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lightning888
2016-09-11, 01:31
LMS 7.9
When I use LMS or iPeng to play random songs, some tracks are playing beyond the track's length, eg, a FLAC of 4 mins were played till 4:30 mins and then bounced back to 4 mins, as such, the jammed track cannot advance to the next track, and it goes into an endless loop. Anyone has such experiences and solutions?

lightning888
2016-09-11, 01:59
I wanted to add that in LMS interface the playing showed "0:00" time left for the song, but it doesn't advance to the next song. Whereas in iPeng it played beyond the file's actual length and showed 4:30 when it's supposed to finish at 4:00.

Appreciate feedback from this community. Than you.

DJanGo
2016-09-11, 04:12
LMS 7.9
When I use LMS or iPeng to play random songs, some tracks are playing beyond the track's length, eg, a FLAC of 4 mins were played till 4:30 mins and then bounced back to 4 mins, as such, the jammed track cannot advance to the next track, and it goes into an endless loop. Anyone has such experiences and solutions?

check the files bitrate and tags
try the same with a wav file converted from one of these flac files.

pippin
2016-09-11, 04:31
What's the build date of the LMS 7.9 version you use (you can find that on Settings->Information)?
Do you use "Don't stop the music" or something like that?

What Squeezebox model are you playing on and indeed, what sample rate do the files have? Standard 44.1/16 CD-quality files?

lightning888
2016-09-11, 04:55
What's the build date of the LMS 7.9 version you use (you can find that on Settings->Information)?
Do you use "Don't stop the music" or something like that?

What Squeezebox model are you playing on and indeed, what sample rate do the files have? Standard 44.1/16 CD-quality files?

Logitech Media Server Version: 7.9.0 - 1453293926 @ Thu Jan 21 04:09:26 UTC 2016

No I don't use DSTM, don't even show up on my home.

It was probably a Squeezebox 3, yes should be 44/16, it says 831 VBR if that helps.

pippin
2016-09-11, 04:56
Please update to a recent build of LMS

lightning888
2016-09-11, 04:59
check the files bitrate and tags
try the same with a wav file converted from one of these flac files.

I seriously doubt your suggestions work, as it was a FLAC file, even if I convert to a WAV file it won't make a difference. It'll play and advance to the next track, coz when I rewind the same track, it'll advance to the next track.

pippin
2016-09-11, 08:48
I agree, the server would convert it back to FLAC anyway. With some FLAC files there are issues with the compression used but that would typically rather mean playback breaks off.

Your LMS version is old, the first thing to do should be to try to update it.

lightning888
2016-09-11, 16:45
check the files bitrate and tags
try the same with a wav file converted from one of these flac files.


Please update to a recent build of LMS

This was the latest version. Running it on a Synology NAS.

pippin
2016-09-12, 05:30
I was afraid that was the case. That's an outdated 7.9 beta build known to have issues, maybe you can get a 7.8. version unless you need the new 7.9 features.
There are threads here in the forum about how to update to a new build on Synology

pinkdot
2016-09-13, 00:37
@lightning888 You can use my Lmsupdate package to update your current installation to a more recent date. See signature for the thread.

Greetings,

Martin

lightning888
2016-09-15, 03:10
@lightning888 You can use my Lmsupdate package to update your current installation to a more recent date. See signature for the thread.

Greetings,

Martin

I just updated to Logitech® Media Server v7.9.0-161.1096, unfortunately the problem still persists... still "playing beyond tracks". Ouch!

Anyone has any clue?

pinkdot
2016-09-15, 03:14
@lightning888 Could you please share a FLAC file and a procedure to reproduce this issue. Thx.

Verstuurd vanaf mijn XT1524 met Tapatalk

slartibartfast
2016-09-15, 05:29
I just updated to Logitech® Media Server v7.9.0-161.1096, unfortunately the problem still persists... still "playing beyond tracks". Ouch!

Anyone has any clue?
The annoying thing is I have seen this in my system quite a while ago but I now have absolutely no idea how I fixed it. What are your crossfade settings?

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

pippin
2016-09-15, 05:50
I just updated to Logitech[emoji768] Media Server v7.9.0-161.1096, unfortunately the problem still persists... still "playing beyond tracks". Ouch!

Anyone has any clue?

What date does that build have on "Settings->Information"?

pinkdot
2016-09-15, 07:07
That build is from end of July. Are there any commits after that date that might fixed this issue?

Greetings,

Martin

dbm204
2016-09-15, 07:23
(sorry for the long post)

From what I can recall, this started about a year ago. I have been using 7.9 since shortly after it was released. I can't remember whether it also occurred under 7.8 at the time but I don't think so. Since some changes are made in the 7.7,7.8 versions and then merged into 7.9 I can't say where it started or whether it is now limited to 7.9.

However, lightning888 said in an earlier post that this occurred with an SB3. For me, it is a transporter. So it may be an ipv3 issue (is that what the original architecture is called?). I never see it when I listen through my computer using squeezelite.

Here is what I usually see (I freely admit this scenario may be just a coincidence). Would others who have seen the problem please confirm if they also see this behaviour. This happens with any FLAC file. I don't play much mp3 so I can't be absolutely sure but I don't think it is file or tag related.

While playing, the screen flashes "cannot find server ... " and then immediately switches back to the song title. This can happen repeatedly and often. The issue where LMS loses track of which song it is on occurs when the "cannot find server" flashes near the end of a song, presumably when LMS is preparing for the next song. The next song will come on but LMS on the device and on the webpage (as well as tablet apps) all show the previous song.

As I said, the "cannot find server" always flashes for only an instant like it loses sight of the server for just a moment. The time in between each "cannot find server" can be many minutes or just seconds but each time it only lasts a fraction of a second until the song title flashes back.

I have never said anything about this because I was, and remain, too happy with 7.9 to let this little blip concern me. And I know that this message will lead many (as it did myself) to suspect it is just a network/router problem. My LMS computer and my transporter are both wired. I assign both their IP addresses on the router using IP reservation by mac id. The computer and transporter are both using DHCP. I used to use assigned IP addresses on both devices (not DHCP) but changed that awhile ago to try to track this down to no avail.

The way I get out of this problem is to select play on a specific song (next/prev song won't do it -- it remains off by one song) and LMS gets itself and the player back in sync with the file actually playing. Only rarely will music stop at the end of a song at which point I have to explicitely play the next song. I forget if pressing next works.

Unfortunately, I can't reproduce the problem manually. I just have to wait for it to happen. If someone can tell me what log settings to use to capture "cannot find server" messages on the devices, I can turn that on and wait for it to happen. I always suspected that if the message is generated on the device by the firmware then we won't see it in the LMS log. But, on the other hand, LMS web UI and tablet apps also get out of sync so there must be something happening on the LMS side. I can't say which side started it.

Also, no crossfade, no volume control (fixed at 100%), no replay gain.

Plugins active (I turned off all the others sometime ago to try to solve this):
Additional Browse Modes
BBC iPlayer (v1.4.9)
BBC iPlayer extras (v1.9.3)
Blanksaver (v2.1.6)
Digital inputs
Full text search
Live Music Archive
NPR Radio
Random Mix
RS232


Logitech Media Server Version: 7.9.0 - 1466761329 @ Fri Jun 24 09:51:11 CUT 2016
Hostname: XXXXXXXXXXXX
Server IP Address: 192.168.1.4
Server HTTP Port Number: 9000
Operating system: Windows 10 - EN - cp1252
Platform Architecture: 8664
Perl Version: 5.14.1 - MSWin32-x86-multi-thread
Audio::Scan: 0.95
Database Version: DBD::SQLite 1.34_01 (sqlite 3.7.7.1)
Total Players Recognized: 1

lightning888
2016-09-15, 20:24
What date does that build have on "Settings->Information"?

Logitech Media Server Version: 7.9.0 - 161.1096 @ Fri Aug 19 20:08:28 UTC 2016

lightning888
2016-09-15, 20:27
@lightning888 Could you please share a FLAC file and a procedure to reproduce this issue. Thx.

Verstuurd vanaf mijn XT1524 met Tapatalk

I simply go to "Random Mix -> Random Songs" and play songs randomly from a selected genre.

I seriously doubt it's the FLAC file problem, the "jammed track" can happen anywhere, any file, it just gets stuck without moving on to the next track.

I'm trying to roll back to a stable release and see if I can still reproduce this problem or not. Will keep you guys posted.

lightning888
2016-09-15, 20:29
The annoying thing is I have seen this in my system quite a while ago but I now have absolutely no idea how I fixed it. What are your crossfade settings?

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

It was set to "Enable smart crossfade". Now I try to disable it and see if I can reproduce the problem or not.

mherger
2016-09-15, 21:04
Ever checked your server.log for any traces regarding your problem?

--

Michael

lightning888
2016-09-15, 21:15
Ever checked your server.log for any traces regarding your problem?

--

Michael

Unfortunately nothing in the server.log related to the jammed track.

lightning888
2016-09-16, 01:55
Downgraded to Logitech Media Server Version: 7.7.6 - 1452060463 @ Thu Jan 21 02:17:04 UTC 2016 (the stable version found in Synology website)

Has been playing all sorts of random music through my 2 squeezeboxes, so far error has not been reproduced, no playing beyond tracks. Something must have been broken along the way of the new builds.

Let me know how I can help (like testing which beta build that gives error), I'm more than happy to contribute to this wonderful community!

lightning888
2016-09-16, 21:16
Downgraded to Logitech Media Server Version: 7.7.6 - 1452060463 @ Thu Jan 21 02:17:04 UTC 2016 (the stable version found in Synology website)

Has been playing all sorts of random music through my 2 squeezeboxes, so far error has not been reproduced, no playing beyond tracks. Something must have been broken along the way of the new builds.

Let me know how I can help (like testing which beta build that gives error), I'm more than happy to contribute to this wonderful community!

I spoke too early. Ran into one incidence of playing beyond track today. However in the past the problem happened more frequently. Now I'm really puzzled. May have to roll back to much older versions!

pinkdot
2016-09-17, 00:41
May have to roll back to much older versions!
Depending on the DSM version the rollback options may be limited. I would suggest to try to find out what is causing this issue.

A good starting point would be to install squeezelite on a pc and see if the same problem ocures.

DJanGo
2016-09-17, 00:45
I seriously doubt your suggestions work, as it was a FLAC file, even if I convert to a WAV file it won't make a difference. It'll play and advance to the next track, coz when I rewind the same track, it'll advance to the next track.

If you convert to wav (my suggestion) lms would convert it to flac - but to a flac thats converted from lms that matches your players capabilitys.

Just try it - its faster than rollback to Vx, rollback to vx-1, vx-2 and so on.

Its a Problem on your side with your files (other than that we would see more issues of that flavour)

pippin
2016-09-17, 01:41
No need to do that, I think you can force the server to do FLAC-FLAC transcoding, there's a thread on it somewhere.
I'm still not convinced that's it. I've had issues with FLAC encoding in the past and it caused skipping and stuttering, nothing like the OP observes.

DJanGo
2016-09-17, 04:02
@Pippin i didnt have that issue - i am just guessing.

There are lot of "if then else" constructs like direct stream / proxy stream and so on.

I can remember that poor tracks with false bitrate settings/tags are caused these issues - cant remember any other that causes this.

A try costs max. 10 minutes? Is that to expensive to sort obvious things out?

You wrote no need to do that are you that much convinced ???????

mherger
2016-09-17, 04:53
> I spoke too early. Ran into one incidence of playing beyond track today.
> However in the past the problem happened more frequently. Now I'm really
> puzzled. May have to roll back to much older versions!

Would this happen with any flac file or just some of them? Is it
reproducible with certain files? If so, please feel free to share some
of them with me:

https://www.dropbox.com/request/T3RctyzGgNg0oFDubq6a



--

Michael

lightning888
2016-09-17, 07:27
> I spoke too early. Ran into one incidence of playing beyond track today.
> However in the past the problem happened more frequently. Now I'm really
> puzzled. May have to roll back to much older versions!

Would this happen with any flac file or just some of them? Is it
reproducible with certain files? If so, please feel free to share some
of them with me:

https://www.dropbox.com/request/T3RctyzGgNg0oFDubq6a



--

Michael

It's happening to random FLAC files. The problematic ones I rewind and play again, no jammed track.

And I saved a playlist of those FLAC files that were previously jammed, about 15 songs. I replayed the playlist over and over again without any problem. That's why it should be an LMS problem, somebody may have broke the code.

DJanGo
2016-09-17, 07:33
It's happening to random FLAC files. The problematic ones I rewind and play again, no jammed track.

And I saved a playlist of those FLAC files that were previously jammed, about 15 songs. I replayed the playlist over and over again without any problem. That's why it should be an LMS problem, somebody may have broke the code.

Stop lms
delete the file cache.db (take a look @ the settings page where that file is located) and start the server again.
Is the Playlist with the jammed tracks good or jammed again?

Are you using direct stream or proxied stream?

What else is running on your "LMS" System??
Are you sure the jam is not caused by memory/disk usage from some other tool?

mherger
2016-09-17, 08:12
> Are you using direct stream or proxied stream?

Streaming local tracks always is direct from LMS. That setting is
totally unrelated.

--

Michael

pippin
2016-09-19, 14:13
BTW, no idea whether it's related but right now I'm seeing the exact same thing right now but while playing Spotify (3rd party plugin).
Absolutely nothing in the logs

pippin
2016-09-19, 14:14
Oh. LMS 7.8.1

dbm204
2016-09-19, 14:33
just happened to me again playing a local flac album on a transporter (player playing alone - no player sync).
nothing in the server log (nothing in it since 16/9).

Logitech Media Server Version: 7.9.0 - 1474277583 @ Mon Sep 19 09:43:45 CUT 2016
Hostname: XXXXXXXXXXX
Server IP Address: 192.168.1.4
Server HTTP Port Number: 9000
Operating system: Windows 10 - EN - cp1252
Platform Architecture: 8664
Perl Version: 5.14.1 - MSWin32-x86-multi-thread
Audio::Scan: 0.95
Database Version: DBD::SQLite 1.34_01 (sqlite 3.7.7.1)
Total Players Recognized: 2

lightning888
2016-09-19, 20:18
I'm starting to suspect it maybe hardware issue. I have two separate sets configured in different places (one at home and the other at office). The music are all replicated between the two different places.

Set 1 (Home configuration)
two squeezebox receivers (firmware 77), perhaps very old hardware of almost 10 years old?
These two are playing non-stop random music, but always prone to play beyond tracks

Set 2 (Office configuration)
one squeezebox touch
This one so far never had any stoppage on playing beyond tracks

Anyone encountered similar situation? Would be easier to buy hardware than to try to solve the bugs! :)

Mnyb
2016-09-19, 23:24
These are very unlikely to be player bugs imho .

dbm204
2016-09-20, 00:15
but the problem in lms may be ipv3 architecture related -- is that the correct name for the original "slim" devices? sb3, receiver, boom, transporter.

lightning888 said it happens on receivers but not on touch.

I see it on a transporter.

pippin, what device were you using?

Just a wild guess: something around sync logic in lms may have been fixed and caused this to happen in ipv3 devices only.

lightning888
2016-09-20, 23:49
I'm starting to suspect it maybe hardware issue. I have two separate sets configured in different places (one at home and the other at office). The music are all replicated between the two different places.

Set 1 (Home configuration)
two squeezebox receivers (firmware 77), perhaps very old hardware of almost 10 years old?
These two are playing non-stop random music, but always prone to play beyond tracks

Set 2 (Office configuration)
one squeezebox touch
This one so far never had any stoppage on playing beyond tracks

Anyone encountered similar situation? Would be easier to buy hardware than to try to solve the bugs! :)



I may speak too early too soon. Yesterday I left the Squeezebox Touch overnight and it caught one track that's playing beyond tracks! It looked like I'll have to rule out the hardware aspect as well! What else could it be? No one else is able to reproduce this bug? Strange ...

Mnyb
2016-09-21, 00:09
it can actually be the comunication ? Or server getting choked an busy in some way ?

The server is updating the displays , its especially true in the old players where the server basically runs the whole UI (except the fw setup menu) .
Touch is more autonomous and a larger part of the UI exist without a server...

pippin
2016-09-21, 02:21
I think it's either the player doing something wrong when it's supposed to go to the next track, but given that these were very different players (my problem was with iPeng as a player which makes it three different implementations now) I doubt it's the software in the player itself, maybe the protocol.

Or it's the server. No idea where, Michael would have better insight here.

dbm204
2016-09-21, 04:52
Agreed. This shows the problem is all over, not player/architecture dependent. Communication/protocol could still be the culprit. That is why I mentioned in my earlier post some strange "cannot connect to server" messages that flash for less than a second, which seem like a false-negative since the music never stops and LMS web-UI has the problem, not the player itself.

It is odd that LMS seems schizophrenic. LMS falls behind, not the track playing on the player. LMS knows to send track 3 and does so successfully, the player continues playing track 3, but LMS web-UI displays track 2 as current track. LMS knows enough to send the next track and continues with track 4 too. Sometimes I think it just stays stuck on track 2; usually it just stays 1 track behind. I don't see dropouts or buffering issues. Rarely, it will stop at the end of a track and I need to play a track explicitly to get the UI and player back in sync.

I only mentioned player sync before because I know that sync has the most complicated logic and this requires LMS to know what is on all players and exactly where the players are at (since it can force corrections to bring players back in sync).

For me, I think a work-around may be to avoid playing an album while one is currently playing. I will try to pause play, clear the playlist, add the next album, then start play. Perhaps that will avoid the problem.

I have seen the problem mostly when I alter the playlist while it is playing. When I lined up 4 hours of short (pop music) tracks and let it go, it played without a problem.

pippin
2016-09-21, 06:29
Oh, BTW: you did try to restart your router? I do have a router (Fritz!Box) that has problems keeping a stable streaming connection

Mnyb
2016-09-21, 06:47
Music does not need to stop for small com glitches the internal buffer is >=30 seconds of music , depending on codec . For low bitrate MP3 even more .

In fact it usually don't stop , it just keeps on playing until the buffer is empty even if the UI crashes ?

dbm204
2016-09-21, 07:36
For me, it will continue playing through the following tracks without a problem. It is only when I happen to check the web UI or an app on my tablet that I notice it has lost its place. Usually I just let it stay behind and keep listening. I have restarted my router a number of times and tried changing the configuration to try to establish a pattern, all to no avail. I will restart everything again and try today.

Although this is mildly annoying, I still prefer all the improvements made in 7.9 to any inconvenience in the display. 7.9 converted me to a web UI user, even on my tablet. I wouldn't have mentioned it except that I saw others experiencing it too.

Thanks

pippin
2016-09-21, 12:40
Music does not need to stop for small com glitches the internal buffer is >=30 seconds of music , depending on codec . For low bitrate MP3 even more .

In fact it usually don't stop , it just keeps on playing until the buffer is empty even if the UI crashes ?

Has nothing to do with "small com glitches". The problem in this case (and I have seen that with my router many times but I can rule it out for the latest incident since I don't use it for streaming anymore due to this) is stalling streams.
"Stalling" means the stream is broken but both sides don't notice it.
That's less of a problem for the actual music stream because you get a new one every few minutes.
But the slimproto control connection (and also the cometd connection used by Apps and SqueezePlay) is also a stream and if that one stalls the server will never know that the player has finished playing a track so will not send a new one. You get exactly the behavior we are seeing here.

Now... this doesn't seem to be the _only_ possible cause for this but it's certainly one and ruling it out might help....

Mnyb
2016-09-21, 21:35
Has nothing to do with "small com glitches". The problem in this case (and I have seen that with my router many times but I can rule it out for the latest incident since I don't use it for streaming anymore due to this) is stalling streams.
"Stalling" means the stream is broken but both sides don't notice it.
That's less of a problem for the actual music stream because you get a new one every few minutes.
But the slimproto control connection (and also the cometd connection used by Apps and SqueezePlay) is also a stream and if that one stalls the server will never know that the player has finished playing a track so will not send a new one. You get exactly the behavior we are seeing here.

Now... this doesn't seem to be the _only_ possible cause for this but it's certainly one and ruling it out might help....

That was better explanation, never had exactly this error myself only your typical flaky wifi that goes down for some seconds .

Some process of elimination to exclude some of the involved network devices ? To fault trace .

For example in my network the internet router is actually not used as a switch it's conected to one of my switches and the wired server and all of wired players use static IP so they don't need my router to function so it can go down or be rebooted without a hitch . Player and server talks trough the switches. The switches are these blue sheet metal case semi pro netgear types , no shiny consumer variant with fancy plastic case and power saving and Eco features ....

pippin
2016-09-22, 02:52
In my case I know which device it is, it's the router :)
It's having these issues with almost all of my devices (excluding, interestingly, the Squeezeboxes, but the server might be affected, too), I've seen similar issues with other people and other devices (including Squeezeboxes). It might be a chipset compatibility issue or something.

Anyway, short term it often helps to restart the router. At least in my case it comes back (longer term), though so I use another router.

It's definitely not the only issue at hand, though. I think there might also be a software issue on the server side or a protocol issue or something but obviously sometimes the internal position within the server gets out of sync with reality causing trouble. For whatever reason.

philippe_44
2016-09-22, 18:04
If the OP could take a wireshark log, wouldn't you see if slimproto gets stuck somewhere?

lightning888
2016-09-27, 01:16
Now after testing for almost 2 weeks, I still cannot nail it down as a network or a router error (despite shutting down all my 4 gigabit routers).

However, I noticed the bug was more pronounced when I used iPeng to play. Once I forward a track and let the music plays in the background, it'll only take a few songs (or perhaps a few dozen songs) before the "playing beyond track" starts all over again, and forwarding the jammed track via iPeng will also produce the bug much more matured than if I use LMS.

Sigh ...