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rds
2005-07-02, 17:01
Ever since I got my first SqueezeBox, I've wondered why Stop and Mute buttons were not provided on the remote, especially since there are three empty key spaces available on the remote. These just seem like very logical buttons to find on a remote control. Also, if they were simply overlooked, why were they not added when SqueezeBox2 was released?

I'm aware that Stop functionality can be invoked by pressing and holding the Pause key, but this is not "discoverable" (i.e. not without reading the documentation, anyway). I just bought a SqueezeBox2 for my dad and this is one of the usability issues that arose.

Anyway, at least Stop can still be invoked from the remote in some fashion, but why is there no Mute button (i.e. to set the volume to zero and then back to the previous volume setting if pressed again)? I appreciate that in some situations Pause can be used, but it is not always desirable to pause the stream (e.g. when synched with another player or when listening to a live radio stream). There are some instances where you really just want the volume muted.

Is there a mute function that can be mapped to remote?

Simon Still
2005-07-03, 02:42
On 7/3/05, rds <rds.1rkhab (AT) no-mx (DOT) forums.slimdevices.com> wrote:
>
> I'm aware that Stop functionality can be invoked by pressing and
> holding the Pause key, but this is not "discoverable" (i.e. not without
> reading the documentation, anyway). I just bought a SqueezeBox2 for my
> dad and this is one of the usability issues that arose.

"Stop" just isn't neccessary on a streaming/non-mechanical device. On
a tape player or CD 'stop' switches off the motor. Neither my iPod or
Tivo have a stop button and, whilst it's confusing at first, you get
used to it. What function would you want stop to have that pause/off
doesn't?

> why is there no Mute button (i.e. to set the volume to
> zero and then back to the previous volume setting if pressed again)? I
> appreciate that in some situations Pause can be used, but it is not
> always desirable to pause the stream (e.g. when synched with another
> player or when listening to a live radio stream). There are some
> instances where you really just want the volume muted.
>
> Is there a mute function that can be mapped to remote?

I'd guess yes as there *is* a mute on softsqueeze.

I see there's another thread at the moment about the remote. It's not
ideal but my wish would be for an interface that is much simpler with
far fewer remote buttons (i've done this to an extent by using a
learning system remote). The one really useful addition for a slim
remote would be to give it learning capabilities to operate volume and
mute on a system amplifier - if you're using anything other than
powered speakers (and i suspect most people are) controlling the
volume of the squeezebox itself is very much second best.

max.spicer
2005-07-03, 03:07
Why don't you just turn the SqueezeBox off? If it's synced with another player, the other player will carry on (unless you've also chosen to sync power state). If it's not synced, then it will just resume in the same position when you turn it back on. In other words, when not synced off=mute/stop, when synced off=mute.

Max


Ever since I got my first SqueezeBox, I've wondered why Stop and Mute buttons were not provided on the remote, especially since there are three empty key spaces available on the remote. These just seem like very logical buttons to find on a remote control. Also, if they were simply overlooked, why were they not added when SqueezeBox2 was released?

I'm aware that Stop functionality can be invoked by pressing and holding the Pause key, but this is not "discoverable" (i.e. not without reading the documentation, anyway). I just bought a SqueezeBox2 for my dad and this is one of the usability issues that arose.

Anyway, at least Stop can still be invoked from the remote in some fashion, but why is there no Mute button (i.e. to set the volume to zero and then back to the previous volume setting if pressed again)? I appreciate that in some situations Pause can be used, but it is not always desirable to pause the stream (e.g. when synched with another player or when listening to a live radio stream). There are some instances where you really just want the volume muted.

Is there a mute function that can be mapped to remote?

Patrick Dixon
2005-07-03, 03:23
One reason you may not want to turn the player off is when you are streaming 'listen again' radio streams. If you stop the stream and restart, it restarts from the beginning again; which is not that helpful if you are half way through a 2hr programme!

I'd vote for a mute button too, although being a hardware change it's not likely to happen anytime soon.

Steven Moore
2005-07-03, 04:26
Would it be possible to map a mute function to holding the two
volume buttons down at once?

Steven Moore
On 3 Jul 2005, at 11:23, Patrick Dixon wrote:

>
> One reason you may not want to turn the player off is when you are
> streaming 'listen again' radio streams. If you stop the stream and
> restart, it restarts from the beginning again; which is not that
> helpful if you are half way through a 2hr programme!
>
> I'd vote for a mute button too, although being a hardware change it's
> not likely to happen anytime soon.
>
>
> --
> Patrick Dixon
>
> www.at-view.co.uk
>

Dave D
2005-07-03, 09:46
I'm eagerly anticipating my SB2 arriving on Tuesday. Meanwhile, I've been playing with Softsqueeze, and hadn't even noticed that the Mute button is not present on the real SB2 remote. (Well what do you know? :) I've used the Mute on Softqueeze plenty of times already.

I agree that Mute should be added to a future remote, especially since there are several currently-unused locations.

In the interim, it seems that a new mapping should be possible. The zero button does nothing on Softsqueeze while music is playing. Context-applicable mappings are possible, right? If music is playing, pressing the zero button would mute/unmute.

- Dave

[QUOTE=Simon Still]

I'd guess yes as there *is* a mute on softsqueeze.

Phillip Kerman
2005-07-03, 10:24
I agree a mute button has real utility. However, the often cited reason
that, because there's an empty slot is not by itself a valid justification
for adding the button. That is, empty spots have value sometimes. I think
any tinkering with the remote should be approached carefully. One of the
big "features" is its simplicity and ease of use.

Thanks,
Phillip

stinkingpig
2005-07-03, 10:52
Phillip Kerman wrote:
> I agree a mute button has real utility. However, the often cited reason
> that, because there's an empty slot is not by itself a valid justification
> for adding the button. That is, empty spots have value sometimes. I think
> any tinkering with the remote should be approached carefully. One of the
> big "features" is its simplicity and ease of use.
>
> Thanks,
> Phillip
>

That's commie-talk. What are you, some kinda red? Bigger! Better!
Faster! More! Feeping creaturitis is a feature! Bloat is the one true goal!

:)

--
Jack at Monkeynoodle dot Org: It's a Scientific Venture...
Riding the Emergency Third Rail Power Trip since 1996!

Dave D
2005-07-03, 11:50
I guess I should have not written, "...especially since there are several currently-unused locations," but rather, "...especially since Softsqueeze, seemingly endorsed by Slim Devices, has a Mute button, but otherwise looks (in it's default skin) exactly like the actual SB2 remote." Geez, this is getting complicated. Where's my lawyer? ;)

Anyway, I agree with you wholeheartedly about the misguided practice of adding buttons just because there's room for them. There are plenty of eye-chart remotes out there.

Just my opinion; your mileage may vary. Fortunately, there are far fewer individuals over at Slim Devices who are calling the shots about what their product looks like and what it does :)

Regards,
Dave


I agree a mute button has real utility. However, the often cited reason
that, because there's an empty slot is not by itself a valid justification
for adding the button. That is, empty spots have value sometimes. I think
any tinkering with the remote should be approached carefully. One of the
big "features" is its simplicity and ease of use.

Thanks,
Phillip

Dave D
2005-07-04, 15:29
The zero button does nothing on Softsqueeze while music is playing. Context-applicable mappings are possible, right? If music is playing, pressing the zero button would mute/unmute.


Well, this suggestion won't fly. As I was peering through the code to find a place to overload a Mute function for the remote, I was playing with Softsqueeze and noticed that the number buttons DO have a function while music is playing: they take you to various positions in your playlist (looks like the numbers correspond to a percentage of the list, i.e. "0" takes you to the end of the playlist.)

Maybe there's another place to sneak it in. :)

Dave D
2005-07-14, 20:43
Adding a Mute function to the SB2 remote is really easy. The Mute function already exists in the Slimserver code. It just needs a mapping for the remote.

Edit this file:

C:\Program Files\SlimServer\Server\IR\Default.map

(or whereever you loaded slimserver.) You might want to save a copy of the original file. I did not find a way to create a map file of a different name and have slimserver point to it (instead of Default.map), but I think that is supposed to be possible.

Decide what button you want to overload the "Mute" function on. You do not have to give up the original function of the button. The Slim architecture has allowed for both brief button presses and extended button presses. Pause is an example of this: press Pause briefly and the Squeezebox will pause. Press Pause for a bit longer ("press and hold") and the "Stop" function is executed. You'll probably want to choose a button which does not already have a "hold" feature implemented (you'll see I did not strictly follow that advice below). Currently, the buttons which have "hold" implemented are:

rew, fwd, pause, play and add. The numbers [0-9] also have "hold" implemented, but only during text entry, as used in Searching, i.e. press-and-hold "5" enters "5" instead of the letters "J", "K", or "L".

Anyway, I chose the 0 button as the one to implement the "Mute" function. I chose this button because it kind of makes sense:

1) It's close to where SoftSqueeze has its Mute button.

2) "0" is a nice mnemonic to remember "Mute."

3) I wanted to see if overloading the hold function on a number key would mess up the search function for that key (it doesn't).

So to continue the instructions for editing of the Default.map file, under the [Common] section header, add this line:

0.hold = muting

Whitespace does not matter; I saw that the Defaults.map file happens to use tabs--you could follow this practice.

[You could add the above line right under this existing line:

0 = numberScroll_0

so that you'll easily be able to see what pressing 0 briely does, vs. pressing it a bit longer.]

Restart slimserver.

That's all there is to it. Press-hand-hold 0 and it goes to Mute. Press-and-hold again and volume is restored. Just like you would expect.

This is one cool toy.

- Dave

kdf
2005-07-14, 21:21
On 14-Jul-05, at 8:43 PM, Dave D wrote:

>
> [You could add the above line right under this existing line:
>
> 0 = numberScroll_0
>
>
you may want to use 0.single = numberScroll_0 in this case
otherwise, numberScroll_0 is triggered before every mute.

..single on any button means a short press-and-release

there is also
..hold_release
..repeat modifiers.

Also, be aware that upgrading overwrites Default.map, so you will have
to change it again.

your other option is to use another .map file (say Custom.map) like so:

[common]
0 = dead #overwrite default function
0.hold = muting
0.single = numberScroll_0

You only need to add the stuff you want that is different from the
default.

Restart the server, then go into player settings->remote and choose
your new mapping.
This has to be done for every player you wish to have this mapping. It
will stick around through upgrades.

-kdf

Dave D
2005-07-15, 04:44
kdf,

Thanks for the extra info and tips on how to do this in a cleaner way. Also good to know that the Custom.map file simply overloads corresponding buttons in the Default.map file (so the Custom.map file can have only a few entries.) I wonder if this would be good material for the wiki (in addition to the info already in "Technical Information")?

I don't see hold_release mapped anywhere. What's a example of how this modifier could be used?

I have a clarification, also, which I just figured out. (FYI for others doing this.)

In a previous post, you had referred to the use of a map file of another name, e.g. Custom.map. As you suggested in that post, I had looked in Home->Settings->Player Settings->Remote, but the only options appearing there were for enabling or disabling the IR code recognition for the JVC and/or Slim remotes.

As it turns out, the option to use a different map file only appears in Player Settings->Remote if another map file currently exists in the directory with Default.map. If the only map file is Default.map, the option to change map files does not show up at all. (Yeah, ok it makes sense, but software so often does not make sense that it threw me a curve ;)

Thanks,
Dave

kdf
2005-07-15, 10:34
Quoting Dave D <Dave.D.1s7loz (AT) no-mx (DOT) forums.slimdevices.com>:

>
> kdf,
>
> Thanks for the extra info and tips on how to do this in a cleaner way.
> Also good to know that the Custom.map file simply overloads
> corresponding buttons in the Default.map file (so the Custom.map file
> can have only a few entries.) I wonder if this would be good material
> for the wiki (in addition to the info already in "Technical
> Information")?

sounds like a great plan :)

> I don't see hold_release mapped anywhere. What's a example of how this
> modifier could be used?

play.hold_release = somefunction

hold the button down long enough to get into hold mode, then let go to trigger
the function. As for a specific, practical example, I have none. However,
there is nothing special required. Just pick a function that you want. It would
be useful, perhaps, when you often have two functions that you do in sequence.
You could map one to .hold, then the second to .hold_release

-kdf

-kdf

Ben Sandee
2005-07-15, 10:49
On 7/15/05, kdf <slim-mail (AT) deane-freeman (DOT) com> wrote:
> the function. As for a specific, practical example, I have none. However,
> there is nothing special required. Just pick a function that you want. It would
> be useful, perhaps, when you often have two functions that you do in sequence.
> You could map one to .hold, then the second to .hold_release

How about a ffwd mode that resumed normal play when the button is
released? Would that work?

Ben

kdf
2005-07-15, 11:05
Quoting Ben Sandee <tbsandee (AT) gmail (DOT) com>:

> On 7/15/05, kdf <slim-mail (AT) deane-freeman (DOT) com> wrote:
> > the function. As for a specific, practical example, I have none. However,
> > there is nothing special required. Just pick a function that you want. It
> would
> > be useful, perhaps, when you often have two functions that you do in
> sequence.
> > You could map one to .hold, then the second to .hold_release
>
> How about a ffwd mode that resumed normal play when the button is
> released? Would that work?

I would expect rather displeasing results on that one. If the IR signal isn't
100%, then you go back to normal play before you intend.

-kdf

dean
2005-07-15, 11:47
That would be ideal, but it's hard to get right, though I think it
_is_ doable with the right heuristics in the server.

Definitely where we'd like to be...

Dave D
2005-07-15, 17:33
That would be ideal, but it's hard to get right, though I think it
_is_ doable with the right heuristics in the server.

Definitely where we'd like to be...

Well, I just tried out Ben's suggestion, and it seems to work fine--or at least better than the default mode. (Normally, pressing and holding fwd and rew requires another button press (Play) to get it back to normal speed. Add these lines to the Custom.map file (under [Common]) and it works as expected:

fwd.hold_release = play
rew.hold_release = play

plympton
2007-08-31, 07:51
Muting is great when you have several SB's synced up, too - you might want to walk into the Living Room and mute it while listening to the kitchen, or vice-versa.

Another thing is when you have a house full of these, you might want to mute all (though, yes, Pause WOULD do the same, but hey, work with me. What if you have a few players, playing different things, and want to mute them all - mute the kids' room, say?) when the phone rings or something, or what about an arbitrary volume when a key is pressed - go from "rockin' volume" to "mood volume", say.

Is there a way to do:
sleep = muting
sleep.hold = <some arbitrary volume>
or
sleep.hold = <mute.all.players>

-Dan

NFLnut
2008-06-19, 09:00
Can I add the mute function as detailed above in Squeezecenter? I can't find the "default.map" file. Was this changed in Squeezecenter?

iPhone
2008-06-19, 09:33
One reason you may not want to turn the player off is when you are streaming 'listen again' radio streams. If you stop the stream and restart, it restarts from the beginning again; which is not that helpful if you are half way through a 2hr programme!

I'd vote for a mute button too, although being a hardware change it's not likely to happen anytime soon.

Hello Patrick,
I use my "pause button" as a Mute. In your example does hitting pause cause the stream to start over or continue from the point of the Pause?

I have just always used the "Pause" button as a Mute button. I listen to mostly local files and some Radio IO. With local files the stream stops with Pause so the audio is muted completely because nothing is playing. Hit Pause again and the music continues from where it stopped.

NFLnut
2008-07-17, 20:34
Since there is no "default.map" file in Squeezecenter (7), where would I make the adjustments to a file to get the mute function?

peterw
2008-07-17, 21:16
Since there is no "default.map" file in Squeezecenter (7), where would I make the adjustments to a file to get the mute function?

It's "Default.map", and it's in the "IR" directory.

If you install ContextMenu (http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=47886), including configuring a button mapping for it, you'll get a Mute button that way. For instance, on my system I hold the Right Arrow button to get ContextMenu, and can then scroll to Mute Button and press the Right Arrow again. More steps than holding a single button, but it gives me more flexibility for invoking other functions. And it's easier to remember, especially on my "universal" remotes that don't have all the standard Slim Devices buttons. If you only want Mute, you can use the ContextMenu web UI to disable all other buttons. Mute would then be
1) invoke ContextMenu (e.g., hold Right Arrow)
2) press Right Arrow briefly (to select Mute)
If you use Mute more than any other ContextMenu option, you can use ContextMenu's "smart" ordering so that Mute will always be the first item suggested by ContextMenu -- or rely on the fact that ContextMenu defaults to the last option invoked if it's set for alphabetical prdering of options.

-Peter

NFLnut
2008-07-18, 14:12
Maybe that's the problem. I don't have an IR directory. My old installation folder for Slimserver (which I no longer use) has an IR folder, along with a Custom.map file, but my installation folder for SC 7 (C:\Program Files\SqueezeCenter) does not have an IR folder, nor a Custom.map or a Default.map file.

Should I just copy over the IR folder and the Custom.map file? Would that work?

peterw
2008-07-18, 18:03
Maybe that's the problem. I don't have an IR directory. My old installation folder for Slimserver (which I no longer use) has an IR folder, along with a Custom.map file, but my installation folder for SC 7 (C:\Program Files\SqueezeCenter) does not have an IR folder, nor a Custom.map or a Default.map file.

Should I just copy over the IR folder and the Custom.map file? Would that work?

Might the IR directory for Windows now be in the Application Data folder?
http://wiki.slimdevices.com/index.php/SqueezeCenterDefaultLocations

Have you searched all your local drives for Default.map?

NFLnut
2008-07-18, 19:46
Yeah. I've run several searches on the entire Squeezecenter folder(s) and there are no .map files there. I also do not have an IR folder in either the "Documents and Settings" folder or any of the Squeezecenter folders. The only place I found an "IR" folder or the .map file was in the old (abandoned) Slimserver folder.

peterw
2008-07-18, 20:35
Yeah. I've run several searches on the entire Squeezecenter folder(s) and there are no .map files there. I also do not have an IR folder in either the "Documents and Settings" folder or any of the Squeezecenter folders. The only place I found an "IR" folder or the .map file was in the old (abandoned) Slimserver folder.

Bizarre. I just remembered I could look at my Windows partition without rebooting -- my SC7 install has the map file at c:/Program Files/SqueezeCenter/server/IR/Default.map

NFLnut
2008-07-21, 11:17
I went ahead and copied the IR folder and the Custom.map file FROm the Slimserver install to the Squeezecenter folders (under the "server" folder). Now .. how can I tell if the .map file will even work, or IF it is already working? Also .. I would install your (peterw) ContextMenu plugin, but I'm afraid it is a little over my head on what it is, what it does, and how to implement the "Mute" function into my installation. I am NOT a programmer, so that might be the problem in my inability to understand the ContextMenu functionality.

I would like to map the "0" (zero) button as a MUTE function.

IMGrant
2009-05-04, 04:39
On 14-Jul-05, at 8:43 PM, Dave D wrote:
[color=blue]
your other option is to use another .map file (say Custom.map) like so:

[common]
0 = dead #overwrite default function
0.hold = muting
0.single = numberScroll_0


I tried this and found the mute function does not work quite as I expected - if I press and hold 0, the SB mutes and the volume shows something like -800329.41 dB (I have the alternative volume display from MusicInfoSCR plugin enabled). However, when I hold 0 again, it doesn't un-mute, it shows a large negative number again. I have to increase the volume from 0 dB to get the volume back. Anyone else see this?

It also doesn't work in Now Playing as I have the TrackStat plugin installed, which uses 0.hold to un-rate a track.

Dogberry2
2009-05-04, 09:14
I'm a little surprised nobody has mentioned this, but there is a mute function. Press the volume up and down buttons simultaneously. Or at least, I know this works on the Controller. I don't think I've ever tried it on a remote. Hmm. Have to give it a shot, but I use the Controller 90% of the time, so I just haven't had a need to try it with the remote.

peterw
2009-05-04, 09:35
I tried this and found the mute function does not work quite as I expected - if I press and hold 0, the SB mutes
...
However, when I hold 0 again, it doesn't un-mute,
...
I have to increase the volume from 0 dB to get the volume back. Anyone else see this?


Yes, I see this, too. Please open a ticket on bugs.slimdevices.com if there isn't one already.

IMGrant
2009-05-04, 10:29
I'm a little surprised nobody has mentioned this, but there is a mute function. Press the volume up and down buttons simultaneously. Or at least, I know this works on the Controller.

I think it has been mentioned, but anyway, I think that is only on the SBC, it doesn't work on the SB2 IR remote that I have.

IMGrant
2009-05-04, 10:31
Yes, I see this, too. Please open a ticket on bugs.slimdevices.com if there isn't one already.

Does it count as a bug, since it is a hack/plugin?

peterw
2009-05-04, 14:54
Does it count as a bug, since it is a hack/plugin?

I believe the "mixer muting" CLI command is documented, so this is probably a legitimate bug. If it weren't, you could still open an Enhancement Request ticket. :-)

-Peter

IMGrant
2009-05-05, 01:37
I've opened a bug: http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=11973

Also, bug 11217 (http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=11217) sounds similar, except it is for 7.3.2 and only refers to the CLI.

peterw
2009-05-05, 20:43
I've opened a bug: http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=11973

Also, bug 11217 (http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=11217) sounds similar, except it is for 7.3.2 and only refers to the CLI.

Great. I'm pretty sure these have the same root cause. I've been tinkering with another volume-related plugin lately (as well as experimenting with JP1 remote control reprogramming that could make my universal IR send the real mute IR code), and hope I'll have some time to look at this in the next week or two. Hopefully I can find a fix that Logitech will agree to apply to the official codebase.

-Peter

mooblie
2009-05-06, 04:51
I think it has been mentioned, but anyway, I think that is only on the SBC, it doesn't work on the SB2 IR remote that I have.

+1

I can't find any mute function on my SB2s. So I assume that goes for SB2/SB3/SBClassic - i.e.all the same hardware. It would be very useful.