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Michael Robertson
2005-02-27, 22:58
I've seen several questions about MP3beamer (http://www.mp3beamer.com)
on the list I thought I'd address.

Q: Is MP3beamer just re-badged slimserver?
A: MP3beamer is a suite of products. The server component of MP3beamer
does share some code with slimserver but it is a different product with
some unique features. Some of the unique features are ability to stream
songs with remote iTunes listeners, auto-rip CDs, one click installation
and setup, control application, UPnP support, and remote syncing. You'll
find screenshots of most of these at: http://mp3beamer.com/screenshots.html

There are actually several pieces of software which make up the
MP3beamer experience. MP3beamer comes with Linspire, an ultra-easy
desktop Linux operating system which makes it easy to setup and maintain
a MP3beamer machine. Linspire installs in about 5-10 minutes and makes
MP3beamer installation a very quick process via CNR (click-n-run). See:
http://www.linspire.com/cnr Also included is Lsongs, an easy to use
music manager for Linux which has been tuned for automatic ripping and
seamless interaction with MP3beamer. MP3beamer Sync is a super-useful
utility which allows a remote user to sync their song collection from
MP3beamer to a remote machine for offline playback.

Q: Is MP3beamer GPL?
A: Parts of MP3beamer are GPL. Parts are based on Slimserver. There are
some parts which are not GPL, specifically code licensed from a 3rd
party which we do not have the rights to GPL.

Q: Is the source code provided for MP3beamer?
A: Yes, for those parts which are GPLed. MP3beamer was constructed with
some assistance from Linspire engineers. You can read about Linspire's
support for open source initiatives here:
http://info.linspire.com/opensource/

Q: Do you charge $79 for the software? Is that permissible under the GPL?
A: Yes, it is permissible to sell software under the GPL. Read here for
more information:
http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#DoesTheGPLAllowMoney

MP3tunes sells MP3beamer hardware for $399 and is a full PC, but it's
about 1/3rd the size of a desktop machine which makes it a good size for
a music appliance. It runs Linspire and includes access to all the
software for MP3beamer. If customers wants to install on their own
machine, they can purchase the MP3beamer suite of software for $79. This
includes Linspire which is $59 program plus MP3beamer server software,
Lsongs and MP3beamer Sync so I think it's a good value. There are
definitely things that MP3beamer can do which slimserver cannot which if
those features and one click install have value to people makes it a
good price. If those features don't have value and people don't mind
setting up their own machines, then it's not a good value.

Q: Will MP3beamer work with Squeezebox?
A: Yes.

Q: Why isn't the Squeezebox listed on the MP3beamer site as a
recommended hardware device?
A: There are several reasons.

1) We're targeting MP3beamer as a mass market product. This means we
emphasize easy of use and low-cost. While definitely not as expandable,
there are some devices like the Linksys and SMC units which are less
then half the price of Squeezebox unit ($125 vs $279) which is critical
to reach the mass market with the music appliance concept. And some
units like Linksys even have speakers which make them standalone boom
boxes which is ideal for our target market.

2) We have yet to put up a the complete list of devices. A more
comprehensive list of devices will go on the MP3beamer web site this
week with another dozen or so hardware units which should work with
MP3beamer.

3) I like Squeezebox. In fact, I bought 8 over Christmas time and gave
to my executive team as gifts. I called up Slimdevices asking if we
could work with them on MP3beamer project. My multiple calls and emails
were finally returned after 3 weeks, but unfortunately it was an
absolutely awful meeting and I don't use those words lightly. I laid out
plans for our product. I was very abruptly told that Slimdevices had no
interest in working with us. They said they were working on other things
for next few months which they could not tell me about and they had no
time for us. When I asked if we could get demo units to showcase with
MP3beamer at the Desktop Summit trade show (see:
http://desktopsummit.com), I was told 'No'. I asked for marketing
literature I could hand out I was also rebuffed. Then I called a couple
other companies and got a much warmer response and they gladly sent us
units to demo and literature to pass out. Still at the conference I
brought in my own personal unit so there would be at least one
Squeezebox on display at the show.

I have a history of rooting for and supporting the underdogs against big
competitors. But in this situation for the reasons cited above, I
decided to focus our attention on Linksys and SMC units which is
probably the best decision given our target market and the events
outlined above.

-- MR

Michael Robertson
michael (AT) linspire (DOT) com Read the latest Michael's Minute here
<http://www.lindows.com/mm>

CEO, Linspire Inc <http://www.linspire.com> - World's Most Affordable Choice
CEO, SIPphone <http://www.sipphone.com> Inc - Call worldwide for free!

Michael Alletto
2005-02-28, 08:46
I'd like to thank you for the information, but you should give credit
to slim on your site about mp3beamer where appropriate. Just because
you had a bad encounter doesn't mean you shouldn't give some credit.

Especially for this: http://mp3beamer.com/ss_java.html

I mean come on, you even left the softsqueeze string in there.

On Sun, 27 Feb 2005 21:58:54 -0800, Michael Robertson
<michael (AT) linspire (DOT) com> wrote:
> I've seen several questions about MP3beamer (http://www.mp3beamer.com) on
> the list I thought I'd address.
>
> Q: Is MP3beamer just re-badged slimserver?
> A: MP3beamer is a suite of products. The server component of MP3beamer does
> share some code with slimserver but it is a different product with some
> unique features. Some of the unique features are ability to stream songs
> with remote iTunes listeners, auto-rip CDs, one click installation and
> setup, control application, UPnP support, and remote syncing. You'll find
> screenshots of most of these at: http://mp3beamer.com/screenshots.html
>
> There are actually several pieces of software which make up the MP3beamer
> experience. MP3beamer comes with Linspire, an ultra-easy desktop Linux
> operating system which makes it easy to setup and maintain a MP3beamer
> machine. Linspire installs in about 5-10 minutes and makes MP3beamer
> installation a very quick process via CNR (click-n-run). See:
> http://www.linspire.com/cnr Also included is Lsongs, an easy to use music
> manager for Linux which has been tuned for automatic ripping and seamless
> interaction with MP3beamer. MP3beamer Sync is a super-useful utility which
> allows a remote user to sync their song collection from MP3beamer to a
> remote machine for offline playback.
>
> Q: Is MP3beamer GPL?
> A: Parts of MP3beamer are GPL. Parts are based on Slimserver. There are
> some parts which are not GPL, specifically code licensed from a 3rd party
> which we do not have the rights to GPL.
>
> Q: Is the source code provided for MP3beamer?
> A: Yes, for those parts which are GPLed. MP3beamer was constructed with
> some assistance from Linspire engineers. You can read about Linspire's
> support for open source initiatives here:
> http://info.linspire.com/opensource/
>
> Q: Do you charge $79 for the software? Is that permissible under the GPL?
> A: Yes, it is permissible to sell software under the GPL. Read here for
> more information:
> http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#DoesTheGPLAllowMoney
>
> MP3tunes sells MP3beamer hardware for $399 and is a full PC, but it's about
> 1/3rd the size of a desktop machine which makes it a good size for a music
> appliance. It runs Linspire and includes access to all the software for
> MP3beamer. If customers wants to install on their own machine, they can
> purchase the MP3beamer suite of software for $79. This includes Linspire
> which is $59 program plus MP3beamer server software, Lsongs and MP3beamer
> Sync so I think it's a good value. There are definitely things that
> MP3beamer can do which slimserver cannot which if those features and one
> click install have value to people makes it a good price. If those features
> don't have value and people don't mind setting up their own machines, then
> it's not a good value.
>
> Q: Will MP3beamer work with Squeezebox?
> A: Yes.
>
> Q: Why isn't the Squeezebox listed on the MP3beamer site as a recommended
> hardware device?
> A: There are several reasons.
>
> 1) We're targeting MP3beamer as a mass market product. This means we
> emphasize easy of use and low-cost. While definitely not as expandable,
> there are some devices like the Linksys and SMC units which are less then
> half the price of Squeezebox unit ($125 vs $279) which is critical to reach
> the mass market with the music appliance concept. And some units like
> Linksys even have speakers which make them standalone boom boxes which is
> ideal for our target market.
>
> 2) We have yet to put up a the complete list of devices. A more
> comprehensive list of devices will go on the MP3beamer web site this week
> with another dozen or so hardware units which should work with MP3beamer.
>
> 3) I like Squeezebox. In fact, I bought 8 over Christmas time and gave to
> my executive team as gifts. I called up Slimdevices asking if we could work
> with them on MP3beamer project. My multiple calls and emails were finally
> returned after 3 weeks, but unfortunately it was an absolutely awful meeting
> and I don't use those words lightly. I laid out plans for our product. I was
> very abruptly told that Slimdevices had no interest in working with us. They
> said they were working on other things for next few months which they could
> not tell me about and they had no time for us. When I asked if we could get
> demo units to showcase with MP3beamer at the Desktop Summit trade show (see:
> http://desktopsummit.com), I was told 'No'. I asked for marketing literature
> I could hand out I was also rebuffed. Then I called a couple other companies
> and got a much warmer response and they gladly sent us units to demo and
> literature to pass out. Still at the conference I brought in my own personal
> unit so there would be at least one Squeezebox on display at the show.
>
> I have a history of rooting for and supporting the underdogs against big
> competitors. But in this situation for the reasons cited above, I decided to
> focus our attention on Linksys and SMC units which is probably the best
> decision given our target market and the events outlined above.
>
> -- MR
>
>
> Michael Robertson
> michael (AT) linspire (DOT) com Read the latest Michael's Minute here
>
> CEO, Linspire Inc - World's Most Affordable Choice
> CEO, SIPphone Inc - Call worldwide for free!
>
>

Jeffrey Gordon
2005-02-28, 15:17
Michael Robertson wrote:

> I've seen several questions about MP3beamer (http://www.mp3beamer.com)
> on the list I thought I'd address.
>
> Q: Is MP3beamer just re-badged slimserver?
> A: MP3beamer is a suite of products. The server component of MP3beamer
> does share some code with slimserver but it is a different product
> with some unique features. Some of the unique features are ability to
> stream songs with remote iTunes listeners, auto-rip CDs, one click
> installation and setup, control application, UPnP support, and remote
> syncing. You'll find screenshots of most of these at:
> http://mp3beamer.com/screenshots.html
>
> There are actually several pieces of software which make up the
> MP3beamer experience. MP3beamer comes with Linspire, an ultra-easy
> desktop Linux operating system which makes it easy to setup and
> maintain a MP3beamer machine. Linspire installs in about 5-10 minutes
> and makes MP3beamer installation a very quick process via CNR
> (click-n-run). See: http://www.linspire.com/cnr Also included is
> Lsongs, an easy to use music manager for Linux which has been tuned
> for automatic ripping and seamless interaction with MP3beamer.
> MP3beamer Sync is a super-useful utility which allows a remote user to
> sync their song collection from MP3beamer to a remote machine for
> offline playback.
>
> Q: Is MP3beamer GPL?
> A: Parts of MP3beamer are GPL. Parts are based on Slimserver. There
> are some parts which are not GPL, specifically code licensed from a
> 3rd party which we do not have the rights to GPL.
>
> Q: Is the source code provided for MP3beamer?
> A: Yes, for those parts which are GPLed. MP3beamer was constructed
> with some assistance from Linspire engineers. You can read about
> Linspire's support for open source initiatives here:
> http://info.linspire.com/opensource/
>
> Q: Do you charge $79 for the software? Is that permissible under the GPL?
> A: Yes, it is permissible to sell software under the GPL. Read here
> for more information:
> http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#DoesTheGPLAllowMoney
>
> MP3tunes sells MP3beamer hardware for $399 and is a full PC, but it's
> about 1/3rd the size of a desktop machine which makes it a good size
> for a music appliance. It runs Linspire and includes access to all the
> software for MP3beamer. If customers wants to install on their own
> machine, they can purchase the MP3beamer suite of software for $79.
> This includes Linspire which is $59 program plus MP3beamer server
> software, Lsongs and MP3beamer Sync so I think it's a good value.
> There are definitely things that MP3beamer can do which slimserver
> cannot which if those features and one click install have value to
> people makes it a good price. If those features don't have value and
> people don't mind setting up their own machines, then it's not a good
> value.
>
> Q: Will MP3beamer work with Squeezebox?
> A: Yes.
>
> Q: Why isn't the Squeezebox listed on the MP3beamer site as a
> recommended hardware device?
> A: There are several reasons.
>
> 1) We're targeting MP3beamer as a mass market product. This means we
> emphasize easy of use and low-cost. While definitely not as
> expandable, there are some devices like the Linksys and SMC units
> which are less then half the price of Squeezebox unit ($125 vs $279)
> which is critical to reach the mass market with the music appliance
> concept. And some units like Linksys even have speakers which make
> them standalone boom boxes which is ideal for our target market.
>
> 2) We have yet to put up a the complete list of devices. A more
> comprehensive list of devices will go on the MP3beamer web site this
> week with another dozen or so hardware units which should work with
> MP3beamer.
>
> 3) I like Squeezebox. In fact, I bought 8 over Christmas time and gave
> to my executive team as gifts. I called up Slimdevices asking if we
> could work with them on MP3beamer project. My multiple calls and
> emails were finally returned after 3 weeks, but unfortunately it was
> an absolutely awful meeting and I don't use those words lightly. I
> laid out plans for our product. I was very abruptly told that
> Slimdevices had no interest in working with us. They said they were
> working on other things for next few months which they could not tell
> me about and they had no time for us. When I asked if we could get
> demo units to showcase with MP3beamer at the Desktop Summit trade show
> (see: http://desktopsummit.com), I was told 'No'. I asked for
> marketing literature I could hand out I was also rebuffed. Then I
> called a couple other companies and got a much warmer response and
> they gladly sent us units to demo and literature to pass out. Still at
> the conference I brought in my own personal unit so there would be at
> least one Squeezebox on display at the show.
>
> I have a history of rooting for and supporting the underdogs against
> big competitors. But in this situation for the reasons cited above, I
> decided to focus our attention on Linksys and SMC units which is
> probably the best decision given our target market and the events
> outlined above.
>
> -- MR
>
> Michael Robertson
> michael (AT) linspire (DOT) com Read the latest Michael's Minute here
> <http://www.lindows.com/mm>
>
> CEO, Linspire Inc <http://www.linspire.com> - World's Most Affordable
> Choice
> CEO, SIPphone <http://www.sipphone.com> Inc - Call worldwide for free!
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>

ron thigpen
2005-02-28, 15:38
Jeffrey Gordon wrote:

> Anyone else notice this is the same guy who brought us Lindows. Which
> he is now repackaging as Linspire, and because he cannot seem to sell a
> free OS, he is now trying to sell other free software.
>
> See the thing with OSS is that if you are going to repackage it and sell
> it atleast make an effort to to give credit where credit is due. And
> most important GIVE back to the OSS movement. Take RedHat for instance
> they sell repackage linux but they have also provided back to the OSS
> community by bug fixes/ patches, and hell the whole RPM system. I have
> not seen any thing that Lindows has done for Linux.

Lindows changed it's name to Linspire under legal duress. After winning
the right to continue to use the Lindows name in the U.S., they lost a
similar case in a non-U.S. court. For consistency's sake, they now
market under the Linspire name worldwide.

The Linspire company does contribute sponsorship to quite a few worthy
OSS projects: NVu, GAIM, and Reiser4 among others.
<http://info.linspire.com/opensource/>

And whatever you might think of their marketing style or software, they
have managed to get a Linux distribution into some marketplace niches
that are otherwise unserved.

--rt

Jeffrey Gordon
2005-02-28, 15:51
ron thigpen wrote:

> Jeffrey Gordon wrote:
>
>> Anyone else notice this is the same guy who brought us Lindows.
>> Which he is now repackaging as Linspire, and because he cannot seem
>> to sell a free OS, he is now trying to sell other free software.
>>
>> See the thing with OSS is that if you are going to repackage it and
>> sell it atleast make an effort to to give credit where credit is
>> due. And most important GIVE back to the OSS movement. Take RedHat
>> for instance they sell repackage linux but they have also provided
>> back to the OSS community by bug fixes/ patches, and hell the whole
>> RPM system. I have not seen any thing that Lindows has done for Linux.
>
>
> Lindows changed it's name to Linspire under legal duress. After
> winning the right to continue to use the Lindows name in the U.S.,
> they lost a similar case in a non-U.S. court. For consistency's sake,
> they now market under the Linspire name worldwide.
>
> The Linspire company does contribute sponsorship to quite a few worthy
> OSS projects: NVu, GAIM, and Reiser4 among others.
> <http://info.linspire.com/opensource/>
>
> And whatever you might think of their marketing style or software,
> they have managed to get a Linux distribution into some marketplace
> niches that are otherwise unserved.
>
> --rt
>
>

Michael Peters
2005-02-28, 15:59
On Mon, 28 Feb 2005 17:51:05 -0500, Jeffrey Gordon <jeff (AT) thetank (DOT) org> wrote:

>
> Yes most of my beefs with Linspire and now MP3beamer are with their
> marketing and lack of providing anything of substance while providing a
> charge on something you can get for free.


I do not like the distro myself either, I do not the default as root user etc.
However, Lindows/Linspire has in fact made signifigant contributions to Linux.

I have helped several people out with Fedora who did not even know
what Linux was until they bought a Linspire computer at Wallmart. In
that respect, it is a gateway distribution - and the users are free to
switch distro's if they want to, there is no lockin.

Lindspire also has done signifigant work on a GUI html editor. Yes, it
is based on code from Mozilla Composer, but they took that code and
extended it and actually have a very nice product.

Linspire managed to get the necessary licensing rights to include a
legal DVD player, etc.

I'm not fond of how the distribution works, I don't like some of the
solutions to common newbie issues they have come up, but the fact is
that they ARE coming up with solutions, and that is something I have
to respect.

That being said, this is a slim devices discussion list, not a "why
this distro or that distro" discussion thread. The beautiful thing
about GPL is that if you don't like a company, you can get the
products from another.

--
http://mpeters.us/

ron thigpen
2005-02-28, 16:05
Jeffrey Gordon wrote:

> Also why would anyone buy this, I do not see what it does that
> Slimserver and EAC can not do?

Nothing, except be easier to set up and use. For some portion of the
market, that makes all the difference.

> Yes most of my beefs with Linspire and now MP3beamer are with their
> marketing and lack of providing anything of substance while providing a
> charge on something you can get for free.

What they are charging for is packaging and delivery. Ease of use.
Which might be a rip-off to you, and might also be a valuable service to
someone else. The market will decide.

I'm not in their target market, and most current SB/SS users probably
aren't either. And I can't say I'm attracted to their folksy pitchman
advert style. But I don't begrudge them their spot in the market. And I
am willing to give credit where it's due to anyone who is stepping up to
support as many OSS as Linspire does.

--rt

Jack Coates
2005-02-28, 16:49
Jeffrey Gordon wrote:
....

> Also why would anyone buy this, I do not see what it does that
> Slimserver and EAC can not do?

"why do people buy things" is a complex question. A major component of
the answer is usually "ignorance".
--
Jack at Monkeynoodle dot Org: It's a Scientific Venture...
Riding the Emergency Third Rail Power Trip since 1996!