Slim Devices SB2 disappointment & SB for sale.

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  • Timothy Knight Nelson

    Slim Devices SB2 disappointment & SB for sale.

    I guess I should have taken all of my Squeezebox problems as a sign and
    returned it right after I received it (just over a month ago after a
    2-3 week backorder). Had I done this, I could now get a Squeezebox 2
    that would have addressed all of my issues. Live and learn.

    -Tim

    > Hello Timothy,
    >
    > Unfortunately we do not have any trade in programs for our products.
    > It is always difficult to make a smooth transition to a new product,
    > and as you said, you have to draw the line somewhere. And in fairness
    > to other customers, we need to be consistent with this policy. Please
    > let me know if you have any other questions.
    >
    > Kind Regards,
    >
    > Brian Helmle
    >
    > --
    > Brian Helmle
    > Sales and Shipping
    > Slim Devices
    > brian (AT) slimdevices (DOT) com
    > (650) 210-9400
    >
    > From: Timothy Knight Nelson <tknelson (AT) slac (DOT) stanford.edu>
    >> Date: March 9, 2005 10:57:41 AM PST
    >> To: sadams (AT) slimdevices (DOT) com
    >> Subject: Trade-in of recent Squeezebox for Squeezebox2 ?
    >>
    >> Dear Sean,
    >>
    >> First off, thanks for making a great product. Despite my
    >> frustrations, I think you have a winner here and I wish you all the
    >> best. My story in brief...
    >>
    >> I received a Wireless Squeezebox in late January with the intention
    >> of ripping my entire CD library to Apple Lossless (several hundred
    >> CDs) on a dedicated disk and serving them across my wireless network
    >> to my stereo. Along the way, I discovered that trying to stream
    >> Apple Lossless across an 802.11b network (even with great reception)
    >> results in a lot of dropouts, even with almost no other traffic on
    >> the network. So, after much cursing at having paid for the wireless
    >> version, I started drilling holes and installing network cables.
    >> After placing the Squeezebox on the wired network, things are
    >> smoother but I still have occasional dropouts, especially when there
    >> is other activity on the network. Although there has been some
    >> cursing at not having 10/100 in the Squeezebox (like pretty much
    >> every other cheap networked item on the market in the past few years)
    >> I decided I could live with it: I really like it on the whole, and
    >> there is no other option that comes close.
    >>
    >> So, naturally I am dismayed to surf to your site today and discover
    >> the dawn of the Squeezebox 2. If I were serving out mp3, I wouldn't
    >> care less, but the faster connectivity of the new unit is exactly
    >> what I need for this application. Clearly, if it were within 30 days
    >> of my ship-date (Jan 20) this thing would be back in the mail to you
    >> already: but I am now just beyond that horizon. I understand you
    >> have to draw the line somewhere, but I'd be willing to pay some kind
    >> of upgrade or trade-in fee to get a V2 unit, since this one will
    >> continue to be a source of frustration here.
    >>
    >> So, the question: is there any chance you can offer a trade-in or
    >> upgrade on recently purchased (e.g. since Jan. 1?) Squeezeboxes? I
    >> believe it is in your long-term best interest to take care of
    >> customers that are in my situation: a big part of choosing the
    >> Squeezebox over your rivals at Roku was your respective reputations
    >> for customer service.
    >>
    >> Best Regards,
    >> Dr. Tim Nelson
    >> Stanford Linear Accelerator Center

    >
  • momerath

    #2
    Slim Devices SB2 disappointment &amp; SB for sale.

    I kinda got screwed too. I checked this morning when I read about the
    sb2, and I bought mine exactly one month +1 day ago I'm still
    having odd problems connecting after power off, and, of course, pcm
    streaming skips sometimes, even in situations I would have thought
    would certainly work. I've been going back and forth between an "Oh
    well, I should have seen it coming with the wireless model out of
    stock most places", and "Goddammit! I just paid $280 for a broken
    version of something that now costs $250!"

    ~Michael

    On Wed, 9 Mar 2005 15:50:25 -0800, Timothy Knight Nelson
    <tknelson (AT) slac (DOT) stanford.edu> wrote:
    > I guess I should have taken all of my Squeezebox problems as a sign and
    > returned it right after I received it (just over a month ago after a
    > 2-3 week backorder). Had I done this, I could now get a Squeezebox 2
    > that would have addressed all of my issues. Live and learn.
    >
    > -Tim
    >

    Comment

    • Timothy Knight Nelson

      #3
      Slim Devices SB2 disappointment &amp; SB for sale.

      > I've been going back and forth between an "Oh
      > well, I should have seen it coming with the wireless model out of
      > stock most places", and "Goddammit! I just paid $280 for a broken
      > version of something that now costs $250!"


      Perfectly put. I'm pretty good at dodging these changeover screw-jobs,
      but I blew it this time. Given all the raves I read about Slim
      Devices' treatment of their users/customers, I really had hope they
      would take care of us somehow. Frankly, I can't imagine they shipped
      so many units in the last 2-3 months that they would risk much by
      offering something like ~$100 trade-up for people who bought one in the
      last few months (perhaps covering the holidays). I have to think the
      vast majority of folks who don't need the new features wouldn't bother
      to upgrade (I wouldn't), and they could likely resell the units they
      took back for ~$100 less than original price and lose *nothing* but the
      reselling overhead. Now each of us needs to fire up eBay and deal with
      it ourselves.

      Thanks Slim,
      Tim

      Comment

      • Mitch Harding

        #4
        Slim Devices SB2 disappointment &amp; SB for sale.

        <steps on my soapbox>
        I don't think they are giving anyone a raw deal by sticking to their
        30 day policy. If you chose to buy a Squeezebox, I assume it's
        because you thought it would meet your needs. If you kept it past the
        30 day period, presumably that is because you were satisfied with the
        product. If there were problems with the product that prevented your
        enjoyment, you should have returned it.

        I've owned my SB for over a year now, and in my experience Slim
        Devices have gone above and beyond the call of duty in terms of
        customer service. But they are still a business, and they have to set
        some time limit on their return policy. I feel like people almost
        want to take advantage of Slim Devices, because they've been so good
        to their customers.

        I understand your frustration -- many times I have upgraded computer
        or audio components, only to have a newer version come out in the
        subsequent months. It's not a fun feeling, but it doesn't mean I was
        swindled. If I had been truly unhappy with any of my purchases, I
        could have returned them.
        </soapbox>

        On Wed, 9 Mar 2005 16:20:01 -0800, Timothy Knight Nelson
        <tknelson (AT) slac (DOT) stanford.edu> wrote:
        > > I've been going back and forth between an "Oh
        > > well, I should have seen it coming with the wireless model out of
        > > stock most places", and "Goddammit! I just paid $280 for a broken
        > > version of something that now costs $250!"

        >
        > Perfectly put. I'm pretty good at dodging these changeover screw-jobs,
        > but I blew it this time. Given all the raves I read about Slim
        > Devices' treatment of their users/customers, I really had hope they
        > would take care of us somehow. Frankly, I can't imagine they shipped
        > so many units in the last 2-3 months that they would risk much by
        > offering something like ~$100 trade-up for people who bought one in the
        > last few months (perhaps covering the holidays). I have to think the
        > vast majority of folks who don't need the new features wouldn't bother
        > to upgrade (I wouldn't), and they could likely resell the units they
        > took back for ~$100 less than original price and lose *nothing* but the
        > reselling overhead. Now each of us needs to fire up eBay and deal with
        > it ourselves.
        >
        > Thanks Slim,
        > Tim
        >
        >

        Comment

        • Timothy Knight Nelson

          #5
          Slim Devices SB2 disappointment &amp; SB for sale.

          Mitch,

          For the most part, I'm with you. However, I don't think what I am
          proposing "takes advantage" of Slim Devices. With my proposal, they
          lose little or nothing by consolidating the resale of returned,
          original SB. All they need to do is figure out how much they could
          sell the perfect, returned units for ($199? $179? <for wireless>) and
          offer that as the trade-in value against an SB2.

          This would be a service to the customer to resell their unit, *NOT* a
          giveaway. In addition, having units to sell at a lower price point
          might put them into hands that would not otherwise pony up to buy an
          SB2.

          -Tim

          On Mar 9, 2005, at 4:29 PM, Mitch Harding wrote:

          > <steps on my soapbox>
          > I don't think they are giving anyone a raw deal by sticking to their
          > 30 day policy. If you chose to buy a Squeezebox, I assume it's
          > because you thought it would meet your needs. If you kept it past the
          > 30 day period, presumably that is because you were satisfied with the
          > product. If there were problems with the product that prevented your
          > enjoyment, you should have returned it.
          >
          > I've owned my SB for over a year now, and in my experience Slim
          > Devices have gone above and beyond the call of duty in terms of
          > customer service. But they are still a business, and they have to set
          > some time limit on their return policy. I feel like people almost
          > want to take advantage of Slim Devices, because they've been so good
          > to their customers.
          >
          > I understand your frustration -- many times I have upgraded computer
          > or audio components, only to have a newer version come out in the
          > subsequent months. It's not a fun feeling, but it doesn't mean I was
          > swindled. If I had been truly unhappy with any of my purchases, I
          > could have returned them.
          > </soapbox>
          >
          > On Wed, 9 Mar 2005 16:20:01 -0800, Timothy Knight Nelson
          > <tknelson (AT) slac (DOT) stanford.edu> wrote:
          >>> I've been going back and forth between an "Oh
          >>> well, I should have seen it coming with the wireless model out of
          >>> stock most places", and "Goddammit! I just paid $280 for a broken
          >>> version of something that now costs $250!"

          >>
          >> Perfectly put. I'm pretty good at dodging these changeover
          >> screw-jobs,
          >> but I blew it this time. Given all the raves I read about Slim
          >> Devices' treatment of their users/customers, I really had hope they
          >> would take care of us somehow. Frankly, I can't imagine they shipped
          >> so many units in the last 2-3 months that they would risk much by
          >> offering something like ~$100 trade-up for people who bought one in
          >> the
          >> last few months (perhaps covering the holidays). I have to think the
          >> vast majority of folks who don't need the new features wouldn't bother
          >> to upgrade (I wouldn't), and they could likely resell the units they
          >> took back for ~$100 less than original price and lose *nothing* but
          >> the
          >> reselling overhead. Now each of us needs to fire up eBay and deal
          >> with
          >> it ourselves.
          >>
          >> Thanks Slim,
          >> Tim
          >>
          >>

          Comment

          • Bill Moseley

            #6
            Slim Devices SB2 disappointment &amp; SB for sale.

            It would be easier if Sean wasn't detailing how cool the new unit is.


            My (non-wireless) squeezebox is still in its box having just arrived
            yesterday. Tempting to exchange, but it's nice not having to wait.
            I doubt I'd ever hear the difference.

            --
            Bill Moseley
            moseley (AT) hank (DOT) org

            Comment

            • Timothy Knight Nelson

              #7
              Slim Devices SB2 disappointment &amp; SB for sale.

              Bill,

              You prove my point, exactly. Depending on how you plan to use your SB,
              you likely won't ever know the difference. If you are in that
              category, I can see why you wouldn't want to wait, let alone pay $100
              or so like I am proposing for those in some time-window beyond the 30
              days. However, a few of us are doing things with our Squeezeboxes for
              which the higher data rate is the difference between "it works" and "it
              works, most of the time". For us, ~$100 to trade in is a no-brainer.

              I hardly think Slim Devices would be deluged with trade-in requests,
              and would generate a lot of good will with such a policy.

              But hey...it's their company...

              -Tim

              On Mar 9, 2005, at 4:44 PM, Bill Moseley wrote:

              > It would be easier if Sean wasn't detailing how cool the new unit is.
              >
              >
              > My (non-wireless) squeezebox is still in its box having just arrived
              > yesterday. Tempting to exchange, but it's nice not having to wait.
              > I doubt I'd ever hear the difference.
              >
              > --
              > Bill Moseley
              > moseley (AT) hank (DOT) org
              >
              >

              Comment

              • kdf
                NOT a Slim Devices Employee
                • Apr 2005
                • 9493

                #8
                Slim Devices SB2 disappointment &amp; SB for sale.

                Quoting Timothy Knight Nelson <tknelson (AT) slac (DOT) stanford.edu>:

                > Mitch,
                >
                > For the most part, I'm with you. However, I don't think what I am
                > proposing "takes advantage" of Slim Devices. With my proposal, they
                > lose little or nothing by consolidating the resale of returned,
                > original SB. All they need to do is figure out how much they could
                > sell the perfect, returned units for ($199? $179? <for wireless>) and
                > offer that as the trade-in value against an SB2.
                >


                1) These units will be in unknown condition, and unknown life experience. If
                they were to arrive back in unacceptable condition, or not last the 30-days of
                the satisfaction guarantee, who bears the burden? Is it good customer service
                to pass on goods of unknown condition to new customers? Its good for you, but
                hopefully you would have sympathy for the user who comes back feeling they got
                a lesser model than another trade-in.

                2) If it really is 'little or nothing' to have to manage reciept, inventory and
                resale, then ahy are you so upset about having to sell a unit yourself? (and
                without burden of a 30-day satisfaction guarantee to back it up)

                3) You can sell it yourself and be done with it. Slim would have to spend time
                and effort refurbishing the units. What you are suggesting (demanding) seems
                to imply that Slim Devices should be re-purchasing their old units at the price
                they intend to re-sell. I'd welcome clarification on that.

                I'm just trying to put the balanced argument out there, so please try not to
                take this as confrontational. I'm not an employee of Slim Devices, no all of
                the above is simply conjecture.

                cheers,
                -kdf

                Comment

                • Timothy Knight Nelson

                  #9
                  Slim Devices SB2 disappointment &amp; SB for sale.

                  As I suggested,

                  1) The units would have to be in essentially perfect condition: Slim
                  Devices could reject as necessary. Mine is pristine, as I would guess
                  most are: not a high wear-and-tear item (I usually leave mine at home
                  when I go rock climbing). A quick wipe and this one could go back in a
                  box.

                  2) Slim Devices would have to figure in their overhead to resell (a
                  fact that I also noted in a previous message).

                  Best,
                  Tim

                  P.S. By the way, clearly this is a suggestion, not a demand. When I
                  buy the company, then I can demand. In the meantime, try harder not to
                  be confrontational.

                  > What you are suggesting (demanding) seems

                  ^^^^^^^^^^^
                  > so please try not to
                  > take this as confrontational.


                  Pretty hard when someone puts words in your mouth.

                  Comment

                  • momerath

                    #10
                    Slim Devices SB2 disappointment &amp; SB for sale.

                    Mitch Harding said:
                    > If you chose to buy a Squeezebox, I assume it's
                    > because you thought it would meet your needs. If you kept it past the
                    > 30 day period, presumably that is because you were satisfied with the
                    > product. If there were problems with the product that prevented your
                    > enjoyment, you should have returned it.
                    >


                    My particular (and admitedly odd, but lets not get into that plz) need
                    is for the SB to play a pcm stream without dropouts over wireless
                    within the SAME BACKPACK as the notebook running slimserver. It does
                    this most of the time; sometimes for a whole day's worth of listening
                    (8+ hours). If the SB2 (or some theoretical other product with the
                    same features) had also been available, for say $350, I would have
                    bought the SB, (since its cheaper and presumably does what I need)
                    and, having experienced dropouts (they come in waves), exchanged it
                    for the SB2. As it was, I kept it because it was just good enough and
                    I didnt see another product that would fit my needs (at any price).

                    My point is, its not as simple as Mitch makes it out to be.

                    ~Michael

                    Comment

                    • momerath

                      #11
                      Slim Devices SB2 disappointment &amp; SB for sale.

                      Thanks for the thought, but I'm running 2.6.11 with cfq. I've tried
                      anticipatory and even a genetic algorythm patch for anticipatory.
                      I've reniced, run X-less, etc to no avail.

                      ~Michael

                      On Thu, 10 Mar 2005 02:55:13 +0100, Christian Pernegger
                      <pernegger (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote:
                      > >of course, pcm streaming skips sometimes, even in situations I would have
                      > >thought would
                      > >certainly work.

                      >
                      > On the off chance that you're running SlimServer on Linux 2.4 - the default
                      > disk scheduler is optimized for everything but streaming files, meaning I'd
                      > often get skips even while only listing a bigger directory for example. The
                      > 2.4 scheduler can not be tuned much to avoid this but in 2.6 there are
                      > different schedulers available.
                      > While I couldn't even serve two streams at the same time properly before the
                      > cfq scheduler has yet to miss a beat with 16 streams running (video files
                      > with nearly the same bitrate as PCM)
                      >
                      > C.
                      >
                      >

                      Comment

                      • Guest's Avatar

                        #12
                        Slim Devices SB2 disappointment &amp; SB for sale.

                        > Think of it like this. This (the SD operated mailing list) is a pretty
                        > good place to put up a WTS notice for an SB1. In a way, this is
                        > helping with the resale.


                        I just need to chime in an say that the resale of units is pretty steady.
                        After the production of SLIMP3s stopped and Slimdevices released the
                        Squeezebox1 I picked up 4 SLIMP3s on ebay in a matter of a few weeks. All
                        were purchased from happy owners looking to get new squeezboxen. It
                        worked out well for all involved. I got SLIMP3s for my whole house and
                        they got money towards their new toys.

                        Tom Malsbury

                        Comment

                        • momerath

                          #13
                          Slim Devices SB2 disappointment &amp; SB for sale.

                          I said I'd rather not get into it, but the reason is that I would like
                          the notebook not to have any wires hanging off of it; my usb sound
                          card broke one of my ports in the course of a normal day of hauling it
                          about. Right now I'm using a crossover to avoid dropouts, and I
                          believe the ethernet port on my notebook is sturdier than the usb, but
                          it would suck even more for it to break. It has also come loose
                          several times, which is at least as annoying as a dropout. The reason
                          I mentioned it is that 802.11b should obviously work well enough to
                          stream pcm when the two devices are a foot apart. I dont think it was
                          unreasonable of me to expect that. Also, how is wireless more of a
                          hassle than wired? (assuming it works reliably)

                          On Wed, 9 Mar 2005 19:08:20 -0700, Jason <jason (AT) pagefamily (DOT) net> wrote:
                          > If the two devices are in the same backpack why on earth would you need
                          > wireless or want the hassle?
                          >

                          Comment

                          • Timothy Knight Nelson

                            #14
                            Slim Devices SB2 disappointment &amp; SB for sale.

                            Tom,

                            Thanks for having something constructive to say. I'll be giving it a
                            shot, and will post to this list when I manage to do it. At the
                            moment, life is so overwhelming (with new baby, job, house as
                            mentioned)... I need another project (even a small one like an ebay
                            sale) like a proverbial hole in the head.

                            -Tim

                            On Mar 9, 2005, at 6:14 PM, <slim (AT) malsbury (DOT) net> wrote:

                            >
                            >> Think of it like this. This (the SD operated mailing list) is a pretty
                            >> good place to put up a WTS notice for an SB1. In a way, this is
                            >> helping with the resale.

                            >
                            > I just need to chime in an say that the resale of units is pretty
                            > steady.
                            > After the production of SLIMP3s stopped and Slimdevices released the
                            > Squeezebox1 I picked up 4 SLIMP3s on ebay in a matter of a few weeks.
                            > All
                            > were purchased from happy owners looking to get new squeezboxen. It
                            > worked out well for all involved. I got SLIMP3s for my whole house and
                            > they got money towards their new toys.
                            >
                            > Tom Malsbury
                            >
                            >
                            >

                            Comment

                            • Virr

                              #15
                              linux dropout due to io scheduling

                              I had problems with drop outs when running a cp -al in the background.
                              So I reniced the server, and the cp -al. No luck. So I switched to
                              2.6, and the drop outs nearly disappeared. I then set
                              elevator=deadline in grub, no more drop outs (at least until a kernel
                              upgrade removed the elevator=deadline). I tried tweaking the
                              anticipatory scheduler, but didn't have any luck (probably because I
                              didn't tweak it enough). Regardless the new SB2 looks great, but I'm
                              happy with what I have.

                              -Darren

                              On Mar 9, 2005, at 21:01, momerath wrote:

                              > Thanks for the thought, but I'm running 2.6.11 with cfq. I've tried
                              > anticipatory and even a genetic algorythm patch for anticipatory.
                              > I've reniced, run X-less, etc to no avail.
                              >
                              > ~Michael
                              >
                              > On Thu, 10 Mar 2005 02:55:13 +0100, Christian Pernegger
                              > <pernegger (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote:
                              >>> of course, pcm streaming skips sometimes, even in situations I would
                              >>> have
                              >>> thought would
                              >>> certainly work.

                              >>
                              >> On the off chance that you're running SlimServer on Linux 2.4 - the
                              >> default
                              >> disk scheduler is optimized for everything but streaming files,
                              >> meaning I'd
                              >> often get skips even while only listing a bigger directory for
                              >> example. The
                              >> 2.4 scheduler can not be tuned much to avoid this but in 2.6 there are
                              >> different schedulers available.
                              >> While I couldn't even serve two streams at the same time properly
                              >> before the
                              >> cfq scheduler has yet to miss a beat with 16 streams running (video
                              >> files
                              >> with nearly the same bitrate as PCM)
                              >>
                              >> C.
                              >>
                              >>

                              Comment

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