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View Full Version : PiCore LMS - Thoughts on Library Location(s), Management, Backup?



Redrum
2019-01-09, 08:14
Hi;

Now that I have put together my first Pi LMS (fun!), I am thinking through how to handle the library, and I thought I would ask some opinions from others that have done it. let me explain, see the picture...
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I originally was running LMS on a windows machine with the library on an internal HDD. I manage the library with Media Monkey. I currently am backing the library (along with all my other files, photos, documents, etc) on a WD USB hard drive. The WD does a "smart backup" (automatic).

I put together a PiCore player as a LMS only, with a USB HDD to store the library. I have retired the windows LMS. The PiCore LMS is connected to the windows computer via ethernet, although I will be working on another system where the connection will be wifi (pi LMS to windows computer). I have players (touch, boom, radio, receivers) connected via both ethernet and wifi. All works good. I have Samba setup (but no very little about it).

So, when I built the picore LMS I just copied the library from the windows computer to the PiCore HDD, anxious to get the hardware working. Now that it is working I am trying to figure out where to maintain the library and how to back it up/share it.

Some options:
1) Maintain it on the windows computer and mirror the drive to the PiCore (how?). The backup would still be from the windows computer to the WD
2) Eliminate the windows files and just maintain it on the PiCore LMS hard drive. Maybe just rip/download to windows drive (or not), but run media monkey on the piCore drive? Also, point the WD backup drive to the library on the piCore LMS
3) something in between, or something I haven't thought of?

It would be nice to have something "slick". It doesn't necessarily need to be automatic. Data transfer, library scan speeds are a consideration.

Some thoughts would be appreciated. Please note that I am relatively new to pi and an electronics guy, not a linux or IT guy.

Jim

Grumpy Bob
2019-01-09, 08:40
My piCorePlayer running LMS has a wired connection to the router. The files are held on a QNAP NAS which is also wired to the router.
I have a 2 Tb WD Hard Drive connected to the NAS by USB and which backs up the files at midnight daily.
I manually back up to another WD drive roughly monthly and keep that in my office at work.
I make another backup to a WD WiFi drive that also has LMS installed. So, rather than being a backup, it's really a second copy that I use in my office.

The NAS and Pi run 24/7.

Robert

Redrum
2019-01-09, 09:20
My piCorePlayer running LMS has a wired connection to the router. The files are held on a QNAP NAS which is also wired to the router.
I have a 2 Tb WD Hard Drive connected to the NAS by USB and which backs up the files at midnight daily.
I manually back up to another WD drive roughly monthly and keep that in my office at work.
I make another backup to a WD WiFi drive that also has LMS installed. So, rather than being a backup, it's really a second copy that I use in my office.

The NAS and Pi run 24/7.

Robert

Thank you;

Alas, I don't have a NAS, and I don't plan on one. I suppose I could mimic your arrangement if I treated the <ethernet>router<ethernet>Pi<usb>HDD as a drive path for the windows computer. I suppose I could rip using the computer with the Pi HDD as the destination, and use Media Monkey with this drive path, but I worry about performance. Maybe I'll try just pointing media monkey to this drive path and see what happens. Then I could rip to the PC (or download), transfer new music to the Pi HDD, and run media monkey on that drive, and rescan lms after.

Jim

d6jg
2019-01-09, 13:43
Expose the USB drive attached to the Pi as a network share via Samba
Map the drive on your Windows PC and point media monkey at it.
Should all work but the issue is backup.
A NAS makes the backup task easy as you’d just connect a USB drive and click a few boxes to schedule a backup.
PiCorePlayer is great but not designed to do be a NAS and while you can handcode some backup scripts you said no Linux skills.
Get a decent NAS

Redrum
2019-01-09, 14:17
Expose the USB drive attached to the Pi as a network share via Samba
Map the drive on your Windows PC and point media monkey at it.
Should all work but the issue is backup.
A NAS makes the backup task easy as you’d just connect a USB drive and click a few boxes to schedule a backup.
PiCorePlayer is great but not designed to do be a NAS and while you can handcode some backup scripts you said no Linux skills.
Get a decent NAS

Thanks. I posed the question as a "what are people doing?" so that I don't adopt something foolish when there is something elegant available. It appears the answer is NAS. But, the question of using media monkey directly with the Pi HDD (performance, practical?) has been answered, thank you, I'll give it a try. It also seems like the library doesn't need to be on the PC anymore.

I am going to resist the NAS for now. As I mentioned (and in another thread), I have two locations, and will set up identical pi (LMS only) systems (just pi with USB HDD), and carrying the HDD back and forth to mirror any changes. No VPN because I spend weeks to months at one place while the other is vacant - shut down as much power as possible. I mention this because in essence, the HDD's are backups for each other. In fact, with 3, one can be the traveler.

My other thought is to try the western digital "smart backup" software (on the PC) pointed to the Pi HDD, and see what happens.

again, everybody's input is very much appreciated!

Jim

d6jg
2019-01-09, 15:01
Thanks. I posed the question as a "what are people doing?" so that I don't adopt something foolish when there is something elegant available. It appears the answer is NAS. But, the question of using media monkey directly with the Pi HDD (performance, practical?) has been answered, thank you, I'll give it a try.

My other thought is to try the western digital "smart backup" software (on the PC) pointed to the Pi HDD, and see what happens.

Jim

What do you use Media Monkey for exactly? I’d expect it to work in any event.

I would not try backing up using the PC by reading the Pi USB HD. I’d expect problems.
BUT if you DO try ensure you exclude network drives from any active AV software that scans files as they are accessed.

Redrum
2019-01-09, 15:21
What do you use Media Monkey for exactly? I’d expect it to work in any event.

I would not try backing up using the PC by reading the Pi USB HD. I’d expect problems.
BUT if you DO try ensure you exclude network drives from any active AV software that scans files as they are accessed.

I use media monkey for ripping, tagging and organization, adding artwork, etc. Rip to FLAC using MM, make sure the artist tag matches the others for the same artist (e.g you don't have "Beatles" and "The Beatles" with some associated with each). Once it looks good and is in it's right place, it's ready for a LMS scan. Not sure its the best thing to do, but it's what I adopted when I got my first duet and started the process of ripping the 100's of CD's

Understand your second point. Right now I am looking into "Sync Toy" with the thought of maintaining the "working library" on the PC, and mirroring it to the pi HDD's. The process being: rip to PC library (or download), clean up in MM -> run sync toy (update pi LMS library) -> rescan LMS. I could then have the computer backup to the external HDD as usual.

Unfortunately, Sync toy being new to me, it doesn't see the LMS HDD, even though windows does:
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so, I have to work through this...

Thanks for your input!
Jim

d6jg
2019-01-09, 15:29
I use media monkey for ripping, tagging and organization, adding artwork, etc. Rip to FLAC using MM, make sure the artist tag matches the others for the same artist (e.g you don't have "Beatles" and "The Beatles" with some associated with each). Once it looks good and is in it's right place, it's ready for a LMS scan. Not sure its the best thing to do, but it's what I adopted when I got my first duet and started the process of ripping the 100's of CD's

Understand your second point. Right now I am looking into "Sync Toy" with the thought of maintaining the "working library" on the PC, and mirroring it to the pi HDD's. The process being: rip to PC library (or download), clean up in MM -> run sync toy (update pi LMS library) -> rescan LMS. I could then have the computer backup to the external HDD as usual.

Unfortunately, Sync toy being new to me, it doesn't see the LMS HDD, even though windows does:
26539

so, I have to work through this...

Thanks for your input!
Jim

Media Monkey - that will be fine if you “map the network drive” to say M: (for music)

SyncToy also needs a mapped drive to see the share.

If it’s W10 then in Windows Explorer go to This PC then on the second tab you’ll find “map network drive”

\\ipaddress of Pi\sharename

d6jg
2019-01-09, 15:31
Not M: you have used that
Not This PC but “Computer” instead

Redrum
2019-01-09, 15:50
yea, the wonders of forums ;), I found others with a similar issue, and I just had to cut/paste the address (\\PiCoreLMS\PiCoreLMSfiles\~) rather than use browse. Sync Toy browse doesn't like the drive maps. It now works.

so, my plan (until I get a better plan) is to just use the PC as I always do, with my "working library" on the PC (on M: drive), use sync toy to echo the changes to the pi USB HDD, rescan the pi LMS. The WD USB drive will back up the "working library" along with all my other files, as currently.

Then, when I build the system for the second location, I can use sync toy to mirror the working library to the pi HDD, and transport mirrored HDD's to and from. Works for now.

Cheers
Jim

d6jg
2019-01-09, 15:54
Just check First that when you use the PC to write a file to the Pi HD that LMS can subsequently scan and read it OK

Linux uses users/groups and file permissions in a different way to Windows
It will probably work but worth checking before you use synctoy to automate it

Also have you checked that LMS can write to the playlist folder?

garym
2019-01-09, 17:04
I do something very simple. I use "free file sync" (similar to synctoy) to keep the USB drive I attach to my rPi up to date with my main library.

1. remove USB drive from rPi (while all is off)
2. connect USB drive to my windows computer.
3. use freefilesync to mirror the contents of my main music library to the USB drive. Only changes are made, so after the first time it is very fast.
4. Remove USB drive from windows computer and reattach to rPi.
5. restart rPi, and go into LMS > settings > scan for new and updated.

Done!

Redrum
2019-01-10, 04:37
I thought I would post an update in case someone's search lands on this thread.

As it turns out, for me (windows 7, 64 bit), Sync Toy was successful in identifying which files needed to be "echo'ed" (one way, PC HDD -> Pi HDD, the action I have chosen to do), but when I tried to execute the sync, every file that needed to be overwritten failed due to an "access denied" error. I searched forums, tried this and that, and finally followed the advice in may of the forums, switch to "FreeFileSync". Not only can you pick a folder on the Pi share with a browse, but the sync overwrite actually works.

Again, I realize that I have created a multistep process for each library update, but my intent is to get something working then look to streamline/automate.

YMMV, but I thought I would mention this and perhaps save a bit of headache for someone.

Jim

Redrum
2019-01-10, 04:42
garym, thank you. Sorry, I didn't see you had posted until I posted my previous reply. I guess I lost track of the email notifications :) Thank you for your input.

From what I have experienced to date (limited testing), it doesn't appear that you have to do the disconnect/reconnect if using Samba. I just point the "to" to the Pi HDD, and "mirror", even with LMS running. Then of course I have to rescan

Jim

garym
2019-01-10, 06:08
garym, thank you. Sorry, I didn't see you had posted until I posted my previous reply. I guess I lost track of the email notifications :) Thank you for your input.

From what I have experienced to date (limited testing), it doesn't appear that you have to do the disconnect/reconnect if using Samba. I just point the "to" to the Pi HDD, and "mirror", even with LMS running. Then of course I have to rescan

Jim

Thanks. I've not even bothered with the samba, but that's a better approach, particularly if the pi is buried in the back of a cabinet or something. freefilesync is very useful though for lots of options.