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Karel Tromp
2005-03-11, 05:26
Hello,

I am just interested what devices you all have used behind the SB1 (or
2). On this moment I use a SB1 which is connected to a Behringer
Ultramatch PRO via the digital coax which is converting the signal to
24 bits/96Khz.

After that the signal enters my Marantz SR5400 OSE AV-receiver where
the 96Khz/24bits stream is handled.

Now the SB2 is being introduced all specs are different now. Witch the
enhanced DAC onboard there is maybe no need for enhancing the signal
and use the DAC of the SR5400 by connecting it directly to an analog
input.

I am using the Behring for upgrading en cleaning the signal (jitter etc.)

So, I am very curious how you all solved this :-) !!

Thanks,
K,

Rod Savard
2005-03-14, 10:39
Karel Tromp wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I am just interested what devices you all have used behind the SB1 (or
> 2). On this moment I use a SB1 which is connected to a Behringer
> Ultramatch PRO via the digital coax which is converting the signal to
> 24 bits/96Khz.

What good is upconverting the signal?

BTW my SqueezeboxG is connected to my Sony STR-DA4 ES receiver via
digital optical.

-Rod

Karel Tromp
2005-03-15, 11:59
The signal is being upsampled to 24bits/96kHz for a better resolution
of the output. The Behringer is also reclocking the signal and
cleaning it from the control-bits (CRC, copy etc.).

All together the soundstream is rinsed this way. Normally I would not
expect any difference because, heh, the input is only 16bits and
44.1Khz, but after I listened to several albums I had to admit that
there was quite some improvement. Cello's sounded more as, now...
cello's, more natural and better defined. Vocals sounded better too
than with a 1:1 connection.

Karel


On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 09:39:50 -0800, Rod Savard <rodney (AT) savard (DOT) org> wrote:
> Karel Tromp wrote:
> > Hello,
> >
> > I am just interested what devices you all have used behind the SB1 (or
> > 2). On this moment I use a SB1 which is connected to a Behringer
> > Ultramatch PRO via the digital coax which is converting the signal to
> > 24 bits/96Khz.
>
> What good is upconverting the signal?
>
> BTW my SqueezeboxG is connected to my Sony STR-DA4 ES receiver via
> digital optical.
>
> -Rod
>
>

Marc Sherman
2005-03-15, 12:03
Karel Tromp wrote:
> The signal is being upsampled to 24bits/96kHz for a better resolution
> of the output. The Behringer is also reclocking the signal and
> cleaning it from the control-bits (CRC, copy etc.).
>
> All together the soundstream is rinsed this way. Normally I would not
> expect any difference because, heh, the input is only 16bits and
> 44.1Khz, but after I listened to several albums I had to admit that
> there was quite some improvement. Cello's sounded more as, now...
> cello's, more natural and better defined. Vocals sounded better too
> than with a 1:1 connection.

Phil, I think that's your cue... :)

- Marc

Karel Tromp
2005-03-15, 15:33
As told by several posts in this forum the DAC of the SB2 is a
significant better one than the one used in the original SB. It can be
most suprising what a seperate DAC (f.e. a behringer or an apogee) can
do with the signal from the SB1 even without upsampling it. I bought
the Behringer after I have read an article about it on:
www.hifi.nl/recensies.php?id=2141 (dutch). The Apogee Mini-DAC is also
named as an excellent DAC for signals from CD, PC (yes) and other
digital devices.

So if you want an anwser, yes!

Karel



On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 22:46:15 +0100, JMK VTX <kennedy (AT) vtxnet (DOT) ch> wrote:
> Erh, eh... Perhaps I'm missing something (literally) as I go from the SB via
> the phono plugs into a Krell PAM III pre-amp, Krell KSA-50 combo. As the
> preamp does not have digital in, should I be thinking of getting a converter
> and doing a conversion to analog outside the SB?
>
> - John
> --
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.7.3 - Release Date: 3/15/2005
>
>

Richard Elen
2005-03-15, 15:50
Karel Tromp wrote:
> ...The Apogee Mini-DAC is also
> named as an excellent DAC for signals from CD, PC (yes) and other
> digital devices.

I used to work for Apogee, so I'm biased (which way?), but their stuff
is very good indeed.
They often have specials of one sort or another, at:
http://www.apogeedigital.com/products/specials.php

The Mini-DAC is nice because it's relatively inexpensive, small and
portable but their rack-mount devices are excellent too.

--Richard E

Karel Tromp
2005-03-15, 16:23
It looks very nice, what do you use for powering this?

Karel


On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 18:22:27 -0500, Chris May <chris (AT) concatmedia (DOT) com> wrote:
> I hooked a SB1 to a tube pre-amp, and WOW what a difference!
>
> I was using a VAC pre-amp, their cheap one - about $2500ish. This was
> using theinternal DAC and analog out on the SB. I cannot wait to hear
> what the SB2 will sound like!
>
> http://www.vac-amps.com/Auricle_Preamplifier.htm
>
> Chris
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: discuss-bounces (AT) lists (DOT) slimdevices.com
> [mailto:discuss-bounces (AT) lists (DOT) slimdevices.com] On Behalf Of Richard Elen
> Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2005 5:51 PM
> To: Slim Devices Discussion
> Subject: [slim] What do you use behind the SB?
>
> Karel Tromp wrote:
> > ...The Apogee Mini-DAC is also
> > named as an excellent DAC for signals from CD, PC (yes) and other
> > digital devices.
>
> I used to work for Apogee, so I'm biased (which way?), but their stuff
> is very good indeed.
> They often have specials of one sort or another, at:
> http://www.apogeedigital.com/products/specials.php
>
> The Mini-DAC is nice because it's relatively inexpensive, small and
> portable but their rack-mount devices are excellent too.
>
> --Richard E
>
>

Karel Tromp
2005-03-15, 16:45
Now I am using the build-in DAC from Marantz SR5400 OSE AV receiver.
It accepts the 24b/96Khz signal from the Behringer and delivers an
amazing clear sound. But... the Behringer can do a bit of DAC
converting by itself (through assymetric XLR connectors). When I can
get a pair of cables for connecting these to an anloge input of the
Marantz I will do some hearing-tests. Still I am curious how the
analoge output of the SB2 will sound related to the ones I use now....

Karel


On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 18:41:02 -0500, Chris May <chris (AT) concatmedia (DOT) com> wrote:
> Trying to remember.... Was at a friends place. I think it was an older
> model NAD AV reciever, probably comperable to their 763...
>
> CM
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: discuss-bounces (AT) lists (DOT) slimdevices.com
> [mailto:discuss-bounces (AT) lists (DOT) slimdevices.com] On Behalf Of Karel Tromp
> Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2005 6:23 PM
> To: Slim Devices Discussion
> Subject: [slim] What do you use behind the SB?
>
> It looks very nice, what do you use for powering this?
>
> Karel
>
> On Tue, 15 Mar 2005 18:22:27 -0500, Chris May <chris (AT) concatmedia (DOT) com>
> wrote:
> > I hooked a SB1 to a tube pre-amp, and WOW what a difference!
> >
> > I was using a VAC pre-amp, their cheap one - about $2500ish. This was
> > using theinternal DAC and analog out on the SB. I cannot wait to hear
>
> > what the SB2 will sound like!
> >
> > http://www.vac-amps.com/Auricle_Preamplifier.htm
> >
> > Chris
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: discuss-bounces (AT) lists (DOT) slimdevices.com
> > [mailto:discuss-bounces (AT) lists (DOT) slimdevices.com] On Behalf Of Richard
> > Elen
> > Sent: Tuesday, March 15, 2005 5:51 PM
> > To: Slim Devices Discussion
> > Subject: [slim] What do you use behind the SB?
> >
> > Karel Tromp wrote:
> > > ...The Apogee Mini-DAC is also
> > > named as an excellent DAC for signals from CD, PC (yes) and other
> > > digital devices.
> >
> > I used to work for Apogee, so I'm biased (which way?), but their stuff
>
> > is very good indeed. They often have specials of one sort or another,
> > at: http://www.apogeedigital.com/products/specials.php
> >
> > The Mini-DAC is nice because it's relatively inexpensive, small and
> > portable but their rack-mount devices are excellent too.
> >
> > --Richard E
> >
> >

Richard Elen
2005-03-15, 17:19
Karel Tromp wrote:
> till I am curious how the
> analoge output of the SB2 will sound related to the ones I use now....

On paper, ie the DAC chip in use, the SB2 DAC should significantly
out-perform the one in the SB1. I never liked the analog outs of the SB1
and I'm expecting the one on the SB2 indeed to be better - not that I'll
be using them.

However, assuming the chip is made by one of a small number of decent
manufacturers - Crystal, Burr-Brown (which is now part of TI, isn't
it?), AKM... it really doesn't matter much what it is: you choose them
on design, price and availability criteria and know they'll work quite
nicely, especially if you tweak the reference design a bit. The main
things that make a DAC sound good include stable, clean power supplies
without RF on them, good board design and grounding, generally
multi-layer boards are helpful, extremely low-jitter clocking,
optionally FIFO buffering, and high-quality analog design with plenty of
distance from the digits. Some of these are quite hard to achieve in a
small digital box. Or a large one for that matter, which is why it's
hard to get on-board DACs to sound that good in a PC - outboard units
can be much better, though you can do those badly too.

--Richard E