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stinkyjones
2005-04-28, 13:05
I've recently stumbled upon a couple of wilco shows recorded in 24 bit and converted to 24 bit flac.
I've tried to play them and get nothing but white noise. Decoded to 24 bit wav and still white noise.
Converting them to .cda reduces them to 16 bit--I'd really like to hear them in 24 bit--is this possible?

Thanks in advance,
--scott

squeezebox 1/5.4.1
www.stinkyjones.com

Josh Coalson
2005-04-28, 14:15
--- stinkyjones <stinkyjones.1o7t2n (AT) no-mx (DOT) forums.slimdevices.com>
wrote:
>
> I've recently stumbled upon a couple of wilco shows recorded in 24
> bit
> and converted to 24 bit flac.
> I've tried to play them and get nothing but white noise. Decoded to
> 24
> bit wav and still white noise.
> Converting them to .cda reduces them to 16 bit--I'd really like to
> hear
> them in 24 bit--is this possible?

I have tried a couple of 24-bit FLAC samples on the SB2 and they
worked... can you 'metaflac --list' one of them and post the
results?

Josh

vidurapparao
2005-04-28, 14:30
I suspect that the problem is specific to the SB1. We expect the output
of any of our transcoding helper applications to be 44.1KHz, 16-bit,
stereo PCM (the only PCM format supported by the SB1 hardware). I'm
guessing that flac is providing us with 24-bit samples, and SlimServer
doesn't yet scale or resample to the required format.

The relevant bugs for SB1 support of alternate sample sizes and sample
rates are:
http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=14
http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=624

--Vidur

stinkyjones
2005-04-28, 14:37
I have tried a couple of 24-bit FLAC samples on the SB2 and they
worked... can you 'metaflac --list' one of them and post the
results?
Josh

Thanks . . .
I guess it should also be worth adding additional details on my setup:
SB1/5.4.1 > digital out > NAD T762 w/ 192kHz/24bit D/A convertor

Metadata follows:
--------------------------------------------------
C:\Program Files\FLAC>metaflac --list track001.flac
METADATA block #0
type: 0 (STREAMINFO)
is last: false
length: 34
minumum blocksize: 4608 samples
maximum blocksize: 4608 samples
minimum framesize: 4574 bytes
maximum framesize: 27660 bytes
sample_rate: 48000 Hz
channels: 2
bits-per-sample: 24
total samples: 11341612
MD5 signature: 6b3e9844100c367e6fe3b39ae8807851
METADATA block #1
type: 3 (SEEKTABLE)
is last: false
length: 414
seek points: 23
point 0: sample_number=0, stream_offset=0, frame_samples=4608
point 1: sample_number=493056, stream_offset=1884115, frame_samples=4608
point 2: sample_number=986112, stream_offset=4189888, frame_samples=4608
point 3: sample_number=1479168, stream_offset=6314156, frame_samples=4608
point 4: sample_number=1972224, stream_offset=8432133, frame_samples=4608
point 5: sample_number=2465280, stream_offset=10321384, frame_samples=4608
point 6: sample_number=2958336, stream_offset=12341982, frame_samples=4608
point 7: sample_number=3451392, stream_offset=14364766, frame_samples=4608
point 8: sample_number=3944448, stream_offset=16611048, frame_samples=4608
point 9: sample_number=4437504, stream_offset=18628126, frame_samples=4608
point 10: sample_number=4930560, stream_offset=20708646, frame_samples=4608
point 11: sample_number=5423616, stream_offset=23156466, frame_samples=4608
point 12: sample_number=5916672, stream_offset=25454806, frame_samples=4608
point 13: sample_number=6409728, stream_offset=27837984, frame_samples=4608
point 14: sample_number=6902784, stream_offset=30406856, frame_samples=4608
point 15: sample_number=7395840, stream_offset=32537002, frame_samples=4608
point 16: sample_number=7888896, stream_offset=34802009, frame_samples=4608
point 17: sample_number=8381952, stream_offset=37442719, frame_samples=4608
point 18: sample_number=8875008, stream_offset=39961730, frame_samples=4608
point 19: sample_number=9368064, stream_offset=42270527, frame_samples=4608
point 20: sample_number=9861120, stream_offset=44554773, frame_samples=4608
point 21: sample_number=10354176, stream_offset=46955953, frame_samples=4608

point 22: sample_number=10847232, stream_offset=49056563, frame_samples=4608

METADATA block #2
type: 4 (VORBIS_COMMENT)
is last: false
length: 40
vendor string: reference libFLAC 1.1.0 20030126
comments: 0
METADATA block #3
type: 1 (PADDING)
is last: true
length: 4096

C:\Program Files\FLAC>

seanadams
2005-04-28, 14:57
> sample_rate: 48000 Hz

This is also not supported for PCM passthrough on SB1. You're going
to have to resample down to 44.1/16 to play these. Sorry. :(

stinkyjones
2005-04-28, 15:13
> sample_rate: 48000 Hz

This is also not supported for PCM passthrough on SB1. You're going
to have to resample down to 44.1/16 to play these. Sorry. :(

So, you're telling me it will cost me $249 to play my 48/24 files?
When are you guys going to start that SB1:SB2 trade-in program I've been hearing so much about? ;)
Thanks for the info. I've been a shameless promoter and a huge fan of your product for over a year now . . .
--Scott

www.stinkyjones.com

radish
2005-04-28, 16:52
So, you're telling me it will cost me $249 to play my 48/24 files?

I prefer to see it as you've finally got a valid excuse to get that SB2 you've been wanting ;)

ailean
2005-05-26, 23:38
Hi,
I've also had problems with 24bit >44khz FLAC files on my new SB2. I've not had a chance to dig thru and check the files as LOUD static coming out of my system just makes me jump for the next button. ;)

There are a mix of 24b/48khz and 24b/96khz tracks in my collection, I believe in theory the former should work okay with SB2 but I suspect they didn't.

It would be really nice if you can add a sample rate convertion to the file type convertion settings so that it automatically downsizes any files that are beyond the players specs.

vidurapparao
2005-05-27, 11:11
Josh Coalson tested SB2 FLAC support
(http://flac.sourceforge.net/links.html#review_squeezebox2) and was able
to play back 24-bit 48KHz tracks. We currently do not support (either
directly or with transcoding) 96KHz tracks. If you're having problems
with the former, please file a bug at http://bugs.slimdevices.com and
attach an example.

Thanks!
--Vidur

Josh Coalson
2005-05-27, 16:14
also, point me at the bug so I can follow along.

Josh




__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new Resources site
http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/

ailean
2005-05-28, 02:28
I've checked at least one that I remember and it's 24b 48khz, before I file a bug is this likely to be a bandwidth issue as I'm still running on 802.11b, my 11g router has been on backorder for a while... might arrive next week... maybe. :)

dean
2005-05-28, 07:22
Having a bandwidth issue shouldn't make the audio noisy, but it may
make it break up.

What's it sound like?

On May 28, 2005, at 2:28 AM, ailean wrote:

>
> I've checked at least one that I remember and it's 24b 48khz, before I
> file a bug is this likely to be a bandwidth issue as I'm still running
> on 802.11b, my 11g router has been on backorder for a while... might
> arrive next week... maybe. :)
>
>
> --
> ailean
>

ailean
2005-05-29, 02:05
I can hear the music in the background but it's covered by alot of loud squeaks and static. I tested several albums yesterday, all 48khz 24b except one that was 48khz 16b and they all had the same issue. Is it worth trying out the 6.1 build (using 6.0.3 - 3085 at the moment).

dnelson
2005-06-07, 09:20
I am wondering if there will be a patch to allow for 96KHz files to be played through slimdevice. All I get is white noise as well.

street_samurai
2005-06-07, 10:48
I can't help wondering as I read all these posts: exactly why do you have 24bit/96khz recordings taking up all that space on your hard drive? While I can (somewhat) understand having 24bit recordings (especially if you are doing some type of DSP processing before listening), I have no idea why you'd store your music in 96khz.

ABX listening testing has determined time and time again that -no one can tell the difference between a 96khz recording and a 48khz recording. In fact its -extremely- rare that anyone can tell the difference between a 16bit/44khz recording and a higher order recording.

The only reasons (I can think of) to have a higher order recording would be to either do editing or processing of the music (in which case you'd be better of using floating point 32bit anyway) or as an archival format (with the hope that some future sound reproduction technology will allow you to by-pass your ears... perhaps plug straight into your brain?).

Might be worth reading this if you think that you can hear a difference between (properly encoded) 16/44 and 24/96 or 24/48 recordings:

http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=1&t=9311

Just my $0.02.

Hope this isn't too off topic,

ss.

dean
2005-06-07, 11:25
Can you submit a bug on bugs.slimdevices.com and attach a sample file
that causes the problem?


On Jun 7, 2005, at 9:20 AM, dnelson wrote:

>
> I am wondering if there will be a patch to allow for 96KHz files to be
> played through slimdevice. All I get is white noise as well.
>
>
> --
> dnelson
>

ailean
2005-06-08, 14:23
I can't help wondering as I read all these posts: exactly why do you have 24bit/96khz recordings taking up all that space on your hard drive?

I use Flac to archive music in it's original form, most of the CD+ stuff is 16b/48k but there's several DTS-CD/SACD/DVDA sourced albums. From these I can then convert to any lower rate/lossy version.

As far as my ears go I can get away with a lot less! ;)
(normally ~220kps vbr mp3).

My hope for the SB2 was direct access to the original archive, or at least as much of it as it could support. It'd be nice if it at least skipped tracks that it couldn't play rather then the static.

By the way StreetSam.. cool game.

davel
2005-06-28, 11:12
Ailean wrote:
"I use Flac to archive music in it's original form, most of the CD+ stuff is 16b/48k but there's several DTS-CD/SACD/DVDA sourced albums. From these I can then convert to any lower rate/lossy version."

Could you share how you converted your SACD and DVDA CDs to FLAC? I am a relative newbie and I thought these files were encrypted. Did you make an analog to digital copy? Details would be appreciated.
Thanks

ailean
2005-06-28, 13:58
Ailean wrote:
Could you share how you converted your SACD and DVDA CDs to FLAC? I am a relative newbie and I thought these files were encrypted. Did you make an analog to digital copy? Details would be appreciated.
Thanks

Alas yes I've not heard of any direct method yet for reading SACD/DVDA data (SACD is also not native PCM so would require convertion).

I used a high grade Burr-Brown DAC with native SACD support linked to a good external ADC firewire adapter and tried to sample at the same rate as the original or at 24b 48khz (tested to be the most accurate setting of the ADC I used).

Still haven't got >16b 44Khz FLAC to play ok on the SB2, even with 6.1 and 13 firmware, but I'm still awaiting my new router before I sort out a proper bug report.

ailean
2005-06-29, 13:19
Just doing some messing about with setting after updating to 6.1b1 and 14 firmware.

If I set transcoding for FLAC files to WAV I can now playback my 16b 48Khz flac files, but they play at 44Khz so sound a little slowwwww. :)

24b 48Khz are pure static.

If I set transcoding back to FLAC->FLAC then 16b 48Khz play normal speed but constant pops and static over the top of the music. The Amp reports a 48Khz signal and I have checked COAX, Opti and Analog outputs, they feature the same effect.

There's a vague chance my new 11g router will turn up this week, if so I'll retest stuff and submit a bug remote if still the same (didn't want to submit a bug then go change half the hardware involved and all the network settings).

Michel Fombellida
2005-07-09, 15:15
Hi,

I just did a similar test, I extracted some stereo tracks from some DVD-A's in the form of 24/48 and 24/96 PCM WAV files. These WAV files plays just fine on the PC itself (with Media player or Adobe Audition, note with Audition I could confirm that they are indeed 24/48 and 24/96).

I know that 24/96 is not supported on the SB2 yet so I tried 24/48 and as mentionned above I also get some kind of white noise but I can indeed hear some music in the background. I also converted the files in FLAC and the result is the same.

I am running 6.1b1 with SB2 FW14.

Michel

ailean
2005-07-10, 01:28
Thanks Michel, nice to know I'm not going made. :)

I've now got my new 11g router and managed to get WEP working with the SB2 (had to leave my old router wide open to get the SB2 to connect!).

Retested and still got the same issues, will get a test file and sort out a bug report now.

Using 6.1b1 and fw14 was the same, will try again with b2 before submitting.

Cheers.

buzd
2005-07-10, 08:16
I understand the arguments about the differences b/n 24/48 and 24/96 not being audiably different, but I also have many archived sources in the 24/96 format that I would like to be able to access.

Barring a feature update to the SB2, how can I downsample (if that's the right term) the 96khz files to 48khz ??

TIA

Michel Fombellida
2005-07-11, 01:44
how can I downsample (if that's the right term) the 96khz files to 48khz ??

A tool like Adobe Audition could do that (there are probably others as well).

Michel

vidurapparao
2005-07-11, 11:38
ailean wrote:

>...
>Retested and still got the same issues, will get a test file and sort
>out a bug report now.
>
>
I'm not seeing any problems with the 24-bit 48KHz FLAC samples that I
have. If you do file a bug, please attach (or provide a link to) a
sample file.

Thanks,
--Vidur

vidurapparao
2005-07-11, 14:12
Also, take a look at bug 1508
(http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1508). It relates to a
problem that sounds similar to the one initially described in this
thread ("constant pops and static over the top of the music"), but isn't
specific to 24-bit 48KHz files. If the symptoms are indeed the same, I'd
be very curious to see a sample file and look for similarities between
the two FLAC files.

--Vidur

Michel Fombellida
2005-07-14, 11:42
Hi Vidur,

I am not sure my problem is related. BTW I have the same problem with both WAV and FLAC 24/48 files. I've open a bug report 1820.

Michel

vidurapparao
2005-07-14, 13:06
Michel,

You are playing to an unsynced SB2, is that correct? If so, could you
post to the bug report a debug log with --d_source of you playing the
WAV and the FLAC files?

Thanks,
--Vidur

Michel Fombellida
2005-07-14, 13:25
Hi Vidur,

Done. I first played the original WAV file and then the FLAC file. Note that when I listen to them, they don't sound exactly the same... but not nice anyway :-)

Michel

ailean
2005-07-22, 15:35
Just noticed some related fixes in the 6.1/fw15 release and ran some more tests, my 16b/48kz Flacs now seem to play okay! Thanks!

Tried one 24b/48kz track and it played better but would hickup every couple of seconds.

Noticed a bug about dbpoweramp flacs, all my CD rips are EAC with Flac.exe (several versions) but I think the > CD res ones are a mix of dbpoweramp and goldwave.

vidurapparao
2005-07-22, 16:17
Firmware 15 contains a fix for a specific problem that resulted in bad
playback of specific flac files, including some 24-bit/48KHz tracks and
some encoded by dbpoweramp. Bugs 1820
(http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1820) and 1508
(http://bugs.slimdevices.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1508) covered the cases
that were fixed. If you have issues with specific FLAC files, please
open a new bug.

Is it possible that the hiccup problem you're hearing is related to
bandwidth issues on your wireless network?

ailean
2005-07-23, 00:18
In theory no I don't think I should have bandwidth issues now, I've got my new 11g wireless router in place... although I've no idea what speed the sb2 is connecting at as the only indicator is a link quality %. :)

Is there some log somewhere that will say what datarate the SB2 is attaching at?

I meant to get a bug report in before now but we've had a very hot spell here and I've been avoiding the sweatbox (computer room :), the bug 1820 from Michel does sound exactly like what I was getting with pre fw15 thou.

This has fixed 90% of my >CD res tracks so I'll play about with re-encoding some of the remaining ones with different flac tools and see if there's a differance.

Michel Fombellida
2005-07-23, 00:38
Hi,

please see my last message in bug 1820, after installing FW15 I still have issues with some FLAC 24/48 files. I don't know what I should do, open a new bug or re-open 1820?

Note that I tried with the SB2 in wired and wireless mode and with 2 different external DAC's and always with the same results. On some 24/48 FLAC tracks the music is jerky/shipping, always at the same location in the tracks.

Michel

kdf
2005-07-23, 00:54
Quoting Michel Fombellida
<Michel.Fombellida.1sm3on (AT) no-mx (DOT) forums.slimdevices.com>:

>
> Hi,
>
> please see my last message in bug 1820, after installing FW15 I still
> have issues with some FLAC 24/48 files. I don't know what I should do,
> open a new bug or re-open 1820?
>
if it is still a related issue, please reopen the bug. you may be able to edit
the summary to be a better match if it is a more specific than 'not playing'
now.

-kdf

dean
2005-07-23, 05:51
Please open a new bug. If you have a file less than 10MB in size,
please add it to the bug, otherwise, please include contact/download
information so we can get a sample to test.

On Jul 23, 2005, at 12:38 AM, Michel Fombellida wrote:

>
> Hi,
>
> please see my last message in bug 1820, after installing FW15 I still
> have issues with some FLAC 24/48 files. I don't know what I should do,
> open a new bug or re-open 1820?
>
> Michel
>
>
> --
> Michel Fombellida
>

Michel Fombellida
2005-07-23, 07:17
OK done, it is bug 1859. Files are too big to attach to the bug report. Can I email them or upload some to a FTP site?

Michel