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kefa
2005-05-19, 08:13
I am running SB2 (firmare 11), Slimserver v6.0.2 on Fedora Core 3. It was running fine as far as I can tell, but now playback seems to freeze periodically (every 45 mins or so). Running wirelessly but non-encrypted. All tracks FLAC and with native decoding within the SB2.

The song title continues to scroll and the user interface continues to work. Pausing then unpausing doesn't help, but fast forwarding or replying the track unfreezes it.

It's a strange one as I can't really reproduce the problem and can't find and hints in the debugging...I have d_remotestream, d_stream, d_stream_v, d_usage turned on.

Help - anyone else experienced this, or have any suggestions aprt from the obvious reboots!!!

dean
2005-05-19, 09:01
If you stop (press and hold PAUSE) and then play again, it starts up
again, right?
Does this happen with a specific song?

On May 19, 2005, at 8:13 AM, kefa wrote:

>
> I am running SB2 (firmare 11), Slimserver v6.0.2 on Fedora Core 3. It
> was running fine as far as I can tell, but now playback seems to
> freeze
> periodically (every 45 mins or so). Running wirelessly but
> non-encrypted. All tracks FLAC and with native decoding within the
> SB2.
>
> The song title continues to scroll and the user interface continues to
> work. Pausing then unpausing doesn't help, but fast forwarding or
> replying the track unfreezes it.
>
> It's a strange one as I can't really reproduce the problem and can't
> find and hints in the debugging...I have d_remotestream, d_stream,
> d_stream_v, d_usage turned on.
>
> Help - anyone else experienced this, or have any suggestions aprt from
> the obvious reboots!!!
>
>
> --
> kefa
>

Jeff52
2005-05-20, 04:02
I've got the same problem. This does not occur with a particular song or album, but seems to occur randomly. The display scrolls and everything appears normal except that the playlist simply halts. It only occurs at the end of a song and will resume playing the next track when I press forward on the remote.

Matt Alioto
2005-05-20, 07:31
>
> I've got the same problem. This does not occur with a particular song
or
> album, but seems to occur randomly. The display scrolls and everything
> appears normal except that the playlist simply halts. It only occurs
at
> the end of a song and will resume playing the next track when I press
> forward on the remote.
>

Count me in. SB2 not synced. Last night loaded a 2 CD playlist. First
song played fine but halts on 2nd song. Pressing forward on remote
advances to next song. Using wireless at about 60% signal. Version
6.0.2.

Matt


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GregD
2005-05-20, 08:03
>Count me in. SB2 not synced. Last night loaded a 2 CD playlist. First
>song played fine but halts on 2nd song. Pressing forward on remote

I also see the same issue - no particular track - hard to reproduce. Stop/Play or forward/backward fixes the problem.

I have the buffer display up on the SB2 - and it just sits at zero.

Wireless SB2, Slimserver 6.02, Wireless 60%+, Slimserver on XP. All music is Apple lossless. I usually have iTunes running on the server too.

sellars
2005-05-20, 10:09
Hi there,
same problem for me.
Not as much when I use a patch cable, but lots of problems with wireless. Sometimes tracks do not advance, but also sometimes sb2 just freezes, audio playback continues but no control with remote possible. I have to press the power button for 3 sec to reset it.
sb2, slimserver 6.02 and 6.1 nightlies. 90% wireless signal.
Win XP pro sp2, 512 mb ram, 1ghz Athlon.

kefa
2005-05-20, 18:47
someone from slim devices please help! I was 100% satisfied and suddenly this has started happening. wonder whether it is to do with some update...

kefa
2005-05-20, 18:49
does not seem to be related to any particular track. have rebooted absolutely evrything and it is still happpening, aaaargh!!! (wireless at 100%)

kdf
2005-05-21, 10:12
Quoting kefa <kefa.1pczhc (AT) no-mx (DOT) forums.slimdevices.com>:

>
> does not seem to be related to any particular track. have rebooted
> absolutely evrything and it is still happpening, aaaargh!!!

if you need immediate help from Slim, you are best served by contacting Slim
Devices either at support (AT) slimdevices (DOT) com or by the phone contacts listed on
teh website.

-kdf

Jeff52
2005-05-22, 04:28
I reported this as a bug with a reference to this discussion for details.

NealG
2005-05-23, 08:40
Just to add my 2c worth I am also experiencing this but on an SB1, hardwired to 6.02 on W2K.

Only started since I upgraded from 5.4.1 to use a SB2 in conjunction with the SB1. They are unsync'd

I work around it by pressing and holding the pwr button on the remote after pwr cycling the SB1

kefa
2005-05-29, 05:18
I reported this as a bug with a reference to this discussion for details.

do you know what the bugzilla reference number is for this bug?

I can't find any reference number for this problem and it is killing me. I suspect it is related to the v6.0.1 to v6.0.2 upgrade.

I seem to get dropouts after for playing for some time. These seem to come back even if I power cycle the squeezebox2. Haven't tried stop/start, but none of these 'workarounds' should really be necessary!

shake-the-disease
2005-05-30, 03:00
I've got a SB1 (wireless connected) and am suffering this problem of the playback constantly freezing. It has happened both between tracks and mid song. Even a rebooting the server and disconnecting/reconnecting the player doesn't solve the problem. Doing a "top" on the server during a freeze showed it was buring <5% CPU.

This problem seems to happen about 50% of the time I use it. Some days it refused to play more than a minute at a time and no amount of reboots will solve it. Other days it is flawless.

This problem seems to have only surfaced since upgrading from version 5 to version 6 of slimserver.

Ahhhhhh .... s.o..f.r.u.s.t.r.a.t.i.n.g........

Jeff52
2005-05-30, 04:32
kefa,

The bug number is 1595, see http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1595

I'm also using v. 6.02 and this problem is getting old. I use crossfade and every time I hear a bit of silence at the end of a track, I assume that the playlist has stalled out again.

Let's hope the guys can track this down.

oreillymj
2005-05-30, 05:09
All,

I've seen this issue with a recently purchased SB2.
My fix was to download the 6.1 nightly, but just to use the upgraded firmware V14 from the zip file.

I still have 1 or 2 problems where the SB2 is still on my Wireless network, but loses it's connection to the Slimserver.

It sits there with a message
Connecting to Slimserver.... (4)

Pressing LEFT gets me to the Connect to (IP of slimserver) menu and pressing RIGHT works after a few attempts.

This is a much better situation than Firmware V11 which would only stay playing for about 30mins.

mkosma
2005-05-30, 23:59
I'm seeing what appears to be the same behavior in 6.1.0 nightly build.

I just set up 6.1.0 (nightly build from 5/29/05) and updated Softsqueeze and the SB2 firmware.

NB I have the SB2 and Softsqueeze to run in synchronized mode.

Intermittently, apparently regardless of playlist and type of media, the player freezes up at the end of a song in the list.

This has happened both (1) when creating a playlist by clicking to select all tracks on an album, and playing in order, or (2) selecting all songs in a directory (e.g. all songs), creating a playlist, and selecting shuffle.

The softsqueeze display sits there showing the last song that played, although the display resets to show the track with zero elapsed time (i.e., as if the player is stopped at the start of the song).

The slimserver interface shows "play" illuminated, even after clicking Refresh. The song currently playing is identified as the one that stopped.

clicking "pause" then "play" in slimserver does nothing.

Clicking play in softsqueeze appears to restart the last song played, but sometimes it takes a click on next track or prev track to get it going again.

I'm now going to try turning off synchronization and see what happens, if there's any change or improvement in behavior.

mkosma
2005-05-31, 00:30
I just noticed something else: I have the SB2 set to crossfade, a setting that is not available on softsqueeze (at least, if it used to be, it's not there any more).

I switched off sync in the server and switched off crossfade on the sb2, and the problem has not occurred since doing so.

next step (not tonight though) is to sync the sb2 and softsqueeze but leave off crossfade, and see whether I can further isolate the problem.

rtitmuss
2005-06-06, 12:43
mkosma wrote:

>I just noticed something else: I have the SB2 set to crossfade, a
>setting that is not available on softsqueeze (at least, if it used to
>be, it's not there any more).
>
>
Crossfade is not available in Softsqueeze, and never has been. It is on
my todo list ...

>I switched off sync in the server and switched off crossfade on the
>sb2, and the problem has not occurred since doing so.
>
>next step (not tonight though) is to sync the sb2 and softsqueeze but
>leave off crossfade, and see whether I can further isolate the problem.
>
>
Did the playback work correctly with sync, and not crossfade? If this
still does not work I would recommend raising a bug at
http://bugs.slimdevices.com, and include the output of d_sync in the bug
report.

Regards,
Richard

martinfowler
2005-06-14, 17:07
I'm getting similar problems. It's very intermittent but I've had songs silently freezing pause/play no effect but advance to next song works. I've had choppy sound early on some songs. I've also had songs repeating themselves, songs just stopping and moving to the next song for no reason. All very frustrating.

I can't also say what change led to this. I'm currently running four slims: 2 old slimp3's (wired), 1 squeezebox (wireless) and 1 squeezebox 2 (wired). 3 are wired, 1 wireless. Server is a very elderly box running Debian Sarge. Problems started happening after I bought the Squeezebox 2 and upgraded the server to 6.0.2. (Just to make things worse that was about the same time I did the woody -> sarge upgrade for Debian.)

My server is certainly overloaded. Music will usually pause if I run a search. The server usually has 30-40% CPU and 25% of available memory. I also have a huge music library. I've noticed it spike to 95% cpu when I've had jitters at the begining of songs. My hypothesis was that server is just overloaded and I need to upgrade it (which I will when I get time). But reading this thread has made me wonder if there's something else going on.

glmason
2005-06-15, 05:57
I'm beginning to have very similar problems... I've had a SB2, Slimserver 6.0.2, and two compuers running Softsquezze for a mmonth and a half, other than getting over the learning curve and a few "dumb" mistakes on my part the system seemed to work very well for the first month or so, slowly creepying in now are very similar probelms as described above, coupled with the fact at the the display resently has started freezing up while the music plays fine... or the display gets behind the song, i.e. the song displayed has already played... It is funny because the system seems to degrade after time, but that is just a feeling.

Also the display setting on the softsqueeze and one computer will not persist... i.e. I make a setting and if I have to restart the softsqueeze the setting is changed back to default. (This does not happed on the other softsqueeze). The second computer is an Athlon 1.8Ghz cpu with 224MB RAM - a cheap compaq deal from BestBuy - probabally nneds to be upgrade someday soon. And sync'ing works better since following the instructions, but is still not 100%.

kevin
2005-06-15, 12:39
This thread is getting a little hard to follow... Is anyone reporting issues with the SB2 or SB1 interface now? If so could you please e-mail me at support@slimdevices.com and we can try to resolve them individually?

Jeff52
2005-06-16, 03:53
This thread is getting a little hard to follow... Is anyone reporting issues with the SB2 or SB1 interface now? If so could you please e-mail me at support@slimdevices.com and we can try to resolve them individually?

****************

I will send you an e-mail, however the bug reports involving the playlist issue (Bugs 1457 and 1595) have been discussed and detailed in this thread and still appear to be unsolved.

kefa
2005-06-21, 07:05
neither of the bugs listed above seem to address the issue I am experiencing. (they relate to playlist not advancing)

The problem I am experiencing is that songs seem to freeze mid-song or stutter as if the server is out of gas or the network connection is hokey. Checking the CPU or signal strength does not indicate any issues. All music is stored and played in native FLAC format over a wireless g network connection

- AMD CPU, 1900+, 512 MB,
- Redhat 2.6.10-1.766_FC3
- Perl v5.8.5
- SlimServer v6.0.3
- Squeezebox 2, Player Firmware Version: 11, MAC address: 00:04:20:05:a7:a0, Wireless Signal Strength: 100%

Music seems to play fine for a period of time with absolutely no problems, say an hour, before going choppy.

This is driving me up the wall - I have stopped using the SB for a month or so - it conked out embarrasingly at a party where I had nearly convinced a couple of other folk to buy a SB. Not so likely now!

Things were okay with v6.0.1 and that this may be related to upgrading from SS v6.0.1 (to 6.0.2 and then 6.0.3 which both exhibit the same issues) and the corresponding SB firmware upgrades. I am reluctant to upgrade to 6.1 due to the reports that this problem is not resolved and the other issues related to this release.

Will submit this as a help desk request to the support email address too.

LavaJoe
2005-06-21, 13:24
I experienced this as well. I was pretty psyched to get my SqueezeBox last week, but it did this (stopped playing at the start or end of a song in my case) a couple of times. Stability is definitely the highest priority for me, so this is ashame. I am returning the unit, and I am a bit bummed, as it seems cool in most respects (the other glitch I noticed were flickering pixels at different brightness levels - a problem noted in another thread).

Maybe when this freeze problem becomes known and fixed, and if a hardware or software fix is available for the pixel issue, I'll reconsider. For now, I am putting my old AudioTron back in service. Too bad, since I like to support open source products.

-Joe



neither of the bugs listed above seem to address the issue I am experiencing. (they relate to playlist not advancing)

The problem I am experiencing is that songs seem to freeze mid-song or stutter as if the server is out of gas or the network connection is hokey. Checking the CPU or signal strength does not indicate any issues. All music is stored and played in native FLAC format over a wireless g network connection

- AMD CPU, 1900+, 512 MB,
- Redhat 2.6.10-1.766_FC3
- Perl v5.8.5
- SlimServer v6.0.3
- Squeezebox 2, Player Firmware Version: 11, MAC address: 00:04:20:05:a7:a0, Wireless Signal Strength: 100%

Music seems to play fine for a period of time with absolutely no problems, say an hour, before going choppy.

This is driving me up the wall - I have stopped using the SB for a month or so - it conked out embarrasingly at a party where I had nearly convinced a couple of other folk to buy a SB. Not so likely now!

Things were okay with v6.0.1 and that this may be related to upgrading from SS v6.0.1 (to 6.0.2 and then 6.0.3 which both exhibit the same issues) and the corresponding SB firmware upgrades. I am reluctant to upgrade to 6.1 due to the reports that this problem is not resolved and the other issues related to this release.

Will submit this as a help desk request to the support email address too.

kevin
2005-06-21, 16:54
Well, with these last two messages, the symptoms sound more like network issues. (except for Joe's not eabout the display...we're still looking in to that)

We have seen when using some wireless access points, depending on how it's configured and if it overlaps with other networks within range, that packets can be lost for extended periods of time (500ms+) depending on the strength of the overlapping network.

We've also seen a couple of access points that just have serious latency issues, which are usually solved by making sure that the AP/router is at its latest firmware version... We have a list of things that you can check over wireless up here:
http://www.slimdevices.com/su_faq.html#troubleshooting-wireless

Of course, if you want to rule out wireless ethernet as being a possibility, you could also try wiring the SB2 (and the server) to see if that makes any difference in the usability. It could potentially be a system-related issue as well--but it's most commonly related to the network.

LavaJoe
2005-06-21, 22:09
Well, my unit was a wired-only version, so wireless issues can be ruled out in this case at least. And I do not suspect any general network issues, although it's hard to be 100% certain, of course.

-Joe



Well, with these last two messages, the symptoms sound more like network issues. (except for Joe's not eabout the display...we're still looking in to that)

We have seen when using some wireless access points, depending on how it's configured and if it overlaps with other networks within range, that packets can be lost for extended periods of time (500ms+) depending on the strength of the overlapping network.

We've also seen a couple of access points that just have serious latency issues, which are usually solved by making sure that the AP/router is at its latest firmware version... We have a list of things that you can check over wireless up here:
http://www.slimdevices.com/su_faq.html#troubleshooting-wireless

Of course, if you want to rule out wireless ethernet as being a possibility, you could also try wiring the SB2 (and the server) to see if that makes any difference in the usability. It could potentially be a system-related issue as well--but it's most commonly related to the network.

kefa
2005-06-23, 13:44
Well, with these last two messages, the symptoms sound more like network issues. (except for Joe's not eabout the display...we're still looking in to that)

We have seen when using some wireless access points, depending on how it's configured and if it overlaps with other networks within range, that packets can be lost for extended periods of time (500ms+) depending on the strength of the overlapping network.

We've also seen a couple of access points that just have serious latency issues, which are usually solved by making sure that the AP/router is at its latest firmware version... We have a list of things that you can check over wireless up here:
http://www.slimdevices.com/su_faq.html#troubleshooting-wireless

Of course, if you want to rule out wireless ethernet as being a possibility, you could also try wiring the SB2 (and the server) to see if that makes any difference in the usability. It could potentially be a system-related issue as well--but it's most commonly related to the network.

Okay, now I found the buffer fullness control I you could well be right. I tried unscrewing the aerial on the server to simulate a poor network connection and low and behold the music dies and starts stuttering once it gets to 0%.

To be honest I should have spotted this early on, but top marks to the excellent Slimserver support for helping me out on this one.

Now all I need to do is work out how I can boost the performance of my Wifi connection. The wierd thing is that performance seems massively variable. Some times the buffer climbs rapidly to 100% and sits there okay for several minutes - then all of a sudden it can drop down and hover near 0% before stuttering. I live in C. London and wonder whether this could be caused by people in my block of flats using Microwaves ovens or DECT phones. I have run some tests with my DECT phone, but nothing is particularly conclusive.

In the meantime, my wifi router has been elevated to better position away from pipes etc, reception seems better but by no means cured.

Has anyone else experienced similar problems? Are there any recommendations to boost wifi performance other than moving the tx and rx closer together?

edit: one thing I did experience however is that on occasion after the connection is lost and then picked up again, the SB does not carry on playing even though the buffer returns to 100%. In this instance a track change is required to boot it in to action - not sure whether this is an undocumented feature!

edit: another side effect is that I am using the digital outputs feeding in to an AV amp. The AV is doing the DAC and when it loses the lock on the digital signal (ie. when the buffer empties) it causes the whole DAC to barf, even if you are listening to audio on a separate input.

I thought I was going mad when I heard stuttering on the squeezebox, and then also stuttering on an iPod that was plugged in to a separate analogue input on the amp (I have found out this is still being processed by the DAC!).

phew [wipes brow] everything seems to be working and my faith in SB2 is fully restored.

Thx again to Slim Devices excellent tech support!

fuzzyT
2005-06-23, 13:56
kefa wrote:

> Has anyone else experienced similar problems? Are there any
> recommendations to boost wifi performance other than moving the tx and
> rx closer together?

Two strategies:
1) Increase the link bandwidth
-deal with channels, interference etc.
-use antenna reflector (see link)
-use high gain antennas
-upgrade both ends to 802.11g
2) Reduce link traffic
-transcode to lower bitrate for the affected SB

antenna reflector template:
<http://www.freeantennas.com/projects/template/>
many others available.

--
rt

"This is not a smoking gun for superfluidity. This is a cannon."

Kevin O. Lepard
2005-06-23, 14:50
This is a bit off topic, but I was wondering if anyone has placed
multiple antennas around their house and routed them back to a
central point as a way of providing WiFi coverage instead of putting
multiple access points around the house. It seems like this would
save you having to upgrade a bunch of access points whenever b goes
to g to n (or i or whatever is next).

Any thoughts on this? Anyone tried it?

Kevin
--
Kevin O. Lepard
kolepard (AT) charter (DOT) net

Happiness is being 100% Microsoft free.

seanadams
2005-06-23, 15:51
I can't think of an obvious way to make this work. I haven't tried it
but some possible issues come to mind:

1) What central point? Wireless chipsets generally support only 2
antennas in one location - there are technologies like phased array
now being used in access points, that switch between >2 directional
antennas to choose the best one, but I don't think you could just
take one of those access points and wire up, say, five external
antennas. Besides, putting all those antennas far apart would
probably totally confuse the radios on both ends of the link because
you'd have vastly different delays to each antenna.

2) Cable loss - I believe for 802.11 you actually lose more going
down the cable that you do once it's in the air. Unless the cable is
letting you overcome some major line-of-sight obstacle, you may
actually be losing performance by extending it long distances.

3) cost - why bother? Antennas can be made cheaply if you have the
time, but low-loss microwave cable with good connectors is not cheap
at all. A whole access point can be had for less than you might pay
just for the pigtail connector that goes from the card to the cable -
something you'd probably have to replace anyway when you upgrade the
access point.




On Jun 23, 2005, at 2:50 PM, Kevin O. Lepard wrote:

> This is a bit off topic, but I was wondering if anyone has placed
> multiple antennas around their house and routed them back to a
> central point as a way of providing WiFi coverage instead of
> putting multiple access points around the house. It seems like
> this would save you having to upgrade a bunch of access points
> whenever b goes to g to n (or i or whatever is next).
>
> Any thoughts on this? Anyone tried it?
>
> Kevin
> --
> Kevin O. Lepard
> kolepard (AT) charter (DOT) net
>
> Happiness is being 100% Microsoft free.
>

dean
2005-06-24, 14:28
My multiple antenna solution was to upgrade to a Belkin Pre-N router
that has three antennas built in. :)

I used to have 4 access points scattered around my house and still
didn't get complete coverage. Was able to turn them all off and plug
in this one device and got better coverage even from a corner of the
basement. YMMV. Highly recommended.

Vidur recently got the equivalent product from Netgear (actually, I
got it for him, since I couldn't use my laptop in his living room. :)
and it's been working well for him and it only cost about $70USD
after rebate. (WGM124NA).

Netgear also has a unit with 7 antennas now, WPN824), but I haven't
tried that one.


On Jun 23, 2005, at 2:50 PM, Kevin O. Lepard wrote:

> This is a bit off topic, but I was wondering if anyone has placed
> multiple antennas around their house and routed them back to a
> central point as a way of providing WiFi coverage instead of
> putting multiple access points around the house. It seems like
> this would save you having to upgrade a bunch of access points
> whenever b goes to g to n (or i or whatever is next).
>
> Any thoughts on this? Anyone tried it?
>
> Kevin
> --
> Kevin O. Lepard
> kolepard (AT) charter (DOT) net
>
> Happiness is being 100% Microsoft free.
>

Kevin O. Lepard
2005-06-25, 16:56
Thanks for the thoughts everyone. I work in a hospital and there are
antennas around with nothing more than what appears to be coax
running off to some central point. Without power supplies, etc, they
are quite unobtrusive and installing something with one wire and no
"ugly" box is more palatable aesthetically.

I find it tiresome to have to upgrade every piece of equipment when
new standards are released. Neither 802.11b or g has really lived up
to my desires and expectations. I was sort of hoping that there
would be a way to install antennas that were designed to work with
whatever is on the 2.4 Ghz frequence and run that to a central point
where I could have a device that managed whatever protocol was being
used, but it sounds like that's not practicable.

I'm a Mac guy and don't know how well pre-n technologies are
supported--if at all--on the Mac. I'm always a little leery of
non-standardized technologies that lock me into one vendor. (Yes,
I'm aware of that irony as an Apple product user.)

I was also hoping to avoid upgrading my 2 SB1s, neither of which I've
been able to get working reliably on a wireless network (though both
work flawlessly wired).

Kevin
--
Kevin O. Lepard
kolepard (AT) charter (DOT) net

Happiness is being 100% Microsoft free.

mkosma
2005-07-25, 19:52
Well, to jump back in on this thread:

I have a wired SB2 connected to a Netgear print server/bridge. However, the bridge also connects to the xbox which means the SB2 is basically powered off all the time.

I have been experiencing the same stuttering and freezing problems when running SoftSqueeze on the same computer that is running the slimserver. Don't know if that entirely rules out network problems but I would assume so. I also see the same problems running softsqueeze from work over an ssh connection.

Two problems continue to occur regularly. I'm now using 6.1 release and it's no better.

1. 1 or 2 minutes into a song, playback will freeze (silent) for about 1/4 second. So it freezes then continues.

2. At the end of a song, playback will stop. The only way to resume is to use fwd or prev track. Pause then resume doesn't do anything.

I'm happy to submit more detailed debug info if someone can give me a pointer as to what would be useful.