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SlimChances
2017-12-11, 17:04
https://thebaffler.com/salvos/the-problem-with-muzak-pelly

I could never understand the allure of services of Spotify which seem to spoon feed listeners rather than encouraging them to make the effort to research and find music on their own; through friends, concerts, searching music stores etc. But I guess I am out of touch with modern ways


" What good will criticism be when all of music has coalesced into algorithmically preordained Muzak?"

castalla
2017-12-11, 17:29
https://thebaffler.com/salvos/the-problem-with-muzak-pelly

I could never understand the allure of services of Spotify which seem to spoon feed listeners rather than encouraging them to make the effort to research and find music on their own; through friends, concerts, searching music stores etc. But I guess I am out of touch with modern ways


" What good will criticism be when all of music has coalesced into algorithmically preordained Muzak?"

Strange - I use Spotify almost 100% compared to the laborious 'DIY' process involved in in maintaining a squeezebox database, especially with playlists ... I can search on the web for some obscure 'tune' played in a TV series, then go to Spotify or Amazon Music, and add it to a playlist, which is then easily managed online.

I've been defeated trying to find the BBC live sessions version of 'Wicked Game' by London Grammar .... any clues?

Grumpy Bob
2017-12-11, 22:25
I find the role of Spotify (and other streaming services) quite interesting in a generational sort of way. I grew up in an era when finding music could be quite a challenge, particularly when one was interested in rather 'alternative' genres. I do have a premium Spotify subscription, but I use it to listen to music before buying a copy (either physical or download). I don't use Spotify produced playlists. I don't expect to have a Spotify subscription for ever - either the service will change or go under in some way.

Spotify generated playlists don't reflect the music I listen to (the vast majority not through Spotify) - if they used last.fm they might be able to make a better stab at it!

So, under my purchase model, Spotify royalties are far from the only income stream from me to the artist and record label. I'd love to know how widespread that is!

Robert

drmatt
2017-12-12, 01:02
I think Spotify/tidal/iTunes are the future. Seems to me that buying physical media or even bothering to purchase digital media will be a side show, a curiosity for the old and nostalgic in ten years time. The industry wants subscription, and now it has a taste for it physical media in particular is under threat.

I will of course be one of the old and nostalgic, but there you go. I do see it becoming the norm.


Transcoded from Matt's brain by Tapatalk

Peter Galbavy
2017-12-12, 01:25
Curated music services are just the status quo (no pun intended) returning to where the music industry was 30 years ago - and it is an industry with huge vested financial interests.

I was working at the periphery of groups that were very much the utopians of the disintermediation fashion in the 90s, the removal of barriers between content producers (musicians) and the consumers. The music industry actively conspired to ensure this brave new world headed for oblivion. They actively seeded and covertly encouraged illegal distribution as a strawman to have something to hold up and say it's a bad thing.

The result is Spotify, iTunes et al. Enjoy.

slartibartfast
2017-12-12, 02:37
Curated music services are just the status quo (no pun intended) returning to where the music industry was 30 years ago - and it is an industry with huge vested financial interests.

I was working at the periphery of groups that were very much the utopians of the disintermediation fashion in the 90s, the removal of barriers between content producers (musicians) and the consumers. The music industry actively conspired to ensure this brave new world headed for oblivion. They actively seeded and covertly encouraged illegal distribution as a strawman to have something to hold up and say it's a bad thing.

The result is Spotify, iTunes et al. Enjoy.I don't have a clue what any of that means.

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

bakker_be
2017-12-12, 04:09
Curated music services are just the status quo (no pun intended) returning to where the music industry was 30 years ago - and it is an industry with huge vested financial interests.

I was working at the periphery of groups that were very much the utopians of the disintermediation fashion in the 90s, the removal of barriers between content producers (musicians) and the consumers. The music industry actively conspired to ensure this brave new world headed for oblivion. They actively seeded and covertly encouraged illegal distribution as a strawman to have something to hold up and say it's a bad thing.

The result is Spotify, iTunes et al. Enjoy.

On the other hand, at least for Belgian bands, I see bands which have no record deal, who've financed, recorded and released their album themselves, appearing on iTunes, Amazon, Tidal and Spotify.

bb1959
2017-12-12, 10:41
Um, dude, you're doing it wrong.

FWIW, I bought my first album when I was 8...in a gadda da vida





https://thebaffler.com/salvos/the-problem-with-muzak-pelly

I could never understand the allure of services of Spotify which seem to spoon feed listeners rather than encouraging them to make the effort to research and find music on their own; through friends, concerts, searching music stores etc. But I guess I am out of touch with modern ways


" What good will criticism be when all of music has coalesced into algorithmically preordained Muzak?"

SlimChances
2017-12-12, 10:54
Um, dude, you're doing it wrong.

FWIW, I bought my first album when I was 8...in a gadda da vida

Perhaps but to me while there is a wealth of music to choose from quality has steadily gone downhill for over 20 years

castalla
2017-12-12, 11:44
Perhaps but to me while there is a wealth of music to choose from quality has steadily gone downhill for over 20 years

Can't argue with that ...

usc95
2017-12-12, 11:49
I used to use Spotify as a "try before you buy" kind of service but now I feel foolish for buying an album when for all intents and purposes I have all the access to it I need with the Spotify subscription. I had to really take a hard look at how I listen to music and also accept that I cannot tell the difference between my lossless ripped FLAC collection vs. the 320 kbps OGG files that Spotify serves up on my stereo systems. If Spotify would allow me to upload all of the live concerts I enjoy listening to and could play them back gaplessly then I would only use that service as it would meet all of my needs. I do miss the old feelings of serendipity that came with digging through the used CD bin at my favorite record store and finding some music I wasn't expecting or being turned on to a new band by my favorite dj or buddy that I knew also had good taste in music. Something about that process was rewarding in a way that a Spotify recommendation just cannot come close to matching. I also find I don't give a new album a real chance to grow on me since I have made no financial commitment beyond my monthly subscription.

usbethjim
2017-12-12, 12:44
I don't have a clue what any of that means.

THAT was funny...I spewed beer.

Jim

bakker_be
2017-12-12, 14:00
THAT was funny...I spewed beer.

Jim

You should be severely punished: spew water, coffe, tea, soup, whatever, but NOT beer ... :p

d6jg
2017-12-12, 16:31
In the UK Spotify has replaced John Peel? No I donít think so either.

castalla
2017-12-12, 16:39
In the UK Spotify has replaced John Peel? No I donít think so either.

You could always create a public John Peel Playlist ...

d6jg
2017-12-12, 16:49
You could always create a public John Peel Playlist ...

Mr Peel had an advantage over most in that aspiring artists would send him their albums etc FOC. He was our arbiter of good taste and a necessary filter of the mundane. Spotify doesnít fulfil this role.

I do listen to Spotify but only via LastMix / DSTM. I am listening now. I listened to an album (local files) and as itís bedtime I am just letting Spotify play me something similar before I switch off for the night.

ftlight
2017-12-12, 17:11
You could always create a public John Peel Playlist ...
When I worked at BBC Bush House (1968-71) we had clean feeds of Radio 1, 2, 3 & 4, plus audio channels for BBC 1 and BBC 2 TV. Enterprising staff in the Central Tape Room would record Top of the Pops, Pick of the Pops, Top Gear, and other music shows every week at 15ips on 10.5" reels and stash them on a special shelf. Then on the night shift you could find a few tape ends, splice them together into a full reel, make a high-speed copy of anything you were interested in, and take it home. As long as it didn't get out of hand, management turned a blind eye - things were a lot more casual at the BBC then.

So around June 1970 I made copies of a couple of John Peel shows and spliced up a compilation of tracks I liked, complete with his intros. I still have the tape, about 80 minutes, and digitized it some years ago. For anyone interested, the 130MB MP3 file can be downloaded from my server:
http://ftldesign.com/images/Top-Gear-Compilation-1970-BB.mp3

Bill

bakker_be
2017-12-13, 13:24
When I worked at BBC Bush House (1968-71) we had clean feeds of Radio 1, 2, 3 & 4, plus audio channels for BBC 1 and BBC 2 TV. Enterprising staff in the Central Tape Room would record Top of the Pops, Pick of the Pops, Top Gear, and other music shows every week at 15ips on 10.5" reels and stash them on a special shelf. Then on the night shift you could find a few tape ends, splice them together into a full reel, make a high-speed copy of anything you were interested in, and take it home. As long as it didn't get out of hand, management turned a blind eye - things were a lot more casual at the BBC then.

So around June 1970 I made copies of a couple of John Peel shows and spliced up a compilation of tracks I liked, complete with his intros. I still have the tape, about 80 minutes, and digitized it some years ago. For anyone interested, the 130MB MP3 file can be downloaded from my server:
http://ftldesign.com/images/Top-Gear-Compilation-1970-BB.mp3

Bill

I'll take you up on that offer, thanks a lot!

ftlight
2017-12-13, 16:01
I'll take you up on that offer, thanks a lot!

Hope you enjoy my John Peel tape!

If you're amused by his attempts to pronounce "bransle" (an early-baroque dance), here's how it should be done:
http://www.pronunciationguide.info/sounds/bransle.mp3

pablolie
2017-12-13, 22:48
Interesting thread.

I nearly asked about Spotify use patterns in the audiophile forum. Is it sacrilege? :-)

I am what many would call an "audiophile", yet I *adore* Spotify. Their collection is amazing, audio quality is great (shut up you "I could only listen to the mouse fart in a corner of the studio in the 192/24 HD re-issue" people :-D), and convenient as hell. I have a huge collection of music, and Spotify these days probably covers 80% of it. Awesome. It means I basically wasted over $25k+ on stuff I could get for $10 a month. Do the math. I love my 1TB music collection but if I was starting off... it'd be Spotify playlists. There are only about 5 albums where I can or care to tell a difference between MP3 and uncompressed, really. :-D

Using Spotify is not selling out. It's just about embracing a convenient way when it comes to enjoying a huge choice of quality music. Which is why we embraced CDs initially, no vinyl temperamental stuff (which some people embrace and love now again, not me, ever again; but to each their own).

I'll keep buying music, but Spotify or whatever follows is there to stay in my arsenal for sheer convenience, and convenience tends to win out in the end - because isn't that why we adopted SB and a digitized music collection to begin with?

bakker_be
2017-12-14, 03:19
Interesting thread.

I nearly asked about Spotify use patterns in the audiophile forum. Is it sacrilege? :-)

I am what many would call an "audiophile", yet I *adore* Spotify. Their collection is amazing, audio quality is great (shut up you "I could only listen to the mouse fart in a corner of the studio in the 192/24 HD re-issue" people), and convenient as hell. I have a huge collection of music, and Spotify these days probably covers 80% of it. Awesome. It means I basically wasted over $25k on stuff I could get for $10 a month. Do the math. I love my 1TB music collection but if I was starting off... it'd be Spotify playlists. There are only about 5 albums where I can or care to tell a difference between MP3 and uncompressed.

Spotify is not selling out. It's just about embracing a convenient way when it comes to enjoying a huge choice of quality music. Which is why we embraced CDs initially, no vinyl temperamental stuff (which some people embrace and love now again, not me, ever again; but to each their own).

I'll keep buying music, but Spotify or whatever follows is there to stay in my arsenal for sheer convenience.

That's about the same way I feel about Spotify. I've initially taken out a family subscription for Tidal, on the basis of their lossless streaming and the purportedly better remuneration for the artists, but the gaps in their collection as well as the lack of "intelligence" behind the whole thing is now slowly but surely convincing me to keep just a single Tidal account for "dedicated" listening, and switch the family account over to Spotify. I just love the way they actually keep track of what I listen to and manage to make sensible proposals for stuff I don't yet know ... On top of that I have a 4TB personal collection and I do also still buy music.

iPhone
2017-12-14, 15:15
Perhaps but to me while there is a wealth of music to choose from quality has steadily gone downhill for over 20 years

Some of the stuff released in the last 15 years SHOULDN'T be called music (IMHO)! I listen to just about everything if one excludes Rap & HipHop (which is mostly music ripped off from other artists or profanity rants). My son is listening to 70s and 80's channels to be able to listen to what he calls real music and when in the car with me, he gets exposed to what are called Oldies Stations which makes him wonder what will be called Oldies Stations when he is older because he just can't see there being Rap and HipHop stations in say 20 years which would be "his" oldies stations. He regrets listening to some of the rebeluis music of the 90's because he missed out on the actual music of the 80s and 90s which he is catching up to now.

As for where all this is going, only time will tell. But the simply fact that Spotify has 4 million songs that are available for streaming that have NEVER once been picked to stream shows a huge issue with trying to guess what people really want. There are at least 100 songs that are among my favorites that are NOT available on Spotify, Tidal, or Pandora to which for 95% of them they can't give me a good reason why they are not available. A few of them are due to copyright disputes which prevents that from being sold/streamed/played such as a label and the rights being sold to another company and that company going bankrupt before really being setup so the material is in limbo. Also most streaming services don't even a means or method for songs to be added by request. I understand there is no good way or financial sense in adding just songs I like or want, but if there was a method for requesting additions and they reach X where it does make sense to add it, then make your customer base happy!

mherger
2017-12-14, 21:53
> There are at least 100 songs that are
> among my favorites that are NOT available on Spotify, Tidal, or Pandora
> to which for 95% of them they can't give me a good reason why they are
> not available.

I've still bought CDs this and last year from artists who refuse to be
on streaming platforms. They believe that shipping a CD overseas and
paying for a download infrastructure for 25USD still makes more money
than they'd get from Spotify and the likes. I must assume that decision
wasn't taken lightly, as they are re-presented on those services in
other groups or with other albums.

--

Michael

pablolie
2017-12-15, 01:46
If carrying some horrible music counts against Spotify, then it should also equally count against any large shop selling CDs. Crappy music is the norm in the music industry these days. Autotune is the real talent. Ugh.

I focus on the positive: I can find a lot of stuff I like (Jazz, Classical, Classic R&B) on Spotify. Often even obscure 80s albums. And have discovered new artists I like through Spotify.

What I find refreshing about this thread is people seem to be focusing on the music, rather than the sound quality. :-) It's rare. :-D

PS: My favs I still tend to buy on CD.

bakker_be
2017-12-15, 02:05
...

What I find refreshing about this thread is people seem to be focusing on the music, rather than the sound quality. :-) It's rare. :-D

PS: My favs I still tend to buy on CD.
I think that qualifies us as "Music-First Audiophiles" (http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/2017/06/what-is-a-music-first-audiophile/) :)
I still buy music as well, but try to avoid physical formats, Bandcamp and direct downloads from unsigned artists are the bulk of what I'm buying these days. Add to that the tons of CD's I'm now beginning to receive since starting a metal webzine with some friends (www.metalheads.be, Dutch only at the moment) ... We've been online a little over 2 weeks and I already have a backlog of around 20 albums to review :p

mlsstl
2017-12-15, 16:28
Second the motion for Bandcamp. It is a wonderful source for excellent music from a lot of artists otherwise ignored by the big labels.

SlimChances
2017-12-15, 19:01
Second the motion for Bandcamp. It is a wonderful source for excellent music from a lot of artists otherwise ignored by the big labels.

Yes I have discovered a fair bit of music there and it gives the artists a much bigger cut of the sales than Spotify I think

mherger
2017-12-15, 21:27
>> Second the motion for Bandcamp. It is a wonderful source for excellent
>> music from a lot of artists otherwise ignored by the big labels.
>
> Yes I have discovered a fair bit of music there and it gives the artists
> a much bigger cut of the sales than Spotify I think

But keep in mind that you're supposed to BUY stuff there, not only
stream on your SB. Otherwise those artists don't see a cent. Which is
still less than the 0.00012 cents they'd get from Spotify.

--

Michael

pablolie
2017-12-15, 22:07
>>. Which is
still less than the 0.00012 cents they'd get from Spotify.
l

.00012 cents * a billion is still worth more than $1 off a CD no one buys anymore.

Artists make their adult business decisions. I'll respect that and shall support them through several channels. But a very well respected jazz artist that most would know told me he used to make close to $500k with his bi-yearly CD releases (and over a mill in his heyday), and now it's barely worth his time. He now makes half of that in Amazon sales, he didn't even know if he sold any on HDtracks (I bought some of his remasters there), and he loves Spotify payments for his old albums. I won't disclose his name because it's private. Been a fan for over 30 years. I repeat - live concerts and Spotify pay his bills now. His words. Oh he also mentioned he hated his major label contract and the politics of what he did - forced to do the same formula. I was taken back because I was like "Uhm I like the formula, I was a fan of it". :-D

It'd be easy to blame online media etc. But the culprit is the music industry. They squeezed him out of his contract with more predatory tactics that (I think, but don't know) Spotify would use, and he hasn't been on a major label for 15 years. He thinks he's better off with the current model.

mherger
2017-12-15, 22:23
Am 16.12.17 um 06:07 schrieb pablolie:
>
> mherger wrote:
>>>> . Which is
>> still less than the 0.00012 cents they'd get from Spotify.
>> l
>
> .00012 cents * a billion is still worth more than $1 of a CD no one buys
> anymore.

Exactly. Your quote is lacking a bit of context: I was saying that while
Bandcamp did pay the artists better than Spotify, this was only true if
you actually bought on Bandcamp, rather than just enjoyed the free ride
using my plugin.

--

Michael

SlimChances
2017-12-16, 06:40
Am 16.12.17 um 06:07 schrieb pablolie:
>
> mherger wrote:
>>>> . Which is
>> still less than the 0.00012 cents they'd get from Spotify.
>> l
>
> .00012 cents * a billion is still worth more than $1 of a CD no one buys
> anymore.

Exactly. Your quote is lacking a bit of context: I was saying that while
Bandcamp did pay the artists better than Spotify, this was only true if
you actually bought on Bandcamp, rather than just enjoyed the free ride
using my plugin.

--

Michael

Pricing on Bandcamp is quite reasonable and I have bought quite a few albums