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View Full Version : Sonos Doesn't Have to be a Threat



jgallardo
2005-04-13, 12:30
After a good deal of research on music network tech for my home, the one-two punch delivered by SqueezeBox & SlimServer wins my vote, hands-down. Many of this forum's readers will share my value for these unique assets:

* Support for a large and growing range of file formats.
* An extremely extensible architecture, thanks to the Open Source server.
* Flexibility of control options, from remote to web browser to cell phone to PDA.

However, there is an important battle that Sonos clearly wins. SlimDevices, for all its fantastic innovation, fails the fundamental usability test: it's just not as easy as it could be to access a large music collection.

The Sonos remote, with its integrated LCD and scroll wheel, is the bomb. Critically, it makes accessing a large library easy. It looks great. It feels great in the hand. It works anywhere, with or without line-of-sight to your media players. Where I was an inch from pulling the trigger on a large SqueezeBox installation, I am now given pause; do I really want to use arrow buttons on an '80s-style remote to scroll through thousands of tracks on a little phosphorescent screen across the room?

I am a believer in SlimDevices, and I want to see them win this market over. Today's consumer marketplace is increasingly defined by the widespread adoption of luxuries formerly reserved for the rich. Great usability is no longer a luxury; it is a requirement for success among increasingly savvy consumers. Great usibility is SlimDevices' greatest threat.

The long-term solution is clear: make your product the easiest one to use, and aggressively market yourself as the such. Whether SlimDevices can produce a remote that competes with Sonos' quickly enough remains to be seen, but to the victor will the spoils go.

Perhaps, however, there is an immediate-term solution to bridge the gap. I'm a consumer, I've done the research, and I know what I want: SlimServer to deliver my music, SqueezeBox to play it, and the Sonos remote to access it. So, why doesn't some ingeneous developer come along and write a hack that will let me use a Sonos remote to control my SlimDevices system until SlimDevices can compete with that most sexy object of my affection?

-Jared Gallardo

fuzzyT
2005-04-13, 12:49
jgallardo wrote:

> The long-term solution is clear: make your product the easiest one to
> use, and aggressively market yourself as the such. Whether SlimDevices
> can produce a remote that competes with Sonos' quickly enough remains
> to be seen, but to the victor will the spoils go.

dude:
<http://slimdevices.com/dev_telcanto.html>

--rt

Mike Hanson
2005-04-13, 12:55
If all you want is sexy remote control, what about a PDA that browses SlimServer via WiFi? My current setup has a retired laptop sitting beside my stereo, but I'm keeping my eye open for a eBay deal on a WiFi PDA to replace it.

-=> Mike Hanson <=-

Jim Dibb
2005-04-13, 12:59
On 4/13/05, ron thigpen <ron (AT) fuzzsonic (DOT) com> wrote:
> jgallardo wrote:
>
> > The long-term solution is clear: make your product the easiest one to
> > use, and aggressively market yourself as the such. Whether SlimDevices
> > can produce a remote that competes with Sonos' quickly enough remains
> > to be seen, but to the victor will the spoils go.
>
> dude:
> <http://slimdevices.com/dev_telcanto.html>
>
> --rt

>From the pictures and description, and without the ability to try it
currently, it looks like an enhanced slimserver handheld skin. Is it
the fact that it's an app, rather than a browser skin that makes it
sellable?

JJZolx
2005-04-13, 13:00
After a good deal of research on music network tech for my home, the one-two punch delivered by SqueezeBox & SlimServer wins my vote, hands-down. Many of this forum's readers will share my value for these unique assets:

* Support for a large and growing range of file formats.
* An extremely extensible architecture, thanks to the Open Source server.
* Flexibility of control options, from remote to web browser to cell phone to PDA.

However, there is an important battle that Sonos clearly wins. SlimDevices, for all its fantastic innovation, fails the fundamental usability test: it's just not as easy as it could be to access a large music collection.
You realize, of course, that the Sonos controller alone costs 1.33x what the Squeezebox itself costs?

From a consumer standpoint the Squeezebox/SlimServer combo fails the usability test on more fronts than just device control. The whole idea of the multi-platform server that needs to be set up (and maintained) by Ma and Pa on their $399 WalMart-special computer is a major drawback. When the big guys like Sony and Technics enter this market with web-based music servers built into wireless $99 DVD players, I think you'll see many more devices like the Buffalo Media Player that someone else linked to today, with the server running on the playback device and connecting to a file store on the network.
________
Ducati Multistrada 1000s DS (http://www.cyclechaos.com/wiki/Ducati_Multistrada_1000s_DS)

Christian Pernegger
2005-04-13, 13:14
> The Sonos remote, with its integrated LCD and scroll wheel, is the
> bomb. Critically, it makes accessing a large library easy. It looks
> great. It feels great in the hand. It works anywhere, with or without
> line-of-sight to your media players.

I'd drop it, sit on it, spill tea over it or flat-out lose it within
two hours, but that's just me :) You have a point on the RF remote
being an advantage - I don't know if there are universal remotes for
RF, though. The question is, doesn't the interface for PDA / cell
phone give the same functionality?

> little phosphorescent screen across the room?

Have you seen the SB2 screen? It's jaw-dropping. Even I, with my 60%
vision, can guessimate what's on it across the room. In the end it's a
matter of concept - I can navigate the sb without even looking at the
display, I'm not sure if that would be possible with a graphical
remote.

To each his own - competition is good :)

C.

fuzzyT
2005-04-13, 13:38
Jim Dibb wrote:
>>dude:
>><http://slimdevices.com/dev_telcanto.html>
>
>>From the pictures and description, and without the ability to try it
> currently, it looks like an enhanced slimserver handheld skin. Is it
> the fact that it's an app, rather than a browser skin that makes it
> sellable?

not having bought or used it, i can't really say what makes it sellable.

it being an app, i'd expect it to have better general UI responsiveness
than the webUI on a PocketPC or PalmOS device. maybe someone who's used
it can comment on it.

the point of posting was just to let jgallardo know that there were
options for thick client, remote/handheld slimserver controllers.

--rt

Jim Dibb
2005-04-13, 13:50
> >><http://slimdevices.com/dev_telcanto.html>
> >
>
> not having bought or used it, i can't really say what makes it sellable.
>
> it being an app, i'd expect it to have better general UI responsiveness
> than the webUI on a PocketPC or PalmOS device. maybe someone who's used
> it can comment on it.
>
> the point of posting was just to let jgallardo know that there were
> options for thick client, remote/handheld slimserver controllers.
>

Understood. I happen to have a Dell Axim x50v that's just waiting for
something really cool to do. I'll give the trial version a try when I
get a chance and post a followup.

fuzzyT
2005-04-13, 13:57
Jim Dibb wrote:

> Understood. I happen to have a Dell Axim x50v that's just waiting for
> something really cool to do. I'll give the trial version a try when I
> get a chance and post a followup.

cool. i look forward to it.

--rt

Jim Dibb
2005-04-13, 14:03
On 4/13/05, ron thigpen <ron (AT) fuzzsonic (DOT) com> wrote:
> Jim Dibb wrote:
>
> > Understood. I happen to have a Dell Axim x50v that's just waiting for
> > something really cool to do. I'll give the trial version a try when I
> > get a chance and post a followup.
>
> cool. i look forward to it.
>
> --rt
>

Actually, I just looked at the price ($49.14) and I hope I don't like
it too much. Because while cheap compared to a new graphical remote,
it's expensive compared to the existing browser interface, and the
remote I already own.

Steve Baumgarten
2005-04-13, 14:03
> it being an app, i'd expect it to have better general UI responsiveness
> than the webUI on a PocketPC or PalmOS device. maybe someone who's used
> it can comment on it.

It's interesting, but the "Live Search" feature now makes Slimserver
nearly as responsive (if not quite a smooth) as an app. I've been using
it more and more. If it were combined with a 3-pane display like iTunes
or Winamp (which ripped off the iTunes interface for its media library),
and if support for smart (dynamic, based on a DB query) playlists were
added, I don't think you could say that anything else was easier to use
at that point.

You can see the beginnings of all this in the "Live Search" feature and
the "New Music" web page. I expect the UI will continue to evolve along
these lines, since there's no doubt that an application-like experience
is preferable to a web browsing experience when it comes to finding and
listening to music.

SBB





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Michael Haan
2005-04-13, 14:38
I started working on my own version of this using the CLI and the .NET Compact Framework.&nbsp; Unfortunately there was some command glaringly missing from the CLI (though not so glaring that I can remember it now)&nbsp;so I stopped.&nbsp; I wonder how much interest there'd be in an open source app like this.









&gt;From: ron thigpen &lt;ron (AT) fuzzsonic (DOT) com&gt;



&gt;Reply-To: Slim Devices Discussion &lt;discuss (AT) lists (DOT) slimdevices.com&gt;



&gt;To: Slim Devices Discussion &lt;discuss (AT) lists (DOT) slimdevices.com&gt;



&gt;Subject: Re: [slim] Sonos Doesn't Have to be a Threat



&gt;Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 16:38:40 -0400



&gt;



&gt;Jim Dibb wrote:



&gt;&gt;&gt;dude:



&gt;&gt;&gt;&lt;http://slimdevices.com/dev_telcanto.html&gt;



&gt;&gt;



&gt;&gt;&gt;From the pictures and description, and without the ability to try



&gt;&gt;&gt;it



&gt;&gt;currently, it looks like an enhanced slimserver handheld skin.&nbsp;&nbsp;Is



&gt;&gt;it



&gt;&gt;the fact that it's an app, rather than a browser skin that makes it



&gt;&gt;sellable?



&gt;



&gt;not having bought or used it, i can't really say what makes it



&gt;sellable.



&gt;



&gt;it being an app, i'd expect it to have better general UI



&gt;responsiveness than the webUI on a PocketPC or PalmOS device. maybe



&gt;someone who's used it can comment on it.



&gt;



&gt;the point of posting was just to let jgallardo know that there were



&gt;options for thick client, remote/handheld slimserver controllers.



&gt;



&gt;--rt



&gt;_______________________________________________



&gt;Discuss mailing list



&gt;Discuss (AT) lists (DOT) slimdevices.com



&gt;http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss

shaboyi
2005-04-13, 14:46
Has anyone used the Telcanto who could comment on its ease of use?

I ask because I often hear how the remote is not that useful if you
have 10K + songs. If the Telcanto is easy to use, has good wireless
connectivity, then that could be solution to this issue.

But what I suggest and what I use is playlists. They are easy access
via the remote and you can easily create them with the web interface.
So you could have 30 - 60 or more playlists which is easy scroll
through.

The other comment about smart playlists is solved by the musicmagic
plugin. It works great, is tunable and makes playlist creation
exceedingly simple. Sometimes it produces odd results, but overall it
is quite good and well worth the 20 some odd dollars it costs. On the
Windows platform, I have a nice way to have it start up a service, so
like the slimserver it is completely transparent to the user.

Another comment about the Sony's of the world: I understand that they
do have software expertise in things like the Playstation. But they
are not terribly competent in most other areas of computing and
software and I would not be terribly concerned that they are going to
come out with a slick media server that competes on the software side
(this may be a bit off, but try finding a software driver for a Vaio
on their website......).

As to the comment that a major drawback is that Ma and Pa need to
maintain a computer for this purpose, I suppose that is fairly
accurate, but may be not fatal. All SlimDevices would need to do is
roll-out a small server machine that can go into a A/V rack, preloaded
with SlimServer. Or maybe someone other vendor could do it. The
technology is there. I have put these in for people, and the
preferred 'architecture' is a dedicated machine in a basement or a
closet that also doubles as a file/backup server. Nor does it have to
be some killer machine. We recycle old PIIIs and add a hard drive.
This setup works trouble free for months with no intervention by the
user. Occasionally the machine needs to be rebooted, but that is
about it. Ma and Pa can do that. Maybe SlimDevices should have
suggested setups and tips.

One of which would be: don't put SlimServer on a wireless machine, if
at all possible....that is trouble!

On 4/13/05, Steve Baumgarten <sbb (AT) panix (DOT) com> wrote:
> > it being an app, i'd expect it to have better general UI responsiveness
> > than the webUI on a PocketPC or PalmOS device. maybe someone who's used
> > it can comment on it.
>
> It's interesting, but the "Live Search" feature now makes Slimserver
> nearly as responsive (if not quite a smooth) as an app. I've been using
> it more and more. If it were combined with a 3-pane display like iTunes
> or Winamp (which ripped off the iTunes interface for its media library),
> and if support for smart (dynamic, based on a DB query) playlists were
> added, I don't think you could say that anything else was easier to use
> at that point.
>
> You can see the beginnings of all this in the "Live Search" feature and
> the "New Music" web page. I expect the UI will continue to evolve along
> these lines, since there's no doubt that an application-like experience
> is preferable to a web browsing experience when it comes to finding and
> listening to music.
>
> SBB
>
> Visit our website at http://www.ubs.com
>
> This message contains confidential information and is intended only
> for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you
> should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please
> notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this
> e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system.
>
> E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free
> as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed,
> arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. The sender therefore
> does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents
> of this message which arise as a result of e-mail transmission. If
> verification is required please request a hard-copy version. This
> message is provided for informational purposes and should not be
> construed as a solicitation or offer to buy or sell any securities or
> related financial instruments.
>
>

Jeff Coffler
2005-04-13, 15:38
From: Michael Haan:

>I started working on my own version of this using the CLI and the
>.NET Compact Framework. Unfortunately there was some command
>glaringly missing from the CLI (though not so glaring that I can remember
>it now) so I stopped. I wonder how much interest there'd be in an open
>source app like this.

I've been working with Fred Thomas on an automation solution for the AMX
NetLinx system (a home automation and A/V controller) for the SlimServer.
I've worked on the NetLinx side, he's worked on the SlimServer side.

The AMX NetLinx module and a suitable 2-way panel currently performs:

1) Full display of current and next song (song, artist, album, genre),
2) Song number in the queue, time into the song,
3) Display of cover art for the currently playing song,
4) Full state of the player (playing, stopped, paused, etc), random mode,
shuffle mode, and sleep mode (i.e. if in sleep mode, how much time remaining
before the player turns off).

This is all on one screen. It's a very nice, very rich interface. While
the display on the Squeezebox looks nice, it's not nearly this rich!

Also allowed:

1) Changing of various modes (shuffle, random, etc), and full player
control,
2) Full browsing support. You can browse artists, albums, genres,
playlists, etc.
3) When browsing: Search at any level. Hit search and a popup keyboard pops
up. Enter a few letters, click "Done", and you're instantly showed a list
of items matching your search.
4) Any list displayed (for browsing or search results) show 8 results
(limited by display size; larger displays can show more), not 1. You scroll
up and down by page.

All of this is done via the CLI. One TCP/IP connection from the NetLinx
controller to the SlimServer will control hundreds of separate players.

It's hard to imagine that you need something further in the CLI. I'd
suggest you take another look; a whole lot of stuff has been added. And if
you do find something mission, mention what you need here (or if you prefer,
implement it yourself and submit a patch).

-- Jeff

Michael Haan
2005-04-13, 15:46
Its entirely possible the missing command was added after I broke-off development.&nbsp; I'll pick it back-up tonight and see how it goes.









&gt;From: Jeff Coffler &lt;jeff-list-slimdiscuss (AT) taltos (DOT) com&gt;



&gt;Reply-To: Slim Devices Discussion &lt;discuss (AT) lists (DOT) slimdevices.com&gt;



&gt;To: "Slim Devices Discussion" &lt;discuss (AT) lists (DOT) slimdevices.com&gt;



&gt;Subject: Re: [slim] Sonos Doesn't Have to be a Threat



&gt;Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 15:38:46 -0700



&gt;



&gt;From: Michael Haan:



&gt;



&gt;&gt;I started working on my own version of this using the CLI and the



&gt;&gt;.NET Compact Framework.&nbsp;&nbsp;Unfortunately there was some command



&gt;&gt;glaringly missing from the CLI (though not so glaring that I can



&gt;&gt;remember



&gt;&gt;it now) so I stopped.&nbsp;&nbsp;I wonder how much interest there'd be in an



&gt;&gt;open



&gt;&gt;source app like this.



&gt;



&gt;I've been working with Fred Thomas on an automation solution for the



&gt;AMX NetLinx system (a home automation and A/V controller) for the



&gt;SlimServer. I've worked on the NetLinx side, he's worked on the



&gt;SlimServer side.



&gt;



&gt;The AMX NetLinx module and a suitable 2-way panel currently



&gt;performs:



&gt;



&gt;1) Full display of current and next song (song, artist, album,



&gt;genre),



&gt;2) Song number in the queue, time into the song,



&gt;3) Display of cover art for the currently playing song,



&gt;4) Full state of the player (playing, stopped, paused, etc), random



&gt;mode, shuffle mode, and sleep mode (i.e. if in sleep mode, how much



&gt;time remaining before the player turns off).



&gt;



&gt;This is all on one screen.&nbsp;&nbsp;It's a very nice, very rich interface.&nbsp;&nbsp;



&gt;While the display on the Squeezebox looks nice, it's not nearly this



&gt;rich!



&gt;



&gt;Also allowed:



&gt;



&gt;1) Changing of various modes (shuffle, random, etc), and full player



&gt;control,



&gt;2) Full browsing support.&nbsp;&nbsp;You can browse artists, albums, genres,



&gt;playlists, etc.



&gt;3) When browsing: Search at any level.&nbsp;&nbsp;Hit search and a popup



&gt;keyboard pops up.&nbsp;&nbsp;Enter a few letters, click "Done", and you're



&gt;instantly showed a list of items matching your search.



&gt;4) Any list displayed (for browsing or search results) show 8



&gt;results (limited by display size; larger displays can show more),



&gt;not 1.&nbsp;&nbsp;You scroll up and down by page.



&gt;



&gt;All of this is done via the CLI.&nbsp;&nbsp;One TCP/IP connection from the



&gt;NetLinx controller to the SlimServer will control hundreds of



&gt;separate players.



&gt;



&gt;It's hard to imagine that you need something further in the CLI.&nbsp;&nbsp;



&gt;I'd suggest you take another look; a whole lot of stuff has been



&gt;added.&nbsp;&nbsp;And if you do find something mission, mention what you need



&gt;here (or if you prefer, implement it yourself and submit a patch).



&gt;



&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;-- Jeff _______________________________________________



&gt;Discuss mailing list



&gt;Discuss (AT) lists (DOT) slimdevices.com



&gt;http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/discuss

PAUL WILLIAMSON
2005-04-13, 16:34
>>> sbb (AT) panix (DOT) com 04/13/05 5:03 PM >>>
> It's interesting, but the "Live Search" feature now makes
> Slimserver nearly as responsive (if not quite a smooth) as an
> app. I've been using it more and more. If it were combined with
> a 3-pane display like iTunes or Winamp (which ripped off the
> iTunes interface for its media library), and if support for smart
> (dynamic, based on a DB query) playlists were added, I don't think
> you could say that anything else was easier to use at that point.

Seeing as how WinAmp has been owned by Apple for over 5 years now,
it's not surprising the interface looks a little bit like iTunes. Or
vice versa.

Paul

bklaas
2005-04-13, 17:00
ummm...pretty sure it's AOL that bought Winamp, not Apple. Corporate
goons either way, I guess...

PAUL WILLIAMSON wrote:
>>>>sbb (AT) panix (DOT) com 04/13/05 5:03 PM >>>
>>
>>It's interesting, but the "Live Search" feature now makes
>>Slimserver nearly as responsive (if not quite a smooth) as an
>>app. I've been using it more and more. If it were combined with
>>a 3-pane display like iTunes or Winamp (which ripped off the
>>iTunes interface for its media library), and if support for smart
>>(dynamic, based on a DB query) playlists were added, I don't think
>>you could say that anything else was easier to use at that point.
>
>
> Seeing as how WinAmp has been owned by Apple for over 5 years now,
> it's not surprising the interface looks a little bit like iTunes. Or
> vice versa.
>
> Paul
>
>

PAUL WILLIAMSON
2005-04-13, 17:05
Good point. It was AOL... But I think they're in bed together.

Paul

>>> bklaas (AT) occamnetworks (DOT) com 04/13/05 8:00 PM >>>
ummm...pretty sure it's AOL that bought Winamp, not Apple. Corporate
goons either way, I guess...

PAUL WILLIAMSON wrote:
>>>>sbb (AT) panix (DOT) com 04/13/05 5:03 PM >>>
>>
>>It's interesting, but the "Live Search" feature now makes
>>Slimserver nearly as responsive (if not quite a smooth) as an
>>app. I've been using it more and more. If it were combined with
>>a 3-pane display like iTunes or Winamp (which ripped off the
>>iTunes interface for its media library), and if support for smart
>>(dynamic, based on a DB query) playlists were added, I don't think
>>you could say that anything else was easier to use at that point.
>
>
> Seeing as how WinAmp has been owned by Apple for over 5 years now,
> it's not surprising the interface looks a little bit like iTunes.
Or
> vice versa.
>
> Paul
>
>

mkozlows
2005-04-13, 17:19
there's no doubt that an application-like experience
is preferable to a web browsing experience when it comes to finding and
listening to music.

Says you. I find SlimServer to be the single best media UI I've ever used -- better than iTunes, better than WMP, better than foobar2000, better than WinAmp -- and while it's possible that a pure desktop UI might be better, I certainly don't take it as a given.

Jim Dibb
2005-04-13, 19:04
OK, so I've got the TelCanto trial on my Dell Axim X50v. I'm running
slimserver 5.4.

First thing, when I installed it, I got the note saying "This app was
written for an earlier version of Windows. It may not display
correctly" assuming 2002. The Dell is 2003.

The library display seems completely broken. Only the folders view
shows anything, then they only break down to directory level, not
showing the individual songs. The 'genres', 'albums' and 'artists'
views are all empty. the alphabet tabs are across the top, but
nothing is displayed.

When I got into search, it allowed me to put search criteria in, but
didn't turn up anything, and I couldn't get out without a soft reset,
it was pretty much locked up.

Playlists display only shows the list names, they don't expand into
the song titles.

It picked up the playlist that I had earlier and started the controls
to play it worked ok (play, pause, stop).

The poweroff, under Tools->squeezebox control, always says "power
off", doesn't change to "power on". Hitting play turns the squeezebox
on and plays. The 'info' button does seem to work.

Overall, I'm having a very poor trial experience so far. Maybe I'll
read the README and see if there's any clues, but overall it looks
just VERY minimally functional. If I find something to change my
mind, I'll let you all know.

kdf
2005-04-13, 19:18
Quoting Jim Dibb <jimdibb (AT) gmail (DOT) com>:

> OK, so I've got the TelCanto trial on my Dell Axim X50v. I'm running
> slimserver 5.4.
>
> First thing, when I installed it, I got the note saying "This app was
> written for an earlier version of Windows. It may not display
> correctly" assuming 2002. The Dell is 2003.
>
> The library display seems completely broken. Only the folders view
> shows anything, then they only break down to directory level, not
> showing the individual songs. The 'genres', 'albums' and 'artists'
> views are all empty. the alphabet tabs are across the top, but
> nothing is displayed.

I would assume that telcanto, unless its a release from the last couple weeks is
not built for SlimServer 6.0+. This represents a major change for slimserver
(hence the major version jump from 5 to 6). You may want to be using your
trial period with SlimServer 5.4.1.

-kdf

Jim Dibb
2005-04-13, 19:29
See first paragraph, I am running 5.4.1
Now, the axim is pretty new, and as I said runs Windows Mobile 2003
SE. That could be part of the problem too.
It seems that it MUST run better than it's running for me, but I just
can't see it.

On 4/13/05, kdf <slim-mail (AT) deane-freeman (DOT) com> wrote:
> Quoting Jim Dibb <jimdibb (AT) gmail (DOT) com>:
>
> > OK, so I've got the TelCanto trial on my Dell Axim X50v. I'm running
> > slimserver 5.4.
> >
> > First thing, when I installed it, I got the note saying "This app was
> > written for an earlier version of Windows. It may not display
> > correctly" assuming 2002. The Dell is 2003.
> >
> > The library display seems completely broken. Only the folders view
> > shows anything, then they only break down to directory level, not
> > showing the individual songs. The 'genres', 'albums' and 'artists'
> > views are all empty. the alphabet tabs are across the top, but
> > nothing is displayed.
>
> I would assume that telcanto, unless its a release from the last couple weeks is
> not built for SlimServer 6.0+. This represents a major change for slimserver
> (hence the major version jump from 5 to 6). You may want to be using your
> trial period with SlimServer 5.4.1.
>
> -kdf
>
>
>

mherger
2005-04-13, 22:43
On Wed, 13 Apr 2005 22:29:08 -0400, Jim Dibb <jimdibb (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote:

> See first paragraph, I am running 5.4.1

They have updated TelCanto to run with 6.0 - maybe you have to download an
older release?


> Now, the axim is pretty new, and as I said runs Windows Mobile 2003
> SE. That could be part of the problem too.
> It seems that it MUST run better than it's running for me, but I just
> can't see it.
>
> On 4/13/05, kdf <slim-mail (AT) deane-freeman (DOT) com> wrote:
>> Quoting Jim Dibb <jimdibb (AT) gmail (DOT) com>:
>>
>> > OK, so I've got the TelCanto trial on my Dell Axim X50v. I'm running
>> > slimserver 5.4.
>> >
>> > First thing, when I installed it, I got the note saying "This app was
>> > written for an earlier version of Windows. It may not display
>> > correctly" assuming 2002. The Dell is 2003.
>> >
>> > The library display seems completely broken. Only the folders view
>> > shows anything, then they only break down to directory level, not
>> > showing the individual songs. The 'genres', 'albums' and 'artists'
>> > views are all empty. the alphabet tabs are across the top, but
>> > nothing is displayed.
>>
>> I would assume that telcanto, unless its a release from the last couple
>> weeks is
>> not built for SlimServer 6.0+. This represents a major change for
>> slimserver
>> (hence the major version jump from 5 to 6). You may want to be using
>> your
>> trial period with SlimServer 5.4.1.
>>
>> -kdf
>>
>>
>>

mherger
2005-04-13, 22:45
On Wed, 13 Apr 2005 17:03:34 -0400, Steve Baumgarten <sbb (AT) panix (DOT) com> wrote:

>> it being an app, i'd expect it to have better general UI responsiveness
>> than the webUI on a PocketPC or PalmOS device. maybe someone who's used
>> it can comment on it.
>
> It's interesting, but the "Live Search" feature now makes Slimserver
> nearly as responsive (if not quite a smooth) as an app. I've been using

The problem is the size: on handheld computers you won't find a browser
capable of doing the live search. The method used is only available on
recent browsers (MSIE6, FF1, Opera 8). I doubt this has been implemented
in PocketIE.

--

Michael

-----------------------------------------------------------
Help translate SlimServer by using the
StringEditor Plugin (http://www.herger.net/slim/)

John L Fjellstad
2005-04-14, 00:34
mkozlows <mkozlows.1ngcnb (AT) no-mx (DOT) forums.slimdevices.com> writes:

> Says you. I find SlimServer to be the single best media UI I've ever
> used -- better than iTunes, better than WMP, better than foobar2000,
> better than WinAmp -- and while it's possible that a pure desktop UI
> might be better, I certainly don't take it as a given.

I find the slimserver UI to be pretty clunky. Haven't tried the new
one, though. The best I've tried is amarok, at this point. Haven't
tried foobar2000 or iTunes, though.

--
John L. Fjellstad
web: http://www.fjellstad.org/ Quis custodiet ipsos custodes

netim3
2005-04-14, 00:38
I use Telcanto on a IPAQ 3715 to control SlimServer - it's terrific. The fee is per-user, so if I want to have a couple more wifi controllers, I don't pay again.

Because it's an app not a browser it's a great deal faster for browsing albums/genres/artists and expanding to see underlying tracks. It seems to make SlimServer respond much more quickly (than via a browser) for initiating playback, pausing etc. It displays artwork nicely. I'm waiting for a DAB USB tuner so that I can add playlists with digital-only stations, but I can already access internet-radio.

It supports multiple SBs (very useful) & multiple SlimServers (probably not necessary), making it easy to synchronize devices or play different music into different rooms. Planning to have 6+ SB2's around my new house.

As a side benefit, it also has Nevo remote control on it, so I can work all my IR controlled equipment also. My wife also likes the fact that our contacts, email & calendar also synch to the IPAQ - now all I need is an IPAQ that can act as my home phone, perhaps by leveraging Vonage or similar.

There's only one 'skin', so colour scheme is what you get.

ackcheng
2005-04-14, 01:09
The Philips new remote control RC9800i will give a facelift!

-----Original Message-----
From: discuss-bounces (AT) lists (DOT) slimdevices.com
[mailto:discuss-bounces (AT) lists (DOT) slimdevices.com] On Behalf Of Ben Klaas
Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2005 8:00 AM
To: Slim Devices Discussion
Subject: Re: [slim] Sonos Doesn't Have to be a Threat

ummm...pretty sure it's AOL that bought Winamp, not Apple. Corporate
goons either way, I guess...

PAUL WILLIAMSON wrote:
>>>>sbb (AT) panix (DOT) com 04/13/05 5:03 PM >>>
>>
>>It's interesting, but the "Live Search" feature now makes
>>Slimserver nearly as responsive (if not quite a smooth) as an
>>app. I've been using it more and more. If it were combined with
>>a 3-pane display like iTunes or Winamp (which ripped off the
>>iTunes interface for its media library), and if support for smart
>>(dynamic, based on a DB query) playlists were added, I don't think
>>you could say that anything else was easier to use at that point.
>
>
> Seeing as how WinAmp has been owned by Apple for over 5 years now,
> it's not surprising the interface looks a little bit like iTunes. Or
> vice versa.
>
> Paul
>
>

mattybain
2005-04-14, 02:50
I currently use Telcanto with my new SB2 and slimserver 6.01 on a ASUSMyPAL 620 and it works like a dream. Very responsive and a much better experience than using the handheld slimserver interface.

Just a shame that my PDA doesn't really support the CF WiFi card and drains the batteries in about 2 hours. Still a perfect excuse to upgrade to the new MyPAl 730.

Simon Still
2005-04-14, 02:56
""The other comment about smart playlists is solved by the musicmagic
plugin. . On the
Windows platform, I have a nice way to have it start up a service, so
like the slimserver it is completely transparent to the user."

I'm really impressed with MusicMagic so far - it's getting me
listening to a lot of things i hadnt heard in a long while and the
mixes work much better than i expected.

However, i havent worked out how to run it as a service - since my
server gets used for TV/.internet and more MM tends to get shut down
and then it can be a sod to get it working with Slimserver again.
What's your solution?

Jim Dibb
2005-04-14, 08:10
On 4/14/05, Michael Herger <slim (AT) herger (DOT) net> wrote:
> On Wed, 13 Apr 2005 22:29:08 -0400, Jim Dibb <jimdibb (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote:
>
> > See first paragraph, I am running 5.4.1
>
> They have updated TelCanto to run with 6.0 - maybe you have to download an
> older release?
>

When I went to look for an older release, I *think* I figured out what
I did wrong, but I can't test it right now. Further down on the
download page it mentions the .NET Compact framework, which I didn't
install. It was too far down the screen (and out of the window) for
me to catch. I've gotten it installed now and wil try the whole thing
out again tonight.

If there are any people from TelGen reading this thread, a suggestion
would be to put a link to the .NET Compact Framework section in the
TelCanto download section, as one does depend on the other. Similar
to the hint they have about the xmlTelCanto folder for those running
5.4.1. I figured any dependency would be in that section.
Thanks for all your other suggestions.

Steven Spies
2005-04-14, 09:11
I know it has been mentioned before but an app like this running on
the PSP would be absolutely fantastic! Just in case here is the link
to the specs http://www.us.playstation.com/consoles.aspx?id=4

On 4/14/05, netim3 <netim3.1ngx0n (AT) no-mx (DOT) forums.slimdevices.com> wrote:
>
> I use Telcanto on a IPAQ 3715 to control SlimServer - it's terrific. The
> fee is per-user, so if I want to have a couple more wifi controllers, I
> don't pay again.
>
> Because it's an app not a browser it's a great deal faster for browsing
> albums/genres/artists and expanding to see underlying tracks. It seems
> to make SlimServer respond much more quickly (than via a browser) for
> initiating playback, pausing etc. It displays artwork nicely. I'm
> waiting for a DAB USB tuner so that I can add playlists with
> digital-only stations, but I can already access internet-radio.
>
> It supports multiple SBs (very useful) & multiple SlimServers (probably
> not necessary), making it easy to synchronize devices or play different
> music into different rooms. Planning to have 6+ SB2's around my new
> house.
>
> As a side benefit, it also has Nevo remote control on it, so I can work
> all my IR controlled equipment also. My wife also likes the fact that
> our contacts, email & calendar also synch to the IPAQ - now all I need
> is an IPAQ that can act as my home phone, perhaps by leveraging Vonage
> or similar.
>
> There's only one 'skin', so colour scheme is what you get.
>
> --
> netim3
>

shaboyi
2005-04-14, 15:13
I use a program called 'apptoservice' available here:

http://www.basta.com/ProdAppToService.htm

While apptoservice is pretty straight forward to setup, getting them
all to work together takes a little trial and error, but eventually
works well and consistently. Couple of tips I have found useful (but
don't work all the time - it is a frustrating and I posted earlier
about this, to no satisfactory resolution).

I assume slimserver is running as a service.

- Do the song analysis in mm first in regular mode
- When setting up mm, do it when it is running as a service. For
example, if you turn on the api in plain application mode, when you go
to run it as a service, the setting is turned off.
- When setting up the mm service, set it to interact with the desktop.
After it is working well, you can turn this off. Always check to
make sure the api service is on.
- SlimServer tips - mm must be running first before mm is setup in SS.
Make sure that mm is selected on the Server Settings > Plugin page;
make sure that on the main Server Settings page 'use music magic' is
checked. I found that at first SS may not recognize mm. So get mm
working as a service going first with api service active. Then
restart SS via Computer Management > Services. You may have to do
this more than once.

- The real test is to see if everything works on boot, which you may
have to do a couple of times. Once everything is set, turn off
'interact with desktop' for mm service (otherwise it opens on every
boot and if you close, the service is stopped).

It does work reliably once the tinkering is done. I would be
interested how you make out (I have done this 3 or 4 times - so it
does work).

On 4/14/05, Simon Still <b33k34 (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote:
> ""The other comment about smart playlists is solved by the musicmagic
> plugin. . On the
> Windows platform, I have a nice way to have it start up a service, so
> like the slimserver it is completely transparent to the user."
>
> I'm really impressed with MusicMagic so far - it's getting me
> listening to a lot of things i hadnt heard in a long while and the
> mixes work much better than i expected.
>
> However, i havent worked out how to run it as a service - since my
> server gets used for TV/.internet and more MM tends to get shut down
> and then it can be a sod to get it working with Slimserver again.
> What's your solution?
>

Jim Dibb
2005-04-14, 19:00
This bit with the older xml files did the trick.

I played with it some and now it seems quite responsive and pretty cool.
Thanks for the tip.

On 4/14/05, Jim Dibb <jimdibb (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote:
> On 4/14/05, Malcolm Green <malcolm (AT) telgen (DOT) co.uk> wrote:
> > Jim,
> >
> > For 5.4.1 you need the version which
> > was included in 1.2.0 which can be downloaded from
> > http://www.telcanto.com/assets/download/xmltelcanto-5.4.x.zip. This problem
> > has only just been discovered, and we'll be posting a note about it on the
> > website. I think this will explain why the library display didn't work
> > correctly.
>
> OK, I'll try this
>

vs804017
2005-08-30, 12:36
Perhaps, however, there is an immediate-term solution to bridge the gap. I'm a consumer, I've done the research, and I know what I want: SlimServer to deliver my music, SqueezeBox to play it, and the Sonos remote to access it. So, why doesn't some ingeneous developer come along and write a hack that will let me use a Sonos remote to control my SlimDevices system until SlimDevices can compete with that most sexy object of my affection?

-Jared Gallardo

So nobody has responded to this challenge yet! Who can step up and write a hack that would allow the use of a SONOS remote with the SlimServer - this would be killer.

The other option - obviously less interesting - is to come up with a SONOS "clone" skin that would replace the HANDHELD skin that comes with SlimServer - that would be cool too.

I currently use an HP pocket pc with wifi and it works reasonably well with SlimServer Handheld skin (a little clunky) and with Telcanto which I purchased too. But something better is certainly in order. If there was a better handheld skin - something that would work in landscape mode it might even be a cool trick to install the handheld in-wall instead of an entire slimserver (which is what many have done).

So anybody up to the SONOS-to-SLIMSERVER hack??

mherger
2005-08-30, 13:24
> So nobody has responded to this challenge yet! Who can step up and
> write a hack that would allow the use of a SONOS remote with the
> SlimServer - this would be killer.

Please send me a Sonos system so I can give it a try :-)

--

Michael

-----------------------------------------------------------
Help translate SlimServer by using the
StringEditor Plugin (http://www.herger.net/slim/)

shermoid
2005-08-30, 18:12
I currently use an HP pocket pc with wifi and it works reasonably well with SlimServer Handheld skin (a little clunky) and with Telcanto which I purchased too. But something better is certainly in order. If there was a better handheld skin - something that would work in landscape mode it might even be a cool trick to install the handheld in-wall instead of an entire slimserver (which is what many have done).

yet one more option would be to offer a multi-tiered way to remotely access your SB2. this might help SB2's entrance into the mainstream market (if those are slimdevices plans!). i like vs804017's use of a hand-held device an awful lot, and am waiting for nokia to release the 770. being just a bit of a linux/unix zealot, i couldn't use a pda or a hand held that runs windows. :-) i'm sure the HP faithfully does the deed, if only they would have used HPUX instead of windows ... and the nokia uses debian linux as its embedded O/S ...

but, that's not the point. if slimdevices could package the SB2 with any of a variety of remote access devices, that might help out a lot towards ease of use for the consumer. the current remote would be standard, and from there you could upgrade to a pda, nokia 770, a hacked SONOS remote, etc. if the remote access boxes were supported by slimdevices (perhaps pre-loaded with software, or configured somehow), that might level out the feature-for-feature comparison with SONOS, or the next device that has an even COOLER access method! which you then have to have ... !

best,
-sherm

Craig, James (IT)
2005-08-31, 01:56
> Please send me a Sonos system so I can give it a try :-)

You beat me to it!


James
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