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View Full Version : Play native DSD on piCorePlayer 3.5 (Raspberry Pi 3B+) and Chord Mojo DAC = no sound



SBFan
2018-04-11, 14:58
Tried to play DSD 64 and 256 files, but no sound, tried different settings in squeezelite, but I donít know if there are right.

LMS settings:
Installed DSDPlayer 1.0 plugin in LMS 7.9.1 - 1522249619

piCorePlayer > DSDPlayer > Enable DSD-over-PCM
This player supports native playback of DSD files. DSD-over-PCM should be configured on the player configuration interface.

piCorePlayer > Audio
Crossfade: None
Smart Crossfade: Disable Smart Crossfade
Volume Control: Output level is fixed at 100%
Volume Adjustment/Replay Gain: No Volume Adjustment

Advanced > File Types

DFF
DFF: native
FLAC: dsdplay
FLAC: dsdplay
FLAC: dsdplay

DSF
DSF: native
FLAC: dsdplay
FLAC: dsdplay
FLAC: dsdplay

paul-
2018-04-11, 19:41
I'll refer you to this blog. https://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.de/2018/01/raspberry-pi-audio-engine-part-6-dsd.html

SBFan
2018-04-12, 03:49
I'll refer you to this blog. https://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.de/2018/01/raspberry-pi-audio-engine-part-6-dsd.html

Thanks!, but i already know this blog, i actually followed the guide there to set up LMS/piCorePlayer, i have tried various setings in the "Output setting" and "Various Options" fields, but still no luck, so i don't know what to try next.

soundcheck
2018-04-12, 05:48
Thanks!, but i already know this blog, i actually followed the guide there to set up LMS/piCorePlayer, i have tried various setings in the "Output setting" and "Various Options" fields, but still no luck, so i don't know what to try next.

RTFM. ;)

The Mojo supports DOP only according to the manual!

https://chordelectronics.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/Mojo-Manual-28072016.pdf

SBFan
2018-04-12, 06:13
RTFM. ;)

The Mojo supports DOP only according to the manual!

https://chordelectronics.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/Mojo-Manual-28072016.pdf

I think you are right! - it was this post by Mojo creator Rob Watts that led me to believe it could handle native DSD (Post #35137):
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/chord-mojo-dac-amp-%E2%98%86%E2%98%85%E2%96%BAfaq-in-3rd-post-%E2%97%84%E2%98%85%E2%98%86.784602/page-2343

"Just to clear things up, as there are two terms for "native" DSD. DoP is native DSD, in that it is a protocol to transmit pure one bit native DSD. Native DSD is just the original DSD data completely unchanged.

But native (no italics on native) DSD transmission is an ASIO USB protocol where the native DSD is transmitted with only the DSD data - no DoP headers, no 0 bit packing. Since only the data is transmitted, it is much more efficient - and it is the only way to transmit DSD512 on USB.

Chord DAC's can receive both protocols: native ASIO for native DSD and DoP for native DSD. To transmit DSD512 you must use the ASIO drivers in native (i.e. not DoP) mode.

Yes I know it is confusing."

So i guess i have to select "Standard Squeezelite Binary" instead of "Squeezelite with DSD (DoP or native) patches"?

soundcheck
2018-04-12, 06:56
Would you expect a manufacturer to admit not to support native DSD in public when being confronted with it??
I think the manual clearly states what Chord supports . And that's DOP.

Which is not a bad thing! It just requires double the bandwidth and additional PCM->DSD processing.
The DSD data will be the same anyhow. -- What's really interesting is what the DAC is doing with these
DSD data !?!?!? Are we talking about a true-DSD DAC at all!?!? -- Ok.Ok. That's a different story. ;)

*****

I havn't tested DOP on pcP 3.5 myself yet.
However. You should be able - even with the DSD binary in place - to just use "-D" without further options to be able to run DOP.

Let us know if it works.

If not - I might hook up my Audiophonics Sabre 9028 HAT, which supports DOP, to see what's going on.
I might also add some lines related to DOP to my blog article to draw the full picture.

SBFan
2018-04-12, 16:05
Would you expect a manufacturer to admit not to support native DSD in public when being confronted with it??
I think the manual clearly states what Chord supports . And that's DOP.

Which is not a bad thing! It just requires double the bandwidth and additional PCM->DSD processing.
The DSD data will be the same anyhow. -- What's really interesting is what the DAC is doing with these
DSD data !?!?!? Are we talking about a true-DSD DAC at all!?!? -- Ok.Ok. That's a different story. ;)

*****

I havn't tested DOP on pcP 3.5 myself yet.
However. You should be able - even with the DSD binary in place - to just use "-D" without further options to be able to run DOP.

Let us know if it works.

If not - I might hook up my Audiophonics Sabre 9028 HAT, which supports DOP, to see what's going on.
I might also add some lines related to DOP to my blog article to draw the full picture.

Thanks for clarifying that :-)

I tried with the -D switch in the "Various Options" field, and now everything plays at 44.1Khz according to Mojos sample rate indicator.

EDIT: Samplerates are normal again, it was because i had set the "Output setting" to "sysdefault:CARD=Mojo" instead of "front:CARD=Mojo,DEV=0".

DSD stills plays with no sound (with -D switch), and piCorePlayer has to be restarted after playing DSD to get sound back when playing other formats.

That Audiophonics look interesting, and btw. a great blog you have :-)

soundcheck
2018-04-12, 23:32
I tried with the -D switch in the "Various Options" field, and now everything plays at 44.1Khz according to Mojos sample rate indicator.





That Audiophonics look interesting


DSD64-DOP=176k4 DSD128-DOP=352k8 and Mojo shows 44.1?

Did you have a look what goes out from the PI towards the DAC? Below command executed during playback will do:
cat /proc/asound/card0/pcm0p/sub0/hw_params

I'll checkout DOP on pCP3.5 myself over the weekend. And I'll also add a section about DOP to my DSD-native blog article.

****



That Audiophonics look interesting


Yep. On the first glance.

1. They don't have a driver in the kernel tree. To me. That's a No-Go. They do offer a driver that you can build yourself. That's what I did. Good luck with that! ;)
2. IMO it's not the best in class implementation of that DAC chip. 90% of the perceived soundquality is generated by the surroundings of a DAC chip. Nothing more to say.

Soon there'll be a Sabre 9038 HAT from Allo that'll potentially shuffle the market. We'll see. ;)

marflao
2018-04-13, 11:05
@SBFan:
I had a similar issue with my DAC and also found soundcheck's (as well as Archimago's) post. Took some details from both as mentioned here (https://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?108852-Announce-piCorePlayer-3-5-0&p=910120&viewfull=1#post910120) and at the end it worked out.

If this is now DoP or native DSD i don't really know though. ;-) Doubt i will hear any difference anyway.

SBFan
2018-04-14, 05:24
DSD64-DOP=176k4 DSD128-DOP=352k8 and Mojo shows 44.1?

Did you have a look what goes out from the PI towards the DAC? Below command executed during playback will do:
cat /proc/asound/card0/pcm0p/sub0/hw_params

I'll checkout DOP on pCP3.5 myself over the weekend. And I'll also add a section about DOP to my DSD-native blog article.

****



Yep. On the first glance.

1. They don't have a driver in the kernel tree. To me. That's a No-Go. They do offer a driver that you can build yourself. That's what I did. Good luck with that! ;)
2. IMO it's not the best in class implementation of that DAC chip. 90% of the perceived soundquality is generated by the surroundings of a DAC chip. Nothing more to say.

Soon there'll be a Sabre 9038 HAT from Allo that'll potentially shuffle the market. We'll see. ;)

Here is the result of the output from the Pi (Wired gigabit LAN connection, test files from http://www.2l.no/hires/index.html?):

24Bit/192Khz
access: MMAP_INTERLEAVED
format: S32_LE
subformat: STD
channels: 2
rate: 192000 (192000/1)
period_size: 7680
buffer_size: 30720

Stereo DSD 64 - 2.8224Mbit/s
access: MMAP_INTERLEAVED
format: S32_LE
subformat: STD
channels: 2
rate: 176400 (176400/1)
period_size: 7056
buffer_size: 28224

Stereo DSD 128 - 5.6448Mbit/s
access: MMAP_INTERLEAVED
format: S32_LE
subformat: STD
channels: 2
rate: 352800 (352800/1)
period_size: 14112
buffer_size: 56448

Stereo DSD 256 - 11.2896Mbit/s
no setup

The first 3 play fine (and sample rate indicator on the Mojo shows DSD), the last one, no sound.

I guess S32_LE means it's DOP?

OK, the Audiophonics is not for me for sure, wait for the Sabre 9038 HAT from Allo :-)

soundcheck
2018-04-14, 06:01
Perfect. Well done.

Everything looks OK.

DSD64-DOP and DSD128-DOP look as expected.

DSD256-DOP is not supported. It requires a bandwidth of 705600Hz. I'm not sure if this can be enabled - e.g by a patch.

DSD256-native would work on a capable DAC. As I said. DSD native requires just half the bandwitdh.

Alsa thinks your DOP stream is a PCM stream.
S32_LE just means 32bit transfer. Most USB DACs get zero-padded 32bit data.
The DAC will cut off the 8 0-bits if required.


Enjoy. Case closed.

SBFan
2018-04-14, 09:00
Perfect. Well done.

Everything looks OK.

DSD64-DOP and DSD128-DOP look as expected.

DSD256-DOP is not supported. It requires a bandwidth of 705600Hz. I'm not sure if this can be enabled - e.g by a patch.

DSD256-native would work on a capable DAC. As I said. DSD native requires just half the bandwitdh.

Alsa thinks your DOP stream is a PCM stream.
S32_LE just means 32bit transfer. Most USB DACs get zero-padded 32bit data.
The DAC will cut off the 8 0-bits if required.


Enjoy. Case closed.

Thanks for your help!, next time i go shopping for a DAC i will choose one that does native DSD.

soundcheck
2018-04-15, 23:37
Thanks for your help!, next time i go shopping for a DAC i will choose one that does native DSD.

I don't consider DOP vs. NATIVE the key issue. Not sure if anybody requires more then DSD128.


The key question IMO is if the DAC is a true-DSD DAC!!

DACs like e.g. Topping D50 support DSD-native. However. There's a Sabre DAC chip inside. And these Sabre chips are not true-DSD DACs from what I read.

The main issue that comes with true-DSD DACs though is the lack of digital volume control. You'd need a VC in the analog domain.
Sabre based DSD DACs offer digital volume control though.


I guess. There'll always be a catch at one point. ;)

Enjoy.

SBFan
2018-04-17, 04:46
I don't consider DOP vs. NATIVE the key issue. Not sure if anybody requires more then DSD128.


The key question IMO is if the DAC is a true-DSD DAC!!

DACs like e.g. Topping D50 support DSD-native. However. There's a Sabre DAC chip inside. And these Sabre chips are not true-DSD DACs from what I read.

The main issue that comes with true-DSD DACs though is the lack of digital volume control. You'd need a VC in the analog domain.
Sabre based DSD DACs offer digital volume control though.


I guess. There'll always be a catch at one point. ;)

Enjoy.

Yes, that's indeed important, this article sheds some light on the subject:
https://positive-feedback.com/Issue78/dsd.htm

Burr Brown/Ti are the DAC chips with true DSD, according to that article.

The Mojo also has digital volume control, which apparently only can be done on PCM, so yes thats a indicator for a DAC is not true-DSD.

A analog VC is a little inconvenient these days, but then one can get off the sofa once in a while :-)

And how about this odd DAC: http://www.lampizator.eu/Fikus/DSD_DAC.html

michaelvv
2018-07-24, 13:12
Just tried the RaspBerry PI 3B+ with piCorePlayer 3.5.0 and my Chord 2qute DAC.
I bought this board for a software project, but was excited how it works.

It was a complete disaster both with piCorePlayer and the Rasbian Lite.

I know chord properly is the most buggy DAC under linux and ARM when it
comes to DOP, but this was the biggest joke so far.

DOP is falling out every 2-5 seconds and I have some clicks on 24/96khz and higher resolution.

I'm back on my Intel i5-7500, which are way better, only very small issues on DOP.

My Only an best working ARM board with Chord 2qute is still my nearly 6 years old Wandboard imx6.

soundcheck
2018-07-25, 04:02
Hmmh. Pretty vague description.

And if 24/96 generates issues already, you for sure will face lockups on DSD material.
I'm running DSD256 without any issues towards an ifi USB DAC.

I do also know that several people out there are happy with the Mojo on the PI.
That would speak against a generic "all Chords have an issue" on the PI.

I'd say it just needs a little more analysis and tinkering (HW and SW) from your side to get going.

Some HW related hints:

1. Avoid the onboard-WLAN on the PI
2. Make sure you have a good power supply - especially for the 3B+, which consumes much more power than the 3B.
3. Do not use USB powered DACs on the PI


Good luck.

soundcheck
2019-03-18, 06:50
Hi there.

A small update regarding bullet 1. of my last post.

On the 3B+ I do run onboard Wifi nowadays. The Wifi part has been seriously improved on the 3B+.
If you'd then run a USB DAC, you'll get rid of the shared use of the USB-ethernet interfaces. Which is really nice!
Wifi connects straight to the SOC. That should work quite well.

Since I'm running mostly i2S Audio HATs, I'm getting rid (turn off) of USB altogether,
which saves a serious amount on the 3B+ current consumption.

Enjoy.