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View Full Version : kinks in the SB2?



Mike Hartley
2005-03-29, 20:23
Sean,
I'm about to buy my wireless set up for SB2 now. Probably FLAC, definitely lossless, via Xandros (Debian based) Linux distro. Any other hardware to stay away from, or more importantly that is really stable?

Mike

-----Original Message-----
From: Sean Adams [mailto:sadams (AT) slimdevices (DOT) com]
Sent: Tue 3/29/2005 9:49 PM
To: Slim Devices Discussion
Cc:
Subject: Re: [slim] kinks in the SB2?





> First, mine goes blank for no apparent reason sometimes. Blank screen.

Does it keep playing audio? Can you control it from the web interface?

> Also, I'm trying to compare the digital out into my DAC to the
> internal DAC
> but the digital out can't stay locked (I think that's it... my receiver
> keeps reseting like it used to between PCM and MP3).

That shouldn't be. Which receiver?

> Plus, it won't connect to my wireless network--though the tech support
> seems
> to think it's my access point.

Which access point? We tested numerous configs with several dozen
access points. So far we've had only one issue that I know of, with a
specific recent hardware rev of the Linksys BEFW11S4 - we're looking
into it.

seanadams
2005-03-29, 22:18
Rev 4 of BEFW11S4 is the only one we've heard of a problem with. Rev 2
of the BEFW11S4 is among the routers in our test suite here and is
known to work. I think Vidur picked up a rev 4 at Fry's today for
testing.

At home I use a Netgear WGT624. The firmware which originally came on
it was buggy (nothing to do with Squeezebox - the router just randomly
crashed from time to time). After updating the firmware though, it has
been running really solidly - I would definitely recommend it.

The Airports are not bad, but they don't have a web interface which can
be an awful pain sometimes, and they lack some of the more advanced
settings. If you need the printer sharing though, they're a good deal.



On Mar 29, 2005, at 7:23 PM, Mike Hartley wrote:

> Sean,
> I'm about to buy my wireless set up for SB2 now. Probably FLAC,
> definitely lossless, via Xandros (Debian based) Linux distro. Any
> other hardware to stay away from, or more importantly that is really
> stable?
>
> Mike
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sean Adams [mailto:sadams (AT) slimdevices (DOT) com]
> Sent: Tue 3/29/2005 9:49 PM
> To: Slim Devices Discussion
> Cc:
> Subject: [slim] kinks in the SB2?
>
>
>
>
>
> > First, mine goes blank for no apparent reason sometimes. Blank
> screen.
>
> Does it keep playing audio? Can you control it from the web interface?
>
> > Also, I'm trying to compare the digital out into my DAC to the
> > internal DAC
> > but the digital out can't stay locked (I think that's it... my
> receiver
> > keeps reseting like it used to between PCM and MP3).
>
> That shouldn't be. Which receiver?
>
> > Plus, it won't connect to my wireless network--though the tech
> support
> > seems
> > to think it's my access point.
>
> Which access point? We tested numerous configs with several dozen
> access points. So far we've had only one issue that I know of, with a
> specific recent hardware rev of the Linksys BEFW11S4 - we're looking
> into it.
>
>

Phil Karn
2005-03-30, 02:38
I got my wireless SB2 today. I had to bring up v6 of the server to use
it, and after a few glitches it sort of started to work.

But there are still some glitches. Whenever I play a FLAC or OGG file, I
hear distorted, 'crunchy-sounding' audio for a few seconds until the
play buffer fully loads to 100%. Then playback continues normally. The
problem does *not* occur with MP3 files.

I'm not totally sure, but it sounds much like the CPU in the SB2 is
unable to handle a sustained burst of network activity without falling
behind servicing the DAC. That's just my intuitive guess.

This is over 802.11g from a WRT54G base station only a few feet away.
Signal strength is 100. Server software is v6.0.0 trunk; firmware
version is 8.

Phil

Phil Karn
2005-03-30, 02:49
Additional comment: the "crunching" during startup does *not* occur with
the original SB running off the same v6.0.0 server. The problem happens
only with the SB2, and only when playing FLAC or OGG, not MP3. Haven't
tried other file types.

Phil

Mike Hartley
2005-03-30, 06:54
TY
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sean Adams" <sadams (AT) slimdevices (DOT) com>
To: "Slim Devices Discussion" <discuss (AT) lists (DOT) slimdevices.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 12:18 AM
Subject: [slim] kinks in the SB2?


>
>
> Rev 4 of BEFW11S4 is the only one we've heard of a problem with. Rev 2
> of the BEFW11S4 is among the routers in our test suite here and is
> known to work. I think Vidur picked up a rev 4 at Fry's today for
> testing.
>
> At home I use a Netgear WGT624. The firmware which originally came on
> it was buggy (nothing to do with Squeezebox - the router just randomly
> crashed from time to time). After updating the firmware though, it has
> been running really solidly - I would definitely recommend it.
>
> The Airports are not bad, but they don't have a web interface which can
> be an awful pain sometimes, and they lack some of the more advanced
> settings. If you need the printer sharing though, they're a good deal.
>
>
>
> On Mar 29, 2005, at 7:23 PM, Mike Hartley wrote:
>
> > Sean,
> > I'm about to buy my wireless set up for SB2 now. Probably FLAC,
> > definitely lossless, via Xandros (Debian based) Linux distro. Any
> > other hardware to stay away from, or more importantly that is really
> > stable?
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Sean Adams [mailto:sadams (AT) slimdevices (DOT) com]
> > Sent: Tue 3/29/2005 9:49 PM
> > To: Slim Devices Discussion
> > Cc:
> > Subject: [slim] kinks in the SB2?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > First, mine goes blank for no apparent reason sometimes. Blank
> > screen.
> >
> > Does it keep playing audio? Can you control it from the web interface?
> >
> > > Also, I'm trying to compare the digital out into my DAC to the
> > > internal DAC
> > > but the digital out can't stay locked (I think that's it... my
> > receiver
> > > keeps reseting like it used to between PCM and MP3).
> >
> > That shouldn't be. Which receiver?
> >
> > > Plus, it won't connect to my wireless network--though the tech
> > support
> > > seems
> > > to think it's my access point.
> >
> > Which access point? We tested numerous configs with several dozen
> > access points. So far we've had only one issue that I know of, with a
> > specific recent hardware rev of the Linksys BEFW11S4 - we're looking
> > into it.
> >
> >

Mike Reeve
2005-03-30, 07:26
Julian Alden-Salter <julian.alden-salter@...> writes:

> When I was setting up my squeezebox2 I had to remove my
> behringer ultramatch (mk1) from between the sb2 and my dac.
> With the ultramatch (a jitter buster amongst other things) in the loop
> I got no sound and the emphasis light
> on both the dac and the behringer flashed randomly.

I was surprised to read this as when I connected my new Squeebox 2 to
first an Apogee Big Ben and then a Genesis Digital Lens
both locked instantly (the Big Ben in narrow mode) and showed exactly 44.10.

As I happen to have a Behringer Ultramatch Pro
(i.e. the MK2 24/96 version of the Ultramatch) lying around
I just connected my Squeezebox 2 to it and it locks instantly/cleanly ...

If I recall correctly the Ultramatch MK1 used the old
CS8402 SPDIF receiver (whereas the MK2 uses the newer 8412/8414 series),
I wonder which receiver the Rotel RSX1056 uses ...

Mike

seanadams
2005-03-30, 07:48
>
> I wonder which receiver the Rotel RSX1056 uses ...

I don't think it's a timing / jitter issue. More likely a compatibility
issue or error in the channel status data or something like that.

I've been procrastinating upgrading my home receiver to a RSX1056 so I
can fiddle around with driving its RS232 interface through the
geekport... I guess this is my excuse. :)

Mike Reeve
2005-03-30, 08:07
Sean Adams <sadams@...> writes:

> I don't think it's a timing / jitter issue. More likely a compatibility
> issue or error in the channel status data or something like that.

I think that also, and the CS84xx receivers interpret the channel status bytes,
that's why I was wondering whether anything could be deduced from
the specs/bugs of the CS8402 used in the original Ultramatch
vs the newer version used in the Ultramatch Pro ...?

vidurapparao
2005-03-30, 12:44
Phil Karn wrote:

> Additional comment: the "crunching" during startup does *not* occur
> with the original SB running off the same v6.0.0 server. The problem
> happens only with the SB2, and only when playing FLAC or OGG, not MP3.
> Haven't tried other file types.


Phil,

I'm not able to reproduce the problem with FLAC playback on either wired
or wireless SB2, but I do hear something similar to what you're
describing when trying to play SlimTris while FLAC is playing. SlimTris
is triggering a large number of display updates - handling the large
amount of network traffic seems to effect FLAC playback. I'm still
trying to track down exactly what's happening on the box.

Thanks for the report.
--Vidur

Jeff Moore
2005-03-30, 13:50
2005-03-30-09:48:22 Sean Adams:
> I've been procrastinating upgrading my home receiver to a RSX1056 so I
> can fiddle around with driving its RS232 interface through the
> geekport... I guess this is my excuse. :)

My apologies for another post related to the disease of audiophilia
rather than directly about Slimstuff (soon's my shiny silver SB2 ships,
I'll get dragged back on topic) but that won't stop me. I haven't heard
this Rotel, although Rotels through the years have sounded swell and
this one may sound absolutely fabulous, so this isn't to be interpreted
as anything negative about the RSX1056, and it'd be swell for you to end
up having the proper hardware to debug this digital-lock problem,
but... when I hear of someone shopping for an AVR in that price range,
I have to recommend giving a listen to the Arcams (AVR-250 and AVR-300)
before making a final decision.

I have an AVR-250, and it offers more than a hint of the spooky
subtle-detail reproduction from digital sources provided by its fancy
sibling the AV8. There's something about the way current Arcams do
D/A that I like.

That having been said, I can report on the downside: my AVR-250
occasionally (maybe a couple of times a week) gets a little "confused",
for example after switching from a digital input to the built-in tuner
no sound comes out, but switching back and forth once more fixes it. I
never had this problem with a faithful Denon, but the musicality of the
Arcam totally makes it worth putting up with a few minor quirks, at
least to me.

The Arcams can be controlled via an RS-232 port after the fashion of all
that fancy-pants installer-integrated stuff; is that the RS-232
functionality you were referring to? The codes are toward the end of
the manual:

http://www.arcam.co.uk/downloads/DiVA%20AVR250%20handbook.pdf

Anyhow, sorry for the hijack, and back to your regularly-scheduled
program. For a hint of the on-topic, my AVR-250 is getting along swell
fed by an SB1 and we'll see Real Soon (I hope) how it gets on with the
miracle of the SB2.

vidurapparao
2005-03-31, 12:46
Vidur Apparao wrote:

> Phil Karn wrote:
>
>> Additional comment: the "crunching" during startup does *not* occur
>> with the original SB running off the same v6.0.0 server. The problem
>> happens only with the SB2, and only when playing FLAC or OGG, not
>> MP3. Haven't tried other file types.
>
>
>
> Phil,
>
> I'm not able to reproduce the problem with FLAC playback on either
> wired or wireless SB2, but I do hear something similar to what you're
> describing when trying to play SlimTris while FLAC is playing.
> SlimTris is triggering a large number of display updates - handling
> the large amount of network traffic seems to effect FLAC playback. I'm
> still trying to track down exactly what's happening on the box.


Phil,

I'm still not able to reproduce the exact problem that you're seeing,
but I did find the problem that I describe above with SlimTris. We had
inadvertantly left some debugging flags on that resulted in worse
performance in certain circumstances - FLAC playback combined with a
large number of client->server network transactions was one. I can
believe that specific network characteristics triggers this case during
FLAC startup on some networks but not others.

I've checked in a firmware fix and regenerated the nightly builds. If
possible, could you download the latest nightly
(http://www.slimdevices.com/downloads/nightly/latest/6.0.1/) and force a
firmware upgrade? To do this, install the nightly, connect your SB2 to
the server, and press & hold brightness till the firmware upgrade
starts. Let me know if this changes anything.

Thanks for your help,
--Vidur

seanadams
2005-03-31, 13:32
Just got my new toy and took it apart. Very nice machine.

The S/PDIF receiver (and transmitter) chip is the AK4114:

http://www.asahi-kasei.co.jp/akm/en/product/ak4114/ak4114.html


Kevin tried several coax cables of various length and quality but could
not reproduce any loss-of-sync problem or obvious data errors. Still
testing though.


On Mar 30, 2005, at 6:26 AM, Mike Reeve wrote:

> Julian Alden-Salter <julian.alden-salter@...> writes:
>
>> When I was setting up my squeezebox2 I had to remove my
>> behringer ultramatch (mk1) from between the sb2 and my dac.
>> With the ultramatch (a jitter buster amongst other things) in the loop
>> I got no sound and the emphasis light
>> on both the dac and the behringer flashed randomly.
>
> I was surprised to read this as when I connected my new Squeebox 2 to
> first an Apogee Big Ben and then a Genesis Digital Lens
> both locked instantly (the Big Ben in narrow mode) and showed exactly
> 44.10.
>
> As I happen to have a Behringer Ultramatch Pro
> (i.e. the MK2 24/96 version of the Ultramatch) lying around
> I just connected my Squeezebox 2 to it and it locks instantly/cleanly
> ...
>
> If I recall correctly the Ultramatch MK1 used the old
> CS8402 SPDIF receiver (whereas the MK2 uses the newer 8412/8414
> series),
> I wonder which receiver the Rotel RSX1056 uses ...
>
> Mike
>
>
>
>