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CavesOfTQLT
2005-09-06, 16:34
Okay, just a post to say I'm going to give the SlimServer system one more day before calling it quits and selling the SB2. Nothing should be this difficult to set up.

I've binned Windows XP, installed Linux, finally got it loaded with SlimServer, scanned the library, everything appears okay, SB2 connects to the wireless network, sees SlimServer, but still it's plagued with break-ups in playing music/delays in browsing the menus with the remote.

According to the SB2 the wireless strength is floating around the 80% mark so I can't see it being a wireless issue. Anyway tomorrow I'm going to connect the SB2 via a wired cable straight to the router to see if it gets better, before deciding what to do. Since purchasing approx. three/four weeks ago I've had about an hour's use out of it.

Really annoyed.

Robin Bowes
2005-09-06, 16:40
CavesOfTQLT said the following on 07/09/2005 00:34:
> Okay, just a post to say I'm going to give the SlimServer system one
> more day before calling it quits and selling the SB2. Nothing should be
> this difficult to set up.
>
> I've binned Windows XP, installed Linux, finally got it loaded with
> SlimServer, scanned the library, everything appears okay, SB2 connects
> to the wireless network, sees SlimServer, but still it's plagued with
> break-ups in playing music/delays in browsing the menus with the
> remote.
>
> According to the SB2 the wireless strength is floating around the 80%
> mark so I can't see it being a wireless issue. Anyway tomorrow I'm
> going to connect the SB2 via a wired cable straight to the router to
> see if it gets better, before deciding what to do. Since purchasing
> approx. three/four weeks ago I've had about an hour's use out of it.
>
> Really annoyed.

Robbie,

Any chance of letting me ssh into your linux box to see what's going on?

R.

--
http://robinbowes.com

If a man speaks in a forest,
and his wife's not there,
is he still wrong?

audiofi
2005-09-06, 16:45
How big is the music library? Any playlists? What hardware and version of slimserver?

I know it is annoying if things don't work, especially after a lot of effort, but it is worth it (I had real problems after putting on the AlienBBC plugin, but after upgrading slimserver and a few hours of messing with settings its all working...perfectly)

Andrew

stuorguk
2005-09-06, 16:52
Have you tried using SqueezeNetwork on your SB2? If thats unrelibale too (and im assuming you have a good broadband connection), then it points the finger more towards a network/SB problem. If it's ok, then it's more likly your servers got a problem.

S.

CavesOfTQLT
2005-09-06, 17:10
Q:'How big is the music library?'

A: Well after losing quite a lot with the changing over of the HD between Windows and Linux, the size is now [fires up Firefox to have a look] according to the web interface says 'Your music library contains 366 albums with 7335 songs by 181 artists.'

No playlists set-up. A bit pointless as it won't play music properly to make them worthwhile.

Hardware: Intel P4PE mainboard, Intel P4 2.66Ghz, 512KRam, Seagate 7200/120Gb 8Mb Buffer with Linux Mandrive LE 10.2, Seagate 7200/200Gb 8Mb Buffer with the above music in MP3, OGG and FLAC (plus linux files from wherever they decided to come from).

And that machine is connected by ethernet cable to the wireless router which is a Belkin Pre-N MIMO. The SB2 is being used via wireless. Security is WEP128. SB2 sees the network and connects before the countdown reaches 14. It sees the SlimServer and has the correct IP assigned to it. Hit connect and it connects showing the Squeezebox Home.

Use the remote and the menus are very unresponsive. Select a tune to play and it shows 'Now Playing' plus whatever's been selected but the music is terrible with breakups. Sometimes the display shows 'Lost contact with SlimServer', yet according to the SB2 settings page the wireless strength is never below 75%.

I'm now really annoyed with the whole thing.

Guess it's 'do everything you can to piss Robbie off' time at the moment, because I purchased a pump to make the shower into a power shower. Piped it all up and it wouldn't work. Thinking it was because the cold storage tank in the loft wasn't high enough to trigger the switches in the pump, I raised it three feet to just under the roof. And guess what; it still wouldn't work. Turns out the brand new pump was faulty.

Robin if you want to ssh into the box go ahead. PM me with what details you need

CavesOfTQLT
2005-09-06, 17:17
Have you tried using SqueezeNetwork on your SB2? If thats unrelibale too (and im assuming you have a good broadband connection), then it points the finger more towards a network/SB problem. If it's ok, then it's more likly your servers got a problem.

S.
The squeezenetwork appears to be okay. I'd been listening to that because I couldn't listen to my music library due to the above issues. Thinking it was Windows XP causing the problem I decided to go the Linux way, but the issue is still there.

I'm wondering whether it's a faulty SB2 after having the above problem with the brand new pump.


I'm off to bed - all this grief is... well I'm sure you know how I'm feeling.

Forgot to add; when using Windows XP these problems seemed to stop SlimServer every now and then, requiring it to be restarted. On Linux the server seems to keep running (or at least I haven't done a 'status' to find it'd stopped)...

Robin Bowes
2005-09-06, 17:25
CavesOfTQLT said the following on 07/09/2005 01:10:

> Robin if you want to ssh into the box go ahead. PM me with what details
> you need

You have PM.

R.

--
http://robinbowes.com

If a man speaks in a forest,
and his wife's not there,
is he still wrong?

danco
2005-09-06, 23:29
On 6/9/05 at 16:34 -0700, CavesOfTQLT wrote
>Okay, just a post to say I'm going to give the SlimServer system one
>more day before calling it quits and selling the SB2. Since purchasing
>approx. three/four weeks ago I've had about an hour's use out of it.

Don't forget that if you got it direct from Slimdevices (and maybe
also from some distributors) there is a thirty day return policy. You
may be in that time period.

Sorru to hear you are having so much trouble. The problem with a
product like the SB is that it depends so much on other items of
one's equipment that it's not possible to give simple instructions or
diagnostics that are sure to work.

--
Daniel Cohen

Fifer
2005-09-07, 00:50
I can't offer any help (hopefully Robin can though) but I'd like to commend CavesOfTQLT on his approach in this thread. I can understand his frustration (even more so given the pump problem), but his post sticks pretty much to the facts and asks for help without allowing his frustration to sour things. I'm sure the problem will be solved and I hope that soon he'll be enjoying the SB2 as much as most of us here.

CavesOfTQLT
2005-09-07, 01:17
Forgot to say that SoftSqueeze on localhost works like a charm, menus spot on, playing music okay, so I'm sure it's not SlimServer but a network issue, one that's proving frustrating tracking down.

Right, I'm off to check some things out...

CavesOfTQLT
2005-09-07, 01:37
Okay an update.

Brought the SB2 to the router and connected it directly to it, did a factory reset, told it to connect via ethernet, and it's spot on. Got music playing on it via my hi-fi without problem, menus really responsive, and all this whilst SoftSqueeze is playing different music on the server. So that does imply a problem with the wireless connection; has anyone got a Belkin Pre-N wireless router working with their Squeezebox, and if so what settings on the router have you selected? It has been uploaded with the latest firmware; did that soon after purchase.

I hope I can get this problem fixed as it'd be a pain in terms of installation, plus loss of money on buying a SB2 wireless in the first place, if I have to run a new ethernet cable to where the SB2 is going to go...

MrC
2005-09-07, 02:02
I've been using my Pre-N with SB2 for months now, without trouble. It worked with both the original Pre-N firmware, and the most recent. I use WPA-PSK (personal). Versions 15-latest of the SB2 firmware.

How close together are your belkin and SB2? What obstacles? Don't pay much attention to signal strength - that's just a rough average, and without an accurate signal meter, won't be a terribly good diagnostic.

Try moving the SB2 about 5-10 feet, line of sight from the belkin - see how that affects your music. Make sure the belkin is not being interferred with by 2.4ghz coordless phones (like your neighbor's), or too near other wireless/cordless gear. I'm grasping a little here, based on your described dropouts and stuttering problem. This does sound like packet loss. High signal strength can still have high packet loss. One of the problems with these consumer-grade devices is they have just terrible diagnostics. My Cisco Aironet on the other hand is awesome with every radio stat and diagnostic you'd desire. Troubleshooting this stuff is cake with such business-class devices.

Patrick Dixon
2005-09-07, 03:13
It does sound like a wireless issue - I'm betting that going wired will prove it (EDIT: just seen your post above and it does). I wonder if you have other wireless networks on the same channel in your vicinity?

Have you tried changing wireless channels?

CavesOfTQLT
2005-09-07, 04:49
It does sound like a wireless issue - I'm betting that going wired will prove it (EDIT: just seen your post above and it does). I wonder if you have other wireless networks on the same channel in your vicinity?

Have you tried changing wireless channels?
Yep, there is, according to the SB2, another network in close proximity, and it's a Linksys. Who's it is I haven't a clue but two things I've noted. On XP the Belkin utility for the wireless card showed that this network had 100% signal strength, whilst my own network had 97%! Logging in to the Belkin router and looking at its firewall log shows it's doing a DOS block on average every 3 seconds on the same IP number. Now I wonder whether this IP (which is a 10.*.*.* variety) and the Linksys network are one and the same?

MrC: When I tried using WPK it seemed to make things worse so I dropped it back to WEP128. There is an entry in the Belkin router that is called 'protected' mode, when this was off I had the break-ups and stuttering. When I turned it on everything went okay for about an hour until I turned the SB2 off. Next day the troubles I'm having now occurred, and the placements of the SB2 and router hadn't changed. At that point I thought maybe the cordless telephone was to blame so I unplugged it but the problem remained. The distance between the SB2 and the router is approx. 20ft with 1 (double standard UK house brick) wall in between.

I'll try your suggestion of moving the SB2 to approx 5/10feet of the router and with direct line of sight and see what happens, but it'll have to wait for a while because I'm busy on other things at the moment.

Pat: Just seen your channels suggestion. The router is set on 'auto' for channel select, but I did at one point try ch13. It seemed to be the same.

MrC
2005-09-07, 10:39
Once you've moved the AP / SB2 closer (for testing), please post your results.
The DoS attack you are seeing with the 10/8 network is in almost definitely from your neighbor's Linksys, since that private IP is not routable (and unlikely to be spoofed).

Using WPA could have caused additional disturbance in your already troublesome network. Too many dropped or rejected packets would cause trouble.

Nonetheless, change to WPA-PSK as soon as possible. Your WEP is trivial to attack and enter (and people are doing it routinely!). Until you have the chance to resolve these problems, at least configure and use mac address filtering to only allow *your* systems to connect and pass packets. Your AP will reject all others, giving you much more security.

Protected mode in the belkin will help a bit, at the expense of performance.

Best if you and your neighbor can agree to separate your APs a bit, reduce the radio signal, select unique channels, etc. to avoid interference. The trouble with these devices is the crowded 2.4ghz frequence, and close proximity to other (competing) AP and radio devices can wreak havoc on your net and connections.

RE: "Just seen" - gag! ;-)

CavesOfTQLT
2005-09-07, 15:48
Update:

Via the ethernet cable the SB2 is functioning just as I'd expect it to. But when it comes to wireless there seems to be a major problem. The units have direct line of sight, and at the same altitude, aerials parallel to each other, but every now and then the message 'lost contact with slimserver' appears. Guess the distance between router and SB2 when this is going on... less than 2 feet! This to me implies either the router or the SB2's wireless section is at fault. When I connected my other PC to the router wirelessly via a Belkin Pre-N notebook card I didn't seem to have any issues, and the distance between router and PC was about 25feet, again with a brick wall/ceiling between the two. I don't know how I'm going to check whether it's the SB2 without purchasing another one as a test unit - does the SB2 wireless use a normal 11g notebook wireless card inside the case that I could change to test this?

Or does anyone have any ideas on what to do now?

MrC
2005-09-07, 15:58
Since you've confirmed your PC and belkin connect and work fine, you could install slimserver on your PC and create an ad-hoc network between SB2 and the wireless PC. SB2 would be the only new variable one you were sure slimserver worked on the PC.

CavesOfTQLT
2005-09-07, 16:14
MrC, I can't do the PC wireless to SB2 ad-hoc network as I've changed over to Linux and have yet to find a driver to operate the Belkin Pre-N notebook card!

As another test I've moved the SB2 to approx. 4 feet away from the router, again at the same altitude, aerials parallel, nothing in the way etc., SB2 'current settings' mode even indicates a 98-100% signal strength, and what do yer know, the break-up/stuttering is back.

I'm at a loss as to what to do now... Scan computers where I purchased the unit here in the UK do a check on returns and it does work, sort of, so they may say words to that effect. Yet there is definately an issue with the wireless section, and unless I can get another wireless SB2 to check things out, it's difficult to say whether it's a faulty router, or the SB2. As I'm going to have to pay out for a bog standard 11g notebook card in order to get my other PC connected to the wireless network, I was wondering whether the SB2 has a 11g notebook card inside that maybe I could change to see if this cures the problem?

Has anyone at Slim Devices got a suggestion?

JJZolx
2005-09-07, 16:15
does the SB2 wireless use a normal 11g notebook wireless card inside the case that I could change to test this?

Or does anyone have any ideas on what to do now?
Someone from Slim Devices needs to jump in here. Something ain't right. At the very least I'd open up the SB2 and check for loose connections, particularly with the antennas and the wireless module.

Here's what you'd be dealing with internally: http://www.slimdevices.com/photos/inside_squeezebox2/

superbad
2005-09-07, 16:23
You may have already answered this, but do you have a PC or laptop you could connect to the server wirelessly and run Softsqueeze on? That would test the ability of the wireless network itself to handle streaming music- if it works, then the problem would seem to be with the SB2.

Googling the part number printed on the circuit board, I think this is the SB2 network card. Buying one just to test seems a bit extreme to me.

http://metrix.net/metrix/products/radios/minipci/NL-5354MP_ARIES2.html

pfarrell
2005-09-07, 16:30
On Wed, 2005-09-07 at 16:14 -0700, CavesOfTQLT wrote:
> I'm at a loss as to what to do now...

Contact support (AT) slimdevices (DOT) com

They are good folks, they will solve the problem, but I assume you are
not in the US, so it may be different. But I am confident
that they can solve your problem

--
Pat
http://www.pfarrell.com/music/slimserver/slimsoftware.html

CavesOfTQLT
2005-09-07, 16:44
You may have already answered this, but do you have a PC or laptop you could connect to the server wirelessly and run Softsqueeze on? That would test the ability of the wireless network itself to handle streaming music- if it works, then the problem would seem to be with the SB2.

Nope, since changing over to Linux I've now not (driver issue) got another PC that I can connect to SlimServer wirelessly, I'll now have to purchase a standard 11g card to get that PC connected to the wireless network.

Pat, it's looking like I will have to contact support, though I don't like doing this if it's the router to blame. As you know I'm just a tad annoyed that after 4/5 weeks since getting my SB2 I've had nothing but grief with it.

pfarrell
2005-09-07, 17:31
On Wed, 2005-09-07 at 16:44 -0700, CavesOfTQLT wrote:
> Pat, it's looking like I will have to contact support, though I don't
> like doing this if it's the router to blame. As you know I'm just a tad
> annoyed that after 4/5 weeks since getting my SB2 I've had nothing but
> grief with it.

You are just so special. When I got my first one, it took
me maybe an hour to get happy. My second took less.

Remind me never to drink whatever you like :-)

It sure sounds to me that you've been cursed and now have a
bad unit. Did you check out Sean's photos of how to reseat
the voodoo cards? Don't remember if that was on his site or
slim's



--
Pat
http://www.pfarrell.com/music/slimserver/slimsoftware.html

seanadams
2005-09-07, 19:59
Someone from Slim Devices needs to jump in here. Something ain't right. At the very least I'd open up the SB2 and check for loose connections, particularly with the antennas and the wireless module.

Here's what you'd be dealing with internally: http://www.slimdevices.com/photos/inside_squeezebox2/

If you're comfortable opening it up, then yes, please do check the internal connections. Make sure the processor card is fully seated and the antenna cables haven't come off. See http://www.seanadams.com/loose_cpu for an illustration - this problem only affected a very small qty of SB2s shipped, but it may be what you're seeing.

The wireless module is similar to those used in PC (not Mac) laptops, but it will not work with any laptop card. Only recent Atheros chipsets will work.

support@slimdevices.com can help... we'll even be happy to call you in the UK, as we have cheap long distance rates. :)

Sorry for the trouble - we'll make it right.

CavesOfTQLT
2005-09-08, 02:49
Sean: I've opened up the SB2 and checked for loose connections and everything appears okay. That white connector is fully seated, and it also looks 'glued', so I assume it's one of the 'updated' units. The sticker stuck inside says 'Slim Devices May.30 05'

I've powered it back up, put it 2 feet away from the router, and it sits there at the 'connecting to wireless network' screen, before going off completely. Going to 'current settings/view wireless strength' shows 0%, and every now and then (say 30s to 1min) it'll show 100%, sometimes 99%, for about 1-2 seconds before going back to 0%. This is one wierd problem...

I'll send a message to support like you suggest. Thanks for your input.

Scott Culverhouse
2005-09-08, 13:49
Hi,

Sorry to pipe in so late but only just read the thread. I had a SB1 and
purchased a SB2 and sold the SB1 to a friend. He had real trouble
getting it working with his Belkin router. The only way it would work
was with encryption off, which is not acceptable. So he purchased a
linksys router and all the problems were solved instantly. I have also
had problems with Belkin before not specifically linked to SB but still.

Try turning off encryption for a while and see what happens.

Scott

On Thu, 8 Sep 2005 02:49:22 -0700
CavesOfTQLT wrote:

>
> Sean: I've opened up the SB2 and checked for loose connections and
> everything appears okay. That white connector is fully seated, and it
> also looks 'glued', so I assume it's one of the 'updated' units. The
> sticker stuck inside says 'Slim Devices May.30 05'
>
> I've powered it back up, put it 2 feet away from the router, and it
> sits there at the 'connecting to wireless network' screen, before going
> off completely. Going to 'current settings/view wireless strength' shows
> 0%, and every now and then (say 30s to 1min) it'll show 100%, sometimes
> 99%, for about 1-2 seconds before going back to 0%. This is one wierd
> problem...
>
> I'll send a message to support like you suggest. Thanks for your input.
>
>
> --
> CavesOfTQLT
>

seanadams
2005-09-08, 15:17
At this point I'm pretty sure it's one of two things:

1) a flaky router: your router may be crashing or rebooting. I had this problem with a new netgear router until I updated the router's firmware, then everything was fine.

2) a failed wireless module in the SB2. This is extremely unlikely though - the wireless modules have been very reliable.

Kevin (support@slimdevices.com) knows which models of routers might have issues requiring firmware upgrade of the router. AFAIK there are no routers which just "don't work" with SB2, but there are quite a few that have bugs in older firmware revs.

jtf
2005-09-08, 18:19
Here's my thought.... the SB2 is trying to connect to the Linksys network since it is a stronger signal. I don't have an SB2 (have one SliMP3 and 2 SB1s) so I'm not sure if it is different in the way it finds the networks but... what if it is somehow seeing the Linksys network and trying to connect. It connects, but doesn't find a Slimserver on this network.

Is there a way to force the SB2 to ignore one network and only use the one you specify?

However, this doesn't explain why playback would be choppy. I seem to recall that there are specific ports on your router that you can forward to the Slimserver if you have problems. Have you tried that?

radish
2005-09-08, 18:21
Is there a way to force the SB2 to ignore one network and only use the one you specify?


That's what the SSID is for.

jtf
2005-09-08, 18:42
That's what the SSID is for.
Ah that's right, you tell the SB what SSID to use. My 3 are all wired - I have Ethernet 24 ports throughout my home :)

Perhaps they both have the same SSID?

ceejay
2005-09-09, 00:51
A few more random thoughts - I've also had a variety of problems with the Wireless connection. None of mine turned out to be the Squeezebox at fault, although I guess someone has to be the unlucky person witha faulty unit!

1 - I too had interference from a neighbours network. Its well worth trying different channels - some documentation I've read recommends not trying to use adjacent channels if you can help it. Try the lowest and highest channel numbers available to you.

2 - Unlikely to be your problem ... but I found the microwave oven completely kills the link, every time!

3 - I had one of my SB2's working fine for a while... and then started to have all sorts of weird breakup problems. Not obviously a wireless problem, I seem to remember the exact behaviour was different for listening to radio streams vs local FLACs, but after a lot of swapping (made much easier by having multiple PCs, SB2s and WAPs to play with!!!) I tracked it down to the wireless access point I was using. I was getting this on/off behaviour even with the SB2 right next to the WAP. The WAP (which I had been using for years) had failed (a Belkin unit, now I come to think of it!).

Suggestion: see if your local PC World or similar will sell you a standalone wireless access point (don't need to replace your router) on a return-if-it-doesn't-work-in-your-house basis. Then plug it into a wired port on your network somewhere, give yourself a new wireless network (remember to select a different channel and SSID from your current router and your neighbour!) and give it a go.

Good luck....

Ceejay

CavesOfTQLT
2005-09-09, 01:28
Scott: As I've heard nothing from support I'll give your no encryption idea a quick trial. May as well try everything.

Sean: The router was purchased at the same time as the SB2, and one of the first things I did was to update it with the latest firmware.

jtf: I've set up the firewall with the necessary ports. Also, since moving the SB2 closer to the router (from the rear of the house to the front), the SB2 wireless set-up screen now shows two more networks available, all with different names.

ceejay: I have tried different channels, but I'll give it another go whilst I'm trialling out Scott's suggestion. The microwave oven is not being used so I'm sure that isn't the problem. And I am getting tempted to do your 'alternative wireless' idea just to get things 'moving'.

I'll post back with any results...

Marc Sherman
2005-09-09, 08:20
CavesOfTQLT wrote:
>
> jtf: I've set up the firewall with the necessary ports. Also, since
> moving the SB2 closer to the router (from the rear of the house to the
> front), the SB2 wireless set-up screen now shows two more networks
> available, all with different names.

Did you make sure that your Belkin router is set up with a unique SSID?

- Marc

MrC
2005-09-09, 10:12
With at least 3 different networks in your vicinity, this is likely to be the problem.

Turning off encryption will only mask the problem a bit, but at the expense of major security loss.

Scott Culverhouse
2005-09-09, 10:42
On Fri, 9 Sep 2005 10:12:05 -0700
MrC wrote:

>
> With at least 3 different networks in your vicinity, this is likely to
> be the problem.
>
> Turning off encryption will only mask the problem a bit, but at the
> expense of major security loss.
I agree, I only suggested turning off the encryption for a short time just
to rule it out, in my experience with SB -vs- Belkin the Belkin
encryption got in the way.

Scott


+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Scott Culverhouse
scottc (AT) dna-is (DOT) net (Private E-mail address)
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

MrC
2005-09-09, 11:11
I agree, I only suggested turning off the encryption for a short time just
to rule it out, in my experience with SB -vs- Belkin the Belkin
encryption got in the way.

I understood the point and the test. What wasn't clear is if you were talking about some old Belkin router you'd experienced trouble with, or if you were talking about the Pre-N MIMO router which is based on an entirely different chipset.

I'm pushing back against this voodoo computer science that is rampant on various help forums whenever I can. The "hey, my friend had some old belkin, and we couldn't get it to work, so we disabled encryption and got it to work, so you should try it too" is like saying "hey, we waved these chicken bones in the air, and then did a mexican polka, and got it to work". :-)

Sorry, I'm not picking on or trying to insult you in the least - i'm trying to suggest through a little humor that a more scientific approach is necessary.

CavesOfTQLT
2005-09-09, 13:30
Yes, my SSID is unique.

I'll report back tomorrow night or Sunday with the latest... let's just say something wierd happened SB2 wise at lunchtime today and when I came back this evening to try out Scott's encryption suggestion, everything on the wireless side appears to be working. I've got my fingers crossed that this remains so, and I'll be giving it a good work out tomorrow to see if any further problems arise.

Many, many thanks for all your valued input.

Fifer
2005-09-09, 13:58
Perhaps your neighbours network is down?