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View Full Version : Smart people will stay with Squeezebox



frankd
2017-09-01, 13:55
A provocative title to counter all the "I will leave the Squeezebox Community" threads.
I am really astonished how many people state in this forum that they leave the community and Switch to Sonos and other systems. I will stay with Squeezebox and actually I am buying used equipment for my friends to provide them with the best experience of music ever:
in my personal opinion, the Squeezebox experience has never been as good and as cheap as it is now. Let me explain why I prefer squeezebox versus all other solutions on the market:

- Software players are available for all major operating systems including android, Mac, Linux, Iphone, Windows...
- Many control software is available on all operating systems (android, windows, iphone...)
- Cost-effective Squeezebox compatible servers are available, e.g Raspberry Pi (even MusicIP works there), with 150 USD you can have your own "NAS" and squeezebox server...
- It is compatible to the outside world (e.g. Apple, DLNA, Chromecast) thank to Philippe
- Redundant plugins for the potential shutdown of Mysqueeezebox.com already exist (the big elephant in the room) - No worries about the future, (tune-in bv Michael Herger, Shoutcast, Ickstream and more...)
- Philippe made our system compatible to the broader outside world: Chromecast, Apple Airplay, DLNA, I have never seene such a compatibility list for any other system...
- all major streaming services are available (I do not use them personally, thus a disclaimer I do not know about the quality of integretaion)
- There are many Raspberry-based solutions for enpoints, i.E. Streaming devices at low costs with good DACs, digital outputs etc...
- In contrast to many other streaming hardware, you have direct feedback (screens) and interaction possibilities (buttons...), do not underestimate the haptic feedback e.g.from the controller units
- You can adapt your setup to the smallest detail (this was the big problem in the past - too tricky to setup if you do not know what you are doing).
- for every problem you find answers in this community or even software, workarounds, bugfixes...

I struggle to see the reason why people leave this community - nothing has changed, all is better than ever before...
A special thanks to Michael Herger, Philippe, Erik and all the others who contribute to this community and make the Squeezebox experience better than ever...

Apesbrain
2017-09-01, 16:16
I struggle to see the reason why people leave this community - nothing has changed, all is better than ever before...

For about $100 one can snap together components readily available on Amazon and have a player just as capable as the original Logitech hardware. Can't beat that!



A special thanks to Michael Herger, Philippe, Erik and all the others who contribute to this community and make the Squeezebox experience better than ever...
Couldn't agree more. Long live Squeezebox!

johtem
2017-09-01, 16:58
Almost 6 years ago my favorite radiostation stopped broadcoasting. I bought a Touch and a Nas, ripped al my CD's and discovered new internet radiostations. The Squeezebox is one of my best buys ever and really chanced the way of listening music.

I bought 3 radio's, a spare Touch, build a Picoreplayer with Hifiberry and one Pi with Max2Play with Kodi for my kids and LMS as server.

All the support from Michael and the guys from Picoreplayer and Max2Play is fantastic! And don't forget all the available plugins.

Like frankd i am always wondering why people chance to another system. I'm sure i will use the Squeezebox system as long as possible.

callesoroe
2017-09-07, 10:15
A provocative title to counter all the "I will leave the Squeezebox Community" threads.
I am really astonished how many people state in this forum that they leave the community and Switch to Sonos and other systems. I will stay with Squeezebox and actually I am buying used equipment for my friends to provide them with the best experience of music ever:
in my personal opinion, the Squeezebox experience has never been as good and as cheap as it is now. Let me explain why I prefer squeezebox versus all other solutions on the market:

- Software players are available for all major operating systems including android, Mac, Linux, Iphone, Windows...
- Many control software is available on all operating systems (android, windows, iphone...)
- Cost-effective Squeezebox compatible servers are available, e.g Raspberry Pi (even MusicIP works there), with 150 USD you can have your own "NAS" and squeezebox server...
- It is compatible to the outside world (e.g. Apple, DLNA, Chromecast) thank to Philippe
- Redundant plugins for the potential shutdown of Mysqueeezebox.com already exist (the big elephant in the room) - No worries about the future, (tune-in bv Michael Herger, Shoutcast, Ickstream and more...)
- Philippe made our system compatible to the broader outside world: Chromecast, Apple Airplay, DLNA, I have never seene such a compatibility list for any other system...
- all major streaming services are available (I do not use them personally, thus a disclaimer I do not know about the quality of integretaion)
- There are many Raspberry-based solutions for enpoints, i.E. Streaming devices at low costs with good DACs, digital outputs etc...
- In contrast to many other streaming hardware, you have direct feedback (screens) and interaction possibilities (buttons...), do not underestimate the haptic feedback e.g.from the controller units
- You can adapt your setup to the smallest detail (this was the big problem in the past - too tricky to setup if you do not know what you are doing).
- for every problem you find answers in this community or even software, workarounds, bugfixes...

I struggle to see the reason why people leave this community - nothing has changed, all is better than ever before...
A special thanks to Michael Herger, Philippe, Erik and all the others who contribute to this community and make the Squeezebox experience better than ever...

+1 Still the most flexible music system on the market. And it has never worked better....

Jeff07971
2017-09-07, 11:37
+1 Still the most flexible music system on the market. And it has never worked better....

+1

d6jg
2017-09-07, 12:30
Yesterday I spun up a Plex server. Main reason was films ripped from DVD but I let it scan my music while it was at it. When it finished (quite a few hours later) I had a play with the Plex app on my iPhone. Underwhelmed on the music front. LMS coupled with iPeng does everything Plex does and a whole lot more.
Perfectly ok for films though.

iPhone
2017-09-07, 20:12
Yesterday I spun up a Plex server. Main reason was films ripped from DVD but I let it scan my music while it was at it. When it finished (quite a few hours later) I had a play with the Plex app on my iPhone. Underwhelmed on the music front. LMS coupled with iPeng does everything Plex does and a whole lot more.
Perfectly ok for films though.
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My main Servers are both Vortexboxes. One is for Music and the other is for Movies (One can run movies and music on one server but because my music and movie libraries dwarf several hundred average Squeezebox users collections, I run one for each format). The Vortexbox is its own OS Server based off of Fedora. It comes with LMS installed and after one click in the GUI to upgrade, one can add PLEX for Movies also. It also auto rips DVD, BluRay, and CDs. I have been running Vortexbox for years without issue. Plex does a good job plus adding Tonido to both Servers allows one to remotely search the server when shopping for movies or music to make sure one doesn't buy a movie or CD one already has! Squeezebox and LMS rule as far as I am concerned. It has worked flawlessly for over a decade for me. 95% of the people having problems either couldn't follow simple directions or didn't have a clue about creating a robust wireless network. Out of the hundreds of Squeezebox systems I personally troubleshot and fixed, most were proved to be a WiFi issue after I ran Ethernet to all the players (eliminating the Squeezeboxes, Server, and LMS as the issue).

I don't send time messing with my setup, I send my time Listening to Music and auto-ripping CDs and Movies! Thanks to Sean, Dean, Caleb, Michael, Joerg (at iPeng), all the Beta Guys, and so many others that made Slim Devices what it was and what it is: The Best Loss-Less Server/Player based Music Streaming option available today!!!
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d6jg
2017-09-08, 00:30
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My main Servers are both Vortexboxes. One is for Music and the other is for Movies (One can run movies and music on one server but because my music and movie libraries dwarf several hundred average Squeezebox users collections, I run one for each format). The Vortexbox is its own OS Server based off of Fedora. It comes with LMS installed and after one click in the GUI to upgrade, one can add PLEX for Movies also. It also auto rips DVD, BluRay, and CDs. I have been running Vortexbox for years without issue. Plex does a good job plus adding Tonido to both Servers allows one to remotely search the server when shopping for movies or music to make sure one doesn't buy a movie or CD one already has! Squeezebox and LMS rule as far as I am concerned. It has worked flawlessly for over a decade for me. 95% of the people having problems either couldn't follow simple directions or didn't have a clue about creating a robust wireless network. Out of the hundreds of Squeezebox systems I personally troubleshot and fixed, most were proved to be a WiFi issue after I ran Ethernet to all the players (eliminating the Squeezeboxes, Server, and LMS as the issue).

I don't send time messing with my setup, I send my time Listening to Music and auto-ripping CDs and Movies! Thanks to Sean, Dean, Caleb, Michael, Joerg (at iPeng), all the Beta Guys, and so many others that made Slim Devices what it was and what it is: The Best Loss-Less Server/Player based Music Streaming option available today!!!
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The Plex server I mentioned was on a VB which due to being on 32bit hardware and 2.3 won't run Spotty. LMS has moved to a Pi3 but because I had hacked about with the VB to get it to rip to and read from my NAS via NFS I am still using it for ripping but LMS is off. I switched Plex on to see what it was like for movies as opposed to Kodi which I normally use.

My main point though was that for music Plex is nowhere near as good as LMS



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

mlsstl
2017-09-08, 19:54
Will add my vote for the Squeezebox system. I started with one of the original SliMP3 players 15 years ago. Took the CD player out of my system after getting a SB3 and haven't looked back. Today, my 2 Touches continue to work perfectly and recently added a Raspberry Pi player to the group. The Vortexbox server has been plugging away for years with not much attention needed.

From the daily use perspective, I have no problem finding the music I want to play and it sounds great.

Most of the new gear I've seen since either has limitations, or is overpriced "audiophool" gear, or simply has a prettier interface. I don't want to spend money and give up features I already have. While I love music and enjoy it on a good system, audiophilia has gotten so silly over the years that the last thing I want to consider myself is an audiophile. As for pretty interfaces, the Touch is pretty nice and I don't need any more -- I"m listening to music, not looking at things. Roon makes a case for searching one's collection and finding other music that may interest me, but I don't like the subscription model for playing my own music and I'm really not having any problem finding the songs I'm in the mood for.

Some things are instant classics that simply work right for years and years. Squeezebox is one of those classics.

Recoveryone
2017-09-09, 09:22
6 Touches going strong, with a duet and Classic stored away as backups. Still would like to replace my old Transport that died a few years ago, but as many above have said I have not seen anything from this price point that can come close.

Apesbrain
2017-09-09, 09:46
Still would like to replace my old Transport that died a few years ago...

There are several "new in box" available on ebay.

emalvick
2017-09-11, 12:41
Thanks to Raspberry Pi there really isn't much of a need to go to any of the alternative media devices. Then it just comes down to server software, and as far as I can see there aren't many options that are as versatile as the LMS system. And, in the few places where LMS could be "better", no other system has offered the features.

sl7023
2017-09-11, 13:01
Have been using my Duets for a number of years, now with a couple of Raspberry Pi's added to the system. As mentioned earlier, it has never worked as well as it does now. It simply works. I don't think there's a better endorsement than that.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

timearp
2017-09-12, 07:21
Having spent the time ripping my CD's into FLAC, I can use pretty much any player. I do like my squeezeboxes/LMS but don't get as much time to use them as I'd like. If the wife would get on board and use them more we'd get so much more out of the system, it's got so many features that I've never used/needed. I like them, no need to change in my opinion.

Trying to get my dad to get one, maybe via a Pi would be a good idea?

emalvick
2017-09-12, 15:18
The Pi is akin to building your own squeezebox, although there are some out there that will even build it for you for a fee.

I like to tinker, and I like the idea of building something to meet my needs.

For instance, one of my foremost goals is going to be to build a Pi based system that is basically portable: (1) has the media library built into it (Hard-Drive) (2) hosts the LMS and is the player; has the speakers, (3) can act as a hot-spot to provide control through a phone (or perhaps blutooth if possible).

I'm pretty sure it is all possible because of the flexibility of how a Pi works, and there are many examples online where at least 2/3 of what I am looking for have been implemented simultaneously.

I've also built a couple of squeezeboxes that essentially function as duets. That was my primary goal when jumping into the system and trying to keep within the system. Eventually all the remaining duets will die, and I want to have something to stand-in its place. For those devices, I like the hi-fi outputs.

And, if you figure out how to do things, it is cheap compared to what the squeezebox devices originally cost and even what they cost on a used market now.

Finally, there are so many cool projects out there. You just have to be willing to be a bit hands-on.

JeffHart
2017-09-14, 08:17
Trying to get my dad to get one, maybe via a Pi would be a good idea?

Problem with recommending technology to family is you become their technical support. Having said that, I'm running LMS on a Pi3 using Max2Play and am very happy. Have the Spotty plug in and it's fairly reliable. Whenever things stop working (usually AirPlay), I use the Max2Play interface to install the latest nightly, reboot the Pi3 and all is good again. I'm using a Pi3 with the OS & library all on a 200GB SD card. If I had do it over again, would have put the OS on a smaller SD and the library on a USB stick, but couldn't find a small USB stick with 200GB and was only an 1/8" or so external.

If he's not particularly computer savvy and doesn't need multi-room audio, you might want to consider bluetooth speakers or a streaming device, like chromecast audio.

iPhone
2017-09-14, 10:32
Problem with recommending technology to family is you become their technical support.

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Yes that can be true, but the key to minimizing one's support role is to setup as perfect a system as possible. I installed LMS with SB'3 at my parents home and started my sister using Squeezebox. I upgraded my parents to SB Touch when Touch came out and my parents listen to Music all the time without any issues.

When we visit, I upgrade LMS version if one is available and add more music files. I haven't had to do anything else in over 9 years.
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skate
2017-09-15, 00:18
Back when Logitech decide to discontinue the Squeezebox, I grabbed one of the last SB Touch boxes I could find.
While the remote has since gone belly-up, the SBT itself is still doing a fine job, served by a Raspberry Pi running LMS.
I also recently got a new AV receiver with networking, plugged it into the switch shared by the SBT and Pi, and lo and behold, it picked up all the music from the LMS instantly, gapless, hires and all. :)
So even if my SBT should cease working completely, I'll still be staying in the ecosystem.

Here's a big "thank you!" to the developers making LMS far more awesome than it has ever been (even when it was "officially supported". :))

pablolie
2017-09-18, 11:30
Why would I even consider change? This will continue to fulfill my every need when it comes to music listening for a long time.

I was worried when the original UI applications for IOS and Android became obsolete, but there are perfect replacements out there. And there's always the web browser... :-)

And I continue to convert people - they see the stuff at my place (I think it's the sound quality that they're not used to, first and foremost) and want me to put something together for them. And buying used SB stuff is much cheaper than going with Sonos (and the integrated amps or speakers -ugh- in some Sonos systems simply aren't good enough for their price).

Thanks to the developers! And let's continue to support them!

Dogberry2
2017-09-18, 12:01
I have never seen any need to change platform. The server and various controllers (mostly Android, but I sometimes still use the Duet or a browser) work great, and the various players all sound good for the room I have them in. (Touches in the serious music listening rooms, Duet receivers in others, radios in kitchen and guest rooms, Booms in my office and bedroom--all sound great.) I also use my phone as a player, with good headphones and connected back to the home server, when I travel. It's a great system for flexibility, serving all the music needs I have, or expect to have in the foreseeable future. I have some financial investment in the hardware, and time invested in ripping/tagging/configuring. So this is what I'll be using for a long time. If one of the hardware players should die, I'll replace it with another.

The fact that Logitech chose to drop the line doesn't faze me; my infrastructure is in place, and I love it.

dhallag
2017-10-01, 09:20
Thought I would chime in here. Yes I agree also with everything everyone is saying which is why I still am with LMS at home. Phillip and Michael and many others have been amazing and we all owe them more gratitude than we can give them. I even tried Roonlabs for their 30 day trial and even through their Metadata display engine is unbelievable amazing, I chose not to move to them. (here is why https://community.roonlabs.com/t/thanks-roon-but-i-am-passing-for-the-following-reasons/31511/4). I also decided to use Bluesound in my office, mainly because their powernode 2 comes in a very very small single package and sounds leap years head of sonos and i just needed it for one zone.

However, you cannot discount challenges that LMS has (so a little tough love):
1. with the system being opensource, support for problems is mostly trial and error by the end user with support by the community here -- and that is usually by Philip or Michael. this can be unbelievable frustrating. I just had to install SSL on my QNAP NAS to get the podcasts working right. I am not exaggerating when I say that it took me 60 hours of my time, at least 10 different people over two different forums (here and the QNAP forum), probably 30 to 40 different posts on about 10 different threads, etc.. etc.. and worst of all, I had almost zero idea what I was doing. Most people won't do this, most when they try may break something else while fixing, etc.. etc.. even with my issue I saw over the forums that people broke things not related to their issue and just gave up.

2. to the above point, as 20 year old LMS equipment breaks down and as things need fixing (ie the above issue), you're going to get into Linux and the vast majority of people won't do this. and the ones here that aren't there yet, then they have to make that decision, they'll bail and go to something else. (Bluesound is the way to go over Sonos). And quite frankly, they shouldn't have to get into Linux.

3. there are just a ton of quarks to LMS, especially in the end user navigation, setup, plugins, etc.. the installation of plugins, the descriptions of them, the setup of plugins, then on top of all that, functionality appears to be somewhat hap-hazard and inconsistent and the server code itself needs a bit of love. in addition, there is no plausible avenue for someone who knows nothing about streaming and wants to get into it, to use LMS. unless that person is willing to spend 100's of hours researching and figuring out where to buy stuff, then set it all up via Linux, etc... someone who has a lot of experience with LMS will have to set it up for someone else. Another example of this is I use Deezer HiFi. (Tidal's music collection is not nearly as wide and deep as Deezer and although I can hear a bit of difference in some music between CD and 92/24, it's not enough to justify Tidal). However, to get all of Deezer working, I have to use it via ickstream and use it via mysqueezebox.com. Both ways are completely different in it's navigation and quite honestly, it's frustrating. Each source of music seems to work and navigate almost completely differently. It's stupidly frustrating. My wife, she can't use it. She has to ask me to play something specific because it's so confusing and she is always asking me to put things on favorites because the navigation is so different between each source of music. But I put up with it because I love opensource, I love LMS and I am willing to put in the stupid amount of time to insure it keeps working. The vast majority of people won't put up with it and like I said about, quite frankly, they shouldn't have to.

Companies like Roonlabs and Bluesound are making incredible strides. Eventually, their end user apps and server functionality will exceed that of LMS. I hope that doesn't happen and I would love to see LMS stay at the forefront of the market. For that to happen, I think very soon we as a community will have to decide that we need resources to clean up LMS, add functionality to keep it ahead of everyone else, and just make it easier and more consistent. I am wiling to do it. I am even will to pay money and learn Linux (which I sort of had to do to get the SSL thing working).

Anyway.. I love LMS and I hope we all continue to stay engaged.

iPhone
2017-10-02, 10:04
Thought I would chime in here. Yes I agree also with everything everyone is saying which is why I still am with LMS at home. Phillip and Michael and many others have been amazing and we all owe them more gratitude than we can give them. I even tried Roonlabs for their 30 day trial and even through their Metadata display engine is unbelievable amazing, I chose not to move to them. (here is why https://community.roonlabs.com/t/thanks-roon-but-i-am-passing-for-the-following-reasons/31511/4). I also decided to use Bluesound in my office, mainly because their powernode 2 comes in a very very small single package and sounds leap years head of sonos and i just needed it for one zone.. .. .. ..

Anyway.. I love LMS and I hope we all continue to stay engaged.


Many valid points as always dhallag. Yet I continue to see the major issue with today's Generation and today's hardware/software integration, which is today's youth mainly just want to use the latest and greatest ideas. Most really have no care as to how it works and more importantly to Squeezebox and LMS, they just want to turn it on having it completely ready to do what they bought it for. I have always wanted to know how it works while at the same time using it, I was the kid in the neighborhood that had to have the latest and greatest new electronic gizmo that just came out. I build my first crystal radio set at age 9 and by age 12 I was building my own RF Transceivers, Amplifiers, and Antennas. Again, teens today just want to turn it on.

This came to a huge realization when I walked out of the used CD Shop the other night. It is right beside a Starbucks and a 20 something came over and asked me why I still bought CDs? I said so that I can rip them and store them so I could play them back at home, in my car, and at our weekend getaways. He really didn't know how to rip CDs as he thought you just bought Songs from iTunes or Amazon or used Spotify. He said he had about bought about 30 gig of songs then started using Spotify instead of buying. I told him that I had complete albums, not just the one or two hit songs from albums bought via single song downloads. I told him I had 8TB of my favorite songs in the Thunderbird and showed him. I told him I owned them and didn't need to pay a monthly service fee or have an Internet connection to have access to them or play them. I did agree that for his monthly fee he had access to 30 Million Songs, and if I were just starting out today that it would be a hard choice to make for me but that some of the things I like will never be on Spotify so in the end I would still be owning and ripping CDs.

Sonos is dead to me for two main reasons: their system will not handle my huge music library and their over priced hardware is nowhere near the quality that I can buy on the open market for less money. As for Roon, it is a slick interface, but I am listening to music not wanting to watch Metadata. When I am watching and listening, that is a Blu-ray or DVD in my home theater room. LMS just does what I need it to do. Years ago, I converted over to Vortexbox for my servers and have never looked back because Vortexbox runs Tonido, Plex, and LMS perfectly for me.

Learning Linux has been talked about, but one really doesn't need to unless one wants to get the most out of ones server and LMS. And it is not like one needs to write ones own code, one just needs to learn how to SSH and then follow directions others more versed in Linux in the community provide. But Linux is king in my opinion, who in the world can work with Microsoft Server or Windows 10 OS? Many of my friends and neighbors are using LMS and Squeezebox now, and I have upgraded everyone of them to Vortexbox because all they have to do is feed their Vortexbox a CD anytime they buy new music.

There is a reason many people use iTunes, and the main reason is NOT that it is the best choice for listening to music! It is because it is point and click and comes preinstalled on almost everything Apple and it just works!
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Julf
2017-10-02, 11:25
Many valid points as always dhallag. Yet I continue to see the major issue with today's Generation and today's hardware/software integration, which is today's youth mainly just want to use the latest and greatest ideas.

I think it is worse than that. When I was growing up, you could take stuff apart, figure it out, and understand it. Modern stuff is all a board with identical-looking SMD chips, and everything is done in software that you have no access to. Clarke's Third Law at work - any technology you can't understand is just magic to you, and that's how you think about it.

dhallag
2017-10-02, 12:39
Many valid points as always dhallag. Yet I continue to see the major issue with today's Generation and today's hardware/software integration, which is today's youth mainly just want to use the latest and greatest ideas. Most really have no care as to how it works and more importantly to Squeezebox and LMS, they just want to turn it on having it completely ready to do what they bought it for. I have always wanted to know how it works while at the same time using it, I was the kid in the neighborhood that had to have the latest and greatest new electronic gizmo that just came out. I build my first crystal radio set at age 9 and by age 12 I was building my own RF Transceivers, Amplifiers, and Antennas. Again, teens today just want to turn it on.

This came to a huge realization when I walked out of the used CD Shop the other night. It is right beside a Starbucks and a 20 something came over and asked me why I still bought CDs? I said so that I can rip them and store them so I could play them back at home, in my car, and at our weekend getaways. He really didn't know how to rip CDs as he thought you just bought Songs from iTunes or Amazon or used Spotify. He said he had about bought about 30 gig of songs then started using Spotify instead of buying. I told him that I had complete albums, not just the one or two hit songs from albums bought via single song downloads. I told him I had 8TB of my favorite songs in the Thunderbird and showed him. I told him I owned them and didn't need to pay a monthly service fee or have an Internet connection to have access to them or play them. I did agree that for his monthly fee he had access to 30 Million Songs, and if I were just starting out today that it would be a hard choice to make for me but that some of the things I like will never be on Spotify so in the end I would still be owning and ripping CDs.

Sonos is dead to me for two main reasons: their system will not handle my huge music library and their over priced hardware is nowhere near the quality that I can buy on the open market for less money. As for Roon, it is a slick interface, but I am listening to music not wanting to watch Metadata. When I am watching and listening, that is a Blu-ray or DVD in my home theater room. LMS just does what I need it to do. Years ago, I converted over to Vortexbox for my servers and have never looked back because Vortexbox runs Tonido, Plex, and LMS perfectly for me.

Learning Linux has been talked about, but one really doesn't need to unless one wants to get the most out of ones server and LMS. And it is not like one needs to write ones own code, one just needs to learn how to SSH and then follow directions others more versed in Linux in the community provide. But Linux is king in my opinion, who in the world can work with Microsoft Server or Windows 10 OS? Many of my friends and neighbors are using LMS and Squeezebox now, and I have upgraded everyone of them to Vortexbox because all they have to do is feed their Vortexbox a CD anytime they buy new music.

There is a reason many people use iTunes, and the main reason is NOT that it is the best choice for listening to music! It is because it is point and click and comes preinstalled on almost everything Apple and it just works!
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Yes to all of the above. ;) At the same time, I see the market a little differently. So I live in Chicago and have good relations with two high end audio consultants here called "Decibel" and "Audio Consultants" I too am frustrated with companies like Sonos and Apple and Spotify as they I feel are complicit with it being ok to listen to crappy quality music. Decibel is expanding it's services and Audio Consultant is consolidating. I don't think it's a coincidence that a short time after the move from CD's to digital music streaming, there's been an upsurge in vinyl. Even in crappy home systems, the vinyl sounds better. At the same time, much of the move also has to do with the listening experience -- reading a seeing the music and the artist. And people including me want convenience. The debate about the difference between the purist listener who doesn't care about metadata versus the convenience of digital media streaming is crap. It's the wrong debate to be having because it puts us at odds over the entire music experience. There is no one right way or wrong way to listen to music. We need to stop fighting about our turf and understand that the entire music experience is important: music source quality, ease of use, ease of access, how you listen to music, metadata, and how it sounds. And we have the technology to bring it all together. I spent a ton of time, effort and money to insure that my music sounds excellent within excess dollars. Everyone loves the sound of my place. At the same time, everyone loves the klarita Muso "Now Playing" screen that they see while listening to music.

If we want LMS to be around for a while, we gotta address this as a community and put away our 'elitist' turf wars. Companies like BlueSound and Roonlabs will be eating LMS's lunch in two - five years if we don't.

RonM
2017-10-02, 13:46
I think it is worse than that. When I was growing up, you could take stuff apart, figure it out, and understand it. Modern stuff is all a board with identical-looking SMD chips, and everything is done in software that you have no access to. Clarke's Third Law at work - any technology you can't understand is just magic to you, and that's how you think about it.

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."

It's as true now as it was in the 50s.

The big intervening variable then, as now, was the particular technological sophistication of the individual concerned. Sure, some of us could assemble a crystal radio or clock alarm or such from components, but how many of us actually knew what a "resistor" or a "transistor" did? Some, but not most. It was just all magic that you could string together following instructions and it would work and we had the illusion of building something from scratch. But not really.

Most of the world back in the day just took the available technology (electricity, radio, tv) as an available resource, and had no real sense of what made it all work. Same now.

I really like having my own collection of "owned" (or, let's be honest, in a few instances "stolen") music. I love using LMS, and enjoy tinkering. But if I were starting out on the music appreciation path now I'd probably be using streaming services almost exclusively, and discovering new music that way, taking in live music when I could, and discovering new music THAT way as well, and gleefully taking advantage of the all-you-can-hear buffet.

And I wouldn't need to understand how the streaming services work and why they are so effective at finding new music I'll like. It's just magic.

R.

d6jg
2017-10-02, 14:21
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."

It's as true now as it was in the 50s.

The big intervening variable then, as now, was the particular technological sophistication of the individual concerned. Sure, some of us could assemble a crystal radio or clock alarm or such from components, but how many of us actually knew what a "resistor" or a "transistor" did? Some, but not most. It was just all magic that you could string together following instructions and it would work and we had the illusion of building something from scratch. But not really.

Most of the world back in the day just took the available technology (electricity, radio, tv) as an available resource, and had no real sense of what made it all work. Same now.

I really like having my own collection of "owned" (or, let's be honest, in a few instances "stolen") music. I love using LMS, and enjoy tinkering. But if I were starting out on the music appreciation path now I'd probably be using streaming services almost exclusively, and discovering new music that way, taking in live music when I could, and discovering new music THAT way as well, and gleefully taking advantage of the all-you-can-hear buffet.

And I wouldn't need to understand how the streaming services work and why they are so effective at finding new music I'll like. It's just magic.

R.

I agree in the main but also disagree to an extent about discovering new music through streaming services. There is too much of it available so it becomes disposable and rarely a valid source of new music.
Back in the day we had a much more limited choice largely based on certain key radio shows - John Peel for instance - perhaps 2 hours long. We bought records by hitherto unknown artists because we heard them first on Peel.
Nowadays Spotify gives you too much choice?



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

emalvick
2017-10-03, 10:19
There were a couple of good and contrasting points made above, and I think both are valid.

I agree with the assessment that LMS has its quirks and isn't perhaps the friendliest game to get into. It's showing its age with regard to streaming services, etc., and of course the abandonment by Logitech didn't help things. From that regard, perhaps it could use an overhaul, but that isn't always straight forward. I've seen a few other software change over to Open Source, and it isn't the smoothest thing, even if everything keeps working fairly well.

As for the other side of the comment about being able to work, tinker, build, troubleshoot; that argument is fine, but both points of view shouldn't be mutually exclusive. I like to work under the hood and understand software, but when I start with any new program, I want to see it work without much effort. I can only figure out what I want to tinker with after I see it work in its default settings. I always find it frustrating when things have to be tweaked from the beginning because it doesn't work out of the box.

Of course LMS did work out of the box for me, mostly, almost 10 years ago when I started with it. It's the unfortunate aftermath of Logitech discontinuing development that has led to the challenges today. Some bugs persist from the beginning and stream services now are not the same as they were then. I am most thankful that it has been allowed to continue on. I like hearing there are other servers and systems coming about, but as long as LMS works for me, I'll stick with it, perhaps comforted by the knowledge as other systems might be adequate in the future when or if the need arises to switch from LMS.

Apesbrain
2017-10-03, 10:39
As far as playing music from your own collection and internet radio, I know of nothing the equal of LMS. It's gapless, supports up to DSD128, controllable on any platform, easy to install/configure, host to dozens of useful plugins, and free. I've been running it on a dedicated Windows PC for a dozen years and have never had a serious problem with it. Currently running the latest 7.9.1 beta and controlling 5 Squeezeboxes and 5 portable devices via web browser and Orange Squeeze. I don't know if it makes me "smart", but I have no intention of moving to something different.

travelfotografer
2017-10-03, 22:35
It's gapless, supports up to DSD128, controllable on any platform, easy to install/configure, host to dozens of useful plugins, and free.

Can you elaborate on support for DSD128? Is it via Touch or other third party transport? I m using Touch with EDO plugin to feed my DAC via USB. My DAC plays DSD64 n DSD128 both via DoP. Touch is limited to 192kHz PCM so DoP support is limited to DSD64 over 176kHz PCM.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

JerryS
2017-10-04, 04:05
There is another dimension to this debate. It may be a generational thing but I like to own stuff. I don't much admire myself for this as I can see the ethical, philosophical, social and environmental benefits of the commons. In another life, I would like to be a Zen monk. But as I am, my music collection, which I have chosen, purchased, ripped and obsessively tagged is now a part of my life, history and being. If I were younger maybe streaming would float my boat and there may be alternative or better solutions for this but as it is, nothing handles a curated personal collection of music better than Squeezebox which is an essential part of my life.

Apesbrain
2017-10-04, 05:16
Can you elaborate on support for DSD128? Is it via Touch or other third party transport? I m using Touch with EDO plugin to feed my DAC via USB. My DAC plays DSD64 n DSD128 both via DoP. Touch is limited to 192kHz PCM so DoP support is limited to DSD64 over 176kHz PCM.
Sorry, you may be correct that Touch is limited to DSD64. I think I was confusing the fact that there is a DoP spec for DSD128 with the idea that Touch supports DoP. There is a way for DSD128 to be supported via 24/176 PCM, but I don't know if Squeezebox supports it:

http://dsd-guide.com/dop-open-standard#.WdTQVmhSy00

EDIT: This third-party player claims support for high-rate DSD/DoP using Squeezelite: http://www.sonore.us/Sonicorbiter.html
It's not clear to me whether LMS is the server being used and what plugins may be required.

Tony T
2017-10-04, 06:44
Smart people will stay with Squeezebox

Well, yes, but I can see why someone would "move on" to Sono's. When a company stop selling a product, and the only way to add new players is to buy used (or build your own), well, that's the time to think of an alternative.

What I never understood was why Logitech did not make their UE Wireless speakers (and other brands) compatible with LMS. It would be great if there was a way to have a portable wireless (or BT) speaker connect to my LMS.

Anyway, I have an extra Touch and an SBRadio in storage if I need it (bought when Logitech announced their demise). (I also have a few extra iPod shuffles bought when Apple announced their demise).

And this is a good time for me to thank this community (esp. Michael) for keeping LMS updated (to 7.9.1) and also a thank you to Logitech for keeping this Forum running.

alfista
2017-10-04, 07:26
What I never understood was why Logitech did not make their UE Wireless speakers (and other brands) compatible with LMS. It would be great if there was a way to have a portable wireless (or BT) speaker connect to my LMS.
Could be many reasons, at the top I suspect is that it just was two completely different departments under the Logitech umbrella working on the products, possibly on opposite sides of the world. Typical for big companies.
And if they against all odds were aware of each other, most likely they didn't see that the potential increase in sales LMS compatibility might generate would warrant the increased development cost. That would have been my assessment at least.
I also suspect that most speakers of that kind (regardless of brand) for cost reasons are built around a few pretty specialized chipsets. Probably somewhere between difficult and impossible to implement the necessary protocols.

Apesbrain
2017-10-04, 08:45
What I never understood was why Logitech did not make their UE Wireless speakers (and other brands) compatible with LMS. It would be great if there was a way to have a portable wireless (or BT) speaker connect to my LMS.
I certainly get your point, but any BT speaker can connect to a phone/tablet running SqueezePlayer or iOS equivalent. Do it all the time.

Tony T
2017-10-04, 09:30
I certainly get your point, but any BT speaker can connect to a phone/tablet running SqueezePlayer or iOS equivalent. Do it all the time.

Wouldn't that drain the phone's battery?
(I've considered this to get stereo, but instead I just sync 2 SB Radio's configured for left/right output)

castalla
2017-10-04, 10:06
Could be many reasons, at the top I suspect is that it just was two completely different departments under the Logitech umbrella working on the products, possibly on opposite sides of the world. Typical for big companies.
And if they against all odds were aware of each other, most likely they didn't see that the potential increase in sales LMS compatibility might generate would warrant the increased development cost. That would have been my assessment at least.
I also suspect that most speakers of that kind (regardless of brand) for cost reasons are built around a few pretty specialized chipsets. Probably somewhere between difficult and impossible to implement the necessary protocols.

Many wifi speakers with upnp/dlna & airplay features can be easily be used as players using the bridge plugins.

dhallag
2017-10-04, 13:15
There is another dimension to this debate. It may be a generational thing but I like to own stuff. I don't much admire myself for this as I can see the ethical, philosophical, social and environmental benefits of the commons. In another life, I would like to be a Zen monk. But as I am, my music collection, which I have chosen, purchased, ripped and obsessively tagged is now a part of my life, history and being. If I were younger maybe streaming would float my boat and there may be alternative or better solutions for this but as it is, nothing handles a curated personal collection of music better than Squeezebox which is an essential part of my life.

Yes +1 for me as well.

d6jg
2017-10-04, 13:43
Yes +1 for me as well.

And +1 for me BUT I do also like streaming from Spotify as implemented by Spotty, DSTM and LastMix when I forget I am my own DJ and fail to add to my playlist before it ends.

Although I appreciate Michael's efforts with Spotify Connect I can't see me using it in earnest I am quite happy with DSTM & Lastmix and the standard Spotty interface if I want something specific. That said I guess 80% of my listening is local files.

chamonix
2017-10-04, 17:17
Ron M wrote
I really like having my own collection of "owned" (or, let's be honest, in a few instances "stolen") music. I love using LMS, and enjoy tinkering. But if I were starting out on the music appreciation path now I'd probably be using streaming services almost exclusively, and discovering new music that way, taking in live music when I could, and discovering new music THAT way as well, and gleefully taking advantage of the all-you-can-hear buffet.

I too have a lot of my own music, but generally burn my own CD copies, for the car, the cottage, etc on my desktop computer. Some I make direct Hi-def CD copies. Other times I will rip a CD to mP3 to get more music on a single disc..Then if they get scratched up, I still have the original new CD. I listen to Pandora a lot , on my SB3s and that way I hear new music, or from various radio "stations" too.

As for my Squeezboxes, I have 2 pre-Logitech SB3s. A major panic when one lost an output channel, but this great forum suggested get a TOS/digital cable, and use the digital output into a compatible stereo receiver. Well I have an old Pioneer VSX-820 and now that SB3 is sending 2 channels again to my KEF 105.4s. Second SB3 is in our bedroom.
I too am listening to streaming music a lot, mainly Pandora with my favorite music channels , Cat Power, Joni Mitchel, Sneaker Pimps etc. The ability to stream any online radio station in the world is cool too. I had a friend visiting from Ottawa, Canada, and I quickly was streaming his favorite Ottawa CBC radio station from my system..He was impressed, having no knowledge of how a stand alone streaming music player works..
I do worry what will happen when/if the LMS server we all depend on, goes down for good.

Goodsounds
2017-10-11, 12:13
apesbrain said:

"For about $100 one can snap together components readily available on Amazon and have a player just as capable as the original Logitech hardware. Can't beat that!"


I'm a LONGTIME fan and user of the Squeezebox system, dating back to when I picked up my first product boxes at the Slim Devices office in Mountain View. I also used to be a regular visitor to these forums though I haven't been here for some years.

Some of my well used hardware pieces (a couple of Classics, a Touch) are starting to show signs of mortality. I'm not technically oriented beyond what I could learn here years ago to set up, put together, and easily operate a life changing music system in my home.

As my Squeezebox hardware pieces die and the few spares I accumulated follow the same fate, what alternatives do I have for player hardware to remain within the Squeezebox world?

Thanks

RonM
2017-10-11, 12:58
apesbrain said:

"For about $100 one can snap together components readily available on Amazon and have a player just as capable as the original Logitech hardware. Can't beat that!"


I'm a LONGTIME fan and user of the Squeezebox system, dating back to when I picked up my first product boxes at the Slim Devices office in Mountain View. I also used to be a regular visitor to these forums though I haven't been here for some years.

Some of my well used hardware pieces (a couple of Classics, a Touch) are starting to show signs of mortality. I'm not technically oriented beyond what I could learn here years ago to set up, put together, and easily operate a life changing music system in my home.

As my Squeezebox hardware pieces die and the few spares I accumulated follow the same fate, what alternatives do I have for player hardware to remain within the Squeezebox world?

Thanks

I personally have an all-SB household, with spares available when necessary. However, given the status of the SB ecosystem, I have been heartened to see all the development around RaspberryPi devices and related things like Max2Play. Others will be able to point you to the necessary information, and when they do I'll take careful note of the information for my own future use.

R.

gungrog
2017-10-11, 15:20
apesbrain said:

As my Squeezebox hardware pieces die and the few spares I accumulated follow the same fate, what alternatives do I have for player hardware to remain within the Squeezebox world?

Thanks

My much-loved SB3 died a couple of years back, so I got a Pi and a Digi+ (which just plug together), followed all the instructions on the piCorePlayer site (https://sites.google.com/site/picoreplayer/home), and had no problems at all getting it working.

I've since added another Pi (built into an old radio chassis), and I keep meaning to add a touch screen...

For a 'straight-forward' option, it can't be beat... :cool:

buffettck
2017-10-11, 16:38
I'm thinking about dumping my SBR for something else simply because it loves to stop playing my favorite radio stations for good. I updated to the UE firmware to get the iHeart radio stations back, but they've been going away over time, too. Now, my favorite (and only really) local new station won't play anymore. The SBR is an ancient piece of hardware and Logitech hasn't officially supported it in a long time. Time for something else.

Apesbrain
2017-10-11, 18:32
As my Squeezebox hardware pieces die and the few spares I accumulated follow the same fate, what alternatives do I have for player hardware to remain within the Squeezebox world?
Instruction guide and parts list:

http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?107948-Hi-Def-Audio-24bit-96-khz-Playback-How-to-achieve-it/page3&p=894608#post894608

philippe_44
2017-10-11, 18:56
As my Squeezebox hardware pieces die and the few spares I accumulated follow the same fate, what alternatives do I have for player hardware to remain within the Squeezebox world?

Thanks

As other said, Pi with pcP is a very good option. You can also use my plugins to add an UPnP player (including Sonos), a Chromecast device or any AirPlay compatible player (many AV amplifier and a lot of speakers like the Yamaha WX-nnn family, GGMM, Libratone ...

I order of preference, I'd put (highest to lowest) Airplay, Chromecast and UPnP

Goodsounds
2017-10-11, 22:30
I appreciate the time spent to respond to my question.

I know the SB user group has long been full of clever, very capable and resourceful people. Back when I was a more active visitor to the forum, I'd often see projects discussed that were well beyond anything I could understand, much less do myself. It looks like it's possible to produce player functionality but it involves putting together hardware pieces, doing linux setup steps, and interacting with a linux server going forward. No matter how simple for many, these are not things I have an interest in doing.

I'll keep following this thread. My take away is that options are available but are not feasible to be accomplished by me. My best or maybe even only alternative may be to get Sonos equipment as my hardware dies.

Thanks again, I sincerely appreciate the responses.

philippe_44
2017-10-11, 23:18
I appreciate the time spent to respond to my question.

I know the SB user group has long been full of clever, very capable and resourceful people. Back when I was a more active visitor to the forum, I'd often see projects discussed that were well beyond anything I could understand, much less do myself. It looks like it's possible to produce player functionality but it involves putting together hardware pieces, doing linux setup steps, and interacting with a linux server going forward. No matter how simple for many, these are not things I have an interest in doing.

I'll keep following this thread. My take away is that options are available but are not feasible to be accomplished by me. My best or maybe even only alternative may be to get Sonos equipment as my hardware dies.

Thanks again, I sincerely appreciate the responses.

Up to you, but in my examples, it does not include doing any hardware setup. Take a speaker or amplifier that is compatible with airplay (there are many) and simply add 'airplay bridge' plugin from the plugin list page in LMS

bernt
2017-10-11, 23:38
Up to you, but in my examples, it does not include doing any hardware setup. Take a speaker or amplifier that is compatible with airplay (there are many) and simply add 'airplay bridge' plugin from the plugin list page in LMS

Audio Pro C5 is a perfect SB Radio or Boom replacement if you run LMS. Just a few clicks and you have a brand new SB.

All you need is LMS and AirPlay bridge.

d6jg
2017-10-12, 03:49
Non Logitech player options (2017)

Raspberry Pi (with optional DAC) - piCorePlayer / Max2Play / Raspbian etc
iOS device - with iPeng or Squeezepad apps with player option enabled (recycle an old iPhone as a player ?)

AirPlay device - requires Phillipe's AirBridge plugin - 16/44.1 max - will sync
Chromecast device - requires CastBridge plugin - 24/96 - no sync
uPnP/DLNA device - requires uPnP/DLNA Bridge - can be very difficult to set up as the DLNA protocols have no standards - ok for Sonos though as that is why Phillipe wrote it
Android device - with various apps

For AirPlay/Chromecast - don't just think the native devices. There are lots of devices on the market that use these protocols including some TVs in the case of Chromecast

Windows / Mac PC - with Squeezeplay/Squeezelite
Linux PC - Squeezelite
o2 Joggler - flashed with SqueezeOS (secondhand only)

I am sure there are others

It is possible to buy a fully pre-built Raspberry Pi with Touchscreen for the non techie types

Apesbrain
2017-10-12, 06:55
No matter how simple for many, these are not things I have an interest in doing.

Here's a nice pre-built option. Once piCorePlayer has been written to the SD card, this is a "plug-and-play" Squeezebox. At $275 shipped it's twice the price of doing it yourself, but you get a nice case with power button and what appear to be quality parts:
AUDIOPHONICS RASPDAC LTE I-SABRE V3 - STREAMER RASPBERRY PI & DAC TCXO (https://www.audiophonics.fr/en/raspdac-rasptouch/audiophonics-raspdac-lte-es9023-sabre-tcxo-network-player-raspberry-pi-3-p-11991.html)

And remember, any old smartphone or tablet can become a basic Squeezebox with the installation of a cheap player app. There are many Android mini-PCs marketed on eBay as "TV boxes" that will do the job. Use the analog output or add a USB DAC. Here's one with S/PDIF:
X96 4K Mini PC S905X Quad Core Android 6.0 TV Box (http://www.ebay.com/itm/X96-4K-Mini-PC-S905X-Quad-Core-Android-6-0-TV-Box-DLNA-WiFi-UHD-Media-1-8G-2-16G-/112518057763)

When and if the time comes, someone will be here to help you.

Mushroom_3
2017-10-12, 09:27
I appreciate the time spent to respond to my question.

I know the SB user group has long been full of clever, very capable and resourceful people. Back when I was a more active visitor to the forum, I'd often see projects discussed that were well beyond anything I could understand, much less do myself. It looks like it's possible to produce player functionality but it involves putting together hardware pieces, doing linux setup steps, and interacting with a linux server going forward. No matter how simple for many, these are not things I have an interest in doing.

I'll keep following this thread. My take away is that options are available but are not feasible to be accomplished by me. My best or maybe even only alternative may be to get Sonos equipment as my hardware dies.

Thanks again, I sincerely appreciate the responses.

I have 3 Rpi's around the house doing various things quite sucessfully. I can barely spell Linux (and certainly can't pronounce it!) let alone do setup stuff, but following the advice above you will be able to do it all without giving it more than a galncing blow.
And before you rush into Sonus give this article a good read:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/10/11/sonos_privacy_speakers/

Sonos is not nearly as flexible as Squeezebox - and 4 times as expensive! It's well worth giving d6 and Mr Brains' advice careful consideration in my humble opinion.

Jeff07971
2017-10-12, 09:33
I have 3 Rpi's around the house doing various things quite sucessfully. I can barely spell Linux (and certainly can't pronounce it!) let alone do setup stuff, but following the advice above you will be able to do it all without giving it more than a galncing blow.
And before you rush into Sonus give this article a good read:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/10/11/sonos_privacy_speakers/

Sonos is not nearly as flexible as Squeezebox - and 4 times as expensive! It's well worth giving d6 and Mr Brains' advice careful consideration in my humble opinion.

http://www.ep.ph.bham.ac.uk/poynters/mirror/linux.wav

;)

d6jg
2017-10-12, 11:09
http://www.ep.ph.bham.ac.uk/poynters/mirror/linux.wav

;)

Brilliant find!

Goodsounds
2017-10-12, 11:35
Oh boy, thanks guys. I guess I gave an unintended but clear demonstration of my ineptness. I didn't understand what was said. This second round of responses together with the first give me a much clearer view.

Another dumb question then, so I can better understand Philippe's comment about airplay bridge.

The active equipment I have is two Classic 3s, a Touch, and a Boom. (It's the Boom that seems to be dying and I'm thrilled to learn of the Audio Pro C5. Thank you!)

I've stayed with Squeezebox Server version 7.6.1 just because it works fine and I'm not a tinkerer. If I switch to LMS to allow me to use the airplay bridge plug-in and maybe the Chromecast one too, will the functionality and appearance, and compatibility with Android and Apple apps I use to control the players, continue and be similar?

Thanks again. Nothing like having experts available to help the feeble minded.

d6jg
2017-10-12, 11:58
Oh boy, thanks guys. I guess I gave an unintended but clear demonstration of my ineptness. I didn't understand what was said. This second round of responses together with the first give me a much clearer view.

Another dumb question then, so I can better understand Philippe's comment about airplay bridge.

The active equipment I have is two Classic 3s, a Touch, and a Boom. (It's the Boom that seems to be dying and I'm thrilled to learn of the Audio Pro C5. Thank you!)

I've stayed with Squeezebox Server version 7.6.1 just because it works fine and I'm not a tinkerer. If I switch to LMS to allow me to use the airplay bridge plug-in and maybe the Chromecast one too, will the functionality and appearance, and compatibility with Android and Apple apps I use to control the players, continue and be similar?

Thanks again. Nothing like having experts available to help the feeble minded.

What do you run 7.6.1 on?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

philippe_44
2017-10-12, 12:52
Oh boy, thanks guys. I guess I gave an unintended but clear demonstration of my ineptness. I didn't understand what was said. This second round of responses together with the first give me a much clearer view.

Another dumb question then, so I can better understand Philippe's comment about airplay bridge.

The active equipment I have is two Classic 3s, a Touch, and a Boom. (It's the Boom that seems to be dying and I'm thrilled to learn of the Audio Pro C5. Thank you!)

I've stayed with Squeezebox Server version 7.6.1 just because it works fine and I'm not a tinkerer. If I switch to LMS to allow me to use the airplay bridge plug-in and maybe the Chromecast one too, will the functionality and appearance, and compatibility with Android and Apple apps I use to control the players, continue and be similar?

Thanks again. Nothing like having experts available to help the feeble minded.

I've never tested with 7.6.x and I've set the min required version to be 7.7.x, unfortunately. Maybe it will work if I change the requirement, maybe not, that I really don't know.

On the positive side, my bridges act such as the upnp, chromecast or airplay players appear as if they were real SB devices. So all the apps you use to interact with LMS remain the same, you just happen to have new players, that's all. The limit for upnp and chromecast is that gapless, synchronization, fade in/out/cross does not work. None of these limits exist with AirPlay, but the audio is resampled to be 44.1/16 - which is not a problem as far as I'm concerned.

UPnP is the most difficult to configure, Chromecast should work out of the box as well as 90% of AirPlay devices. You just need to make sure that your firewall is not blocking the communication.

On a different note, your Boom is likely fixable. Jo here offer a good service doing that. In any case, don't throw it away, a lot of people would be happy to buy & fix it if one day you don't want it anymore

Goodsounds
2017-10-12, 16:04
I have Squeezebox Server on an always-on Lenovo nettop that they refer to as a "Tiny Desktop". The model is M53 (since renumbered in the product line) with Win 7. It also serves as the central point for network storage and backup with an external drive (that also contains the music files) and it's where the network printer is connected. The configuration dates back more than a decade to when printers weren't wireless and neither printers nor hard drives could be easily connected to routers. I've kept it the same way with hardware replacements because it's simple, it works, and I understand it. Before this I had an Asus EEE box, same idea.

The problem with the Boom, which seems to have snapped out of the funk it was in for about a week, was that it dropped its Wifi connection and wouldn't reconnect. I have a very solid Wifi setup (Netgear Orbi and satellite) and the wireless signal strength where it's located has always been above 90%. I was just about to buy a cheap Wifi bridge antenna (to allow an ethernet connection to the Boom) when, in giving it one last chance, it decided all was forgiven and it would connect as per normal. So for now, it's okay.

I'll keep in mind that it's repairable, that's good information too. It's used just a few times per week, it plays and operates as it did when new.

Goodsounds
2017-10-12, 16:32
I forgot to ask:


About 7.7, is it the same software with just a different name?

Is it because 7.7 was set as the minimum version for the airplay plug-in that I don't see it shown on the plug-in list in the version I have?


Thanks again.

philippe_44
2017-10-12, 18:25
I forgot to ask:


About 7.7, is it the same software with just a different name?

Is it because 7.7 was set as the minimum version for the airplay plug-in that I don't see it shown on the plug-in list in the version I have?


Thanks again.

The changes are here http://svn.slimdevices.com/repos/slim/7.7/trunk/server/Changelog7.html. It's the same software with a few updates. I don't think you'll see "big changes".

That's correct, you don't see it in the plugin list because I've set the minimum version to be 7.7

Mushroom_3
2017-10-12, 23:58
http://www.ep.ph.bham.ac.uk/poynters/mirror/linux.wav

;)

Thank you!

meep
2017-10-13, 02:03
Thank you!

except my inner efficiency nerd wishes he'd said;

'...and I pronounce Linux so.'

to avoid the redundancy. (might be a touch of ocd there)

Jeff07971
2017-11-05, 12:19
except my inner efficiency nerd wishes he'd said;

'...and I pronounce Linux so.'

to avoid the redundancy. (might be a touch of ocd there)

Yes and it is Linus (We're not worthy) Torvalds so....

Julf
2017-11-06, 01:05
Yes and it is Linus (We're not worthy) Torvalds so....

He still (at that point) had the familiar swedish-speaking-finn accent... :)

JoeMuc2009
2017-11-09, 15:22
Bit late maybe, sorry, but let me add that parts of the Squeezebox issues are still repairable which is also a good reason to stick around ;)
I don't think this gets easier with more modern devices which are apparently built to go to the landfill after warranty expiry.

buffettck
2017-11-09, 17:43
Bit late maybe, sorry, but let me add that parts of the Squeezebox issues are still repairable which is also a good reason to stick around ;)
I don't think this gets easier with more modern devices which are apparently built to go to the landfill after warranty expiry.

Doesn't really matter when the service/support is what's disappearing along with all my radio stations.

iPhone
2017-11-10, 06:43
Doesn't really matter when the service/support is what's disappearing along with all my radio stations.


Maybe I am not following you, is your complaint that favorite AM/FM Radio Stations are no longer on the air or no longer streaming? If a station streams its OTA signal, one only needs a PC, not a Squeezebox. If the Station and format is actually gone, there is an economic reason for that.

For me, I only listen to AM or FM if I don't have my own music available or access to SiriusXM Satellite. And having access to one's music and content (download pos casts to listen to on ones time not when they are aired) is rapidly replacing OTA.

buffettck
2017-11-10, 08:11
Maybe I am not following you, is your complaint that favorite AM/FM Radio Stations are no longer on the air or no longer streaming? If a station streams its OTA signal, one only needs a PC, not a Squeezebox. If the Station and format is actually gone, there is an economic reason for that.

No, the stations are still there just fine as they always have been. That is very easily verified by simply checking the station on another device. And, don't tell people what they "need or don't need". I don't "need" a PC in the places I'd easily carry around and use a portable internet radio. Besides, everything is now running along just fine on my Grace Digital Mondo+ unit. The problem was with LOGITECH, not the sources.

bigf42
2017-11-23, 13:43
My old classic gave up the ghost, fortunately it was only the Power supply, a quick hack to solder a usb cable to the oem plug, and Iím up and running again.

Then my Rasperry pi, connected to my Cambridge DAC was corrupted in a power cut, and then discovered that iOS 11 had screwed the remote, that got me into ďis it time to Jib squeeze*Ē ?

Iíd been a fairly passive user for a long time, and when I started digging I have been amazed at how much really good stuff there is in the community....

Found picore player, which will isolate me from future power failures, found shairplay, so i can use an old stereo for the kids... AirPlay bridge, so I can link in my Sky Q boxes, and A DLNA player so I can use my new friend IPeng to send HD resolution content to my blu ray player.

Keep up the good work lads and lasses

Paul_B
2017-11-24, 12:25
Catching up on the thread. Lots of words resonate with my own feelings (apart from those entering into OS wars :p ) I remember the experience of opening the packaging of my first Squeezebox 3 the attention to detail was obvious all the way through the product. I can safely say it reignited my love of music. All those CDs stuck in a corner gathering dust now ripped to a server and available to play in high quality; jumping from song to song as memories were awakened, not something you'd do with a CD player.

Maybe one of the things overlooked in the comments is the visual detail of the Squeezeboxes especially the VFD in the SB3. It exuded quality and matched the attention and choice of the audio DAC. I still think the SB3 was the best player for visual looks the simplicity and beauty of the VFD was lost with the Radio and Touch. The alternatives suggested in the thread so far have not suggested a player that matches the SB3 in terms of audio AND visual quality.

I wonder what Adam and Dean would come up with today?

d6jg
2017-11-24, 14:54
Catching up on the thread. Lots of words resonate with my own feelings (apart from those entering into OS wars :p ) I remember the experience of opening the packaging of my first Squeezebox 3 the attention to detail was obvious all the way through the product. I can safely say it reignited my love of music. All those CDs stuck in a corner gathering dust now ripped to a server and available to play in high quality; jumping from song to song as memories were awakened, not something you'd do with a CD player.

Maybe one of the things overlooked in the comments is the visual detail of the Squeezeboxes especially the VFD in the SB3. It exuded quality and matched the attention and choice of the audio DAC. I still think the SB3 was the best player for visual looks the simplicity and beauty of the VFD was lost with the Radio and Touch. The alternatives suggested in the thread so far have not suggested a player that matches the SB3 in terms of audio AND visual quality.

I wonder what Adam and Dean would come up with today?

I agree about the SB3. I bought one knowing nothing about the eco system - I also bought Pink Martiniís Sympathetique a bit later.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Vegz78
2018-01-08, 07:52
A provocative title to counter all the "I will leave the Squeezebox Community" threads.
I am really astonished how many people state in this forum that they leave the community and Switch to Sonos and other systems. I will stay with Squeezebox and actually I am buying used equipment for my friends to provide them with the best experience of music ever:
in my personal opinion, the Squeezebox experience has never been as good and as cheap as it is now...
...
...I struggle to see the reason why people leave this community - nothing has changed, all is better than ever before...
A special thanks to Michael Herger, Philippe, Erik and all the others who contribute to this community and make the Squeezebox experience better than ever...

Hear, hear!!! +1

I've never been as satisfied with my home music system as I am now with my current setup running LMS on a Max2Play* distro on a Raspberry Pi 3, and with a Squeezebox Radio and Touch in almost every room!

The Squeezebox server is always on, with:
-online streaming services, like Tidal, and my local music collection(and even my photos) on a NAS or harddrive connected to the RPi 3 easily available for playing at any time
-most of the amazing original and 3rd party, old and new(still new ones under development) plugins working flawlessly
-other 24/7 services running on and available from the same RPi 3, like DNS-rerouting, VPN-server, shared folders, web servers, Motion streaming WiFi cameras, home automation etc.
-the server barely consuming any power, and only spinning up my NAS when I'm actually playing local music or cranking up my PC media server when I need to do heavy lifting like video transcoding or the Inguz EQ pluging or the like
-The RPi 3 now and then doubles as RetroPie for playing old emulator games, Linux remote or local desktop, and can be used as a HiFi local Squeezebox player with HiFiBerry, or even a fully fledged media player and the like
-In addition to music in most of my rooms, I have small screens displaying time, weather or random images from my private photo collection using the built in Image Viewer app and gruvi (http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?108498-Announce-GRUVI-generate-random-URLs_for-viewing-images)

I really hope that Tidal and other online streaming and radio services will continue to be supported in the future, even with changes in their APIs or regardless of what happens to mysqueezebox.com! The same with amazing other frequently used plugins and services like music and artist information, shairtunes, song lyrics, RSS-feeds and podcasts etc.!

For the future I really hope this community stays alive and keeps growing! More specifically, I'm hoping that factory made and complete quality players like the Radio and Touch are made commercially available again, and on my top wish list at the moment would be the return of the amazing functionality of the defunct Smart Mix plugin** for both local and online music sources, and an easily set up weather/time app based on yr.no.


Again, a special thanks to the primus motors on the Squeezebox community forum who keeps both the best audio community and the best music server/player ecosystem ever still alive and kicking!!


Vegz78


* I'm not starting a fanboy war here, the piCorePlayer, Vortexbox or other server/player distros and solutions are probably just as good.
** The LastMix plugin is good and used every day, but IMO sadly not quite as good as the Smart Mix was, Michael... ;-)

philippe_44
2018-01-09, 00:48
I have to say that now that I've invested time to develop plugins, I'm amazed by the extension capabilities of LMS. It's really a shame that the line was discontinued. I don't think any other solution is barely as good as it. I like my Sonos speakers but I mostly use them through LMS now. At a point that I'm thinking of upgrading my plugin to manage Sonos grouping from the LMS UI directly. If I can find a way to do that with CC as well, il will do it for both - just for now CC do not publish how to create groups

Vegz78
2018-01-16, 19:42
At a point that I'm thinking of upgrading my plugin to manage Sonos grouping from the LMS UI directly.

Any closer to getting sync working between Squeezeboxes and Sonos players, or UPnP players in general?

If so, it would be an even greater gift to the ecosystem and community!

Keep up and thank you for all your great work and contributions!

Vegard

thomashenrydavies
2018-01-17, 04:48
£350 for a Sonos Connect vs £35 for an RiPi with Squeezebox.

No contest! Plus, the system does more (even if Sonos is good in some ways).

Redrum
2018-01-17, 06:37
+1 Great Thread. I echo the thanks not only to the many contributors of their time and expertise, but to the entire community, because, if were not for this family, support could have dwindled.

My story. Despite the "junior member" (low number of posts, I'm more of a reader), I have put my years in, and my addiction has grown. I have owned, and loved audio gear and music since the mid seventies. LPs, a shot stint of 8-tracks, cassettes, then CD's. In 2009 I bought my first duet for the sole purpose of ripping my collection and ease of playback from my library. Pretty narrow objective as I found out...

..Then I discovered internet radio, including Radio Paradise, Pear, Fuzzy and Groovy, and many more....wow....it's probably 75% of my listening now.

...Then I started thinking of multi room capabilities, and that grew. I now have 5 receivers, 2 controllers, and of course an android app....

...I was intrigued by a touch for convenience and the audio improvement, I now have one of those in my main listening room....

...I retired a couple years ago (well, my company decided to buy my retirement :rolleyes:) and I bought a run down cabin/camp on a small lake in the woods in Northern New York to renovate. DSL was available (yes!). I didn't want a stack of gear ("roughing it"), so I bought my first boom, pretty beat up and "sticky". Wow, what a wonderful product and perfect for the setting. I then found a nicer Boom, bought that, and relegated the sticky boom to the garage/workshop at the camp. I can have something like Radio Paradise or Pearadio playing and my friends will say "where did you find this station!!!??? It's awesome!". Of course, they are used to FM stations.

...Back at home, I have always listened to squeezeplay while in the office. I realized I didn't have a Squeezebox Radio, so I thought I would try one, found one, bought it. What an excellent product for the desktop usage pattern. A hybrid of the radio UI and the boom audio would be a neat product. I can dream...

so, that's 5 receivers, 2 controllers, one touch, radio in one house, and 2 booms at the camp. Sound like I have an addiction? If so it's a fun one.

Only one Duet and one receiver bought through retail channels, the rest on the secondary market (ebay).

Not once have I ever thought of changing platforms, but I do pray that the hardware will stand up for many more years...

Again, thanks to all and long live the squeeze!

Jim

earthbased
2018-01-18, 10:42
Yes to all of the above. ;) At the same time, I see the market a little differently. So I live in Chicago and have good relations with two high end audio consultants here called "Decibel" and "Audio Consultants" I too am frustrated with companies like Sonos and Apple and Spotify as they I feel are complicit with it being ok to listen to crappy quality music. Decibel is expanding it's services and Audio Consultant is consolidating. I don't think it's a coincidence that a short time after the move from CD's to digital music streaming, there's been an upsurge in vinyl. Even in crappy home systems, the vinyl sounds better. At the same time, much of the move also has to do with the listening experience -- reading a seeing the music and the artist. And people including me want convenience. The debate about the difference between the purist listener who doesn't care about metadata versus the convenience of digital media streaming is crap. It's the wrong debate to be having because it puts us at odds over the entire music experience. There is no one right way or wrong way to listen to music. We need to stop fighting about our turf and understand that the entire music experience is important: music source quality, ease of use, ease of access, how you listen to music, metadata, and how it sounds. And we have the technology to bring it all together. I spent a ton of time, effort and money to insure that my music sounds excellent within excess dollars. Everyone loves the sound of my place. At the same time, everyone loves the klarita Muso "Now Playing" screen that they see while listening to music.

If we want LMS to be around for a while, we gotta address this as a community and put away our 'elitist' turf wars. Companies like BlueSound and Roonlabs will be eating LMS's lunch in two - five years if we don't.

The world is collapsing. All the insiders are panicking and trying to corner customers to extract maximum revenue. Inflation numbers are a lie. Subscription cars? Panic!

Fahzz
2018-01-23, 13:03
Here's a nice pre-built option. Once piCorePlayer has been written to the SD card, this is a "plug-and-play" Squeezebox. At $275 shipped it's twice the price of doing it yourself, but you get a nice case with power button and what appear to be quality parts:
AUDIOPHONICS RASPDAC LTE I-SABRE V3 - STREAMER RASPBERRY PI & DAC TCXO (https://www.audiophonics.fr/en/raspdac-rasptouch/audiophonics-raspdac-lte-es9023-sabre-tcxo-network-player-raspberry-pi-3-p-11991.html)


Is a separate server still required to use these devices, or can I just connect an external hard drive to it and play the tracks? Can it be controlled with iPeng or Harmony remote? I'm interested in something like this to replace my SB3. Bluesound Node 2 didn't cut it for me, and I'm returning it. Thanks.

Tex
2018-01-23, 14:18
I bought mine at

https://www.hifiberry.com/shop/bundles/hifiberry-digi-bundle/

then installed piCoreplayer on the card and was up & running in no time. Definitely the way to go. piCoreplayer has LMS install as an option. Max2Play is good too.

Apesbrain
2018-01-23, 15:18
Is a separate server still required to use these devices, or can I just connect an external hard drive to it and play the tracks? Can it be controlled with iPeng or Harmony remote? I'm interested in something like this to replace my SB3. Bluesound Node 2 didn't cut it for me, and I'm returning it. Thanks.
As said above, the Raspberry Pi can be configured to be both a player and a server; just attach your external drive with music. I'd recommend an external drive that has its own power supply. The RPi can be controlled in the same ways as any other Squeezebox device. The base RPi3 has on-board wireless and can output digital on either USB or HDMI. If you want coax/optical S/PDIF or quality analog out, you need an add-on board (HiFiBerry, Allo, or others). If your SB3 is still working, not sure what you gain though.

Fahzz
2018-01-23, 19:11
Thanks for the response.

Not sure if my SB3 still works. It went down two days before Christmas, maybe due to a Windows 10 update, maybe something else. I didn't have the time or the will to troubleshoot it.

I always wanted to get away from a separate server for a lot of reasons (updates being one)and I thought the Node 2 might do that, but when I got it, I found out that the direct USB function was limited, and they suggested that I connect the drive to my router instead. That also was problematic, and Bluesound support is only available when I'm working. Again time and will ran out. It's expensive, but I would have kept the Node if it worked out of the box, but it didn't.

I know that patience can be eventually rewarded by Squeezeboxen, so I may try and get the SB3 back on line, or buy something preassembled, or go the DIY route. Not sure yet.

philippe_44
2018-01-23, 20:27
Any closer to getting sync working between Squeezeboxes and Sonos players, or UPnP players in general?

If so, it would be an even greater gift to the ecosystem and community!

Keep up and thank you for all your great work and contributions!

Vegard

No, UPnP will never work (it can't) and Sonos are totally secretive about their protocol, so no chance there