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mandryka
2016-10-12, 11:49
Hello

I want to change to my system to make it faster to load the LMS after a restart. At the moment it can take as long as half an hour, sometimes faster, rarely slower. What would be the most effective changes I could make?

The server runs on a Lenovo desktop running Windows 10. The processor is an AMD E350, 2 core, 4Gb RAM.

The music is stored on a Samsung external hard drive, there are 88,000 tracks, mostly FLAC files, about 2.5TB.

Howard

DJanGo
2016-10-12, 12:51
youll need to add some more inforamtion about your system.
eg. what needs that long to start the system?

mherger
2016-10-12, 12:52
> I want to change to my system to make it faster to load the LMS after a
> restart. At the moment it can take as long as half an hour, sometimes
> faster, rarely slower. What would be the most effective changes I could
> make?

Try to figure out what is slowing it down before taking any action :-).

Did you check the server.log for obvious errors or the like? Did you
check task manager to see what the process is doing all this time? Is it
CPU bound? I/O?

> The server runs on a Lenovo desktop running Windows 10. The processor is
> an AMD E350, 2 core, 4Gb RAM.

No race horse. But did you up the memory usage in
Settings/Advanced/Performance. Go to the max.

> The music is stored on a Samsung external hard drive, there are 88,000
> tracks, mostly FLAC files, about 2.5TB.

How is this disk connected? USB2? USB3? eSATA?

Where does your cache live?

--

Michael

Fizbin
2016-10-12, 15:15
Your PC is a dinosaur. Except for increasing RAM, there isn't much you can do to speed it up. I suggest saving your pennies for an Intel i7...or at least an i5. And make sure it has a minimum 8GB Ram. You can barely run Windows on 4GB.

d6jg
2016-10-12, 15:38
Probably a perfectly good system for Vortexbox ! But I suspect the external HD is one of the issues. USB 1.0.

Mnyb
2016-10-13, 01:34
What kind of plugins ? Even dinosaur hardware runs in a couple of minutes IME ?

But maybe not with some versions of Erlands plugins , they do some database stuff that takes time .
Some of,his plugins are known to drag out startup .

Run the server without plugins and then add them one at the time and make observations

Why win10 on that kind of machine ? it would probably speed up considerably on some Linux distributions ?
Linux can usually repurpose older hardware that's not fit for the lates win .

d6jg
2016-10-13, 03:07
What kind of plugins ? Even dinosaur hardware runs in a couple of minutes IME ?

But maybe not with some versions of Erlands plugins , they do some database stuff that takes time .
Some of,his plugins are known to drag out startup .

Run the server without plugins and then add them one at the time and make observations

Why win10 on that kind of machine ? it would probably speed up considerably on some Linux distributions ?
Linux can usually repurpose older hardware that's not fit for the lates win .

Vortexbox distro would be perfect for it.

mandryka
2016-10-13, 11:42
Thanks for all these replies, it's going to have to wait till the weekend before I can experiment with some of the suggestions. I think it may be time to buy a new PC, but I'm not sure that will speed up startup. I want to stay with Windows.


But I suspect the external HD is one of the issues. USB 1.0.

Yes, I was thinking that too. What can I do about it apart from getting a PC with 3TB internal hard drive?

mherger
2016-10-13, 11:50
>> Probably a perfectly good system for Vortexbox ! But I suspect the
>> external HD is one of the issues. USB 1.0.
>
> What can I do about that apart from getting a PC with 3TB hard drive?

Figure out what the real bottleneck is. USB _might_ be one. But if the
cache is stored on the main disk, then I don't see why it would. So go
back to my first response and go through all of the questions.

--

Michael

mandryka
2016-10-13, 12:10
>> Probably a perfectly good system for Vortexbox ! But I suspect the
>> external HD is one of the issues. USB 1.0.
>
> What can I do about that apart from getting a PC with 3TB hard drive?

Figure out what the real bottleneck is. USB _might_ be one. But if the
cache is stored on the main disk, then I don't see why it would. So go
back to my first response and go through all of the questions.

--

Michael

Sunday!

reinholdk
2016-10-13, 14:45
You can check for CPU and I/O issues with perfmon.exe, for example.


I suggest saving your pennies for an Intel i7...or at least an i5. And make sure it has a minimum 8GB Ram. You can barely run Windows on 4GB.
Running Windows on 4GB is not a problem per se. Depends on the tasks you want to perform with it. For LMS or typical home office tasks you don't need an i5 or even an i7. I'm running Win10 on an old first-generation i3 without any issues (Edit: using 4GB).

Fizbin
2016-10-13, 16:50
I'm aware of that. I ran LMS on a super slow Dual Pentium just fine, but even that had 8GB. I can't imagine what that PC would have been like on 4. If the OP wants a faster LMS, I think a faster PC would be the first (and easiest) approach. LMS on my i5 is faster...not a by a mile but it's faster.

One other suggestion I can make to the OP... Run Malwarebytes and then delete all the bloatware on your PC. (Go to add/remove and kill anything you're not using...don't touch anything that says Intel or Microsoft) Check your task manager and do a google search for each task that is running to see if it should be running. Also make sure you have lots of headroom on your HD. Oh yeah, and increase the RAM.

mherger
2016-10-13, 21:41
> I'm aware of that. I ran LMS on a super slow Dual Pentium just fine, but
> even that had 8GB. I can't imagine what that PC would have been like on
> 4. If the OP wants a faster LMS, I think a faster PC would be the first
> approach.

Just for the records: I'm running my LMS on a 4 years old Atom based
system with 4GB of memory. But using Linux. And that's running perfectly
fine. Takes 5-10 seconds to start.

Double digit minute numbers are wrong, no matter what the hardware or
OS. But only some analysis of where it's stalling will tell us what it is.

--

Michael

Fizbin
2016-10-14, 04:12
If the OP had Linux I wouldn't have recommended any upgrades.

sto
2016-10-14, 05:07
I have this processor and I can boot from cold to playing music in 30 seconds. Running Ubuntu though...

mandryka
2016-10-15, 12:17
> I want to change to my system to make it faster to load the LMS after a
> restart. At the moment it can take as long as half an hour, sometimes
> faster, rarely slower. What would be the most effective changes I could
> make?

Try to figure out what is slowing it down before taking any action :-).

Did you check the server.log for obvious errors or the like? Did you
check task manager to see what the process is doing all this time? Is it
CPU bound? I/O?

> The server runs on a Lenovo desktop running Windows 10. The processor is
> an AMD E350, 2 core, 4Gb RAM.

No race horse. But did you up the memory usage in
Settings/Advanced/Performance. Go to the max.

> The music is stored on a Samsung external hard drive, there are 88,000
> tracks, mostly FLAC files, about 2.5TB.

How is this disk connected? USB2? USB3? eSATA?

Where does your cache live?

--

Michael


The last time I restarted it took 15 minutes for the server to fire up.

Here's the server log entries



[16-10-15 19:40:41.0099] Plugins::Spotify::Spotifyd::_checkAlive (146) spotifyd has failed restarting
[16-10-15 19:45:29.0807] main::init (384) Starting Logitech Media Server (v7.9.0, 1473501469, Sat Sep 17 04:05:47 CUT 2016) perl 5.014001 - MSWin32-x86-multi-thread
[16-10-15 19:45:49.6300] Plugins::Qobuz::Plugin::__ANON__ (46) Success: using Text::LevenshteinXS to speed Qobuz up.
[16-10-15 19:57:11.4402] Slim::Networking::SqueezeNetwork::Players::_player s_error (359) Unable to get players from SN: Connect timed out: Bad file descriptor, retrying in 60 seconds


The task manager said that the server was using 0 and 3% CPU, 150 MB memory, 0.6 Mb disk; the control panel was using 50 Mb memory, between 0 and 1% of CPU

The cache is stored on the internal hard drive (C:\ProgramData\Squeezebox\Cache)

What should I set the memory usage to? It's set at 6000-6500 Mb

Oh and by the way, thanks to everyone for all this help! It's heartening to read that the other people don't suffer from the same problem, so there should be a way of sorting it out.

reinholdk
2016-10-15, 12:27
What should I set the memory usage to? It's set at 6000-6500 Mb

Michael spoke about LMS memory. Set "Database Memory Config" in LMS' WebUI->Settings->Advanced->Performance to Maximum.

reinholdk
2016-10-15, 12:30
The task manager said that the server was using 0 and 3% CPU, 150 MB memory, 0.6 Mb disk; the control panel was using 50 Mb memory, between 0 and 1% of CPU

Nothing else that needs lot of CPU or I/O?

DJanGo
2016-10-15, 14:11
The last time I restarted it took 15 minutes for the server to fire up.


what is running in your autostart and services?
dhcp or static ip? use static

power off your lms server
get another system and ping your lms with parameter -t
get a smartphone with some timer app
start the lms server and start the timer
stop the timer when there is a answer
tell us that time

alverus
2016-10-16, 01:44
I'm aware of that. I ran LMS on a super slow Dual Pentium just fine, but even that had 8GB. I can't imagine what that PC would have been like on 4. If the OP wants a faster LMS, I think a faster PC would be the first (and easiest) approach. LMS on my i5 is faster...not a by a mile but it's faster.

One other suggestion I can make to the OP... Run Malwarebytes and then delete all the bloatware on your PC. (Go to add/remove and kill anything you're not using...don't touch anything that says Intel or Microsoft) Check your task manager and do a google search for each task that is running to see if it should be running. Also make sure you have lots of headroom on your HD. Oh yeah, and increase the RAM.

I don't understand how people could write something like that. At the first point, one of the biggest advantages of win8 was the mach lesser RAM-consumtion. Win10 runs smoove on my Atom-tablet with just 2 GB RAM.

mandryka
2016-10-16, 01:55
Michael spoke about LMS memory. Set "Database Memory Config" in LMS' WebUI->Settings->Advanced->Performance to Maximum.

Ah thanks, on the basis of one restart that's got it down a bit -- it took 5 minutes.

d6jg
2016-10-16, 01:55
I don't understand how people could write something like that. At the first point, one of the biggest advantages of win8 was the mach lesser RAM-consumtion. Win10 runs smoove on my Atom-tablet with just 2 GB RAM.

The Atom tablet has an SSD HD I suspect. Makes a big difference.

mandryka
2016-10-16, 01:56
Nothing else that needs lot of CPU or I/O?


No, I don't think so.

mandryka
2016-10-16, 01:57
what is running in your autostart and services?
dhcp or static ip? use static

power off your lms server
get another system and ping your lms with parameter -t
get a smartphone with some timer app
start the lms server and start the timer
stop the timer when there is a answer
tell us that time

The problem I have is I don't have another system, I only have tablets and phones.

mandryka
2016-10-16, 01:58
I forgot to mention that if I wake it from sleep, the server loads up in seconds. The problem only happens with a restart.

Mnyb
2016-10-16, 02:03
I forgot to mention that if I wake it from sleep, the server loads up in seconds. The problem only happens with a restart.

Did you try without most of the plugins ?

Fizbin
2016-10-16, 02:32
I don't understand how people could write something like that. At the first point, one of the biggest advantages of win8 was the mach lesser RAM-consumtion. Win10 runs smoove on my Atom-tablet with just 2 GB RAM.

Everyone has their own preferences in terms of usability and stability. I was chatting with a group of guys in IT not long ago who were shocked that I was running "only" 8GB RAM.

mherger
2016-10-16, 05:28
> The last time I restarted it took 15 minutes for the server to fire up.

Ok, now you probably have to define what you consider "fire up". When
does this process start, and when do you consider it done?

>> [16-10-15 19:40:41.0099] Plugins::Spotify::Spotifyd::_checkAlive (146)
>> spotifyd has failed restarting

19:40 - last entry of the previous run.

>> [16-10-15 19:45:29.0807] main::init (384) Starting Logitech Media Server
>> (v7.9.0, 1473501469, Sat Sep 17 04:05:47 CUT 2016) perl 5.014001 -
>> MSWin32-x86-multi-thread

19:45 - five minutes later it seems to be back up and running.

>> [16-10-15 19:45:49.6300] Plugins::Qobuz::Plugin::__ANON__ (46) Success:
>> using Text::LevenshteinXS to speed Qobuz up.
>> [16-10-15 19:57:11.4402]
>> Slim::Networking::SqueezeNetwork::Players::_player s_error (359) Unable
>> to get players from SN: Connect timed out: Bad file descriptor, retrying
>> in 60 seconds

19:57 - another 12 minutes later there are networking related issues
reported. But between the previous event and this is nothing. What
exactly did you time?

> The cache is stored on the internal hard drive
> (C:\ProgramData\Squeezebox\Cache)

How much is left on that drive?

--

Michael

mandryka
2016-10-16, 06:00
> The last time I restarted it took 15 minutes for the server to fire up.

Ok, now you probably have to define what you consider "fire up". When
does this process start, and when do you consider it done?

>> [16-10-15 19:40:41.0099] Plugins::Spotify::Spotifyd::_checkAlive (146)
>> spotifyd has failed restarting

19:40 - last entry of the previous run.

>> [16-10-15 19:45:29.0807] main::init (384) Starting Logitech Media Server
>> (v7.9.0, 1473501469, Sat Sep 17 04:05:47 CUT 2016) perl 5.014001 -
>> MSWin32-x86-multi-thread

19:45 - five minutes later it seems to be back up and running.

>> [16-10-15 19:45:49.6300] Plugins::Qobuz::Plugin::__ANON__ (46) Success:
>> using Text::LevenshteinXS to speed Qobuz up.
>> [16-10-15 19:57:11.4402]
>> Slim::Networking::SqueezeNetwork::Players::_player s_error (359) Unable
>> to get players from SN: Connect timed out: Bad file descriptor, retrying
>> in 60 seconds

19:57 - another 12 minutes later there are networking related issues
reported. But between the previous event and this is nothing. What
exactly did you time?

> The cache is stored on the internal hard drive
> (C:\ProgramData\Squeezebox\Cache)

How much is left on that drive?

--

Michael

298 Gb

mandryka
2016-10-16, 06:00
Did you try without most of the plugins ?

I have done now, and it's now down to about 30 seconds. Thank you gentlemen!

Mnyb
2016-10-16, 19:58
I have done now, and it's now down to about 30 seconds. Thank you gentlemen!

You can add them back back one by one and find the culprit . My guess is that there one or two plugins not behaving very well , it may depend on settings within those plugins too .

mandryka
2016-10-16, 23:47
> The last time I restarted it took 15 minutes for the server to fire up.

Ok, now you probably have to define what you consider "fire up". When
does this process start, and when do you consider it done?

>> [16-10-15 19:40:41.0099] Plugins::Spotify::Spotifyd::_checkAlive (146)
>> spotifyd has failed restarting

19:40 - last entry of the previous run.

>> [16-10-15 19:45:29.0807] main::init (384) Starting Logitech Media Server
>> (v7.9.0, 1473501469, Sat Sep 17 04:05:47 CUT 2016) perl 5.014001 -
>> MSWin32-x86-multi-thread

19:45 - five minutes later it seems to be back up and running.

>> [16-10-15 19:45:49.6300] Plugins::Qobuz::Plugin::__ANON__ (46) Success:
>> using Text::LevenshteinXS to speed Qobuz up.
>> [16-10-15 19:57:11.4402]
>> Slim::Networking::SqueezeNetwork::Players::_player s_error (359) Unable
>> to get players from SN: Connect timed out: Bad file descriptor, retrying
>> in 60 seconds

19:57 - another 12 minutes later there are networking related issues
reported. But between the previous event and this is nothing. What
exactly did you time?

> The cache is stored on the internal hard drive
> (C:\ProgramData\Squeezebox\Cache)

How much is left on that drive?

--

Michael

I just saw your question, what I was timing was from the point at which windows started to the point at which LMS responded, that's to say http://127.0.0.1:9000/ loaded, and my squeezebox came alive.

Another restart after the one which took less than a minute took about 4 minutes, strangely.

mherger
2016-10-17, 06:57
> I just saw your question, what I was timing was from the point at which
> windows started to the point at which LMS responded, that's to say
> http://127.0.0.1:9000/ loaded, and my squeezebox came alive.

And how did you figure it it was LMS taking that long, and not some
other component of your system?

--

Michael

mherger
2016-10-24, 00:04
> How do I find out? I just restarted it and it took more than 10
> minutes, from 19,36 to 19,49 here's the server log
>
>> [16-10-21 19:36:42.2958] main::init (384) Starting Logitech Media Server
>> (v7.9.0, 1473501469, Sat Sep 17 04:05:47 CUT 2016) perl 5.014001 -
>> MSWin32-x86-multi-thread
>> [16-10-21 19:49:32.5465] Slim::Formats::XML::gotErrorViaHTTP (310)
>> Error: getting http://www.mysqueezebox.com/api/sounds/v1/opml
>> Connect timed out: Bad file descriptor

But that's just 10+ minutes between the initial message and the first
error message. It doesn't tell you how long it took to start up. Those
errors could show up days after the start only.

--

Michael

Wirrunna
2016-10-24, 21:33
Are Library statistics disabled? Settings / Advanced / Performance - Library Statistics.