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Chris May
2005-02-24, 17:47
Can anyone give me any tips on dealing with 30k or so worth of songs?

I have a client who has a HUGE CD collection and wants to take the cream
of the crop and put them on a 250gig or 300gig HD for his listening
pleasure.

I'm hoping the 6.0 release will ease up the time it takes to search and
generate large playlists. Is there any danger of filling the disc that
contains the music library, yes we're using iTunes, completely? Does the
slimserver need space to store data?

Will I need to even use the iTunes library with 6.0? It seems like the
slimserver will have its own db of songs, no?

Thanks,

Chris

Robin Bowes
2005-02-24, 17:58
Chris May wrote:
> Can anyone give me any tips on dealing with 30k or so worth of songs?
>
> I have a client who has a HUGE CD collection and wants to take the cream
> of the crop and put them on a 250gig or 300gig HD for his listening
> pleasure.

Hmmm. Two things spring to mind:

1. File format

You'll presumably be using mp3 as flac would take up much more space
than 250/300GB. As an example, my "Non-Classical" directory with 6437
songs is 161GB. Transcoded to mp2 (for my iPod) this shrinks to 36GB.
So, on average, that's 25.5MB per track for flac and 5.7MB per track for
mp3 (I encode using lame --preset-standard).

Using these figures, 30k tracks would take up 767230MB for flac or
170389MB for mp3.

2. Backup

How are you going to back this up? Your client won't be very pleased if
his HDD dies and everything will have to be re-ripped.

I'm presuming you don't want to get involved in RAID and/or expesive
large capacity tape devices for backup.

With that in mind, two options spring to mind:

a. Buy three HDDs instead of just one and simply copy the music across
all three discs. Give your client one and keep the other two in safe,
geographically separate locations.

b. Use a ripping service that takes your CDs, rips them, and sends them
back to you on DVD. The DVDs are your backup.

> I'm hoping the 6.0 release will ease up the time it takes to search and
> generate large playlists. Is there any danger of filling the disc that
> contains the music library, yes we're using iTunes, completely? Does the
> slimserver need space to store data?
>
> Will I need to even use the iTunes library with 6.0? It seems like the
> slimserver will have its own db of songs, no?

I don't use iTunes with slimserver so I can't help here.

R.
--
http://robinbowes.com

Michael Peters
2005-02-24, 18:12
I have no idea about iTunes etc. but I do have a recomondation - if at
all possible, rip to flac - even if it means burning to DVD for space
reasons (it probably will)

You can fit quite a few albums in flac on a DVD-R, if you go with the
newer dual layer stuff you can fit even more albums in flac on a DVD.

The reason - flac is supported on just about every operating system (I
can't think of one where it isn't) and is an open standard, meaning it
isn't going to go away if some company decides to ditch it.
Additionally, it supports excellent tagging capabilities. You want to
go to something lossless because in 3 years or so, your client may
want them in a different lossy format - having ripped to flac allows
you to do that. And since flac supports excellent tagging, you won't
have to do any of that again once the flacs are properly tagged.

Only concern is how long the burned DVD backups would last.

EAC on Windows can use flac, and it's probably not too difficult to
script with cdparanoia on Linux (someone probably already has scripted
it for you, complete with cddb lookup etc. - just make sure it uses
cdparanoia in paranoia mode, might be an option - to ensure highest
quality rip cdparanoia is capable of)

I would seriously recommend you look through some of the forums at
hydrogenaudio - as the people there have a LOT of experience dealing
with absolutely massive collections.

--
http://mpeters.us/

Dan Sully
2005-02-24, 20:43
* Chris May shaped the electrons to say...

>Can anyone give me any tips on dealing with 30k or so worth of songs?
>
>I'm hoping the 6.0 release will ease up the time it takes to search and
>generate large playlists. Is there any danger of filling the disc that
>contains the music library, yes we're using iTunes, completely? Does the
>slimserver need space to store data?

SlimServer does need some amount of space to store it's database. I know of a
number of users with 100k+ tracks, and many in the 15-50k range. 6.0
dramatically speeds up the search speed, and lessens resource consumption.

The database size obviously depends on the number of tracks you have, but as
a datapoint, a user with 100k tracks has a db size of just over 100 megs.
Insignificant in comparison to the data being indexed.

> Will I need to even use the iTunes library with 6.0? It seems like the
> slimserver will have its own db of songs, no?

I personally don't use iTunes, but many people do, and they create complex
custom playlists using it. As far as I can tell, that's the biggest feature
that it has that SlimServer doesn't (yet!)

-D
--
<dr.pox> wtf? a garbled dingbat makes java switch to DWIM?

Phil Karn
2005-02-27, 06:14
Chris May wrote:
> Can anyone give me any tips on dealing with 30k or so worth of songs?
>
> I have a client who has a HUGE CD collection and wants to take the cream
> of the crop and put them on a 250gig or 300gig HD for his listening
> pleasure.

I only discovered the Squeezebox a few months ago. My boss got one and
began raving about it, and it's pretty rare for him to say nice things
about *any* product. So I got one (a second is now on order), and it
prompted me to get finally serious about the home audio server I've
always wanted to build.

I already had a Linux box acting as a server for the house, which I was
already planning to expand, so I just added a few more drives. The main
Linux file systems reside on a software RAID-1 array of two 250GB IDE
drives. I perform monthly backups by the simple expedient of removing
one drive every month and replacing it with a new drive or an old
recycled backup and letting the mirror rebuild automatically. This gives
me a complete bootable backup image of my system for no more downtime
than it takes to power down, swap the drives (it's in a removable caddy)
and reboot. I *highly* recommend this arrangement for any system that
can hold two hard drives. Tape is utterly obsolete as a backup medium,
and DVDs are also too slow and small. The only way to back up today's
hard drives are onto more hard drives.

Large, relatively static databases like music and personal photo
collections reside on six 300 GB SATA drives in a RAID-5 configuration:
4 data drives, 1 parity drive and one online spare. I strongly recommend
SATA if you're going to have this many drives in one box, as the cabling
would otherwise be a mess. Each drive is split into 50GB partitions, so
four data partitions joined in RAID-5 will produce a 200 GB virtual file
system. This is a manageable size for rsync backups onto external hard
drives that I keep off site or in a safe, as my drive rotation scheme
won't work for RAID-5. I currently use two of those 200GB RAID-5 file
systems for the slimserver music archive (currently 15,567 songs).

I rip all my CDs in FLAC format and keep them in a storage facility as
an off site backup, somewhat less vulnerable to burglary. With hard
disks now so roomy and cheap, I saw no reason to use any other format,
at least not for my master archive. The extra disk cost was minimal,
less than the value of my time ripping all my CDs again. (I'd already
ripped many of them before into MP3 or Ogg, and I don't want to ever
have to rip them again.) We'll use MP3, Ogg or AAC, produced from the
FLAC versions, only for secondary copies in iPods, laptops and car players.

Phil