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Deaf Cat
2005-09-10, 02:10
Hiya,

Just wondered if it was worth while having a go at making some Cat5 speaker cable.

Any thoughts.....

Triode
2005-09-10, 02:32
Depends on amp and speaker combination, but I'm running these:
http://www.tnt-audio.com/clinica/triple_t_e.html

Adrian
----- Original Message -----
From: "Deaf Cat" <Deaf.Cat.1v4yqz (AT) no-mx (DOT) forums.slimdevices.com>
To: <discuss (AT) lists (DOT) slimdevices.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2005 10:10 AM
Subject: [slim] Anyone tried making there own Cat5 Speaker Cable?


>
> Hiya,
>
> Just wondered if it was worth while having a go at making some Cat5
> speaker cable.
>
> Any thoughts.....
>
>
> --
> Deaf Cat
>

Tim Vruwink
2005-09-10, 10:22
Triode wrote:

> Depends on amp and speaker combination, but I'm running these:
> http://www.tnt-audio.com/clinica/triple_t_e.html
>
> Adrian
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Deaf Cat"
> <Deaf.Cat.1v4yqz (AT) no-mx (DOT) forums.slimdevices.com>
> To: <discuss (AT) lists (DOT) slimdevices.com>
> Sent: Saturday, September 10, 2005 10:10 AM
> Subject: [slim] Anyone tried making there own Cat5 Speaker Cable?
>
>
>>
>> Hiya,
>> Just wondered if it was worth while having a go at making some Cat5
>> speaker cable.
>>
>> Any thoughts.....
>>
>>
>> --
>> Deaf Cat
>>

Deaf Cat
2005-09-10, 14:50
[QUOTE=Triode]Depends on amp and speaker combination, but I'm running these:
http://www.tnt-audio.com/clinica/triple_t_e.html



How do they compair to other cables you have tried ?

Triode
2005-09-10, 15:24
Triode Wrote:
>> Depends on amp and speaker combination, but I'm running these:
>> http://www.tnt-audio.com/clinica/triple_t_e.html
>>
>> How do they compair to other cables you have tried ?

They work well with my low feedback valve (tube) amps and reasonably sensitive speakers. May be less attractive if you have a high
feedback transitor amp which is fussy about the capitance of the cable.

I've never really tried high end speaker cables as being a audio diyer, I find I can make a difference more cost effectively
changing a component or two...

There are good comments about them on various web sites - have a google and see...

Better still - try them and see - the only complexity is stripping the insulation - I would definately go for the heat and strip
approach (but don't use bare fingers)

An alternative on a similar theme: http://www.venhaus1.com/diycatfivecables.html

Deaf Cat
2005-09-11, 12:35
I did wonder about the capacitance, I will e-mail Arcam and Rega to get there opinions - fingers crossed all will be ok....??

If all goes well I think the TNT looks a little more simple to make so maybe give that a bash.

Do you think it would harm the amp if it just tried it? They do have over heat protection....hmmmm

It must be nice to have the know how to make/mod your own bits.
Oh cheers for the tip, I must say i have had rather hot plastic stick to me fingers before, and you don't seem to forget next time the situation occurs.

Cheers for the links.

pfarrell
2005-09-11, 12:48
On Sun, 2005-09-11 at 12:35 -0700, Deaf Cat wrote:
> I did wonder about the capacitance, I will e-mail Arcam and Rega to get
> there opinions - fingers crossed all will be ok....??

A few months back, one of the big audiophile magazines
did a speaker cable comparison. They also included
an outdoor extension cord bought at Home Depot.
It sounded as good and cost way under 1% of what
the audiophile cables cost. I think it
was something like $14 for 100 feet, instead of
the $1000 for three feet.

--
Pat
http://www.pfarrell.com/music/slimserver/slimsoftware.html

nano2nd
2005-09-11, 13:33
I believe you Pat. So much of the audiophile scene just looks (and sounds!) like snake oil to me. Or maybe I'm just too darn uncultured!

Chris

pfarrell
2005-09-11, 14:14
On Sun, 2005-09-11 at 13:33 -0700, nano2nd wrote:
> I believe you Pat. So much of the audiophile scene just looks (and
> sounds!) like snake oil to me. Or maybe I'm just too darn uncultured!

There does seem to be a lot of snake oil.
But a serious stereo can sound wonderful.

I can make small groups sound real on my system
driven by a SqueezeBox/g. It is fabulous.
Bluegrass, small jazz, chamber music, etc.
But I can't believe that a full orchestra is
in my living room. First, it is way too small
to believe, and I think the sound needs real room.

It is even possible that a $5000 amp sounds better than a $1500 amp,
or that $1000 speaker cables sound better than $14 speaker cables.
Maybe not in proportion to the price difference, but I can believe
different and maybe better.

Of course, a BMW 7 series doesn't get you to and back from
the grocery store compared to a Kia. So sometimes
illogical decisions can be real



--
Pat
http://www.pfarrell.com/music/slimserver/slimsoftware.html

Simon Still
2005-09-12, 00:13
On 9/11/05, Pat Farrell <pfarrell (AT) pfarrell (DOT) com> wrote:
>
> There does seem to be a lot of snake oil.
> But a serious stereo can sound wonderful.


Indeed, but there are some diminishing returns on investment. I've read
there is little difference in components between mid-range and top end stuff
and that as you get 'higher' the proportion of the purchase price that pays
for the casework increases exponentially. This seems about right - high
quality, low volume metalwork is expensive but there are only so many places
to buy components.

Cables and interconnects are pure snake oil. It is possible to buy real crap
('pound shop' scart leads in the UK tend to suffer all sorts of cross talk)
but once you get to after market power leads you're really in the realms of
fantasy.

James Mitchelmore
2005-09-12, 01:28
-----Original Message-----
From: discuss-bounces (AT) lists (DOT) slimdevices.com
[mailto:discuss-bounces (AT) lists (DOT) slimdevices.com] On Behalf Of Simon Still
Sent: 12 September 2005 08:14
To: Slim Devices Discussion
Subject: Re: [slim] Re: Anyone tried making there own Cat5 Speaker
Cable?


On 9/11/05, Pat Farrell <HYPERLINK
"mailto:pfarrell (AT) pfarrell (DOT) com"pfarrell (AT) pfarrell (DOT) com> wrote:
There does seem to be a lot of snake oil.
But a serious stereo can sound wonderful.

Indeed, but there are some diminishing returns on investment. I've
read there is little difference in components between mid-range and top
end stuff and that as you get 'higher' the proportion of the purchase
price that pays for the casework increases exponentially. This seems
about right - high quality, low volume metalwork is expensive but there
are only so many places to buy components.

Cables and interconnects are pure snake oil. It is possible to buy real
crap ('pound shop' scart leads in the UK tend to suffer all sorts of
cross talk) but once you get to after market power leads you're really
in the realms of fantasy.


On the subject of poncy cabling, beat this for the bullsh*t of the year
award:

http://www.soundstringcable.com/

An excerpt:


Picture a heavily traveled two lane local highway with a variety of
passenger vehicles and trucks traveling under ideal weather conditions
at rush hour. Every driver is anxious to get to their destination as
quickly as possible, but the volume of traffic demands that all vehicles
must slow down. Travel at normal highway speeds becomes impossible.
Then, the roadway widens into six lanes with a higher speed limit. All
vehicles can now travel more independently, in the lane of their choice,
and arrive at their final destination in a fraction of the time it would
have taken on the clogged two lane road. This is how our patented
Tricormaxial™ cable design works for your audio system. All signals and
frequencies automatically and independently seek the path of least
resistance. There is no discontinuity. Frequencies arrive at specific
times perfectly synchronized with the recording that was made. There is
no time smear, no filtration, no colorization. Everything is neutral.
You hear a mirror image of the recording. The results are universal -
any system wired with our cables, can and will achieve these results.”

What a load of rubbish.

;-)

James
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dean
2005-09-12, 07:40
On Sep 12, 2005, at 1:28 AM, James Mitchelmore wrote:
> Picture a heavily traveled two lane local highway with a variety of
> passenger vehicles and trucks traveling under ideal weather
> conditions at rush hour. Every driver is anxious to get to their
> destination as quickly as possible, but the volume of traffic
> demands that all vehicles must slow down. Travel at normal highway
> speeds becomes impossible. Then, the roadway widens into six lanes
> with a higher speed limit. All vehicles can now travel more
> independently, in the lane of their choice, and arrive at their
> final destination in a fraction of the time it would have taken on
> the clogged two lane road. This is how our patented Tricormaxial™
> cable design works for your audio system. All signals and
> frequencies automatically and independently seek the path of least
> resistance.
"186000 miles per second: It's not just a good idea, it's the law!"

Deaf Cat
2005-09-12, 14:34
So.... do yous others reccon the Cat5 cable may set the sound stage like an electric blue superdreamracer on a NasCar Circuit??

Simon
2005-09-13, 01:15
I run two setups, one has Cat5e Twisted Twins, I found it a big step up in clarity and soundstaging from the old K20 I used before; so for my other system, I made up solid core Cat6 twisted twins with audionote silver plated banana plugs. These cables are excellent and noticably better than the co-axial cable they replaced.

I agree that there is a point where there are diminishing returns for all audio equipment, but the Cat 6 cables only cost me £50 for the 5m pair.

Regards
Simon

Robin Bowes
2005-09-13, 01:51
Simon wrote:
> I run two setups, one has Cat5e Twisted Twins, I found it a big step up
> in clarity and soundstaging from the old K20 I used before; so for my
> other system, I made up solid core Cat6 twisted twins with audionote
> silver plated banana plugs. These cables are excellent and noticably
> better than the co-axial cable they replaced.
>
> I agree that there is a point where there are diminishing returns for
> all audio equipment, but the Cat 6 cables only cost me £50 for the 5m
> pair.

I've not tried any of this (and probably wouldn't) but here are some
links to CAT5 speaker cable recipes:

http://www.geocities.com/jonrisch/s2.htm
http://www.venhaus1.com/diycatfivecables.html

R.

--
http://robinbowes.com

If a man speaks in a forest,
and his wife's not there,
is he still wrong?

Michael Amster
2005-09-13, 16:39
Deaf Cat wrote:

>So.... do yous others reccon the Cat5 cable may set the sound stage like
>an electric blue superdreamracer on a NasCar Circuit??
>
>
>
>
I have built a number of cables. As long as you don't do something
spectacular like shorting the two terminals together while the Amp is
on, you should be fine. I always continuity test my cables to make sure
a solder glob or frayed wire does not kill a nice amp. Beyond that, I
can tell you that my personal preference in limited testing is for solid
core copper wire for speaker and interconnect. I do a lot of DIY stuff
two and have built the following recipies for cables and speaker wire:

http://www.tnt-audio.com/clinica/ubyte2e.html
These are similar to the Jon Risch recipe cross connect Beldin cables.
It is a good low capacitance design.

http://www.venhaus1.com/diysilverinterconnects.html
I changed this to use some high quality litz wire I had onhand. I did
use the bullet plugs for what that is worth.

The outcome of this is "refinement" of the sound. To me things are a
little sharper and better defined. It is not a night and day
revelation, but a nice improvement. I would not buy megabuck cable, but
a reasonable DIY project or some better used cables should be worth it
on a good base system. The cost of the cat5 cable is so low that the
risk is low. At worst, you go back to zip cord - if you like them, it
is like personalizing a car - adding your signature to your system.
Just start small and go from there.

-MA

Michael Amster
2005-09-13, 17:33
Simon wrote:

>I run two setups, one has Cat5e Twisted Twins, I found it a big step up
>in clarity and soundstaging from the old K20 I used before; so for my
>other system, I made up solid core Cat6 twisted twins with audionote
>silver plated banana plugs. These cables are excellent and noticably
>better than the co-axial cable they replaced.
>
>I agree that there is a point where there are diminishing returns for
>all audio equipment, but the Cat 6 cables only cost me £50 for the 5m
>pair.
>
>Regards
>Simon
>
>
>
>
Simon - can you point me to the twisted twins recipe? I have some coax
cables and would be interested in testing this out against my current
DIY reference UByte-2s.

Simon
2005-09-14, 00:05
Hi Michael,

you can find them here http://www.tnt-audio.com/clinica/triple_t_e.html

I too use the Van H design of interconnects, they are night and day compared to the cables that come free with most components.

Regards
Simon