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BertdeJong
2019-02-09, 09:40
I know that this topic has been discussed at length but I have not found a post with an answer that worked for me. Since the las two months I experience problems with both my squeezebox radio's. They keep on losing there connection. A powercycle helps for a very short while. I am om server 7.9.1 and the radio's are on 7.7.3-r16676. I found it curious that many problems seem to occur with more than one radio. I found a post suggesting I rename the radio's using SSH. I can get in to the radio using SSH but than I am lost. Is there an easy discription on how to work from there using Putty? I have given my AP a fixed channel (6) but that has made no difference.

Is there anyone who has tackled these problems successfully without having to add hardware to the radio's? Your help is much appreciated

reinholdk
2019-02-09, 15:47
Can you tell a little more what you tried except the fixed channel? Did you check signal strengths and maybe interfering channels in the neighborhood, for example?

toby10
2019-02-10, 03:33
Tried hardware reboots? Router? Modem? LMS host computer? LMS itself? Radio's?

Tried switching Radio's to MySB.com, see if issue goes away? Might be an LMS issue not seeing players, not players actually disconnecting from WiFi.

BertdeJong
2019-02-10, 05:09
Can you tell a little more what you tried except the fixed channel? Did you check signal strengths and maybe interfering channels in the neighborhood, for example?
Hello Reinhold, thanks for your reply. That is a valid question. I have tried to link both players to different AP's. I have checked with interfering channels. There are some, but both radio's are very close to the AP and signal is very strong. I have (I think) read everything on this forum about this subject en found that there are more people having the same problem, all with multiple radio's. If I turn on only one radio there is no problem. No one seem to have found a solution that worked without adding hardware (either a powerline plug or an external dongle). I don't want that, I want my radio's to remain mobile.
I found it curious that the problem occurred only a few month ago and that it only occurs with multiple radios. I found a post about how to change the name in the radio's firmware and hope that works, but I don't know how to do that. I can SSH in to the radio. I don't mean changing the name using the web-interface.


Kind regards, Bert

BertdeJong
2019-02-10, 05:11
Tried hardware reboots? Router? Modem? LMS host computer? LMS itself? Radio's?

Tried switching Radio's to MySB.com, see if issue goes away? Might be an LMS issue not seeing players, not players actually disconnecting from WiFi.

Yes I tried rebooting everything, Do I still have acces to my music collection if I connect to mysb.com? I will give that a try

Kind regards,

Bert de Jong

BertdeJong
2019-02-11, 01:37
Can you tell a little more what you tried except the fixed channel? Did you check signal strengths and maybe interfering channels in the neighborhood, for example?

I have now bound a fixed IP adres tot the mac adres of each radio and set up an separate SSID that only allows only the mac addressees of the radio's. Since I did find a IP conflict this is now solved. However, one of te radio's lost contact again. I am successful in binding both radio's to the AP but overnight when in Stand By one of the two (not always the same) loses connection. I found an post about renaming the radio's in the firmware but I can't find it anymore. Maybe this will help. If anyone knows how tot do this I am going to give that a try. I don't mean using the web-interface but in the hardware, using SSH (Putty)

I would very much like to know if anyone has been successful in solving connection problems with multiple radio's without adding hardware.

Kind regards,

Bert

bpa
2019-02-11, 02:12
I have now bound a fixed IP adres tot the mac adres of each radio and set up an separate SSID that only allows only the mac addressees of the radio's. Since I did find a IP conflict this is now solved. However, one of te radio's lost contact again. I am successful in binding both radio's to the AP but overnight when in Stand By one of the two (not always the same) loses connection. I found an post about renaming the radio's in the firmware but I can't find it anymore. Maybe this will help. If anyone knows how tot do this I am going to give that a try. I don't mean using the web-interface but in the hardware, using SSH (Putty)
LMS does not use the player name in any significant way (and routers etc do not use it all for connectivity) - IP address and MAC address are the important ones.

Player name set through LMS WebUI Setting/Player is enough.

What is your network topology ? Routers, APs, extenders etc.


I would very much like to know if anyone has been successful in solving connection problems with multiple radio's without adding hardware.

If the problem is poor wifi signal - that may not be possible.
If you have an android phone / tablet - run a wifi analyser at each of the Radio's location to see what wifi signals are present, strength/quality of your network and whether there are other networks in the areas ?
Strength and interference are the wifi issues to look for. Strength is easily measured and your Radios will show it - what are the Wifi quality.strength values as shown in your Radio Setting menu ?
Interference can be from other wifi networks but also Bluetooth devices and other electrical item such as microwave, fluorescent lights, etc. anything that can generate signals in the 2.4Ghz range.
If problem is recent (i.e. only in last 2 month) - check what has changed ? Possibly new wifi networks or new wifi devices ? How old is the router - routers can die gradually with fading radio signal quality

toby10
2019-02-11, 03:10
Do I still have acces to my music collection if I connect to mysb.com?

No. It is only suggested as a temporary diagnostic to see if the issue is actually players not connecting to WiFi or players not connecting to LMS.

There is nothing unique about having two Radio's or any combination of multiple SB players. The issue is likely your WiFi environment and/or your network (like having duplicate IP's).

BertdeJong
2019-02-11, 05:26
LMS does not use the player name in any significant way (and routers etc do not use it all for connectivity) - IP address and MAC address are the important ones.

Player name set through LMS WebUI Setting/Player is enough.

What is your network topology ? Routers, APs, extenders etc.

I have an Asus N66U router with a DHCP pool 1 to 100, all the assigned ip adresses are outside this range. I have an old Saneo AP that is never used by the radio's. A have a modern AP with both 5ghz and 2.4 GHZ radio's. This AP has one SSID bound to the two radio's using MAC filtering, its channel is set tot 6. I have done this recently in the hope that it would change something.



If the problem is poor wifi signal - that may not be possible.
If you have an android phone / tablet - run a wifi analyser at each of the Radio's location to see what wifi signals are present, strength/quality of your network and whether there are other networks in the areas ?
Strength and interference are the wifi issues to look for. Strength is easily measured and your Radios will show it - what are the Wifi quality.strength values as shown in your Radio Setting menu ?
Interference can be from other wifi networks but also Bluetooth devices and other electrical item such as microwave, fluorescent lights, etc. anything that can generate signals in the 2.4Ghz range.
If problem is recent (i.e. only in last 2 month) - check what has changed ? Possibly new wifi networks or new wifi devices ? How old is the router - routers can die gradually with fading radio signal quality

The WiFi signal is very strong, there are some neighbors that are very nearby, but they have always been there and signal from the AP is the strongest. I have never owned a microwave

BertdeJong
2019-02-11, 05:28
No. It is only suggested as a temporary diagnostic to see if the issue is actually players not connecting to WiFi or players not connecting to LMS.

There is nothing unique about having two Radio's or any combination of multiple SB players. The issue is likely your WiFi environment and/or your network (like having duplicate IP's).

This can be true, but I easily get one radio to work well, but not two. I wil try this as an experiment

bpa
2019-02-11, 06:11
The WiFi signal is very strong, there are some neighbors that are very nearby, but they have always been there and signal from the AP is the strongest. I have never owned a microwave
A stroing wifi signal is no good if there is interference from another Wifi

What do the radios themselves say about signal strength and signal quality(a measure of interference) - they are actual measuremnets which can be read from a Settings menu
Just because your AP is the strongest doesn't mean there won't be interference especially if neighbour is on same channel - do a wifi analysis.
If you are in an apartment - a neighbour wifi, microwave or bad fluorescent light can interfere.

Thunder3dan3
2019-02-11, 11:17
All Squeezebox radios are no longer staying connected to wifi. I can reboot the radios and it re-connects but loses the connection after a short period. This just started this week. Maybe there is a more widespread issue.

bpa
2019-02-11, 14:07
If this problem is the same as other similar threads then look at this post (and then read the whole thread as some posters never did solve the problem)

https://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?109953-WiFi-connection-unstable-lost-on-three-Radios&p=930154&viewfull=1#post930154

This may only be applicable dependingon your region and your AP.

toby10
2019-02-12, 02:55
WiFi basics


Some very basic WiFi tweaks to possibly improve signal strength and reliability

___Router Administration Basics (1-5 require admin access to your router):
1. use a unique SSID name (name of your network/router)
2a. if using a G WiFi: set WiFi to G only (turns off a & b modes)
2b. if using an N WiFi: set to G Compatibility mode (if using G devices)
3. change the broadcast channel to the least used channel near you (see *)
4. select a FIXED ch, do not use the “auto ch switching” on the router
5. choose only channels 1 or 6 or 11
___Physical (location)
6. router and WiFi antenna orientation adjustments can help signal strength
7. try to locate the router as “central” to the home as possible, keeping in mind length & width & height
8. keep router away from other electronic devices (cordless phones, ISP modem, computers)
___Simple Maintenance
9. reboot WiFi router every once in a while (once a month is usually sufficient)

* If your WiFi network card software already gives the ch numbers and the signal strength of all nearby networks, that's all you need. But there are free programs like NetStumbler if needed.

Why?
1. This prevents accidental connections. WiFi devices can only differentiate between different WiFi’s by that WiFi’s name (SSID). So if both you and your neighbors WiFi are both named “Linksys” your devices may accidentally connect to your neighbors WiFi. And your neighbor may accidentally connect to your WiFi.

2. The old a & b WiFi protocols are very slow, if any a or b device connects to your network all devices on your WiFi will slow down to the a or b speed. Also broadcasting in a and b can cause the G signal to be weaker. Turning off a & b broadcasting on your WiFi can give as much as a 20% signal boost to your G signal.

3. Rather obvious, G devices need to communicate with a G signal

4. To see what WiFi channels are in use near you a free program like NetStumbler
can be used if your computers WiFi program does not show channel numbers.
Ex: If the strongest competing signals around you are ch's 6 and 11, then choose
ch 1 for your WiFi.

5. Ex: ch’s 2, 3, 4, 5 will overlap with ch’s 1 and 6

6. Just moving the router a few feet up/down or in a different part of the room can make a big difference. Ex: mine is on the shelf of a first floor closet in the center of the house, so the WiFi is basically “centered” for all points in the house. Ethernet cables are CHEAP so cost wise it is not expensive to move the WiFi router to most anywhere in the home. Cost aside, it needs access to power and how Ethernet cables are run to the router is another issue (might be visible)

7. reduces likelihood of RF interference

8. routers are basically a mini linux computer and they can have issues (memory leaks, DHCP confusion, DNS resolution problems, etc..) like any other computer where a simple reboot can improve performance. Reboot is simply unplugging it for 30 seconds, plugging it back in.


SqueezeBox players are only G compatible, the router must utilize the G spectrum for your player to work on an N router. G speeds are more than sufficient to handle any audio transmissions over WiFi (i.e. N is not needed for audio).

BertdeJong
2019-02-12, 04:03
WiFi basics


Some very basic WiFi tweaks to possibly improve signal strength and reliability

___Router Administration Basics (1-5 require admin access to your router):
1. use a unique SSID name (name of your network/router)
2a. if using a G WiFi: set WiFi to G only (turns off a & b modes)
2b. if using an N WiFi: set to G Compatibility mode (if using G devices)
3. change the broadcast channel to the least used channel near you (see *)
4. select a FIXED ch, do not use the “auto ch switching” on the router
5. choose only channels 1 or 6 or 11
___Physical (location)
6. router and WiFi antenna orientation adjustments can help signal strength
7. try to locate the router as “central” to the home as possible, keeping in mind length & width & height
8. keep router away from other electronic devices (cordless phones, ISP modem, computers)
___Simple Maintenance
9. reboot WiFi router every once in a while (once a month is usually sufficient)

* If your WiFi network card software already gives the ch numbers and the signal strength of all nearby networks, that's all you need. But there are free programs like NetStumbler if needed.

Why?
1. This prevents accidental connections. WiFi devices can only differentiate between different WiFi’s by that WiFi’s name (SSID). So if both you and your neighbors WiFi are both named “Linksys” your devices may accidentally connect to your neighbors WiFi. And your neighbor may accidentally connect to your WiFi.

2. The old a & b WiFi protocols are very slow, if any a or b device connects to your network all devices on your WiFi will slow down to the a or b speed. Also broadcasting in a and b can cause the G signal to be weaker. Turning off a & b broadcasting on your WiFi can give as much as a 20% signal boost to your G signal.

3. Rather obvious, G devices need to communicate with a G signal

4. To see what WiFi channels are in use near you a free program like NetStumbler
can be used if your computers WiFi program does not show channel numbers.
Ex: If the strongest competing signals around you are ch's 6 and 11, then choose
ch 1 for your WiFi.

5. Ex: ch’s 2, 3, 4, 5 will overlap with ch’s 1 and 6

6. Just moving the router a few feet up/down or in a different part of the room can make a big difference. Ex: mine is on the shelf of a first floor closet in the center of the house, so the WiFi is basically “centered” for all points in the house. Ethernet cables are CHEAP so cost wise it is not expensive to move the WiFi router to most anywhere in the home. Cost aside, it needs access to power and how Ethernet cables are run to the router is another issue (might be visible)

7. reduces likelihood of RF interference

8. routers are basically a mini linux computer and they can have issues (memory leaks, DHCP confusion, DNS resolution problems, etc..) like any other computer where a simple reboot can improve performance. Reboot is simply unplugging it for 30 seconds, plugging it back in.


SqueezeBox players are only G compatible, the router must utilize the G spectrum for your player to work on an N router. G speeds are more than sufficient to handle any audio transmissions over WiFi (i.e. N is not needed for audio).

I had seen this post, thank you very much. I think I have done it all. My channel is now set to 1. My AP is in the dead center of my house. I reboot my router at least once a month. I have a SSID specific to the radio's, only they can connect using MAC filtering. Wifi in both boxes is strong (75 and 100 %) Unfortunately i can not set my router nor my AP to 'G Only'. It is either B and G or only 'N'.
I have also changed my firmware on my Asus N66U router from Merlin to the latest Asus firmware, which turned out to be much more recent. I will keep everybody posted, but I can see a future where I do need to ad hardware.

bpa
2019-02-12, 05:12
I had seen this post, thank you very much. I think I have done it all. My channel is now set to 1. My AP is in the dead center of my house. I reboot my router at least once a month. I have a SSID specific to the radio's, only they can connect using MAC filtering. Wifi in both boxes is strong (75 and 100 %) Unfortunately i can not set my router nor my AP to 'G Only'. It is either B and G or only 'N'.
I have also changed my firmware on my Asus N66U router from Merlin to the latest Asus firmware, which turned out to be much more recent. I will keep everybody posted, but I can see a future where I do need to ad hardware.

To solve a problem it is best to understand and determine what is wrong - rather than try lots of different things and changing values and hope for a fix.

Please run a wifi analyser - this way you can be sure the channel you choose is the "best" one and not also used by neighbours. Most common issues with "new "wifi problems is a neighbours wifi. Often neighbours have similar problems and soon they will also change their channel number and so the cycle repeats.

Signal strength is not enough - you also need to know a quality value to see if there is interference.

reinholdk
2019-02-12, 05:37
I am successful in binding both radio's to the AP but overnight when in Stand By one of the two (not always the same) loses connection.

You mean the radio loses connection after it was in stand-by overnight? Was it still connected to the AP and only disconnected from LMS or even disconneted from the AP?
And it doesn't occur when only one radio was connected?
Can you try a different router?

For my Asus routers I disable Wifi for some hours during the night and also the LMS server (old Win10 PC, wired to the router) sleeps when idle, but the Radios don't have issues to reconnect to LMS in the morning. They either send a WOL packet to wake up the server or they are connected immediately if the server is running.

BertdeJong
2019-02-12, 12:03
You mean the radio loses connection after it was in stand-by overnight? Was it still connected to the AP and only disconnected from LMS or even disconneted from the AP?
And it doesn't occur when only one radio was connected?
Can you try a different router?

For my Asus routers I disable Wifi for some hours during the night and also the LMS server (old Win10 PC, wired to the router) sleeps when idle, but the Radios don't have issues to reconnect to LMS in the morning. They either send a WOL packet to wake up the server or they are connected immediately if the server is running.

I Have used a WiFi analyser all the time and it showed me that 3 would be the best channel. I now have my problems reduced to one radio that refuses to keep a connection. It will connect, but after les than one hour it disconnects. I think I will buy a WiFi to Ethernet dongle as one of the forummember suggested. I am fed up with it

BertdeJong
2019-02-12, 12:06
You mean the radio loses connection after it was in stand-by overnight? Was it still connected to the AP and only disconnected from LMS or even disconneted from the AP?
And it doesn't occur when only one radio was connected?
Can you try a different router?

For my Asus routers I disable Wifi for some hours during the night and also the LMS server (old Win10 PC, wired to the router) sleeps when idle, but the Radios don't have issues to reconnect to LMS in the morning. They either send a WOL packet to wake up the server or they are connected immediately if the server is running.


To solve a problem it is best to understand and determine what is wrong - rather than try lots of different things and changing values and hope for a fix.

Please run a wifi analyser - this way you can be sure the channel you choose is the "best" one and not also used by neighbours. Most common issues with "new "wifi problems is a neighbours wifi. Often neighbours have similar problems and soon they will also change their channel number and so the cycle repeats.

Signal strength is not enough - you also need to know a quality value to see if there is interference.


I carefully took one step at the time and watched for change. I did use WiFi- analyser at all times, I have one Radio running, One refuses to stay connected, where it had no problems before I know of no change in the network. I am looking for a hardware solution now

slartibartfast
2019-02-12, 12:33
I Have used a WiFi analyser all the time and it showed me that 3 would be the best channel. I now have my problems reduced to one radio that refuses to keep a connection. It will connect, but after les than one hour it disconnects. I think I will buy a WiFi to Ethernet dongle as one of the forummember suggested. I am fed up with itI would be surprised if channel 3 was the best channel as it overlaps 1 and 6. You should stick to 1,6 or 11.

https://www.metageek.com/training/resources/why-channels-1-6-11.html

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

bpa
2019-02-12, 13:15
I would be surprised if channel 3 was the best channel as it overlaps 1 and 6. You should stick to 1,6 or 11.

I agree - only ever use channel 1, 6 or 11. Any of the other channels will have overlaps. If neighbours have configured router with auto channel changing - check analyser each day and see if neighbour channel selection changes. Many router always start at low channels so selecting channel 11 can have fewest users.

Is there a power saving option on the AP ? Is it active ? Can you disable it ?

BertdeJong
2019-02-15, 01:22
I agree - only ever use channel 1, 6 or 11. Any of the other channels will have overlaps. If neighbours have configured router with auto channel changing - check analyser each day and see if neighbour channel selection changes. Many router always start at low channels so selecting channel 11 can have fewest users.

Is there a power saving option on the AP ? Is it active ? Can you disable it ?

I have set the channel to 1, to no effect. There is no power saving option. I have now bound one of the radios to a repeater with a ethernet out option, so effectively the radio uses ethernet now and the wifi traffic gets handled by the repeater. This works but it is not the solution I want, be course this radio is not mobile anymore.

stuarty
2019-03-24, 09:35
I have two booms and two radios. Recently the two radios stopped connecting to wifi. If I restarted them the connection was fine and I could begin listening but within ten minutes they would drop out. The Booms stayed connected. I have recently updated the firmware on my router and suspect that this is at the root of my problem. I changed a specific setting on my router; I enabled 'IGMP Snooping' and so far so good. I don't know if this will help anyone else but it helped me.

Arcuza
2019-04-09, 00:54
I have two booms and two radios. Recently the two radios stopped connecting to wifi. If I restarted them the connection was fine and I could begin listening but within ten minutes they would drop out. The Booms stayed connected. I have recently updated the firmware on my router and suspect that this is at the root of my problem. I changed a specific setting on my router; I enabled 'IGMP Snooping' and so far so good. I don't know if this will help anyone else but it helped me.

By "stopped connecting to wifi", does that mean the connectivity status on the Radio display showing a red wifi icon?