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Michael Amster
2005-07-05, 10:47
I have been going through my collection of about 430 albums with EasyTag
and correcting to often horrendous job FreeDB does with this
information. In going through, I have decided to tag artists last name
first so that search and display is easier. I know that there has been
some discussion about name vs. display info, but given that the Artist
tag is the main one I use, how do people do the following. I have a
number of Jazz Albums by:

Bill Evans Trio
Bud Powell Trio
Dave Brubeck Quartet
Harry Connick, Jr.

I have chosen to put the Artist tag in as:

Evans, Bill Trio
Powell, Bud Trio
Brubeck, Dave Quartet
Connick, Harry Jr.

Any hints on how people handle this same issue with their collections?
My goal is to make this all make sense. It does not help when you have
people with fake names like Iggy Pop - I guess that become Pop, Iggy - I
have to go back to some record stores to see how they do it...

-MA

PAUL WILLIAMSON
2005-07-05, 11:12
>>> mamster (AT) wnx (DOT) com 07/05/05 1:47 PM >>>

<snip>

> I know that there has been some discussion about name
> vs. display info, but given that the Artist tag is the main
> one I use, how do people do the following. I have a number
> of Jazz Albums by:
>
> Bill Evans Trio
> Bud Powell Trio
> Dave Brubeck Quartet
> Harry Connick, Jr.
>
> I have chosen to put the Artist tag in as:
>
> Evans, Bill Trio
> Powell, Bud Trio
> Brubeck, Dave Quartet
> Connick, Harry Jr.

These (IMHO) should be:

Evans Trio, Bill
Powell Trio, Bud
Brubeck Quartet, Dave
Connick, Jr., Harry

At least this is how I do it.

> Any hints on how people handle this same issue with their
> collections? My goal is to make this all make sense. It
> does not help when you have people with fake names
> like Iggy Pop - I guess that become Pop, Iggy - I
> have to go back to some record stores to see how they do it...

What makes it more interesting is bands named after people..
Seemingly simple tags like:

Lynryd Skynyrd
The Dave Mathews Band
George Thorogood & The Delware Destroyers
Bruce Springsteen & The E Street Band
Stevie Ray Vaughan and Double Trouble
The Pat Metheny Group

What do they become? I've started thinking I'm going to redo
all my tags to just be regular format, rather than the system
I've come up with for alphabetizing every song I have. It
makes sense to me, but everyone else that comes over to play
something is used to looking for it under "George Thorogood"
but I've conveniently placed it under "Thorogood, George" and
that is confusing to them.

Paul

JJZolx
2005-07-05, 11:52
I have been going through my collection of about 430 albums with EasyTag
and correcting to often horrendous job FreeDB does with this
information. In going through, I have decided to tag artists last name
first so that search and display is easier. I know that there has been
some discussion about name vs. display info, but given that the Artist
tag is the main one I use, how do people do the following. I have a
number of Jazz Albums by:

Bill Evans Trio
Bud Powell Trio
Dave Brubeck Quartet
Harry Connick, Jr.

I have chosen to put the Artist tag in as:

Evans, Bill Trio
Powell, Bud Trio
Brubeck, Dave Quartet
Connick, Harry Jr.

Any hints on how people handle this same issue with their collections?
My goal is to make this all make sense. It does not help when you have
people with fake names like Iggy Pop - I guess that become Pop, Iggy - I
have to go back to some record stores to see how they do it...

I don't use "lastname, firstname", as I don't think there's much to be gained by doing so. Ironically (I suppose) I do use lastname, firstname in organizing my CDs on the shelf, but I've never found the two approaches to conflict in my mind. With the CDs on my shelves I treat stage names used by individuals exactly as if they were band names.

One thing I don't do is distinguish between trios, quartets, quintets, sextets, etc., etc. formed by an artist, even with such famed groups as the Bill Evans Trio or the Miles Davis Quintet. I'd much rather have all of Miles Davis led work in one place - it's much easier when browsing by artist, which is my usual approach.

Niek Jongerius
2005-07-05, 22:40
> I don't use "lastname, firstname", as I don't think there's much to be
> gained by doing so. Ironically (I suppose) I do use lastname,
> firstname in organizing my CDs on the shelf, but I've never found the
> two approaches to conflict in my mind. With the CDs on my shelves I
> treat stage names used by individuals exactly as if they were band
> names.

Same here, CDs on the shelves by last name, the tags on the files by first
name. Avoids having to wrap your head around stuff like Sam the Sham and
the Pharaos. And besides, it kinda makes me feel good, being on a first
name basis with all those famous people in my library. :-)

Niek.

A.J. Aranyosi
2005-07-06, 09:31
In response to a comment I added to a bug report, Ben Sandee told me,
although I haven't tried this yet, that SlimServer supports certain
ID3v2 tags that let you specify sorting criteria that are separate
from the artist/album name. These tags are TSOP and TSOA for
performer and album sort order, respectively. For example, you can
have the artist tag set to "David Bowie" and the TSOP tag set to
"Bowie, David". Then Bowie will fall between The Beatles and The
Buzzcocks alphabetically, but still be listed as "David Bowie".

On 7/6/05, Niek Jongerius <niek (AT) qwertyboy (DOT) org> wrote:
> > I don't use "lastname, firstname", as I don't think there's much to be
> > gained by doing so. Ironically (I suppose) I do use lastname,
> > firstname in organizing my CDs on the shelf, but I've never found the
> > two approaches to conflict in my mind. With the CDs on my shelves I
> > treat stage names used by individuals exactly as if they were band
> > names.
>
> Same here, CDs on the shelves by last name, the tags on the files by first
> name. Avoids having to wrap your head around stuff like Sam the Sham and
> the Pharaos. And besides, it kinda makes me feel good, being on a first
> name basis with all those famous people in my library. :-)
>
> Niek.
>
>

Ben Sandee
2005-07-06, 09:51
On 7/6/05, A.J. Aranyosi <tootallforpony (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote:
> In response to a comment I added to a bug report, Ben Sandee told me,
> although I haven't tried this yet, that SlimServer supports certain
> ID3v2 tags that let you specify sorting criteria that are separate
> from the artist/album name. These tags are TSOP and TSOA for
> performer and album sort order, respectively. For example, you can
> have the artist tag set to "David Bowie" and the TSOP tag set to
> "Bowie, David". Then Bowie will fall between The Beatles and The
> Buzzcocks alphabetically, but still be listed as "David Bowie".

Yep, I'm not the only one using these tags either. There are a few
minor bugs open with respect to these tags but in general I find them
very usable. I use MusicBrainz to autotag my mp3's and it
automatically sets these tags for me.

http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1306
http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1636

Ben

robertwallace
2005-07-06, 14:41
I also use firstname, lastname, but my question to both of you is: Why
do you still have CDs on the shelf? Mine are all in boxes in the
basement. ;-)

Robert

Niek Jongerius wrote:

>>I don't use "lastname, firstname", as I don't think there's much to be
>>gained by doing so. Ironically (I suppose) I do use lastname,
>>firstname in organizing my CDs on the shelf, but I've never found the
>>two approaches to conflict in my mind. With the CDs on my shelves I
>>treat stage names used by individuals exactly as if they were band
>>names.
>>
>>
>
>Same here, CDs on the shelves by last name, the tags on the files by first
>name. Avoids having to wrap your head around stuff like Sam the Sham and
>the Pharaos. And besides, it kinda makes me feel good, being on a first
>name basis with all those famous people in my library. :-)
>
>Niek.
>
>

Michael Amster
2005-07-06, 18:34
Ben Sandee wrote:

>On 7/6/05, A.J. Aranyosi <tootallforpony (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote:
>
>
>>In response to a comment I added to a bug report, Ben Sandee told me,
>>although I haven't tried this yet, that SlimServer supports certain
>>ID3v2 tags that let you specify sorting criteria that are separate
>>from the artist/album name. These tags are TSOP and TSOA for
>>performer and album sort order, respectively. For example, you can
>>have the artist tag set to "David Bowie" and the TSOP tag set to
>>"Bowie, David". Then Bowie will fall between The Beatles and The
>>Buzzcocks alphabetically, but still be listed as "David Bowie".
>>
>>
>
>Yep, I'm not the only one using these tags either. There are a few
>minor bugs open with respect to these tags but in general I find them
>very usable. I use MusicBrainz to autotag my mp3's and it
>automatically sets these tags for me.
>
>http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1306
>http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1636
>
>Ben
>
>
>
This is exactly what I want. I have been using EasyTag. I will see if
it supports TSOP and TSOA. What platform does MusicBrainz run on (I am
Linux at home)?

Ben Sandee
2005-07-06, 20:51
On 7/6/05, Michael Amster <mamster (AT) wnx (DOT) com> wrote:
> This is exactly what I want. I have been using EasyTag. I will see if
> it supports TSOP and TSOA. What platform does MusicBrainz run on (I am
> Linux at home)?

Michael,

You can see for yourself at musicbrainz.org. The SDK is GPL but the
main tagging program itself is for Windows (and it looks like some
sort of Mac OS X tagger is available too). A google search revealed a
few apps that embed the musicbrainz SDK but I have not used any of
them. You might check out Picard:

http://wiki.musicbrainz.org/wiki.pl?PicardTagger

This is the development version of the musicbrainz tagger.

HTH,

Ben

Niek Jongerius
2005-07-06, 22:51
> I also use firstname, lastname, but my question to both of you is: Why
> do you still have CDs on the shelf? Mine are all in boxes in the
> basement. ;-)

I've got my shelves behind glass doors in the living room. Nowadays it's
merely decoration I guess (I haven't got anything else collection-wise
to display there).

Niek.

Greg Klanderman
2005-07-07, 07:20