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pippin
2019-03-30, 09:46
Dear fiends and users of ickStream,

Over the last 7 years we have tried to build a bridge between quickly evolving streaming music market and the longer-term focused audio hardware market. We have learned that sometimes legal and strategic aspects are more important than to have a good and affordable product that solves a problem for a customer. We have come to a point where proceeding would require significant investments in time and money and this is something we can't justify ourselves at this stage.

Due to all these developments and with a heavy heart we have to announce that we don't see a perspective for us to keep operating the ickStream service for an extended time.

Therefore, we decided to shut down the ickStream service at the end of May 2019.
After that, the ickStream services and any ickStream plugins you may use will cease to function.

As a user, you might want to look out for alternative service implementations.

As a partner or user of our technology, please be aware that products relying on our services will no longer work after that date.

If your company still feels the need to use some of our technology or has the need for or interest in a continued service, please feel free to contact us, we are open for all kind of options including licensing, sale of our technology or the ickStream GmbH company.

Our open source software will still be available under the license agreements they were published under, restrictions (especially those imposed by third parties) will continue to apply. Unfortunately, releasing the whole platform under open source is not an option due to restrictions imposed by our streaming service partners.

For users of the Squeezebox platform: you will find that for a lot of the services which were supported through ickStream there are alternatives, either through Logitech's MySqueezebox.com service or third part plugins.

The iPeng App is unrelated to ickStream and will continue to work and will be see continued development going forward.

It was a pleasure to work with you all, we hope to see you all again in other circumstances.

Cheers
Your ickStream team

garym
2019-03-30, 10:03
Sad, but understandable. Thanks to you and the team for all your hard work.

dagb
2019-04-09, 12:08
Thank You.

I have used your services for a number of years. A very satisfied user.

I have a vague notion that the plugin I was using prior to ickstream was going unsupported or stopped working. Switched to ickstream and never looked back.
I now see that the 'native' plugin I need for my streaming service works (again?), so all is good.

Good luck, and thanks again.

Dag B

woodster
2019-04-10, 01:38
Ahh.. sad to hear

IckStream has been working flawlessly for me through a couple of years...

I was able to stream different songs to different players - is that something that is possible with the official Tidal App?

Futurewise / featurewise is it possible to release the IckStream platform as a project that can be deployed on a local server - or does it end up in legal issues?

Regards...

callesoroe
2019-04-10, 04:05
I was able to stream different songs to different players - is that something that is possible with the official Tidal App?


Yes. That works fine as long as you use squeezeboxes. But if you start the Tidal APP on a cellphone og PC, squeezebox will stop after the song it is playing.

woodster
2019-04-10, 08:30
Sounds OK then.

Do you install the official Tidal App through the mysqueezebox webpage, or is it though the plugin page in the server.

I tried the App, and I can search for music, but nothing comes out of the players - they are Squeezelite players from the Airplay plugin.


Yes. That works fine as long as you use squeezeboxes. But if you start the Tidal APP on a cellphone og PC, squeezebox will stop after the song it is playing.

erland
2019-04-10, 10:58
Futurewise / featurewise is it possible to release the IckStream platform as a project that can be deployed on a local server - or does it end up in legal issues?


Many of the content services canít be released as open source due to restrictions by streaming partners (since it would expose their private apiís and potentially violate NDAs). The platform itself could theoretically be released as open source but it isnít really suitable to run on a local server, itís optimized for being a central server used by many simultaneous users.

callesoroe
2019-04-10, 23:25
Sounds OK then.

Do you install the official Tidal App through the mysqueezebox webpage, or is it though the plugin page in the server.

I tried the App, and I can search for music, but nothing comes out of the players - they are Squeezelite players from the Airplay plugin.

You have to give in your credentials to Tidal on Mysqeezebox.com. Do you have an old squeezebox registered?

woodster
2019-04-11, 00:09
Many of the content services canít be released as open source due to restrictions by streaming partners (since it would expose their private apiís and potentially violate NDAs). The platform itself could theoretically be released as open source but it isnít really suitable to run on a local server, itís optimized for being a central server used by many simultaneous users.

Okay - makes sense.

Thanks for you work so far....

woodster
2019-04-11, 00:11
You have to give in your credentials to Tidal on Mysqeezebox.com. Do you have an old squeezebox registered?

Hi,

yes I have signed in for the Tidal app at mysqueezebox.com - and it lists my players also.
I can search, get metadata, but no sound, it just skips the tracks quite fast.

woodster
2019-04-11, 12:03
You have to give in your credentials to Tidal on Mysqeezebox.com. Do you have an old squeezebox registered?

I updated the server, added the plugin v 1.2, deleted the account at mysqueezebox, added the account at mysqueezebox.... and now there is music.
And I can even play different songs with the different players.... SUPER :)

peterw
2019-04-11, 21:53
Erland, pippin, et. al., my condolences. I'm sorry to see this venture come to a close and wish you the best.

didjean
2019-04-13, 01:41
Very sad to hear this news. :-/.

Is there a section or a wiki somewhere that lists services and plugins available for Squeezebox that used to be integrated with ickstream. On my side I am using the Qobuz plugin in LMS and very happy with it. But quid for people using e.g. Deezer?

schoeppi
2019-04-13, 03:59
On Sat, 13 Apr 2019 08:41:48 +0000, didjean wrote:
>
> Very sad to hear this news. :-/.

+1! Really sad news. But anyway, a big thanks to all who took care of Ickstream during the last years!

I was using Deezer Hifi via Ickstream for a few years and AFAIK this was the only possibility to stream content in flac from Deezer to the squeezeboxes, because the official Deezer plugin on mysqueezebox.com can only stream in mp3 quality :-(.

Cheers,

Schoepp

erland
2019-04-13, 07:55
Is there a section or a wiki somewhere that lists services and plugins available for Squeezebox that used to be integrated with ickstream. On my side I am using the Qobuz plugin in LMS and very happy with it. But quid for people using e.g. Deezer?

The services available in the open beta of ickStream are shown on this page:
http://wiki.ickstream.com/index.php/Open_Beta_Squeezebox

I think most are available on Squeezebox through mysqueezebox.com and some as third party plugins which can be used without mysqueezebox.com

pippin
2019-04-14, 17:58
Yes, I think Deezer Elite (FLAC) is one of the exceptions not available through MySqueezebox.com.

didjean
2019-04-18, 06:25
Yes, I think Deezer Elite (FLAC) is one of the exceptions not available through MySqueezebox.com.

As I am using Qobuz, I didn't realized that there were no LMS plugin for Tidal nor Deezer? In addition, no plugins for Apple Music or Google Play Music. Moreover, integration for Alexa and Home are also quite difficult.

We are lucky to have Spotty - definitely a great move done by Michael. But for the rest, the offering is becoming quite limited.

Isn't it an issue looking forward? We shouldn't rely on mysqueezebox.com as the service could be shut down quite easily.

mherger
2019-04-18, 06:32
> As I am using Qobuz, I didn't realized that there were no LMS plugin for
> Tidal nor Deezer?

There are plugins for Tidal and Deezer built in to LMS.

--

Michael

didjean
2019-04-18, 13:42
> As I am using Qobuz, I didn't realized that there were no LMS plugin for
> Tidal nor Deezer?

There are plugins for Tidal and Deezer built in to LMS.

--

Michael

I might have missed something: as far as I understand, in order to use Deezer or Tidal with LMS, you need to rely on mysqueezebox.com, right?
I have skipped the mysqueezebox.com in my current LMS install/settings as I prefer to be totally independent of mysqueezebox.com that might shut down sooner or later.

mherger
2019-04-18, 15:12
> I might have missed something: as far as I understand, in order to use
> Deezer or Tidal with LMS, you need to rely on mysqueezebox.com, right?
> I have skipped the mysqueezebox.com in my current LMS install/settings
> as I prefer to be totally independent of mysqueezebox.com that might
> shut down sooner or later.

Isn't it ironic?...

--

Michael

didjean
2019-04-19, 06:13
> I might have missed something: as far as I understand, in order to use
> Deezer or Tidal with LMS, you need to rely on mysqueezebox.com, right?
> I have skipped the mysqueezebox.com in my current LMS install/settings
> as I prefer to be totally independent of mysqueezebox.com that might
> shut down sooner or later.

Isn't it ironic?...

--

Michael

Well I would say it's sad/scary :-). With Ickstream gone, there is no more Tidal/Deezer integration when Msb.com will be shutting down.
I understand the structure of Deezer/Tidal API is different than the one of Qobuz and needs the framework of a platform to integrated?

slartibartfast
2019-04-19, 06:18
Well I would say it's sad/scary :-). With Ickstream gone, there is no more Tidal/Deezer integration when Msb.com will be shutting down.
I understand the structure of Deezer/Tidal API is different than the one of Qobuz and needs the framework of a platform to integrated?The more people that use mysqueezebox.com means it is more likely to continue. If everyone disconnected from it then it would definitely shut down.

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

mherger
2019-04-19, 08:31
> Well I would say it's sad/scary :-). With Ickstream gone, there is no
> more Tidal/Deezer integration when Msb.com will be shutting down.

The irony I mentioned is that you're asking for an alternative for what
is there, because that working thing might go away... and all of this in
a thread which announced the shutdown of the alternative. Why don't you
just use what is there as long as it lasts?

> I understand the structure of Deezer/Tidal API is different than the one
> of Qobuz and needs the framework of a platform to integrated?

It's just that they're a bit less generous when it comes to handing out
information and necessary access to their servers.

--

Michael

didjean
2019-04-19, 13:34
Ok you have a point and understand your point of view Michael: why not use what works.

But since I felt in love with Squeezebox in 2005, I have always been reluctant to use msb.com (or SqueezeNetwork at the time) as radio streams were more stable using the server. Now that the server can easily be installed on a Raspberry Pi and can be left on 24/7 for minimal costs, I decided to totally drop msb as I don't have needs for it.

Personally, I am a happy camper with the existing Qobuz plugin and your great updates :-). I am not looking at moving to Deezer nor Tidal. It's just that I am still recommending and helping installing Squeezebox solutions for friends. I just want to have a clear view on what is feasible or not.

Can Tidal and Deezer via Msb stream in Lossless?

Cheers!

mherger
2019-04-19, 22:00
> Can Tidal and Deezer via Msb stream in Lossless?

Tidal: yes, Deezer: no.


--

Michael

pippin
2019-04-23, 02:22
I understand the structure of Deezer/Tidal API is different than the one of Qobuz and needs the framework of a platform to integrated?

The problem is that with an open source server, if they support an open plugin, the services essentially have to give away an API key to the public.
What that means for them is, if somebody does something they deem critical with that key, the only option they have is to revoke the key and that means they shut down the service for all their users of the whole platform.
Everybody then would have to update the server or plugin, a lot of people probably wouldn't even understand what's happening.

With setups like MySB or ickStream, even if things go awry, they can easily change the key together with the operator because it's only being used in a single place, not on tens of thousands of machines.

In addition to this, some services keep their API secret and require an NDA, in this case you can't distribute the code at all.

peterw
2019-04-23, 18:52
The problem is that with an open source server, if they support an open plugin, the services essentially have to give away an API key to the public.

I disagree. Plenty of companies - from giants like Google to small outfits like Schedules Direct, fully publish APIs but rely on individual customers to pay for API keys or other authentication credentials.


In addition to this, some services keep their API secret and require an NDA, in this case you can't distribute the code at all.

Unfortunately true. I see a big split in business models. On the one side, outfits that guard APIs behind armies of sales teams vying for big dollar contacts; on the other, outfits like Amazon Web Services that will accept pretty much anybody with a credit card and are plenty willing to serve tiny customers like me who are billed only fractions of a dollar each month. I hope all will migrate to the latter model...

pippin
2019-04-23, 19:02
I disagree. Plenty of companies - from giants like Google to small outfits like Schedules Direct, fully publish APIs but rely on individual customers to pay for API keys or other authentication credentials.

All of these companies are masters of their own fate. Music streaming services usually aren't. They have agreements with rights owners about how they have to secure content and most of these tend to be on the more ridiculous side of things.
When we started ickStream, I too though this would somehow be about technology....

The issue is not so much the authentication credential - that's done through the user account.
The problem is having an API key open to the public. I'm not aware of anyone allowing this if there is one.
There are a lot of cases here where it's done, but most of them (like the YouTube plugin etc.) essentially violate some T&Cs.

Of course, you COULD handle this but it requires user action. The user would have to get an API key/authenticate etc. and these APIs are meant for vendors, not users.



Unfortunately true. I see a big split in business models. .... I hope all will migrate to the latter model...

It's not a deliberate choice in this case. And migrating to something that makes sense is usually not an option.

Spotify has had some success in designing something that is both kind of open and works for them and getting that pushed down the throat of rights owners but overall this process has taken them soooo many years.... And they already have the strongest market position of anyone in the business.

peterw
2019-04-23, 19:21
Thanks, pippin, as always, for sharing your insight, and supporting this community.

erland
2019-05-31, 11:22
Just for information to anyone still using ickStream Music Platform.

As we indicated two months ago we have now permanently shutdown the ickStream servers.

At the moment there are no plans to start the ickStream service again but if your company still feels the need to use some of our technology or has the need for or interest in a continued service, please feel free to contact us, we are open for all kind of options including licensing, sale of our technology or the ickStream GmbH company.

badboygolf16v
2019-05-31, 14:17
Could this stop LMS restarting if Ickstream is installed?

loz2103
2019-06-01, 09:14
I think this just killed my LMS! Does anyone know how to remove ickstream from my plugins without using the web UI, as this won't load currently.

Thanks in advance.

Paul Webster
2019-06-01, 09:38
If LMS not starting ... then you may well have to remove that plugin from the file system ... which is trickier if not familiar with Linux command line.

Your plugins will be somewhere like
/usr/local/slimserver/Cache/InstalledPlugins/Plugins

I don't want to suggest using commands to remove everything in a folder just in case you run it from the wrong place and remove too much stuff.

so something like:
cd /usr/local/slimserver/Cache/InstalledPlugins/Plugins
ls

and then you should see a listing of directories - with one of them named something like "ickstream".
If there is then move into it ...
cd ickstream
(make sure that the upper/lower case matches what you see in the listing)
Assuming no errors then ...
rm Plugin.pm

That might be enough to fool LMS ... so then start LMS and see if you get access via web browser ... then you could remove the plugin via the web interface.

Someone with an ickstream installation will be able to give you better instructions.

garym
2019-06-01, 09:51
I had the ickstream plugin installed on a linux install of LMS (vortexbox, using fedora linux). It's existence caused no issues with LMS today. I just went to the LMS webGUI like normal, went to "plugins" tab on settings and unticked ickstream and removed the URL from additional repositories section.

badboygolf16v
2019-06-01, 14:40
My issue happened when I upgraded to a newer version of LMS.

I purged LMS and reinstalled.

garym
2019-06-01, 15:29
I purged LMS and reinstalled.

And now it works OK?

Zombie
2019-06-03, 04:34
I was registered there. They could have sent out a message: We are terminating support for Ickstream, please remove it from LMS.
The plugin is not found in the directory listed above, unless there is another secret, hush, hush layer of directories in the dinosaur MSDOS for anoraks.

atrocity
2019-06-03, 10:10
Just for information to anyone still using ickStream Music Platform.

As we indicated two months ago we have now permanently shutdown the ickStream servers.

At the moment there are no plans to start the ickStream service again but if your company still feels the need to use some of our technology or has the need for or interest in a continued service, please feel free to contact us, we are open for all kind of options including licensing, sale of our technology or the ickStream GmbH company.

I'm sorry that it didn't work out, but tack sŚ mycket very much for trying and sticking with it for as long as you did!

loz2103
2019-06-03, 11:13
For those who are having issues with LMS to start now that ickStream has stopped, i.e. want to uninstall it, but can't get to the web UI, this is what I did

https://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?110624-How-do-you-uninstall-a-plugin-without-the-web-UI-(Linux)&p=942053#post942053

Otto-Wilhelm
2019-06-03, 17:20
I wondered why suddenly my two LMS server installations didn't work anymore, but understand now that the shutdown of ickStream was the reason.
I tinkered several hours over the weekend to get LMS server running again, and will have to invest further hours to reimplement the multi library implementation I had developed. Many thanks to the ichStream team for this very nice farewell present!

mherger
2019-06-03, 20:35
> I wondered why suddenly my two LMS server installations didn't work
> anymore, but understand now that the shutdown of ickStream was the
> reason.

I still don't understand why this would bring down LMS. Slow down
loading of the plugins page maybe. But bring it down? I'll have to
investigate that.

--

Michael

diggerdig
2019-06-05, 01:48
Went away on holiday for a week and came back to discover that I had the same problem as others here - ickStream shutdown killed my LMS dead. No access to settings so had to manually remove the plugin. A quick fix but discovering that it was ickStream took an age.

Scheibuman
2019-06-07, 22:36
I agree. Same here. Uninstall the ick-stream plugin and all will work fine.

Breeker
2019-06-15, 03:55
Went away on holiday for a week and came back to discover that I had the same problem as others here - ickStream shutdown killed my LMS dead. No access to settings so had to manually remove the plugin. A quick fix but discovering that it was ickStream took an age.

But how? LMS is not starting in my case, now trying with Putty but not everyone is a Unix programmer. A message upfront from the Ickstream team would have been polite indeed. I'm on a Vortexbox and have been able to logon via Putty. But don't know how to set the 'fail safe' mode in LMS so that the Ickstream plugin can be removed after a reboot via the GUI.

pippin
2019-06-15, 03:59
A message upfront from the Ickstream team would have been polite indeed.

We have announced it for two months before the shutdown. In this very thread.
Also, you don't need to be a programmer, all you need to do is delete the plugin folder from the Plugins folder.

I agree it's unfortunate that the plugin blocks some setups when the service is unavailable, we only learned about that after the shutdown or we would have tried to remove the plugin before that through an update.
Sorry for the trouble.

Breeker
2019-06-15, 04:05
We have announced it for two months before the shutdown. In this very thread.
Also, you don't need to be a programmer, all you need to do is delete the plugin folder from the Plugins folder.

I agree it's unfortunate that the plugin blocks some setups when the service is unavailable, we only learned about that after the shutdown or we would have tried to remove the plugin before that through an update.
Sorry for the trouble.

Hi Pippin, thanks for your reply. Could you please indicate which Unix commands I need to use (on Vortexbox)? Again: LMS is not starting at all, so I can't use the GUI!

pippin
2019-06-15, 04:08
I don't know exactly where the folder is on Vortexbox, but if you navigate to the InstalledPlugins/Plugins folder, it would then be "rm -r ./ickStreamPlugin"

Breeker
2019-06-15, 04:10
I don't know exactly where the folder is on Vortexbox, but if you navigate to the InstalledPlugins/Plugins folder, it would then be "rm -r ./ickStreamPlugin"

Probably this one I assume > /var/lib/squeezeboxserver/cache/InstalledPlugins/Plugins/

pippin
2019-06-15, 04:11
Probably this one I assume > /var/lib/squeezeboxserver/cache/InstalledPlugins/Plugins/

Yes, that sounds correct.

erland
2019-06-15, 04:14
Probably this one I assume > /var/lib/squeezeboxserver/cache/InstalledPlugins/Plugins/

Yes, that should be it.

If that doesn't work there is also a possibility to start LMS without loading any plugins with failsafe flag (so you can uninstall ickStream through web GUI) as described here:
https://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?110624-How-do-you-uninstall-a-plugin-without-the-web-UI-(Linux)&p=942053#post942053

Breeker
2019-06-15, 04:17
Yes, that sounds correct.

Folder doesn't exist, but when I do a 'systemclt - l status squeezeboxserver' I do get an errormessage regarding the Ickstream plugin '_ANON__(207) Failed to retrieve content services from [...]'

Breeker
2019-06-15, 04:23
Yes, that should be it.

If that doesn't work there is also a possibility to start LMS without loading any plugins with failsafe flag (so you can uninstall ickStream through web GUI) as described here:
https://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?110624-How-do-you-uninstall-a-plugin-without-the-web-UI-(Linux)&p=942053#post942053

Yes but I don't understand that, implying I don't know what you mean by 'edited / etc/ default/logitechmediaserver etc. in the case of my vortexbox. When I do a 'l' for a directorylist in the plugin folder I indeed see all my installed plugins, amongst Ickstream.

pippin
2019-06-15, 04:43
Folder doesn't exist, but when I do a 'systemclt - l status squeezeboxserver' I do get an errormessage regarding the Ickstream plugin '_ANON__(207) Failed to retrieve content services from [...]'

Which folder doesn't exist? I thought you wrote before that it's within the "InstalledPlugins" folder?

Breeker
2019-06-15, 05:02
Which folder doesn't exist? I thought you wrote before that it's within the "InstalledPlugins" folder?

Yes Pippin - when I go to the Installed plugin folder (with the command cd /var/lib/squeezeboxserver/cache/InstalledPlugins) and then I do the command 'rm -r ./IckStreamPlugin' I get the message 'rm: cannot remove 'rm -r ./IckStreamPlugin' : no such file or directory.
Should I first try to delete IckStreamItemCache.db in /var/lib/squeezeboxserver/cache? UPDATE: a sudo did the trick! Now see if I can restart the server. Update: YES! WORKED! So along the way became a Unix programmer ;-)

pippin
2019-06-15, 09:19
Yes Pippin - when I go to the Installed plugin folder (with the command cd /var/lib/squeezeboxserver/cache/InstalledPlugins) and then I do the command 'rm -r ./IckStreamPlugin' I get the message 'rm: cannot remove 'rm -r ./IckStreamPlugin' : no such file or directory.
Should I first try to delete IckStreamItemCache.db in /var/lib/squeezeboxserver/cache? UPDATE: a sudo did the trick! Now see if I can restart the server. Update: YES! WORKED! So along the way became a Unix programmer ;-)

it's ./ickStreamPlugin, not ./IckStreamPlugin
Linux file systems are case sensitive.
You can check through autocomplete by tapping "tab" after entering a few characters.