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Philip Meyer
2005-09-14, 13:12
Re bug 2106:

>So, KDF, where do we stand on this? I think it looks great for 6.2 and we should open other bugs for
>other issues. Marking fixed, reopen if you disagree.
>
It's currently broken under IE6 - probably needs the following sorted before an official release:

1. The links that should be right-aligned are slightly off the right hand side of the frame.
2. I am also missing the icons on the right-hand side of the browse music frame. I see two red dots instead.


I have some additional minor comments/suggestions:

3. I think that it would be nicer to have some form of "refresh" icon next to the browse-mode pull down menu, instead of the "Home" link along the top of the frame. Pressing Home has the effect of reselecting the browse method (equivalent to selecting a different mode, and then reselecting the previous, as selecting the same mode doesn't have an effect).

4. Instead of using the "squeezebox" logo for every player, perhaps there should be "squeezebox2", "softsqueeze" and "web stream" logos dependent on the type of player that is currently selected?

5. The Play button could be moved closer to the left-hand side, to align with the Repeat option beneath it. (With a thin window, I find the trebble indicator doesn't fit in the window - moving the buttons over slightly to the left would probably make things fit nicer).

Phil

kdf
2005-09-15, 09:26
Quoting Philip Meyer <slim (AT) hergest (DOT) demon.co.uk>:

> Re bug 2106:
>
> >So, KDF, where do we stand on this? I think it looks great for 6.2 and we
> should open other bugs for
> >other issues. Marking fixed, reopen if you disagree.
> >
> It's currently broken under IE6 - probably needs the following sorted before
> an official release:

long before official, should now be fixed.

> I have some additional minor comments/suggestions:
>
> 3. I think that it would be nicer to have some form of "refresh" icon next to

well, I'm not sure about this one. I'm going to think a while. I made a
change, and as you know, there was an issue raised immediately. Home is what
users are used to, and a 'go' button is, well, cheesy. Ideally, I'd like the
menu to react to ANY selection, not just a different one.

>
> 4. Instead of using the "squeezebox" logo for every player, perhaps there
> should be "squeezebox2", "softsqueeze" and "web stream" logos dependent on
> the type of player that is currently selected?
>

The skin already does this for slimp3 and squeezebox. There is no SB2 logo
graphic. I mentioned the web stream before myself, and you know the results.
Consider is a small amount of advertising.

> 5. The Play button could be moved closer to the left-hand side, to align with
> the Repeat option beneath it. (With a thin window, I find the trebble
> indicator doesn't fit in the window - moving the buttons over slightly to the
> left would probably make things fit nicer).

Oddly, these two items were already sharing the same padding settings. On a
thin window, they are automatically squashed as far as that will allow. I have
tried to compress the controls as much as possible. It is about all I can do
without getting ugly.

-kdf

Philip Meyer
2005-09-15, 11:38
>well, I'm not sure about this one. I'm going to think a while. I made a
>change, and as you know, there was an issue raised immediately. Home is what
>users are used to, and a 'go' button is, well, cheesy. Ideally, I'd like the
>menu to react to ANY selection, not just a different one.
>
Well, to me "Home" doesn't take you to a set page, it just refreshes the current browse mode. If the "Home" link were to always go to a specific page (eg. "Browse Artists", being the first item in the browse list) then it would make more sense.

I don't like the cheesy IE6 "Go" button either! It doesn't have to look like that - it could simply be that the "Home" link should be moved beside the browse pull-down.


BTW, the "--- Browse Music ---" grouping items cause a javascript error if they are selected - "Suffix is undefined" line 160.

>> 5. The Play button could be moved closer to the left-hand side, to align with
>> the Repeat option beneath it. (With a thin window, I find the trebble
>> indicator doesn't fit in the window - moving the buttons over slightly to the
>> left would probably make things fit nicer).
>
>Oddly, these two items were already sharing the same padding settings. On a
>thin window, they are automatically squashed as far as that will allow. I have
>tried to compress the controls as much as possible. It is about all I can do
>without getting ugly.
>
It looks like all the buttons and repeat/shuffle/power are centred within the frame. Perhaps if the play/pause/fwd/rwd button group were left-aligned in a table cell to force them to the left of the frame, and the Volume/Bass/Trebble were right-aligned in a cell, things might fit nicer? It's not a big deal though.


BTW, if I browse to an album that has a cover.jpg file associated with it, it displays at the actual file dimension size. I just stumbled across one album that has artwork size of 2574 x 2250 pixels! Is it possible to constrain the maximum size to eg. 300x300 (or maybe 30% of the width of the frame)?

Phil

kdf
2005-09-15, 11:47
Quoting Philip Meyer <slim (AT) hergest (DOT) demon.co.uk>:

>
> BTW, if I browse to an album that has a cover.jpg file associated with it, it
> displays at the actual file dimension size. I just stumbled across one album
> that has artwork size of 2574 x 2250 pixels! Is it possible to constrain the
> maximum size to eg. 300x300 (or maybe 30% of the width of the frame)?

sadly no. if you constrain, then smaller images get scalled up, and I got
enough abuse over that one
-k

kdf
2005-09-15, 11:53
Quoting Philip Meyer <slim (AT) hergest (DOT) demon.co.uk>:


> BTW, the "--- Browse Music ---" grouping items cause a javascript error if
> they are selected - "Suffix is undefined" line 160.

will be fixed tonight.


> It looks like all the buttons and repeat/shuffle/power are centred within the
> frame. Perhaps if the play/pause/fwd/rwd button group were left-aligned in a
> table cell to force them to the left of the frame, and the
> Volume/Bass/Trebble were right-aligned in a cell, things might fit nicer?
> It's not a big deal though.

They are centered for the sake of large windows (like mine). It is designed to
shrink automatically for the best possible fit. I've tried some right/left
aligning for today, and frankly it looks like total garbage once you get a
window large enough to have extra room. I'll have to rethink this.

-k

Philip Meyer
2005-09-15, 15:07
Hi kdf <slim-mail (AT) deane-freeman (DOT) com>,

>sadly no. if you constrain, then smaller images get scalled up, and I got
>enough abuse over that one
>
Is it not possible to stick the image on the page unconstrained, and then examine the size of it (or the width/height of a div/span tag) and dynamically change the size attributes so big pictures get scaled down?

Artwork for the currently playing track - is that scaled to a fixed size?

Phil

Philip Meyer
2005-09-15, 15:09
>They are centered for the sake of large windows (like mine). It is designed to
>shrink automatically for the best possible fit. I've tried some right/left
>aligning for today, and frankly it looks like total garbage once you get a
>window large enough to have extra room. I'll have to rethink this.
>
Okay, no problem. It looks good most of the time. Just sometimes my window opens a little too small and the trebble bar is half off the edge of the window. But I simply stretch it wider. It's no hardship.

Phil

kdf
2005-09-15, 15:18
Quoting Philip Meyer <slim (AT) hergest (DOT) demon.co.uk>:

> Hi kdf <slim-mail (AT) deane-freeman (DOT) com>,
>
> >sadly no. if you constrain, then smaller images get scalled up, and I got
> >enough abuse over that one
> >
> Is it not possible to stick the image on the page unconstrained, and then
> examine the size of it (or the width/height of a div/span tag) and
> dynamically change the size attributes so big pictures get scaled down?

none that I know of. if you have a method, feel free ot let me know.

> Artwork for the currently playing track - is that scaled to a fixed size?

yes. in some skins, its the thumb image (which may be the same file, or may be
a smaller file). Either way, its set to a given size.

-k

kdf
2005-09-15, 15:21
Quoting Philip Meyer <slim (AT) hergest (DOT) demon.co.uk>:

> >They are centered for the sake of large windows (like mine). It is designed
> to
> >shrink automatically for the best possible fit. I've tried some right/left
> >aligning for today, and frankly it looks like total garbage once you get a
> >window large enough to have extra room. I'll have to rethink this.
> >
> Okay, no problem. It looks good most of the time. Just sometimes my window
> opens a little too small and the trebble bar is half off the edge of the
> window. But I simply stretch it wider. It's no hardship.

I'm trying for a fit with 800x600. One way would be to get rid of the word
"volume", and just use "V". This is only a problem for non-english speakers
where the localised string doesn't start with V. It also leaves a lot of empty
space at 1280x1024. I think what I have for the upcoming build will be good
compromise.

After all, if you are using SB2, the treble controls are actually useless anyway
:)

-kdf

Philip Meyer
2005-09-16, 00:57
>I'm trying for a fit with 800x600. One way would be to get rid of the word
>"volume", and just use "V".
>
Could the label be moved above the small volume level bars?

>After all, if you are using SB2, the treble controls are actually useless anyway
>
I've never used them :)

Phil

Philip Meyer
2005-09-16, 00:59
>none that I know of. if you have a method, feel free ot let me know.
>
I've done something similar before - I'll try to find some example code from work today. I've only tried it in IE though - not sure if it is standard stuff that would work in any browser.

Phil

Philip Meyer
2005-09-16, 01:08
Some other things I noticed last night:

1. The frames aren't quite in the right place. Some extra space is needed between the Browse pull-down and search options, and the browse frame. The vertical position of the browse frame should match that of the currently playing frame to the right - ie. so the scrollbar in the browse frame aligns with the start of the grey background where "No stopped on" is (roughly about 7 pixels too high at the moment).

2. I currently have an empty currently playing list, but I have a scrollbar displayed, no matter how much I stretch the window.

Phil

Philip Meyer
2005-09-16, 11:28
>>none that I know of. if you have a method, feel free ot let me know.
>>
>I've done something similar before - I'll try to find some example code from work today. I've only tried it in IE though - not sure if it is standard stuff that would work in any browser.
>
I thought about this some more, and knocked up a quick little test. After loading an image, examine the image width and if it's over some max size, scale the image down:

<html>
<head>
<script language="Javascript">
function resize(src)
{
if (src.width > 200)
{
src.width = 200;
}
}
</script>
</head>
<body >
The following image is small...<BR>
<img src="http://www.slimdevices.com/images/platinum200.gif""><BR>
....and therefore onLoad event will not scale it.<BR>
<img src="http://www.slimdevices.com/images/platinum200.gif" onLoad="resize(this)"><BR>
<BR>
<HR>
The following image is larger...<BR>
<img src="http://www.slimdevices.com/images/hero_image_03.gif"><BR>
....and therefore onLoad event will scale it.<BR>
<img src="http://www.slimdevices.com/images/hero_image_03.gif" onLoad="resize(this)"><BR>
</body>
</html>

Phil

Philip Meyer
2005-09-16, 12:02
>I thought about this some more, and knocked up a quick little test. After loading an image, examine the image width and if it's over some max size, scale the image down:
I forgot to add that we need to decide what size to constrain to. I found that changing the width in pixels changes the height to keep the same aspect ratio. It's probably possible to find the width in pixels of the frame, and change the size of the image to be 50% of that, rather than using a maximum fixed width in pixels.

Phil

kdf
2005-09-16, 12:14
Quoting Philip Meyer <slim (AT) hergest (DOT) demon.co.uk>:

> >I thought about this some more, and knocked up a quick little test. After
> loading an image, examine the image width and if it's over some max size,
> scale the image down:
> I forgot to add that we need to decide what size to constrain to. I found
> that changing the width in pixels changes the height to keep the same aspect
> ratio. It's probably possible to find the width in pixels of the frame, and
> change the size of the image to be 50% of that, rather than using a maximum
> fixed width in pixels.

That's the trick. I know you can read the params for document.body, but that
only works for IE. I was trying to use a similar trick for setting the current
playlist start position, since it varies based on the height of the
status_header section (cover art vs no cover art). My other option is to lock
the status_header height by using the "no cover" image, but then that takes
away the choice of having no cover art and gaining those extra playlist lines.

I'll use the fixed resize for now. 300 was the old contraint, so I'll just use
that for max size.


Thanks!

-kdf

Philip Meyer
2005-09-16, 12:58
>I'll use the fixed resize for now. 300 was the old contraint, so I'll just use
>that for max size.
>
I was thinking that it must be possible to examine the rows and cols properties in a frame/frameset.

Alternatively, I'm sure it's possible to put a <DIV> around a table cell that covers 100% of the width of the page, then examine the width of the div. I'm knocking up a little test page...

>Thanks!
>
Not at all - thankyou for applying the updates!

Phil

kdf
2005-09-16, 13:17
Quoting Philip Meyer <slim (AT) hergest (DOT) demon.co.uk>:

> >I'll use the fixed resize for now. 300 was the old contraint, so I'll just
> use
> >that for max size.
> >
> I was thinking that it must be possible to examine the rows and cols
> properties in a frame/frameset.

That seems to only readback a value if you have specifically set it.

> Alternatively, I'm sure it's possible to put a <DIV> around a table cell that
> covers 100% of the width of the page, then examine the width of the div. I'm
> knocking up a little test page...

would be nice to know. frankly, I'm getting a bit put off by all this
incompatible crap on various websites I try to find. I can't seem to even FIND
a div by id.

-k

Philip Meyer
2005-09-17, 00:47
Hi kdf <slim-mail (AT) deane-freeman (DOT) com>,

>> I was thinking that it must be possible to examine the rows and cols
>> properties in a frame/frameset.
>
>That seems to only readback a value if you have specifically set it.
>
Found a simple solution:
var maxwidth = document.body.clientWidth;

I have tested this in IE6, and it works in a window or a frame. The width is returned in pixels. This is the width of the frame, not the writeable area in the document (so it would include space used by scrollbars), so if you use it, probably best to deduct a bit from it to make artwork fit nicely.

>I can't seem to even FIND a div by id.
>
I use:
<DIV id="divid"></DIV>
var elem = document.getElementById("divid");

Phil

kdf
2005-09-17, 00:51
On 17-Sep-05, at 12:47 AM, Philip Meyer wrote:

> Hi kdf <slim-mail (AT) deane-freeman (DOT) com>,
>
>>> I was thinking that it must be possible to examine the rows and cols
>>> properties in a frame/frameset.
>>
>> That seems to only readback a value if you have specifically set it.
>>
> Found a simple solution:
> var maxwidth = document.body.clientWidth;
>
> I have tested this in IE6, and it works in a window or a frame. The
> width is returned in pixels. This is the width of the frame, not the
> writeable area in the document (so it would include space used by
> scrollbars), so if you use it, probably best to deduct a bit from it
> to make artwork fit nicely.

sadly, only valid for IE from what I've read.


>
>> I can't seem to even FIND a div by id.
>>
> I use:
> <DIV id="divid"></DIV>
> var elem = document.getElementById("divid");
>
yup, that's what I was doing too, but the part I was misisng was that
it MUST be called after the body tag is rendered. i've checked in a
big patch to the skin tonight, so see what you think. the right side
shoudl auto adjust using a div insead of the old frame system. bound
to be a few quirks I didn't catch ahead of time.

-k

Philip Meyer
2005-09-17, 01:42
>> Found a simple solution:
>> var maxwidth = document.body.clientWidth;
>>
>> I have tested this in IE6, and it works in a window or a frame. The
>> width is returned in pixels. This is the width of the frame, not the
>> writeable area in the document (so it would include space used by
>> scrollbars), so if you use it, probably best to deduct a bit from it
>> to make artwork fit nicely.
>
>sadly, only valid for IE from what I've read.
>
Oh. It works in some other browsers (I think Mozilla copes, and it works in PsPad editors' preview mode), but I haven't tried with FireFox or Netscape. I think you can use innerWidth instead for older browsers.

Following a quick google search, I came across the following: http://forums.devshed.com/archive/t-230449/clientWidth-in-mozillafirefox
It says that clientWidth works in IE Win, Opera, Firefox, Mozilla, Mozilla Red Hat, Safari and IE Mac 5.2 OSX and IE Mac 5.1 OX9, (maybe fails with really old netscape browsers).

It should be possible to use clientWidth, but if the browser doesn't support the property (returns undefined), use innerWidth or outerWidth, or perhaps otherwise default to 300 px?

I saw an example that does:
daWidth = (!document.all) ? window.innerWidth : document.body.clientWidth;

>yup, that's what I was doing too, but the part I was misisng was that
>it MUST be called after the body tag is rendered.

>i've checked in a big patch to the skin tonight, so see what you think.
>
Will this be in "todays" nightly release? It's morning here in the UK :)

Phil

Philip Meyer
2005-09-20, 15:33
>2. I currently have an empty currently playing list, but I have a scrollbar displayed, no matter how much I stretch the window.
>
I'm still seeing this in the latest nightly.

Also, I notice that the larger heading style in the server settings pages causes the text to appear quite cramped. Some of the buttons overlap with the text too.

Phil

Philip Meyer
2005-09-20, 15:38
Also, when I refresh the whole display, I get an annoying flick of colour from the Tan style (appears to only be in the frames on the right-hand side).

Phil

kdf
2005-09-20, 16:04
Quoting Philip Meyer <slim (AT) hergest (DOT) demon.co.uk>:

> >2. I currently have an empty currently playing list, but I have a scrollbar
> displayed, no matter how much I stretch the window.
> >
> I'm still seeing this in the latest nightly.

and I still cannot reproduce.

> Also, I notice that the larger heading style in the server settings pages
> causes the text to appear quite cramped. Some of the buttons overlap with
> the text too.

nor this. What style are you using? A screenshot would really be helpful.

-k

kdf
2005-09-20, 16:04
Quoting Philip Meyer <slim (AT) hergest (DOT) demon.co.uk>:

> Also, when I refresh the whole display, I get an annoying flick of colour
> from the Tan style (appears to only be in the frames on the right-hand side).

I've seen this, and I have NO clue where the heck IE is getting that. I even
deleted the reference to the alternate stylesheet and it STILL insisted on
showing it, but only sometimes. Frankly, I've given up. IE just gets too
painful sometimes.
-k

Patrick Dixon
2005-09-21, 01:00
Quoting Philip Meyer <slim (AT) hergest (DOT) demon.co.uk>:

> Also, when I refresh the whole display, I get an annoying flick of colour
> from the Tan style (appears to only be in the frames on the right-hand side).

I've seen this, and I have NO clue where the heck IE is getting that. I even
deleted the reference to the alternate stylesheet and it STILL insisted on
showing it, but only sometimes. Frankly, I've given up. IE just gets too
painful sometimes.
-k
I'm seeing this on FireFox now, since yesterday when I updated to svn 4372. It seems to occur when the player window periodicaly updates too.

Philip Meyer
2005-09-21, 11:40
>> >2. I currently have an empty currently playing list, but I have a scrollbar
>> displayed, no matter how much I stretch the window.
>> >
>> I'm still seeing this in the latest nightly.
>
>and I still cannot reproduce.
>
The good news is the scrollbar problem appears to be fixed in 4388. One minor comment though - the currently playing track is highlighted with a red bar above and below it. However, the currently played track is scrolled to be the topmost visible thing in the frame, so the top red line isn't visible. It would be the icing on the cake if the top red line was scrolled to be at the top of the visible frame.

The bad news is I am now experiencing the scrollbar problem in the left frame. Maybe it's always been a problem too, as you only notice it when selecting a browse mode with not many items, eg. Random Mix.

The spacing around heading styles in the Server Settings is a lot better now - looks really tidy. One minor comment though - the spacing around buttons/drop down list controls is sometimes tight. The best example of this is on the first Server Settings page, between the Rescan Music drop-down and the Rescan button.

The spacing around heading styles in the Help pages is untidy - eg, in FAQs, there is no gap between the end of a FAQ answer, and the title for the next question, then there's a fairly big gap before the answer text to that question.

Other than that, it's looking *really* good now! Thanks!

Phil

kdf
2005-09-21, 12:24
Quoting Philip Meyer <slim (AT) hergest (DOT) demon.co.uk>:

> The good news is the scrollbar problem appears to be fixed in 4388. One
> minor comment though - the currently playing track is highlighted with a red
> bar above and below it. However, the currently played track is scrolled to
> be the topmost visible thing in the frame, so the top red line isn't visible.
> It would be the icing on the cake if the top red line was scrolled to be at
> the top of the visible frame.

I'm fairly sure this isn't possible, since the anchor is tied to the row. If
the server were modified to have 'currentsong' be a number, then there is the
option of linking to currentsong-1, but then that will ruin a lot of other
code.

>
> The bad news is I am now experiencing the scrollbar problem in the left
> frame. Maybe it's always been a problem too, as you only notice it when
> selecting a browse mode with not many items, eg. Random Mix.

IE sucks, plain and simple. I could fix it, but then it introduces other
problems, like leaving blank space where the scrollbar would be. I could fix
that, but then that would make every other browser that follows proper
standards render without a scrollbar.

If you have a patch, I'm willing to add it in, but I'm really losing any
interest in dealing with IE stupidities any more. I've lost too many evenings
on this 'little tweak' to the skin.

> The spacing around heading styles in the Server Settings is a lot better now
> - looks really tidy. One minor comment though - the spacing around
> buttons/drop down list controls is sometimes tight. The best example of this

spacings should be better by tomorrow.
-k

Philip Meyer
2005-09-21, 12:37
>IE sucks, plain and simple.
>
Tell me about it! I've thrown tantrums in my day job over strangeness with IE.

>If you have a patch, I'm willing to add it in, but I'm really losing any
>interest in dealing with IE stupidities any more. I've lost too many evenings
>on this 'little tweak' to the skin.
>
It's not a big deal really. It was more annoying in the currently playlist frame, as I frequently just play one or two songs. Don't worry about it.

Phil

MrC
2005-09-21, 15:11
KDF - thanks for all your work on the skins - they look much better!

I was doing a little debugging on the flashing problem, and noticed a number of problems with the html.

First, there are two TITLE tags being being output for the bottom right frame. The www spec allows exactly one. One appears to be coming from TT via EN/standardheader.html(the Welcome to Slimserver tag) and the other from playlist.html. Also, the Content-type meta tag is getting generated twice via the same mechanism.

There are a number of other HTML errors in various documents. Those that appear in the bottom right frame are and main frame doc are:

- index.html is defined as a standard html document type, which it should be defined as using the frameset dtd
- no document type defined for framed documents
- align=center should be align=middle for img tags
- missing end of "a" tag (ie. missing < / a > ) for song numbers (status_list.html)
- link and meta tags should not have ending backslash (self closing tag) for non-xhtml documents (currently, html transitional is being used and assumed)
- "disabled id" is not a valid tag in link tags used for the alternate stylesheets
- the nobr tag is non-standard

If you want updates, let me know.

kdf
2005-09-21, 15:34
Quoting MrC <MrC.1vqc6z (AT) no-mx (DOT) forums.slimdevices.com>:


> If you want updates, let me know.

diff -upB would be most welcome.
I can try and merge in with what I have, or you can run it against tomorrow's
build.
-k

MrC
2005-09-21, 15:47
I'd be happy to provide diffs now. I'll just need the baseline you are using. I'm on last nights build.

kdf
2005-09-21, 16:14
Quoting MrC <MrC.1vqdtb (AT) no-mx (DOT) forums.slimdevices.com>:

>
> I'd be happy to provide diffs now. I'll just need the baseline you are
> using. I'm on last nights build.

a diff against the nightly will do fine. I've done a lot of moving stuff around
since the nightly, and I've put in a few of the fixes listed in your previous
post already. The diff will help clarify the points I'm not grasping or can't
find.

Could you send it offlist to:
slim-mail(at)deane-freeman(dot)com

cheers,
kdf

MrC
2005-09-21, 16:35
Files sent.