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Jason
2005-03-09, 09:01
The obvious risk to slim devices if they do this is that some other company
can produce a super budget version of the SB, load the SB firmware onto it
and completely undercut Slim Devices potentially putting them out of
business.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: discuss-bounces (AT) lists (DOT) slimdevices.com
> [mailto:discuss-bounces (AT) lists (DOT) slimdevices.com] On Behalf Of
> Marc Sherman
> Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2005 8:56 AM
> To: Slim Devices Discussion
> Subject: [slim] Open firmware for SB2?
>
> It sounds like the SB2 is going to have a lot of new
> possibilies for what can actually be done on the box, as
> opposed to in the server.
>
> Is there any chance we'll see an open source firmware release
> for SB2 so we can hack on it?
>
> - Marc
>

Phil Karn
2005-03-09, 20:01
Jason wrote:
> The obvious risk to slim devices if they do this is that some other company
> can produce a super budget version of the SB, load the SB firmware onto it
> and completely undercut Slim Devices potentially putting them out of
> business.

Quite frankly, I just don't see all that much value in the existing SB
firmware that couldn't be easily duplicated from scratch by someone else
building a similar product. After all, it *is* a "slim" device, meaning
that the box does very little on its own; nearly all the heavy lifting
is done back at the server, and that's already open source.

So open-sourcing the Squeezebox firmware would result in Slimdevices
picking up a lot of new features from its users for free, and since they
already make a very good hardware box at a reasonable price I don't
think they have much to worry about from being knocked off.

Phil

Lars Kellogg-Stedman
2005-03-10, 06:19
> The only problem with that is liability. With a firmware upgrade
> it is concievable that the units could be left in a non-bootable,
> non-flashable way.

A well designed product will have a read-only fallback firmware that can
be used to recover from bad flash upgrades. I don't know if the SB2
falls into this category; I'm just saying that the problem you describe
is design dependent, not inherent in flash-upgradeable devices.

-- Lars

Jay Sissom
2005-03-10, 06:56
Can someone from the company reply to this? Is the firmware on the
SB2 going to be open? At one time, the source to the firmware was
checked into CVS. Now I can't find the CVS repository so I can't look
to see if it's in there.

Thanks
Jay


On Thu, 10 Mar 2005 08:19:03 -0500, Lars Kellogg-Stedman
<lars (AT) oddbit (DOT) com> wrote:
> > The only problem with that is liability. With a firmware upgrade
> > it is concievable that the units could be left in a non-bootable,
> > non-flashable way.
>
> A well designed product will have a read-only fallback firmware that can
> be used to recover from bad flash upgrades. I don't know if the SB2
> falls into this category; I'm just saying that the problem you describe
> is design dependent, not inherent in flash-upgradeable devices.
>
> -- Lars
>
>

seanadams
2005-03-10, 09:55
On Mar 10, 2005, at 5:56 AM, Jay Sissom wrote:

> Can someone from the company reply to this? Is the firmware on the
> SB2 going to be open?

Maybe.

> At one time, the source to the firmware was
> checked into CVS. Now I can't find the CVS repository so I can't look
> to see if it's in there.
>

That was SLIMP3 firmware, which was all code I wrote myself, so we
could release it however we wanted. Squeezebox and Squeezebox2 include
3rd party proprietary OS and wireless drivers and require a $30,000
development kit in order to write code for them. These are just a few
of the obstacles to opening up firmware development.

Timothy Knight Nelson
2005-03-10, 10:58
Hi Everyone,

So... rather than put my SB1 on eBay yet, let me float it here first.
I have a recent (late Jan '05) SB1 Wireless Platinum that is in
brand-new condition (sitting out about 4 weeks) and barely used.
Original box and all components included. If someone offers $200, it
is theirs, UPS ground included to anywhere in the continental US.
Payment can be arranged through Paypal.

If you want to make an offer, please contact me via private email.

Best,
Tim Nelson
tknelson (AT) slac (DOT) stanford.edu

On Mar 10, 2005, at 8:55 AM, Sean Adams wrote:

>
>
>
> On Mar 10, 2005, at 5:56 AM, Jay Sissom wrote:
>
>> Can someone from the company reply to this? Is the firmware on the
>> SB2 going to be open?
>
> Maybe.
>
>> At one time, the source to the firmware was
>> checked into CVS. Now I can't find the CVS repository so I can't look
>> to see if it's in there.
>>
>
> That was SLIMP3 firmware, which was all code I wrote myself, so we
> could release it however we wanted. Squeezebox and Squeezebox2 include
> 3rd party proprietary OS and wireless drivers and require a $30,000
> development kit in order to write code for them. These are just a few
> of the obstacles to opening up firmware development.
>
>

Phil Karn
2005-03-11, 18:38
Sean Adams wrote:

> That was SLIMP3 firmware, which was all code I wrote myself, so we could
> release it however we wanted. Squeezebox and Squeezebox2 include 3rd
> party proprietary OS and wireless drivers and require a $30,000
> development kit in order to write code for them. These are just a few of
> the obstacles to opening up firmware development.

Well, I suppose an alternative would be to open up all the necessary
hardware specs (if they're not already open) and encourage an
independent open source firmware development from scratch. If or when it
surpasses the stock firmware in features and stability, you could switch
to it.

Phil