PDA

View Full Version : Pitastic



Man in a van
2019-06-24, 01:25
https://www.raspberrypi.org/

Haven't yet read the puff:eek:

d6jg
2019-06-24, 02:08
https://www.raspberrypi.org/

Haven't yet read the puff:eek:


I saw the announcement the other day. The increased RAM versions should be ideal for an LMS server with storage via USB3

Apesbrain
2019-06-24, 06:47
I wish they'd add a S/PDIF output. That 1/8" jack could easily be a combo mini-optical/analog.

d6jg
2019-06-24, 07:14
I wish they'd add a S/PDIF output. That 1/8" jack could easily be a combo mini-optical/analog.

I use one of these for that job
https://hifime.uk/DACs/sabre-dac-uae23

Apesbrain
2019-06-24, 14:55
I use one of these for that job
https://hifime.uk/DACs/sabre-dac-uae23
Sure, just as I use a HiFiBerry HAT, but how much more elegant it would be to just put S/PDIF on the board!

cliveb
2019-06-25, 01:34
I saw the announcement the other day. The increased RAM versions should be ideal for an LMS server with storage via USB3
My Pi3 works perfectly as an LMS server. And I've got an old Pi1 running as a player.
The extra capability of the Pi4 is welcome for lots of applications, but not really relevant to us.

d6jg
2019-06-25, 01:42
My Pi3 works perfectly as an LMS server. And I've got an old Pi1 running as a player.
The extra capability of the Pi4 is welcome for lots of applications, but not really relevant to us.

I slightly disagree. The weak point of the Pi to date has been the shared bus for the LAN & USB. In normal use it doesn't show itself but if you run 24/7 and have a bunch of synced players connected to it then you will notice some "drift" that you don't get with more traditional hardware. If I read correctly the Pi4 has 1. a true Gigabit LAN and 2. USB3 which I don't think share the same bus (yet to see it stated conclusively though). If this is the case a Pi4 with 2GB RAM and some USB3 attached storage will make a great LMS server. Overkill as a player without doubt and anything more than 2GB RAM would be a waste of money for a server. I'll be interested to see how the guys who develop piCorePlayer decide to deal with the increased RAM available.

bpa
2019-06-25, 02:17
I slightly disagree. The weak point of the Pi to date has been the shared bus for the LAN & USB. In normal use it doesn't show itself but if you run 24/7 and have a bunch of synced players connected to it then you will notice some "drift" that you don't get with more traditional hardware. If I read correctly the Pi4 has 1. a true Gigabit LAN and 2. USB3 which I don't think share the same bus (yet to see it stated conclusively though). If this is the case a Pi4 with 2GB RAM and some USB3 attached storage will make a great LMS server. Overkill as a player without doubt and anything more than 2GB RAM would be a waste of money for a server. I'll be interested to see how the guys who develop piCorePlayer decide to deal with the increased RAM available.

I agree USB / LAN has been a weak point and the following blog post ( https://blog.hackster.io/meet-the-new-raspberry-pi-4-model-b-9b4698c284 ) seems to indicate that this has been fixed old shared LAN /USB via LAN7515 chip has been replaced by a PCiE bus separating LAN chip from USB bus.

slartibartfast
2019-06-25, 03:59
My Pi3 works perfectly as an LMS server. And I've got an old Pi1 running as a player.
The extra capability of the Pi4 is welcome for lots of applications, but not really relevant to us.I use MusicIP which can use a lot of RAM so an increase would be very welcome if swap space can be avoided.

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

Daverz
2019-06-27, 02:14
My Pi3 works perfectly as an LMS server. And I've got an old Pi1 running as a player.
The extra capability of the Pi4 is welcome for lots of applications, but not really relevant to us.

If you have time to check, it would be interesting to know how big your library is (tracks and playing time) and and how long it takes to do a full clear and rescan.

Man in a van
2019-06-27, 05:00
Mine arrived this morning, 4 GB.

I only have a small library;

on my old Shuttle with its Intel(R) Atom(TM) CPU D2700 @ 2.13GHz


The server has finished scanning your media library.
Total Time: 00:02:22 (Wed, 12 Jun 2019 / 8.53)


on the new pi 4B


The server has finished scanning your media library.
Total Time: 00:00:36 (Thursday, June 27, 2019 / 12:06 PM)

I'm running LMS on the Raspbian Desktop OS, remote access via VNC (a little hacking at first, to get it working) I don't have the required HDMI cable :eek:

ronnie

mherger
2019-06-27, 05:46
> on my old Shuttle with its Intel(R) Atom(TM) CPU D2700 @ 2.13GHz
>>
>> The server has finished scanning your media library.
>> Total Time: 00:02:22 (Wed, 12 Jun 2019 / 8.53)
>
> on the new pi 4B
>
>> The server has finished scanning your media library.
>> Total Time: 00:00:36 (Thursday, June 27, 2019 / 12:06 PM)

Is this using the same set of plugins?

--

Michael

kidstypike
2019-06-27, 05:54
Mine arrived this morning, 4 GB.

Where did you get your 4GB Pi from? :p

Jeff07971
2019-06-27, 06:36
Where did you get your 4GB Pi from? :p

CPC have 1,2 and 4 GB Pi 4's

Edit: My Bad ! They did have yesterday !

https://cpc.farnell.com/MarketingProductList?storeId=10180&catalogId=15002&langId=69&orderCode=SC15183,SC15184,SC15185

mherger
2019-06-27, 06:55
> CPC have 1,2 and 4 GB Pi 4's

Not on stock, do they?

--

Michael

Man in a van
2019-06-27, 06:59
Where did you get your 4GB Pi from? :p


OKdo (a sub branch of RS)

RS say they will have stock later in July, I think.

CPC, RS (and OKdo) seem to have better prices :p

Man in a van
2019-06-27, 07:06
@mherger

Actually running more Plugins on the pi.

I ran the scan on the pi before installing any Plugins

I have just a "clear and rescan" on the fully loaded pi


The server has finished scanning your media library.
Total Time: 00:01:45 (Thursday, June 27, 2019 / 3:03 PM

Much more representative, I think, but still good :)

ronnie

is the chocolate running down the mountains?

Man in a van
2019-06-27, 07:08
Showing in stock

https://www.okdo.com/product-choice/pi4models/

slartibartfast
2019-06-27, 07:16
Showing in stock

https://www.okdo.com/product-choice/pi4models/Yeah strange that the bundle with the power supply is in stock but the board only is out of stock.

https://www.okdo.com/shop/raspberry-pi/other-accessories/99130100-pi-sbcs/raspberry-pi-4-model-b-board-with-4gb-lpddr4-sdram-board-only/

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

bpa
2019-06-27, 07:18
Showing in stock

https://www.okdo.com/product-choice/pi4models/

What the Irish branch of RS Components (who get deliveries overnight from UK) says

There is always hype and expectation when it comes to any Raspberry Pi launch, therefore we'd like to make our customers aware that RS Components will have no stock at the time of launch and are not expecting to have stock until September 2019. If you are purchasing for personal use, contact sales@okdo.com and a sales contact will be in touch.

kidstypike
2019-06-27, 07:19
Showing in stock

https://www.okdo.com/product-choice/pi4models/

Ordered!

27591

mrw
2019-06-27, 09:20
OKdo (a sub branch of RS)

Thanks for bringing OKdo to my attention. I never saw an announcement from Radiospares (as I still think of them) concerning the launch.

cliveb
2019-06-27, 10:23
If you have time to check, it would be interesting to know how big your library is (tracks and playing time) and and how long it takes to do a full clear and rescan.
I very rarely do a full clear & rescan - usually I just scan for changes when I add new music to the server.

But FYI, I just fired one off:

Tracks: 14190
Albums: 1306
Playing Time: 1112:24:19
Clear+rescan time: 05:57

This is on a stock RPi 3 model B+ running piCorePlayer with the library on a WD Blue SSD attached via USB.

(Now waiting in trepidation for my wife to complain that the "New Music" list has been trashed :-)

chill
2019-06-27, 11:16
Some more numbers for comparison.

My RPi 4 4GB arrived yesterday, so I've had a play with it this evening. I've done a direct comparison against a 3B+. I installed stretch-lite on the 3B+ and buster-lite on the 4. I did a bare minimum install of LMS 7.9.2, with only the default plugins. I used a Sandisk SSD with a USB3 interface adapter.

With the 3B+, a 'clear and rescan' took 6 minutes 30 seconds:
http://www.cjh.me.uk/MyPhotobucket/cache/DIYHifi/RPi3Bplus%20Music%20Scan_800.jpg

On the 4, with the SSD connected to one of the USB2 sockets, this came down to 4:09*:
http://www.cjh.me.uk/MyPhotobucket/cache/DIYHifi/RPi4%20USB2%20Music%20Scan_800.jpg

And with the SSD connected to one of the USB3 sockets, this came down to 3:52:
http://www.cjh.me.uk/MyPhotobucket/cache/DIYHifi/RPi4%20USB3%20Music%20Scan_800.jpg

*I'm a bit puzzled by the 'Find updated coverart files' step in the RPi4 USB2 case - I though that was the MAI plugin, but that's definitely not loaded.

d6jg
2019-06-28, 07:29
4GB back in stock at The Pi Hut - just ordered one

kidstypike
2019-06-28, 07:43
4GB back in stock at The Pi Hut - just ordered one

I emailed Lincoln Binns asking if they intended manufacturing a PI-BOX Pro for the Pi4, MD's reply was:

We sure do, The new Pi is arriving today (Tuesday) and we just need to check measurements and make a prototype before its full launch.

d6jg
2019-06-28, 07:52
I emailed Lincoln Binns asking if they intended manufacturing a PI-BOX Pro for the Pi4, MD's reply was:

We sure do, The new Pi is arriving today (Tuesday) and we just need to check measurements and make a prototype before its full launch.

Excellent news. That is still the best case I have found by some way.

kidstypike
2019-06-28, 08:00
Excellent news. That is still the best case I have found by some way.

I also mentioned the problem with the end plate screws, reply was:

We have sourced a “New” Thread forma which should cut better into the extrusion.

d6jg
2019-06-28, 08:18
I also mentioned the problem with the end plate screws, reply was:

We have sourced a “New” Thread forma which should cut better into the extrusion.

👍

NeverSimple
2019-06-28, 14:16
I emailed Lincoln Binns asking if they intended manufacturing a PI-BOX Pro for the Pi4, MD's reply was:

We sure do, The new Pi is arriving today (Tuesday) and we just need to check measurements and make a prototype before its full launch.

Interesting case, didn't know about that one. I have a Rock64 in an aluminium housing that uses the case as a heatsink, a little extruded part of the case makes contact with the cpu and memory (through heat conducting foil). It really helps to keep the temps down. Would the PI4 need anything like that (or benefit from it)? The Lincoln Binn casing looks like it could do something like that, with the internal plate. Performance and heat production still go togeteher, even on a 'simple' SBC.

Daverz
2019-06-28, 20:20
Some more numbers for comparison.

My RPi 4 4GB arrived yesterday, so I've had a play with it this evening. I've done a direct comparison against a 3B+. I installed stretch-lite on the 3B+ and buster-lite on the 4. I did a bare minimum install of LMS 7.9.2, with only the default plugins. I used a Sandisk SSD with a USB3 interface adapter.

With the 3B+, a 'clear and rescan' took 6 minutes 30 seconds:

On the 4, with the SSD connected to one of the USB2 sockets, this came down to 4:09*:

And with the SSD connected to one of the USB3 sockets, this came down to 3:52:

*I'm a bit puzzled by the 'Find updated coverart files' step in the RPi4 USB2 case - I though that was the MAI plugin, but that's definitely not loaded.

So it seems like USB 2 is not that big a bottleneck for scanning.

Daverz
2019-06-28, 20:21
(Now waiting in trepidation for my wife to complain that the "New Music" list has been trashed :-)

It was for science!

Roland0
2019-06-29, 03:48
I have a Rock64 in an aluminium housing that uses the case as a heatsink, a little extruded part of the case makes contact with the cpu and memory (through heat conducting foil). It really helps to keep the temps down. Would the PI4 need anything like that (or benefit from it)?

Yes:


To reduce thermal output when idling or under light load, the Pi4B reduces the CPU clock speed and voltage. During heavier load the speed and voltage (and hence thermal output) are increased. The internal governor will throttle back both the CPU speed and voltage to make sure the CPU temperature never exceeds 85 degrees C.
The Pi4B will operate perfectly well without any extra cooling and is designed for sprint performance – expecting a light use case on average and ramping up the CPU speed when needed (e.g. when loading a webpage). If a user wishes to load the system continually or operate it at a high temperature at full performance, further cooling may be needed.


Won't be relevant just for running LMS, but will be for other scenarios.

Roland0
2019-06-29, 03:56
So it seems like USB 2 is not that big a bottleneck for scanning.

Access time is much more relevant for scanning performance than throughput, and USB3 won't help with that.
However, the Pi4 supports UASP (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB_Attached_SCSI), which may explain the small improvement.

chill
2019-07-13, 03:17
I've been running the pCP6 beta on a 4GB 4B inside my amplifier enclosure. Some first impressions on the heat issues:

Running LMS and Squeezelite seem to provide only a very light load to the 4B. CPU temperature seems to be dominated by the ambient temperature and limited airflow inside my amplifier enclosure. So with the amplifier powered up and playing music from Squeezelite, the CPU sits in the mid- to high-60s. I can easily get it into the low 70s by doing something more demanding, like transcoding a FLAC album with oggenc, but for the majority of the time when it's just being a server and a player the temperature seems under control.

I realise this is not an ideal environment for a device that may be marginal on heat, and I may end up swapping the 3B+ back in, but the extra responsiveness of the server, quicker library scans, and even the faster reboots are all nice to have. I suppose I don't really need the server to be running on this device, so I could even put an older Pi in there and just run Squeezelite on it, and run LMS on the 4B externally, but my target was always to have an all-in-one integrated amp.

As an aside, the amplifier enclosure is incredibly efficient at cooling. I'm using a 'Dissipante' enclosure, which has sides that are giant aluminium 'wave' profile heatsinks. I have my UcD400OEM modules mounted directly to these heatsinks, and even when pumping out the volume the heatsinks are never more than vaguely warm to the touch.

https://cdn2.shopify.com/s/files/1/1006/5046/products/1PD03300N_4521dce5-9c10-4389-84ef-5ee22b88be8a_1024x1024.jpg
https://cdn2.shopify.com/s/files/1/1006/5046/products/DSC_9912-900x600_1024x1024.jpg

Jeff07971
2019-07-13, 03:28
Connect the CPU of the Pi4 to the heatsinks, That'll warm them up :D :D :D

chill
2019-07-13, 03:42
Connect the CPU of the Pi4 to the heatsinks, That'll warm them up :D :D :D

Indeed it might!

I have the Pi mounted to the front panel via my button PCB: the button PCB mounts to the chassis front panel, and the Pi mounts behind this PCB via the GPIO pins, hat-style. I currently use nylon stand-offs/spacers, but I'm thinking I might swap to brass to provide some degree of thermal conductivity. The front panel will be 10mm aluminium, so if I can get at least some of the heat into that it should dissipate quite nicely. It would be nice to have some sort of direct thermal connection between the CPU and the chassis - I might just use a strip of aluminium, say 3mm thick, formed into a dog-leg shape and a bit of thermal paste to hold it in place.

Jeff07971
2019-07-13, 03:49
Indeed it might!

I have the Pi mounted to the front panel via my button PCB: the button PCB mounts to the chassis front panel, and the Pi mounts behind this PCB via the GPIO pins, hat-style. I currently use nylon stand-offs/spacers, but I'm thinking I might swap to brass to provide some degree of thermal conductivity. The front panel will be 10mm aluminium, so if I can get at least some of the heat into that it should dissipate quite nicely. It would be nice to have some sort of direct thermal connection between the CPU and the chassis - I might just use a strip of aluminium, say 3mm thick, formed into a dog-leg shape and a bit of thermal paste to hold it in place.

Its a pity that Raspberry did not flip the processor to the "underside" of the board, then you could have good cooling AND a HAT !
From reports I've read the board itself is a significant part of the thermal design, maybe they'll change to an aluminium substrate though this is an expensive option
Hopefully someone will come up with somthing, maybe a CNC ali plate might work well IE Between the Pi and Hat to allow a heatsink of resonable size to be fitted

chill
2019-07-13, 04:15
That's interesting if the board is part of the thermal design. If the heat is intended to reach the mounting holes, then brass stand-offs should help to pull that heat away. Another option is to use longer stand-offs and make the 'hat' connection via a short ribbon cable. That'll create a bit more space around the CPU. Yes, it would have been good to have the CPU on the underside (for my installation certainly), but I suspect they were conscious that this could affect compatibility with a lot of earlier installations/cases/fans etc.

Man in a van
2019-07-13, 04:38
I saw this mentioned (https://shop.pimoroni.com/products/fan-shim)

over on

https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/



There are lots of threads about the "thermal" problem (and some solutions offered or suggested).

There are quite a few reasonably priced solutions appearing already and more, no doubt, to come.:)

chill
2019-07-13, 05:03
There are quite a few reasonably priced solutions appearing already and more, no doubt, to come.:)

I suspect you're right - there'll be more of that type of solution in no time. I think I'll work on making space for such a solution. I'm sure those fans are quiet, but it would be nice to keep it passive, given that it's an amplifier. I suspect that just making a bit of space to breathe will be enough in my situation, and if not then a bigger heatsink or a thermal connection to my enclosure will be plenty.

Here's a quick mock-up:
http://www.cjh.me.uk/MyPhotobucket/cache/DIYHifi/RPi%20Board/Long%20brass%20stand-offs_640.jpg

http://www.cjh.me.uk/MyPhotobucket/cache/DIYHifi/RPi%20Board/Long%20brass%20stand-offs%202_640.jpg

The sharp-eyed among you will spot that that's not a 4B - that's because I haven't yet drilled out the mounting holes to 3mm in my spare 'BNIB' 1GB 4B. And the ribbon connectors aren't clamped down (no point wasting them), but as a proof of concept it'll do. Unfortunately, when there's a ribbon connector on the pins there isn't room for stand-offs on the two adjacent mounting holes, but the two on the opposite edge of the board seem to be rigid enough.

Jeff07971
2019-07-13, 08:10
Yes, it would have been good to have the CPU on the underside (for my installation certainly), but I suspect they were conscious that this could affect compatibility with a lot of earlier installations/cases/fans etc.

They seem to have broken compatability with all other Pi's anyway I don't think one connector is in the same place.

Man in a van
2019-07-14, 03:25
Yesterday I imaged a new Raspbian Buster on my rpi4B (4gb). There is an updated image on the raspberry site.

I ran the updates and install a sceensaver and PiShrink, but kept the install as standard.

Right now I'm building a librespot Spotify-Connect client.

There is a neat little thermometer on the rpi desktop.

I ran


sudo vcgencmd measure_temp

and got 82.0 C :rolleyes:

ronnie

Man in a van
2019-07-14, 03:37
The build completed in just over 26 minutes.

The warning thermometer disappeared and the temp dropped to 71.0 C.

phew! what a scorcher :p

chill
2019-07-14, 04:14
and got 82.0 C :rolleyes:


Presumably it was throttling at that stage, or was it just a quick temperature spike?

I keep reading that a heatsink or fan is not needed for the safety of the RPi, because the throttling is the failsafe. My impression is that pCP running just LMS and Squeezelite isn't going to load the 4B enough to cause throttling. But if something else causes the temperature to spike and cause throttling, my guess is that that wouldn't have very much effect on LMS, given that it isn't a heavy load.

I implemented the longer brass stand-offs to create a bit of space around the CPU. I went for three 11mm lengths rather than 4 as in my earlier photo.

http://www.cjh.me.uk/MyPhotobucket/cache/DIYHifi/RPi%20Board/Long%20brass%20stand-offs%203_640.jpg

This has dropped the temperature by 2-3 degrees. The key seems to be the extra airflow. My small heatsink is arranged so that the fins are vertical, so that air flows between the fins. The ribbon cable still blocks the airflow a bit, but it's improved with the longer stand-offs. And hopefully when those stand-offs connect to a big 10mm aluminium front panel that will help a bit too.

The extra space would allow me to fit a fan or a bigger heatsink. A bigger heatsink provides extra thermal mass, so can absorb more heat energy and smooth out short spikes in temperature. But unless it also benefits from extra airflow then it won't necessarily do much to control temperature in the longer term - once it heats up the benefit is lost unless it can also be cooled. So my aim is to search for a heatsink that has a greater area than the CPU area, i.e. so that it presents a wider profile to the rising airflow and benefits from more of that airflow. The extra space also allows me to consider some kind of direct thermal connection to the amplifier chassis. I'm going to experiment with some folded-over aluminium foil to act as a thermal bridge.

Man in a van
2019-07-14, 04:33
Presumably it was throttling at that stage, or was it just a quick temperature spike?



Throttling I guess, or just a warning, it was present for the whole of the build.

Apparently it also appeared in Jessie.

It was the first time I had seen it as normally I do the build from my Windows Desktop with no monior on the pi.

Apparently switching of the 4k setting and some other tweaks help to reduce the heat (also running properly headless, to which I may return...we'll see..sigh).

chill
2019-07-14, 05:24
My improvised thermal bridge - a few folds of aluminium foil wedged between the fins of the small heatsink. The foil doesn't grip very well, so it's held in place with clear tape, but if I go ahead with this then a bit of thermal paste should do the job:
http://www.cjh.me.uk/MyPhotobucket/cache/DIYHifi/RPi%20Board/Aluminium%20foil%201_640.jpg

Not yet bridged to the chassis heatsink, just flapping around in free air:
http://www.cjh.me.uk/MyPhotobucket/cache/DIYHifi/RPi%20Board/Aluminium%20foil%202_640.jpg

Surprisingly it's knocked another 4-5 degrees off. Here's a plot of temperature from a 4 minute 'oggenc'. Previously this took the temperature into the low 70s. Here it seems to have levelled off at 63 degrees before the oggenc process finished and it started to cool down again immediately.

http://www.cjh.me.uk/MyPhotobucket/cache/DIYHifi/RPi%20Board/Aluminium%20foil%20temp_640.jpg

chill
2019-07-14, 05:54
With the foil wedged so that it's making good contact with the enclosure the performance is a couple of degrees worse than the 'free air' example, but I think a few more folds of foil, some thermal compound, and the 10mm aluminium front panel should all help to claw a bit back. I'm quite happy that it'll stay comfortably cool in normal operation.

kidstypike
2019-07-15, 11:20
I emailed Lincoln Binns asking if they intended manufacturing a PI-BOX Pro for the Pi4, MD's reply was:

We sure do, The new Pi is arriving today (Tuesday) and we just need to check measurements and make a prototype before its full launch.

Hmm . . . I hope they come up with something workable, the Pi4 gets hot in a case. :(

First picture below shows the temp graph after 64 minutes, for a Pi3B+ in a complete PI-BOX Pro case, serving 2 synced players with a playlist of mixed mp3 and flac files.

Second picture shows the temp graph after 64 minutes for a Pi4 (4GB) serving just one player, (same SSD, same library, same playlist), in a PI-BOX Pro case without the back plate fitted (it needs some work to allow for the different USB and ethernet port positions). The internal carrier plate is easily filed to fit around the ethernet port. The converter board wasn't used (doesn't fit), without the back plate fitted the power USB (C) can be plugged directly into the Pi.

27685

27686

chill
2019-07-15, 13:49
I think 80 degrees is the temperature at which throttling kicks in to control the temperature. Did you notice any effect on LMS - was it any less snappy?

kidstypike
2019-07-15, 13:58
I think 80 degrees is the temperature at which throttling kicks in to control the temperature. Did you notice any effect on LMS - was it any less snappy?

No, I wasn't actually doing anything, just listening to music and watching the temp graph (like you do :)).

Man in a van
2019-07-16, 04:39
Well yesterday I ordered one of these,

https://shop.pimoroni.com/products/fan-shim?variant=29210095812691&currency=GBP&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=google+shopping&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI-uy276m54wIVx7HtCh1IxwM7EAQYASABEgKOWvD_BwE


then I ordered the header (sigh) just in case and a case,

https://shop.pimoroni.com/products/pibow-coupe-4?variant=29210100170835


they were pushed through the letterbox this morning.

I have a Raspnian Desktop image


Raspbian Buster with desktop Image with desktop based on Debian Buster

Version: July 2019
Release date: 2019-07-10

Kernel version: 4.19





with a librespot Spotify-Connect client.

I assembled fan, header and case and powered up.

The fan began to spin and was just audible at about half a metre in a quiet room (faint noise, I would call it).

Started to play Music and ran a temerature check, got 42C. Played a Ry Cooder You Tube via the Chromium browser, same temp.

Swapped the sd card for a pCP install and started fip radio, temp given as 44C, I just checked again and it's 43C.

Seems to work.

Pimoroni offer a script for raspbian which allows the fan to run automatically to a preset temerature.

ronnie

I have no idea how long the thing will last though :p:rolleyes:

Man in a van
2019-07-16, 05:30
I just ran the Pimoroni install instructions for automatic control of the fan and set it at the second "example" given.


pi@raspberrypi:~ $ vcgencmd measure_temp
temp=51.0'C
pi@raspberrypi:~ $ sudo systemctl status pimoroni-fanshim.service
● pimoroni-fanshim.service - Fan Shim Service
Loaded: loaded (/etc/systemd/system/pimoroni-fanshim.service; enabled; vendor preset: enabled)
Active: active (running) since Tue 2019-07-16 13:17:16 BST; 7min ago
Main PID: 591 (python3)
Tasks: 2 (limit: 4915)
Memory: 9.9M
CGroup: /system.slice/pimoroni-fanshim.service
└─591 python3 /home/pi/fanshim-python/examples/automatic.py --threshold 55 --hysteresis 2.5 --delay 2

Jul 16 13:17:16 raspberrypi systemd[1]: Started Fan Shim Service.
pi@raspberrypi:~ $ vcgencmd measure_temp
temp=54.0'C
pi@raspberrypi:~ $


I have installed LMS and I'll pop Squeezelite on later today.

ronnie

chill
2019-07-16, 05:50
Well yesterday I ordered one of these,

https://shop.pimoroni.com/products/fan-shim?variant=29210095812691&currency=GBP&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=google+shopping&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI-uy276m54wIVx7HtCh1IxwM7EAQYASABEgKOWvD_BwE



That seems quite effective. Will be interesting to see if it can hold 55 degrees under load. Remind me - is your 4B in any sort of case?

I've ordered a larger heatsink (40mm x 40mm x 11mm), just to see if the extra side length is enough to make any difference. It'll need a small adjustment to fit around the camera connector, but if it works to dissipate more heat energy (rather than just storing more) it'll be simpler to use than my Heath-Robinson thermal link to the amplifier chassis.

In the meantime I wrote my first ever Python script (yay!), to plot a longer term CPU temperature log.

http://www.cjh.me.uk/MyPhotobucket/cache/DIYHifi/RPi%20Board/RPi4%20CPU%20Temperature%20Log%20test_640.jpg

Man in a van
2019-07-16, 06:44
That seems quite effective. Will be interesting to see if it can hold 55 degrees under load. Remind me - is your 4B in any sort of case?




and a case,

https://shop.pimoroni.com/products/pibow-coupe-4?variant=29210100170835




Still showing 55C


pi@raspberrypi:~ $ vcgencmd measure_temp
temp=55.0'C
pi@raspberrypi:~ $

chill
2019-07-16, 06:50
then I ordered the header (sigh) just in case and a case,

https://shop.pimoroni.com/products/pibow-coupe-4?variant=29210100170835



D'Oh!

Jeff07971
2019-07-16, 06:51
Still showing 55C


pi@raspberrypi:~ $ vcgencmd measure_temp
temp=55.0'C
pi@raspberrypi:~ $


Has the ambient temperature changed while the measurement is being made ?

Do not forget that heatsink "effeciency" is above ambient IE if ambient goes down 10 C so will the chip temp all things being equal.

THe chip temperature will be an absolute temperature

Man in a van
2019-07-16, 08:56
Hi Jeff

No major change in the ambient, it may have increased a couple of degrees since I started this morning.

I got the command from here

https://linuxhint.com/raspberry_pi_temperature_monitor/


Just checked again


pi@raspberrypi:~ $ vcgencmd measure_temp
temp=54.0'C
pi@raspberrypi:~ $ vcgencmd measure_temp | egrep -o '[0-9]*\.[0-9]*'
56.0
pi@raspberrypi:~ $


I found a little tutorial (https://www.cyberciti.biz/faq/linux-find-out-raspberry-pi-gpu-and-arm-cpu-temperature-command/) and now have a bash script :)




pi@raspberrypi:~ $ ./my-pi-temp.sh
Tue 16 Jul 16:49:24 BST 2019 @ raspberrypi
-------------------------------------------
GPU => temp=54.0'C
CPU => 55'C



The area where the pi is can get fairly warm in the morning if the sun is up, I'll just monitor the readings for a a day or so.

chill
2019-07-17, 13:50
My 40mm x 40mm x 11mm heatsink arrived today. It just about fits without having to be trimmed around the camera connector. I used a thermal pad to fix it to the CPU.

http://www.cjh.me.uk/MyPhotobucket/cache/DIYHifi/RPi%20Board/Heatsink1_640.jpg

http://www.cjh.me.uk/MyPhotobucket/cache/DIYHifi/RPi%20Board/Heatsink2_640.jpg

It seems to do the job. I ran approx 20 minutes of oggenc jobs, and simultaneously did a library 'clear and rescan'. The temperature got up to the low 70s, and then cooled back down to ~63 degrees. The 'background' temperature inside my amplifier seems to be the dominant factor. I think this is simpler than trying to connect the CPU to my amplifier chassis.

http://www.cjh.me.uk/MyPhotobucket/cache/DIYHifi/RPi%20Board/underload_640.jpg

Jeff07971
2019-07-17, 14:22
Chill,

Actually looks like quite a good fit.

I think its becoming clear that without "active" cooling a Pi4 working hard (and not throttling) in a closed case is going to be difficult !

chill
2019-07-19, 01:20
Chill,

Actually looks like quite a good fit.

I think its becoming clear that without "active" cooling a Pi4 working hard (and not throttling) in a closed case is going to be difficult !

The fit was much more convenient than I expected - it slid in between the two ribbon cable sockets, touching both but without forcing them in any way.

I think you're right - any serious continuous load will require active cooling if the aim is to avoid throttling. Fortunately for this discussion, LMS+Squeezelite don't seem to represent a serious continuous load. And I suspect that even if throttling does kick in, Squeezelite would be unaffected and LMS only marginally, if at all.

For a bit of fun I logged the CPU temperature on the 4B in my amplifier for a 24 hour period:

http://www.cjh.me.uk/MyPhotobucket/cache/DIYHifi/RPi%20Board/pcp_cpu_temp_18JUL_640.jpg

I can see:
- the gradual cooling of the amplifier after it was shut down at the end of the previous day.
- a brief spike at 2am where the cron script runs to take a backup of the SD card.
- a slight rise in temperature just after 10am. I think this could be when the sun hits the amplifier for a short period, and then as the sun moves on the amplifier cools down again.
- a very clear warm up just before 6pm, when the amplifier was powered up. During the evening the amplifier variously played Squeezebox music and TV sound, and there's no clear difference in temperature - it just sits at around 65 degrees, which must be dominated by the ambient temperature inside the amplifier.