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yorkey
2005-07-26, 01:45
Hi everyone!

I have a feeling that this question must have cropped up before, but I couldn't find anything - either here or on Hydrogenaudio. Frogive me if I haven't looker hard enough...

Is there a way to make Slimserver read APEv2 tags on MP3s? If not, are there plans to add support in the future?

I'm aware that I could just use ID3v2 instead, but that leads to other problems (e.g. foobar2000 not currently handling ID3v2 very well, mp3gain writing APE 'undo'-tags). I also know that there are ways to make fb2k and mp3gain work with ID3v2-tagged MP3s, but it would be much easier (for me) if Slimserver supported APE tags for MP3s.

(Tags are just a messy business, aren't they?)

Cheers, yorkey

dean
2005-07-26, 04:35
Hi Yorkey,

On Jul 26, 2005, at 1:45 AM, yorkey wrote:
> Is there a way to make Slimserver read APEv2 tags on MP3s? If not, are
> there plans to add support in the future?
>
> I'm aware that I could just use ID3v2 instead, but that leads to other
> problems (e.g. foobar2000 not currently handling ID3v2 very well,
> mp3gain writing APE 'undo'-tags). I also know that there are ways to
> make fb2k and mp3gain work with ID3v2-tagged MP3s, but it would be
> much
> easier (for me) if Slimserver supported APE tags for MP3s.
I don't think I've seen MP3s with APEv2 tags in them. Could you file
an enhancement request on http://bugs.slimdevices.com/ with the
details and attach a sample file?

> (Tags are just a messy business, aren't they?)
Yes, they are. :(

Thanks,

dean
infp

yorkey
2005-07-26, 12:10
> I don't think I've seen MP3s with APEv2 tags in them.

It's not that uncommon. The main reason is probably that it's the standard tagging format in foobar2000. And its "rising popularity" is even mentioned in the wikipedia article! ;-)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/APEv2_tag

> Could you file an enhancement request on http://bugs.slimdevices.com/ with the details and attach a sample file?

Done.
http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1881

Cheers, yorkey

yorkey
2005-11-15, 06:13
Sorry for reanimating this old thread, but I'd still like to see the feature described above. There must be others who like to tag their MP3s with APEv2, which is foobar2000's standard tagging format for MP3s.

For now, because the songs also receive ID3v1.1 tags, they are useable with SlimServer, but longer tags break off and extra fields are not supported.

APEv2 has already been implemented for MusePack, so this should be quite easy. Unfortunately I don't know any Perl. Votes for the enhancement request would be appreciated!

http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1881

Cheers, yorkey

Mark Lanctot
2005-11-15, 08:12
What about ID3v2?

Works fine for me with both SlimServer and foobar.

Also note that MP3Gain either writes its
ReplayGain or undo information (not sure which) in
APEv2.

yorkey wrote:
> Sorry for reanimating this old thread, but I'd still
like to see the
> feature described above. There must be others who
like to tag their
> MP3s with APEv2, which is foobar2000's standard
tagging format for
> MP3s.
>
> For now, because the songs also receive ID3v1.1
tags, they are useable
> with SlimServer, but longer tags break off and extra
fields are not
> supported.
>
> APEv2 has already been implemented for MusePack, so
this should be
> quite easy. Unfortunately I don't know any Perl.
Votes for the
> enhancement request would be appreciated!
>
> http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1881
>
> Cheers, yorkey
>
>

--
___________________________________


Mark Lanctot
___________________________________

jth
2005-11-15, 08:56
Tag reading is already complicated enough without adding support
for yet another format - in my opinion.

My mp3 files have both id3v2 and mp3gain ape tags and they work
fine with both fb2000 and slimserver, as long as you have the id3v2
foobar plugin.

Dan Sully
2005-11-15, 10:09
* yorkey shaped the electrons to say...

>Sorry for reanimating this old thread, but I'd still like to see the
>feature described above. There must be others who like to tag their
>MP3s with APEv2, which is foobar2000's standard tagging format for
>MP3s.

It's too bad that ID3v2.4 is the standard for MP3s though.. Can you make FB2k
do that? This whole shoving a different tag format onto a file format really
makes it hard for everyone.

-D
--
<weezyl> Oh, I cook bacon naked all the time. You just have to keep the heat on med-low.

pfarrell
2005-11-15, 12:00
On Tue, 2005-11-15 at 09:09 -0800, Dan Sully wrote:
> It's too bad that ID3v2.4 is the standard for MP3s though..

True this week for some packages.
Proper ID3 versions seems to be unknowable.
I've not found any information about what makes
a particular version official or standard or even
widely accepted.

--
Pat
http://www.pfarrell.com/music/slimserver/slimsoftware.html

Dan Sully
2005-11-15, 12:01
* Pat Farrell shaped the electrons to say...

>On Tue, 2005-11-15 at 09:09 -0800, Dan Sully wrote:
>> It's too bad that ID3v2.4 is the standard for MP3s though..
>
>True this week for some packages.
>Proper ID3 versions seems to be unknowable.
>I've not found any information about what makes
>a particular version official or standard or even
>widely accepted.

While completely true, it's still better than jamming an APE tag into a MP3 file.

-D
--
"Hey, careful, man, there's a beverage here!"

Ben Sandee
2005-11-15, 12:03
On 11/15/05, Dan Sully <dan (AT) slimdevices (DOT) com> wrote:
>
> * Pat Farrell shaped the electrons to say...
>
> >On Tue, 2005-11-15 at 09:09 -0800, Dan Sully wrote:
> >> It's too bad that ID3v2.4 is the standard for MP3s though..
> >
> >True this week for some packages.
> >Proper ID3 versions seems to be unknowable.
> >I've not found any information about what makes
> >a particular version official or standard or even
> >widely accepted.
>
> While completely true, it's still better than jamming an APE tag into a
> MP3 file.
>

Why? I can make my APE tags look exactly like my FLAC tags. This isn't the
case w/ID3.

Ben

Dan Sully
2005-11-15, 12:08
* Ben Sandee shaped the electrons to say...

>Why? I can make my APE tags look exactly like my FLAC tags. This isn't the case w/ID3.

You aren't writing (or modifiying) the MP3 tag reader program now are you? :)

It slows things down to check for multiple types of tags in a file.

Also - which one wins if there are multiple?

-D
--
"Hey, careful, man, there's a beverage here!"

Ben Sandee
2005-11-15, 13:00
On 11/15/05, Dan Sully <dan (AT) slimdevices (DOT) com> wrote:
>
> * Ben Sandee shaped the electrons to say...
>
> >Why? I can make my APE tags look exactly like my FLAC tags. This isn't
> the case w/ID3.
>
> You aren't writing (or modifiying) the MP3 tag reader program now are you?
> :)
>
> It slows things down to check for multiple types of tags in a file.
>
> Also - which one wins if there are multiple?
>

No, I'm not writing the tool. I'm just not particularly happy with the state
of the ID3 tagging software out there though. It seems like there's always a
niche tag that each potential tagger doesn't support properly. APE is just a
command-line tool that works fine for me. I would only use APE for cases
where the ID3v2 tags/taggers just aren't flexible enough.

There's already logic for the multiple tag issues like this (ID3v2 wins out
over ID3v1, right?). I would assume APEv2 would take priority over ID3v2
which would take priority over ID3v1. I understand the performance issue
though (it takes 3 minutes for my 800mhz athlon to dump the APE tags from my
12000 mp3's). This is not something you would want to be active for everyone
because so very few people are interested at all.

Are the hooks there for plugin to do this work?

Ben

yorkey
2005-11-16, 08:09
Some points I'd like to make:

* It is not true that ID3 is the standard for MP3 - which is precisely the problem: there is no standard, MP3 is not even designed to accomodate tags, unlike formats which use a container (e.g. MP4 for AAC or Matroska for various streams).

* ID3 is the most widespread tagging system for MP3s, which does not mean that it is the best. To quote the wikipedia entry on APEv2: "Developers mainly endorse APEv2 because the ID3v2 tag is very rule based and very difficult to update. The changes in each minor revision are very large and usually contradictory so that a ID3v2.2 supported player will not correctly read an ID3v2.3 tag, etc."

* Even if some people do, I'm not going to say that APE is better than ID3. It's probably a matter of preference. (Actually, most people using ID3 do not choose because they are not aware of alternatives...) Personally, I find that APEv2 works faster and is less confusing.

* The enhancement seems easy to implement. As to precedence, Dean says in Bug 1881: "should be sufficient to suggest that if a user decides to put APE tags in, that the intent is that those are read, same way that ID3v2 is set to override ID3v1. already too many 'options' littered all over the place. Plus, this is would match the way MusePack is handled. APE tags are merged over top of ID3V2, leaving any ID3 tags that are not overridden by matching APE tags." As to the work involved, he thinks that "AUDIO::APETags module is already included from CPAN, so it could be fairly straightforward, following the example in Slim::Formats::MusePack".

I can understand that speed might be an issue, and to be honest, I cannot judge the impact. Still, to me it seems an enhancement worth implementing.

Cheers, Yorkey

Dan Sully
2005-11-16, 08:43
* yorkey shaped the electrons to say...

>Some points I'd like to make:
>
>I can understand that speed might be an issue, and to be honest, I
>cannot judge the impact. Still, to me it seems an enhancement worth
>implementing.

I completely agree with all your points - it's just that time is limited, and
the number of people using APE tags in MP3s is small. Not saying we won't
ever get around to it - but patches welcome.

-D
--
<iNoah> all your base class are belong to us