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View Full Version : Synching issues in move from LMS 7.8 to 7.9



donmacn
2016-10-29, 05:51
Hi folks,
As the title says, I've just moved from an old Vortexbox running 7.8, to a new Nova/VB running 7.9. Nothing else has changed - the players are all in the same places, etc etc.

Previously I had no issues routinely synching up to 5 or 6 players (three Touch; 2 Boom; perhaps one or two SB3). They are always pointed at LMS, not at MSB.com. They would stream synched from web radio or from my local music. This was the case 'for ever' - several years. They're still indicating good network strength - 89/93%.

Now, I'm having synch issues - either with web sources (radio/spotify) or local music. I'm pretty sure I never had to change any of the synching parameters in 7.8 - at least I don't remember doing so - hence I can't remember what the settings might have been.

Can anyone suggest what parameters might have changed in the 7.8 to 7.9 developments, or where I might look?

At the moment, the synching parameters are all standard - Minimum Synch Adjustment is at 10; Network Packet latency is as 2.

As always, any advice and assistance gratefully received.

Thanks

Donald

donmacn
2016-10-29, 07:24
A small update, for what it might be worth...

I ran Radio Paradise (internet radio) for quite a while - synced through the three or four players - there was no problem with that.

I then switched to local FLAC files and this is the pattern - plays for about 12-15secs; stops for ca. 20 secs; plays again for 12-15 secs...... etc etc. I did wonder if there might be something with the files that were transferred en masse when the new Server was being built up, so I ripped a new CD - same issue there - plays 10, rebuffers, plays 10, rebuffers...

I have now just set one of the Touches to play a local FLAC file all by itself - it does so with no problems at all. It just seems to be the synching that's the issue.

So, this suggests to me there's a problem somewhere with the system handling the larger FLAC files, as opposed to the Radio Paradise stream. As I've said above, same router, same player locations... It used to handle FLAC files just fine - no trouble at all. Of course it could be that the router has decided to play up and it's a complete coincidence that it's happened at exactly the same time as I've changed my LMS box and server, but I don't believe that's the case. For the 12-15 secs it's playing it's OK!

This seems to me like a buffering/synch problem, and I assume (hope) there's a setting somewhere that I need to adjust - but I don't know where to start.

I tried looking for any server log files which might help diagnose this - but I can't find anything that looks relevant.

Thanks

Donald

Mnyb
2016-10-30, 03:21
It cold just be a coincidence .

It's Michael that really knows what's going into the development, but an important old core feature like sync ? Any direct changes there ? I would be surprised .

How ever you could try some things . Try smaller sync groups if one player has problems it wrecks the whole group , try to find if the issue is conected to any particular player .

An obvious starter is to sync only the wired players , a wifi or network issue could also cause this .

Regarding the sync parameters , well they are there for you to experiment with try one at the time to see if they do something once you found out if one the players is acting up .

d6jg
2016-10-30, 05:26
I moved from a VB with 7.8 to another with 7.9 fairly recently. No sync issues.
From what you describe I'd say networking issue somewhere. If you have wireless players synced with wired ones and they display the symptoms I would immediately look at the wireless part of your network first.

DJanGo
2016-10-30, 08:17
As always, any advice and assistance gratefully received.

Hi,

a "upgrade" is sometimes not a good idea.

Please make a screenshoot from your Plugins - delete all your Plugins and start from scratch.

"old" plugins where updated all the time when a newer Version is there.
But "old" plugins that are not supported anymore - may causing a busy system.
These were not deleted when you upgrade from an "very old" system.

donmacn
2016-11-19, 07:20
Thanks for the replies - apologies for the slow response myself, I've been working away.

This "could be a coincidence" certainly. It's just that it follows months and months, if not years of trouble-free synching. The only thing that's changed is the new server and appliance. Obviously that's a major change.

I actually don't have any wired players in the set-up. All wireless at the moment, and as I say, they've been wireless for a long time previously.

The files are the same - transferred from the old vortexbox by the new appliance supplier - so there should be no change in the amount of data being transferred.

So, there are a few constants:
The players are the same, and in the same locations, connected to the same network;
the router is the same, same location etc.
the files (FLAC) are the same.

However:
LMS is different, and is located on a new 'Nova' appliance.
Where I used to be able synch up to 5 players, I now sometimes struggle with 2. I have tried different combinations without getting any improved results.

It does seem to me that the only way I'll get to the bottom of this is to throw some money at it (a new VDSL router 150) or a network switch and a bunch of long 10-15 metre network cables...

Anything else I could look at before going down that road??

Ta

D

donmacn
2016-11-19, 07:23
Hi,

Please make a screenshoot from your Plugins - delete all your Plugins and start from scratch.

"old" plugins where updated all the time when a newer Version is there.
But "old" plugins that are not supported anymore - may causing a busy system.
These were not deleted when you upgrade from an "very old" system.

The upgrade was from 7.8.x to 7.9.0 - but it's a completely new build, on a commercially supplied new appliance, so there will be a bunch of plugins enabled that I've never had before.

Many seem enabled by default. Is there a list of 'hard core' or essential plugins, then I could disable the rest?

Ta

cparker
2016-11-19, 17:22
The upgrade was from 7.8.x to 7.9.0 - but it's a completely new build, on a commercially supplied new appliance, so there will be a bunch of plugins enabled that I've never had before.

Many seem enabled by default. Is there a list of 'hard core' or essential plugins, then I could disable the rest?

Ta

Not being flippant but they are called plugins :) so none are essential for core functionality, you can disable all of them.

Sync issues are nearly always poor wifi related. Any sync'ed player with a Wireless Signal Strength under 50% will likely start to cause an issue, check the information page on LMS and try to get them into the 70% as a minimum.

toby10
2016-11-20, 03:03
Switch all players to MySB.com (no LMS) temporarily, see if Sync issue remains. If YES then you likely have a network/WiFi issue. If NO then it's likely an LMS/host computer issue.

Fizbin
2016-11-21, 16:35
I suggest going back to 7.8 and see what happens. If you still have sync issues then you can at least rule out 7.9 as the culprit.

d6jg
2016-11-22, 04:57
You say only the server has changed but do you know whether or not your neighbours have installed a new router ? Or have you got any new wireless devices e.g. TV sticks, tablets, phones etc ? It only takes a tiny bit of intereference to cause havoc to synced wireless players.

It is highly unlikely to be the new appliance unless perhaps it has a wireless card that isn't properly disabled.

Rather than drop back to 7.8 why not try wiring a couple of players temporarily and trying the sync.

My money is firmly on it being a wi-fi issue. It almost always is with these symptoms.

donmacn
2016-11-26, 12:17
.... and the culprit was indeed 'wifi issues'.

I think one of the Touch players isn't getting the best wifi signal. I had time to play with it today, so I connected it via powerline ethernet, and I had six players successfully streaming FLAC files all day.

I still don't really understand why this should be a problem now, when it wasn't before, but as long as its working....

I'll have time over the christmas break to put a network switch in and hard-wire four or five of the players currently relying on wifi.

Thanks very much as always for the replies and suggestions.

D

Mnyb
2016-11-26, 23:10
Thats the thing with wi-fi it's like the weather , you don't have to do anything for it to change...

Something interferes anything from neigbours wi-fi to microvawe ovens to baby monitors .

Mnyb
2016-11-26, 23:16
And inccreased smartphone and tablett usage can infringe on bandwith :)