke my head in other people's electrical
>entranceways, so I can't be sure. :-)
>
>FWIW, Canadian factories are supplied with 600V 3 phase, (which is a
>nice submultiple of a standard transmission voltage) and american
>factories (for some reason I can't figure out) are 440V 3 phase. And
>you thought we shared a common power grid?
>
>
>
>

If you have standard U.S. wiring and need to run one of these networks across both sides of the panel, you (or your electrician) can couple them with a capacitor. I did this years ago when I was running an X-10 control system. You can find a better description at http://www.x10.com/support/x10trou.htm.