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verypsb
2016-08-03, 23:42
Just a question, why are indefinite articles not listed on 'Articles to Ignore When Sorting'? Or is it only common in the Netherlands to exclude the indefinite article when sorting?

A Un Une Uno Una Unos Unas

mherger
2016-08-03, 23:53
> Just a question, why are indefinite articles not listed on 'Articles to
> Ignore When Sorting'?
>
> A Un Une Unos Unas

Because nobody felt the need for it?

--

Michael

verypsb
2016-08-04, 00:01
Well, that's probably a reason for it... ;-)

But I don't understand a need for definite articles and a lack of need for indefinite articles...

Best regards,
Dennis.

DJanGo
2016-08-04, 00:02
Just a question, why are indefinite articles not listed on 'Articles to Ignore When Sorting'? Or is it only common in the Netherlands to exclude the indefinite article too when sorting?

A Un Une Unos Unas


A Whiter Shade of Pale would be sorted under W?

Un Po Artista un po no would be sorted under P??

Une Femme N'est Pas Un Homme (Aphex Twin Mix) under F???

verypsb
2016-08-04, 00:05
Your examples would be perfectly sensible using dutch sorting rules...

But from your reaction it isn't using german sorting rules...

Best regards,
Dennis.

fyi, dutch sorting rules exclude all articles from surnames too...

karlek
2016-08-04, 09:52
You can add those Articels you miss by yourself.

d6jg
2016-08-04, 13:32
Indefinite article is not relevant in English. The only example I can think of that might appear is "an" as in an hotel but I have never seen it in a artists name, an (!) album name or a track but please prove me wrong.
Tracks aren't ever sorted alphabetically to my knowledge anyway so the "A Whiter Shade of Pale" example isn't relevant either. The album sort is by track number - or should be!

d6jg
2016-08-04, 14:10
I found an (!) album beginning with an indefinite article.
An Old Raincoat Won't Let You Down - Rod Stewart. It's listed under A under albums which is correct IMHO so I don't think excluding An would be correct in English. Not saying those rules apply in other languages.

kidstypike
2016-08-04, 15:13
I'm just in the proccess of setting my sister up with a RPi/max2play/LMS, her albums include: (her tags are crap!)

A Bad Wind Blows in My Heart by Bill Ryder-Jones
A Beginners Guide by Jim Moray
A Better Man by Brian Kennedy
A Book Like This by Angus & Julia Stone
A Century Ends by David Gray
A Christmas Gift for You from Phil Spector by Various Artists
A Cork Tale Wake [Bonus CD] Disc 1 by Chris Bathgate, No Artist
A Day Without Rain [Australia Bonus Track] by Enya
A Design For Life by Manic Street Preachers
A Few Small Repairs by Shawn Colvin, No Artist
A Fine Old English Gentleman: The Best of the Topic Years by The Oldham Tinkers
A Good Day by Priscilla Ahn
A Hard Day's Night [UK] by The Beatles
A Hot Piece of Grass by Hayseed Dixie
A Larum by Johnny Flynn
A Lily for the Spectre by Stephanie Dosen
A Live One by Boo Hewerdine
A Mad and Faithful Telling by DeVotchKa
A New Day at Midnight by David Gray
A Piano: The Collection Disc 1 by Tori Amos
A Piano: The Collection Disc 2 by Tori Amos
A Piano: The Collection Disc 3 by Tori Amos
A Piano: The Collection Disc 4 by Tori Amos
A Piano: The Collection Disc 5 by Tori Amos
A Piece of What You Need by Teddy Thompson
A River Ain't Too Much to Love by Smog
A Rush of Blood to the Head by Coldplay
A Secret History: Best of the Divine Comedy by The Divine Comedy
A Temporary Dive [Bonus Tracks] by Various Artists
A Thousand Shark's Teeth by My Brightest Diamond
A Tribute to Joni Mitchell by Various Artists
a tribute to the clash by Various Artists
A Virtual Landslide by Pete Molinari
A Woman's Heart 2 by Various Artists
A Woman's Heart: A Decade On by Various Artists
A Woman's Heart: Trilogy Disc 3 by Various Artists

DJanGo
2016-08-04, 16:20
Tracks aren't ever sorted alphabetically to my knowledge anyway so the "A Whiter Shade of Pale" example isn't relevant either. The album sort is by track number - or should be!

? (http://www.allmusic.com/album/a-whiter-shade-of-pale-a-m-mw0000236482)

d6jg
2016-08-05, 04:20
? (http://www.allmusic.com/album/a-whiter-shade-of-pale-a-m-mw0000236482)

In the UK (the home of Procol Harum) there is no such album. The debut was just called "Procol Harum". A Whiter Shade of Pale was a track on the album and was released as a single (I have a copy).

EDIT. A Whiter Shade of Pale was NOT on the UK debut album when released on Regal Zonophone in 1967. The album was re-packaged for US release by A&M with the track added and the album renamed.

I would still argue that in English such an album should appear under "A" so the question is irrelevant (in English). An Old Raincoat ... definitely under A.

It is however an interesting lingual question.

DJanGo
2016-08-05, 04:53
In the UK (the home of Procol Harum) there is no such album.
yapp


Thats another "no such Album Thing" outside UK.

https://radiotimesdvds.co.uk/16930-thickbox/the-best-of-dave-dee-dozy-beaky-mick-tich.jpg
Theese poor Recordstupid mofus are flipping the image to match non UK std with the Steering Wheels on the false side...

d6jg
2016-08-05, 05:12
yapp


Thats another "no such Album Thing" outside UK.

https://radiotimesdvds.co.uk/16930-thickbox/the-best-of-dave-dee-dozy-beaky-mick-tich.jpg
Theese poor Recordstupid mofus are flipping the image to match non UK std with the Steering Wheels on the false side...



Well spotted

verypsb
2016-08-06, 23:06
I'm just in the proccess of setting my sister up with a RPi/max2play/LMS, her albums include: (her tags are crap!)

...


I would indeed expect to find those tracks NOT at the "A" of "A", but at first letter of the word following the indefinite article "A" or "An".

Best regards,
Dennis.

verypsb
2016-08-06, 23:16
I've come to the conclusion that international sorting rules are different from dutch sorting rules, and that international sorting rules don't exclude indefinite articles while sorting alphabetically. I just added the dutch articles (definite and indefinite) to 'Articles to Ignore When Sorting'.

Best regards,
Dennis.

Julf
2016-08-10, 13:12
Yes, Dutch sorting rules are somewhat interesting. Don't get me started on "IJ"... :)

bakker_be
2016-08-12, 04:00
An even bigger problem arises when you have an international collection containing both French and Dutch music: e.g. "De" is to be omitted when sorting Dutch stuff, but not when sorting French stuff ... And there's more like that the other way round as well. Add in Spanish, German, Italian, Russian, ... and your set for some fun :p
I personally don't mess with what's defined by default for sorting, as it creates a lot of confusion otherwise ...

verypsb
2016-08-12, 04:14
Didn't think of that... :-)

Best regards,
Dennis.

Peter314
2016-08-14, 14:02
Indefinite article is not relevant in English. The only example I can think of that might appear is "an" as in an hotel but I have never seen it in a artists name, an (!) album name or a track but please prove me wrong.


A Band Called "O"

bakker_be
2016-08-16, 10:14
A Band Called "O"
Belgian band "A Brand"
Hiphoppers "A Tribe Called Quest"
Heavy rockers "A Perfect Circle"

d6jg
2016-08-16, 12:02
Belgian band "A Brand"
Hiphoppers "A Tribe Called Quest"
Heavy rockers "A Perfect Circle"

Those are all definite articles. It's indefinite ones that are rare in English in the context of artists & albums but we found one virtually straight away - An Old Raincoat ..... Rod Stewart.
"An" is indefinite.
You woul not exclude A or An in English and for my money all those examples should appear under A!

bakker_be
2016-08-17, 00:20
Those are all definite articles. It's indefinite ones that are rare in English in the context of artists & albums but we found one virtually straight away - An Old Raincoat ..... Rod Stewart.
"An" is indefinite.
You woul not exclude A or An in English and for my money all those examples should appear under A!

Sorry, I seem to recall from English classes in school (English not being my native language) that these are indefinite articles. To be sure I just looked it up: https://learnenglish.britishcouncil.org/en/english-grammar/determiners-and-quantifiers/indefinite-article-and