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bishopdonmiguel
2005-09-19, 08:27
I own 3 Squeezeboxen V1. These toys have revolutionized access to my music and it's wonderful thing. Many thanks to Sean, Dean, and all the other Slim Devices employees and open source developers who have made this happen and continue to make new things happen.

Having said that, I'd like to express a concern of late (please no flames). With 3 units, I feel I have invested heavily in the product line. My experiences to date have been GREAT but there are some little things that I've been patiently waiting/hoping to have fixed/added/improved. And recently it seemed like the time for 2 biggies was at hand... Built-in FLAC/WMA decoding, COOL... oh wait, gotta have a SB2... ReplayGain, YES!!!!... oh wait, gotta have a SB2. Is it blasphemy to admit that lately I've felt a little forgotten? As promised SilmServer continues to support my SB1's so I'm not abandoned and I SINCERELY appreciate that, but I do feel a bit like a forgotten step-child.

I understand the reason for this... we are always focused on the new thing and the hard-core developers very likely purchased (or perhaps were given) nice shiny new SB2s to encourage forward development. But for us owners on a budget who can't continually repurchase, this doesn't leave a good taste. I watched the SliMP3 for some time and then invested in SB1 because I thought it would be an upgradeable platform. I guess my timing was bad, and perhaps in some ways the SB1 was upgradeable but all the development effort (and that's what really counts) has shifted to SB2. Some long awaited features require a SB2, I feel somewhat hostage to this development approach. Either pony up and replace your hardware or live with what you have as-is. From time-to-time (measured in years) this might make sense as revolutionary enhancements often require a completely new foundation. But as a S.O.P. it makes me question my original investment, and honestly it makes me hesitant to invest further as a new model may be released at any time and my investment is rendered stagnant.

I understand that technology today is obsolete tomorrow. I also understand that for Slim Devices' business model to work it must continually advance and find new sources of revenue. Development must focus on the current generation of hardware. I suppose what I am suggesting to Sean and company is to take the time to design the next model for upgradeability. Knowing that my investment won't be spoiled will go a long way to convincing me to jump back in and purchase new units.

With this post I would like to stimulate some constructive conversation, or perhaps just express my concern and feel better about the situation by doing so. In no way is this post intended to take away from all the truly great things Slim Devices and the development community have accomplished. If I never upgrade again I will likely be happy for years. I just wish I could take advantage of the things I've been waiting for but now seem unattainable.

PAUL WILLIAMSON
2005-09-19, 08:35
I have a slimp3 (the original slimdevices hw product) and
still use it regularly. If you want to upgrade, ebay or offer
them up for sale on this list. I know I've been thinking about
getting another one, but don't need the extra stuff of the
sb2 (yet).

I'm not sure why you feel 3 is a heavy investment - I know
there are people on this list who've purchased at least 10 and
probably are thinking about selling. Just upgrade incrementally,
rather than all at once. You can probably get $150 for a good
used sb1. That means it would only cost (at most) $150 for
an sb2 - a pretty good deal IMHO.

Paul

kdf
2005-09-19, 09:37
Quoting bishopdonmiguel <bishopdonmiguel.1vm440 (AT) no-mx (DOT) forums.slimdevices.com>:

>
> I own 3 Squeezeboxen V1. These toys have revolutionized access to my
> music and it's wonderful thing. Many thanks to Sean, Dean, and all the
> other Slim Devices employees and open source developers who have made
> this happen and continue to make new things happen.
>
> Having said that, I'd like to express a concern of late (please no
> flames). With 3 units, I feel I have invested heavily in the product
> line. My experiences to date have been GREAT but there are some little
> things that I've been patiently waiting/hoping to have
> fixed/added/improved. And recently it seemed like the time for 2
> biggies was at hand... Built-in FLAC/WMA decoding, COOL... oh wait,
> gotta have a SB2... ReplayGain, YES!!!!...

Bass/Treble control!! erk...not available on SB2. Oversight, really, but still
exists. The problem is that the hardware in SB1 is limited. There were a
great number of upgrades during the life of the SB1. FW version 40 after all.
SB1 just coudn't hack a proper native FLAC implementation, or any other codecs.

If Slim Devices' plan for growth relies on things like SqueezeNetwork and its
ability to allow you to run without yoru own server then they HAD to rework the
hardware to fully support the needs of this technology. You still get the
benefit of all the development work on SlimServer, including the various
artists manaement, random play, increased graphics performance and most
importantly the rebirth of the Snow Screensaver :)

EVery effort is made for continuing support of even the SliMP3. Your original
investment is sound. You got a product with the features mentioned on release,
and many new ones that came up along the way. unfortunately, everything has a
limit. I can understand how you feel left out, but I can also assure you that
you are not forgotten. I do have SB2 players. I also have SB1 and Slimp3
players connected to my network. They still have their uses, and they are
still part of testing for any coding that I do.

-kdf

jth
2005-09-19, 10:00
Part of the issue may be that the SB1 firmware could not be open sourced, so even if the community had the resources to add additional features, it would be difficult or impossible.

As the owner of 5 pre-SB2 devices, I must admit being envious of the additional features of the SB2, but at the end of the day I think my current setup is just about perfect for my needs so I'm not complaining.

bishopdonmiguel
2005-09-19, 10:47
> I'm not sure why you feel 3 is a heavy investment
For me, $800 is a heavy investment.

> I can understand how you feel left out, but I can also assure
> you that you are not forgotten.
Yes, I do REALLY APPRECIATE that too. It is certainly one of the main reasons why I choose Slim Devices to begin with. The development community is superb.

> but at the end of the day I think my current setup is just
> about perfect for my needs so I'm not complaining.
I feel just about the same way and I'm not really complaining, although it probably sounds like I am. I suppose I am trying to encourage Slim Devices to build upgradeability into any new units. I am no engineer and I am likely oversimplifying the matter but the idea of "componentizing" the design seems logical (but perhaps impractical?). It would be nice to have the option to "plug-in" a board/chip/firmware to upgrade just the portion of the product that is important to the end user. If someone wants a new & improved display, or a better DAC, or a WMA/FLAC decoder, or ???... just buy it and plug it in.

pfarrell
2005-09-19, 11:11
On Mon, 2005-09-19 at 10:47 -0700, bishopdonmiguel wrote:
> > I'm not sure why you feel 3 is a heavy investment
> For me, $800 is a heavy investment.

Well, part of that money was gone as soon as you opened the boxes,
but there is an active used market, it would cost less
if you sold and rebought.

> I suppose I am trying to encourage Slim
> Devices to build upgradeability into any new units. I am no engineer
> and I am likely oversimplifying the matter but the idea of
> "componentizing" the design seems logical (but perhaps impractical?).

They have done this, more and more in later designs.
But something that sells for $200 is not going to have
much upgrade potential.

> If someone wants a new & improved display, or a better DAC, or a
> WMA/FLAC decoder, or ???... just buy it and plug it in.

I think most of this is impractical. Of course, the two digial outputs
of your SB1s can drive any DAC you want. But most of the external DACs
cost more than SB2s.

In general, the "upward upgrading" concept doesn't work very well
for lots of stuff. You can't put a more powerful motor in your
2003 BMW just because the 2006 version is better. Or, if you can
it costs more than it is worth. I once bought an ALR computer
that had most of its parts on plug in cards. But the cards cost
$100 and new motherboards are less.


--
Pat
http://www.pfarrell.com/music/slimserver/slimsoftware.html

kolepard
2005-09-19, 11:24
>it would cost less if you sold and rebought.

Actually, I've been thinking about doing this. I'm not a big fan of
ebay, but I guess I could go that way.

There doesn't seem to be a place to post "For Sale" on the forum, and
I don't want to dump that into the list.

Any thoughts for a "For Sale" section on the forum?

Kevin
--
Kevin O. Lepard
kolepard (AT) charter (DOT) net

Happiness is being 100% Microsoft free.

pfarrell
2005-09-19, 11:35
On Mon, 2005-09-19 at 11:24 -0700, Kevin O. Lepard wrote:
> Actually, I've been thinking about doing this. I'm not a big fan of
> ebay, but I guess I could go that way.

I really like craigslist for this kinda stuff. Works best, of course,
if there is a local section for your area.


--
Pat
http://www.pfarrell.com/music/slimserver/slimsoftware.html