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View Full Version : Was Nice box, now video server



Joe Hickey
2005-01-13, 06:05
I don't understand...

apart from new toy syndrome, why do people want a video server? films
aren't like music, you (generally) don't mix and match a playlist of
different films... you think I'm going to watch so and so, is it worth
$4000 to be able to sit on your fat a*** and choose the film via remote
rather than walking over to your shelf of DVDs?

If you want to use a remote to choose films go to sky box office (or
whatever the cable/satellite pay per view is called in your country),
you could watch 1000 different films and still not have paid as much as
you would for a video server!

Cheers

Joe

On 12 Jan 2005, at 23:16, discuss-request (AT) lists (DOT) slimdevices.com wrote:

> Subject: [slim] Nice box...
> Reply-To: Slim Devices Discussion <discuss (AT) lists (DOT) slimdevices.com>
>
>
> I think folks need to come to grips with reality a bit here. You start
> putting together a list of things you would need to do in order to do
> video
> from the PC and you easily are talking about a $4000-$5000 or more
> price tag
> just for a home video setup through your PC.

Danny Rego
2005-01-13, 06:52
I would say that a device like that wouldn't be all that usefull for FULL MOVIES, but for VIDEO FILES, whether downloaded, or perhaps recorded with a PVR.

I currently have a central server in the house which runs Windows XP Media Center Edition (which is EXCELLENT!!!), and that records all of my TV shows. From there, I use a modded XBox to view those TV shows, along with other video clips I have downloaded off the 'net. I do that because the media server is on the top floor, and my main entertainment center is in the basement.

These types of "media" playing devices are coming fast, and I can easily see them replacing my squeezebox in the near future (sorry, but it's true!). In fact...I was going to buy a few more squeezeboxes, but for the $$$, I can get full media players that interface with MCE, and serve up all sorts of stuff to my TV/Stereo.

Don't get me wrong...I love the squeezebox, but it's quickly becoming a dinosaur!

Danny Rego


----- Original Message -----
From: Joe Hickey
To: discuss (AT) lists (DOT) slimdevices.com
Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2005 8:05 AM
Subject: [slim] Was Nice box, now video server


I don't understand...

apart from new toy syndrome, why do people want a video server? films aren't like music, you (generally) don't mix and match a playlist of different films... you think I'm going to watch so and so, is it worth $4000 to be able to sit on your fat a*** and choose the film via remote rather than walking over to your shelf of DVDs?

If you want to use a remote to choose films go to sky box office (or whatever the cable/satellite pay per view is called in your country), you could watch 1000 different films and still not have paid as much as you would for a video server!

Cheers

Joe

On 12 Jan 2005, at 23:16, discuss-request (AT) lists (DOT) slimdevices.com wrote:


Subject: [slim] Nice box...
Reply-To: Slim Devices Discussion <discuss (AT) lists (DOT) slimdevices.com>


I think folks need to come to grips with reality a bit here. You start
putting together a list of things you would need to do in order to do video
from the PC and you easily are talking about a $4000-$5000 or more price tag
just for a home video setup through your PC.



------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Michael Alletto
2005-01-13, 09:10
First, lets get this out of the way. It does NOT cost 4 grand to
create one of these devices. That is an extreme exaggeration. Are
there devices that do this and more that cost that much? Yeah there
are. But there are also devices that aren't as elegent yet that cost
much much less that are quickly becoming really good options.

Now on to why I would want one. The concept is the same as a jukebox.
I own a ton of dvd's that take up a physical space. I have a single
disc dvd player. The ability to store all my dvd's on hard discs and
make them easily and quickly playable is the main reason. It is
exactly the same reasons as to why we've got all our cd's ripped to
mp3's (or whatever format) for streaming via the squeezebox. Why did
we all want a music server? To create groupings of music to play
easily and quickly and to store all our music in one central location.
CD's or DVD's, it is exactly the same thing. There is no difference.

Suggesting to just use video on demand through your cable system
proves how much people really don't get it. Why should I pay 8 bucks
(or whatever it costs) to the cable company each time I want to watch
a movie to send a movie across to me in a quality that is just a
little better than vhs? If I want to watch it again I have to pay
again and again. The selection is very limited and the quality flat
out sucks.

Imagine sitting on your couch on movie night, you flip the video feed
over to your video box and up pops a menu for video playback. You can
scroll through your dvd collection based on genre, year, or search for
actors or whatever. When you pick a movie up pops the scan of the dvd
box and a brief description of the movie (this could be easily pulled
from imdb or amazon or many other sources). Hitting the play button
starts playing the files and there are options to either jump to the
main menu or to just start playing the movie when the play button is
hit. In another room other family members want to watch a different
movie. In that room is also a video box accessing the same server.
They are watching either a different movie or maybe the same movie, it
doesn't matter.

As far as the legalities go. It is not illegal to backup your dvd to
your hard drive for playing through another dvd player. Just like it
is not illegal to backup your cd to your HD to play through a music
player. You could say, well people are just going to rent movies from
netflix and dump them to their hard drives for playing through this
device. Ok, so what if they do? How is that any different from
someone going to the library to rent a music cd then ripping it to
their HD to play through their squeezebox. Or getting all of a
friends collection of cds and ripping them?

Video servers are here and will only be getting better. I would hate
to see slim not move forward with the rest of the industry like turtle
beach has done with their audiotron.

On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 13:05:04 +0000, Joe Hickey <joe (AT) hotandstripey (DOT) org> wrote:
> I don't understand...
>
> apart from new toy syndrome, why do people want a video server? films
> aren't like music, you (generally) don't mix and match a playlist of
> different films... you think I'm going to watch so and so, is it worth
> $4000 to be able to sit on your fat a*** and choose the film via remote
> rather than walking over to your shelf of DVDs?
>
> If you want to use a remote to choose films go to sky box office (or
> whatever the cable/satellite pay per view is called in your country),
> you could watch 1000 different films and still not have paid as much as
> you would for a video server!
>
> Cheers
>
> Joe
>
> On 12 Jan 2005, at 23:16, discuss-request (AT) lists (DOT) slimdevices.com wrote:
>
> > Subject: [slim] Nice box...
> > Reply-To: Slim Devices Discussion <discuss (AT) lists (DOT) slimdevices.com>
> >
> >
> > I think folks need to come to grips with reality a bit here. You start
> > putting together a list of things you would need to do in order to do
> > video
> > from the PC and you easily are talking about a $4000-$5000 or more
> > price tag
> > just for a home video setup through your PC.
>
>
>

Jules Taplin
2005-01-13, 09:25
Sounds thoroughly decent to me. And pretty much a reality now, to be honest.

Most of my DVD's have stored images on a server up in the server room
(as the broom closet that the estate agent laughingly called 'Bedroom 4'
is now referred to). You get quite a few of them once you do a little
transcoding, and stick a stack of 200GB HDD's together. Modded Xbox's
see it on xbmc, which is pretty sweet in it's own right, but for
preference - I still use mythtv on a PC plugged into the Plasma and the
Surround Sound decoder in the lounge. MythVideo already does pretty much
all you describe - down to the IMDB-harvested information for the movie
in question. And, of course, the other PC's around the place can just
use VLC or similar, and navigate the directory heirachy to what you want
to watch.

And to be honest... it's not just about DVD's. The previous poster has a
point that you probably don't watch the same DVD anywhere near as often
as you'd listen to the same mp3. However... that's not the point. The
interesting game is to have enough storage around that you can happily
archive any TV series that you'd normally watch, and retain them
permanently. It's the same process as capturing entire series of
programmes by painstakingly programming the VCR... but nicely automated.
My TiVo works out what I'd like to watch... and a set of perl scripts
which interrogate it, and queue transcoding, and storage of all the
episodes. When I first started the scripts... I was adding about 6 hours
of TV per day to the archive. It works well because Satellite TV has
such a fast turnaround of repeats. Nowadays, TiVo still grabs about the
same, but the scripts throw away great traunches of it, as I already got
that episode last time it was on.

This way... it doesn't matter what's actually on the Telly - there's
always something to watch. And... . I never accidentally get exposed to
irritating adverts, or Reality TV of any form... ;)


-- Jules



Michael Alletto wrote:

>First, lets get this out of the way. It does NOT cost 4 grand to
>create one of these devices. That is an extreme exaggeration. Are
>there devices that do this and more that cost that much? Yeah there
>are. But there are also devices that aren't as elegent yet that cost
>much much less that are quickly becoming really good options.
>
>Now on to why I would want one. The concept is the same as a jukebox.
> I own a ton of dvd's that take up a physical space. I have a single
>disc dvd player. The ability to store all my dvd's on hard discs and
>make them easily and quickly playable is the main reason. It is
>exactly the same reasons as to why we've got all our cd's ripped to
>mp3's (or whatever format) for streaming via the squeezebox. Why did
>we all want a music server? To create groupings of music to play
>easily and quickly and to store all our music in one central location.
> CD's or DVD's, it is exactly the same thing. There is no difference.
>
>Suggesting to just use video on demand through your cable system
>proves how much people really don't get it. Why should I pay 8 bucks
>(or whatever it costs) to the cable company each time I want to watch
>a movie to send a movie across to me in a quality that is just a
>little better than vhs? If I want to watch it again I have to pay
>again and again. The selection is very limited and the quality flat
>out sucks.
>
>Imagine sitting on your couch on movie night, you flip the video feed
>over to your video box and up pops a menu for video playback. You can
>scroll through your dvd collection based on genre, year, or search for
>actors or whatever. When you pick a movie up pops the scan of the dvd
>box and a brief description of the movie (this could be easily pulled
>from imdb or amazon or many other sources). Hitting the play button
>starts playing the files and there are options to either jump to the
>main menu or to just start playing the movie when the play button is
>hit. In another room other family members want to watch a different
>movie. In that room is also a video box accessing the same server.
>They are watching either a different movie or maybe the same movie, it
>doesn't matter.
>
>As far as the legalities go. It is not illegal to backup your dvd to
>your hard drive for playing through another dvd player. Just like it
>is not illegal to backup your cd to your HD to play through a music
>player. You could say, well people are just going to rent movies from
>netflix and dump them to their hard drives for playing through this
>device. Ok, so what if they do? How is that any different from
>someone going to the library to rent a music cd then ripping it to
>their HD to play through their squeezebox. Or getting all of a
>friends collection of cds and ripping them?
>
>Video servers are here and will only be getting better. I would hate
>to see slim not move forward with the rest of the industry like turtle
>beach has done with their audiotron.
>
>On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 13:05:04 +0000, Joe Hickey <joe (AT) hotandstripey (DOT) org> wrote:
>
>
>>I don't understand...
>>
>>apart from new toy syndrome, why do people want a video server? films
>>aren't like music, you (generally) don't mix and match a playlist of
>>different films... you think I'm going to watch so and so, is it worth
>>$4000 to be able to sit on your fat a*** and choose the film via remote
>>rather than walking over to your shelf of DVDs?
>>
>>If you want to use a remote to choose films go to sky box office (or
>>whatever the cable/satellite pay per view is called in your country),
>>you could watch 1000 different films and still not have paid as much as
>>you would for a video server!
>>
>>Cheers
>>
>>Joe
>>
>>On 12 Jan 2005, at 23:16, discuss-request (AT) lists (DOT) slimdevices.com wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>Subject: [slim] Nice box...
>>>Reply-To: Slim Devices Discussion <discuss (AT) lists (DOT) slimdevices.com>
>>>
>>>
>>>I think folks need to come to grips with reality a bit here. You start
>>>putting together a list of things you would need to do in order to do
>>>video
>>>from the PC and you easily are talking about a $4000-$5000 or more
>>>price tag
>>>just for a home video setup through your PC.
>>>
>>>
>>

Danny Rego
2005-01-13, 09:38
Just incase you haven't checked it out...the XBox Media Extender looks like
it could probably replace my usage of XBMC. The media extender makes the
XBox act exactly like the interface on MCE (Windows Media Center).
Hopefully, I'll have my hands on one soon.

(just thought I'd mention it, incase it interests anyone)

Danny Rego


----- Original Message -----
From: "Jules Taplin" <slim-discuss (AT) ourhouse (DOT) org.uk>
To: "Slim Devices Discussion" <discuss (AT) lists (DOT) slimdevices.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2005 11:25 AM
Subject: [slim] Was Nice box, now video server


> Sounds thoroughly decent to me. And pretty much a reality now, to be
> honest.
>
> Most of my DVD's have stored images on a server up in the server room (as
> the broom closet that the estate agent laughingly called 'Bedroom 4' is
> now referred to). You get quite a few of them once you do a little
> transcoding, and stick a stack of 200GB HDD's together. Modded Xbox's see
> it on xbmc, which is pretty sweet in it's own right, but for preference -
> I still use mythtv on a PC plugged into the Plasma and the Surround Sound
> decoder in the lounge. MythVideo already does pretty much all you
> describe - down to the IMDB-harvested information for the movie in
> question. And, of course, the other PC's around the place can just use VLC
> or similar, and navigate the directory heirachy to what you want to watch.
>
> And to be honest... it's not just about DVD's. The previous poster has a
> point that you probably don't watch the same DVD anywhere near as often as
> you'd listen to the same mp3. However... that's not the point. The
> interesting game is to have enough storage around that you can happily
> archive any TV series that you'd normally watch, and retain them
> permanently. It's the same process as capturing entire series of
> programmes by painstakingly programming the VCR... but nicely automated.
> My TiVo works out what I'd like to watch... and a set of perl scripts
> which interrogate it, and queue transcoding, and storage of all the
> episodes. When I first started the scripts... I was adding about 6 hours
> of TV per day to the archive. It works well because Satellite TV has such
> a fast turnaround of repeats. Nowadays, TiVo still grabs about the same,
> but the scripts throw away great traunches of it, as I already got that
> episode last time it was on.
>
> This way... it doesn't matter what's actually on the Telly - there's
> always something to watch. And... . I never accidentally get exposed to
> irritating adverts, or Reality TV of any form... ;)
>
>
> -- Jules
>
>
>
> Michael Alletto wrote:
>
>>First, lets get this out of the way. It does NOT cost 4 grand to
>>create one of these devices. That is an extreme exaggeration. Are
>>there devices that do this and more that cost that much? Yeah there
>>are. But there are also devices that aren't as elegent yet that cost
>>much much less that are quickly becoming really good options.
>>
>>Now on to why I would want one. The concept is the same as a jukebox.
>> I own a ton of dvd's that take up a physical space. I have a single
>>disc dvd player. The ability to store all my dvd's on hard discs and
>>make them easily and quickly playable is the main reason. It is
>>exactly the same reasons as to why we've got all our cd's ripped to
>>mp3's (or whatever format) for streaming via the squeezebox. Why did
>>we all want a music server? To create groupings of music to play
>>easily and quickly and to store all our music in one central location.
>> CD's or DVD's, it is exactly the same thing. There is no difference.
>>
>>Suggesting to just use video on demand through your cable system
>>proves how much people really don't get it. Why should I pay 8 bucks
>>(or whatever it costs) to the cable company each time I want to watch
>>a movie to send a movie across to me in a quality that is just a
>>little better than vhs? If I want to watch it again I have to pay
>>again and again. The selection is very limited and the quality flat
>>out sucks.
>>
>>Imagine sitting on your couch on movie night, you flip the video feed
>>over to your video box and up pops a menu for video playback. You can
>>scroll through your dvd collection based on genre, year, or search for
>>actors or whatever. When you pick a movie up pops the scan of the dvd
>>box and a brief description of the movie (this could be easily pulled
>>from imdb or amazon or many other sources). Hitting the play button
>>starts playing the files and there are options to either jump to the
>>main menu or to just start playing the movie when the play button is
>>hit. In another room other family members want to watch a different
>>movie. In that room is also a video box accessing the same server. They
>>are watching either a different movie or maybe the same movie, it
>>doesn't matter.
>>
>>As far as the legalities go. It is not illegal to backup your dvd to
>>your hard drive for playing through another dvd player. Just like it
>>is not illegal to backup your cd to your HD to play through a music
>>player. You could say, well people are just going to rent movies from
>>netflix and dump them to their hard drives for playing through this
>>device. Ok, so what if they do? How is that any different from
>>someone going to the library to rent a music cd then ripping it to
>>their HD to play through their squeezebox. Or getting all of a
>>friends collection of cds and ripping them?
>>
>>Video servers are here and will only be getting better. I would hate
>>to see slim not move forward with the rest of the industry like turtle
>>beach has done with their audiotron.
>>
>>On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 13:05:04 +0000, Joe Hickey <joe (AT) hotandstripey (DOT) org>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>I don't understand...
>>>
>>>apart from new toy syndrome, why do people want a video server? films
>>>aren't like music, you (generally) don't mix and match a playlist of
>>>different films... you think I'm going to watch so and so, is it worth
>>>$4000 to be able to sit on your fat a*** and choose the film via remote
>>>rather than walking over to your shelf of DVDs?
>>>
>>>If you want to use a remote to choose films go to sky box office (or
>>>whatever the cable/satellite pay per view is called in your country),
>>>you could watch 1000 different films and still not have paid as much as
>>>you would for a video server!
>>>
>>>Cheers
>>>
>>>Joe
>>>
>>>On 12 Jan 2005, at 23:16, discuss-request (AT) lists (DOT) slimdevices.com wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Subject: [slim] Nice box...
>>>>Reply-To: Slim Devices Discussion <discuss (AT) lists (DOT) slimdevices.com>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>I think folks need to come to grips with reality a bit here. You start
>>>>putting together a list of things you would need to do in order to do
>>>>video
>>>>from the PC and you easily are talking about a $4000-$5000 or more
>>>>price tag
>>>>just for a home video setup through your PC.
>>>>
>>>